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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 16, 2020 19:57:09 GMT
But these are players on big wages, that just a blatant lie for me. And we need pace, we're a million miles behind when it comes to that. And we've got loads of experience already, they've been the biggest problem too. We do and Chester has been one of the worst signing this club has made in a decade, he's been awful and we've gone back for more. It's bloody odd. Mikel could be good. Fletcher is an injury prone old git. I get Mikel if Allen goes, if he stays then it's all a bit too much. No one will ever convince we should have signed Chester though now. We have 6 better centre halves at the club already. Your last sentence is just made up bollocks...... Chester has been diabolical. The others are all better than him and wouldn't need a tall bloke to be put at full back to accommodate them either.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 16, 2020 19:59:34 GMT
But these are players on big wages, that just a blatant lie for me. And we need pace, we're a million miles behind when it comes to that. And we've got loads of experience already, they've been the biggest problem too. We do and Chester has been one of the worst signing this club has made in a decade, he's been awful and we've gone back for more. It's bloody odd. Mikel could be good. Fletcher is an injury prone old git. I get Mikel if Allen goes, if he stays then it's all a bit too much. No one will ever convince we should have signed Chester though now. We have 6 better centre halves at the club already. Bosmans though, aren't they? So the package as a whole is manageable. Agree on pace - but I'm still expecting a new winger in - and hopefully he'll be rapid. I think with pace on that side with the option of Campbell, we'll be okay in that regard. I don't agree on Fletcher. I'd guess loads of teams in this league were in for him. And same with Mikel I'm not won over by Chester either and probably wouldn't have gone ahead with that one, but can just about see why he did. They're going to be on 30-40k a piece aren't they? Plus a signing fee? Half of 40k a week is a million quid so yeah I don't buy it at all. There was no excuse for Chester, he failed the audition miserably.
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Post by hcstokie on Aug 16, 2020 19:59:39 GMT
I don't think it's a terrible way to go in this league, at least in the short-term - especially when we're strapped for cash and can't afford any more transfer howlers. We do know 100% what we're getting in people like Chester, Mikel and Fletcher. We know thy can handle this league, will be no fuss off the pitch and are suited to MON's pretty physical, pragmatic style. Take your point for the long-term though. But these are players on big wages, that just a blatant lie for me. And we need pace, we're a million miles behind when it comes to that. And we've got loads of experience already, they've been the biggest problem too. We do and Chester has been one of the worst signing this club has made in a decade, he's been awful and we've gone back for more. It's bloody odd. Mikel could be good. Fletcher is an injury prone old git. I get Mikel if Allen goes, if he stays then it's all a bit too much. No one will ever convince we should have signed Chester though now. We have 6 better centre halves at the club already. It seems clear that our hands are tied in the transfer market unless we ship a few out. It seems to be freebies instead of fees but that’s the situation we’ve got ourselves into. I think the Mikel signing could be very astute and do more to shore up the defence than signing a brand new back line. For me, if we could get rid of the following it will have been a promising window: Butland Indi / Lindsay Wimmer Ince Etobo Ndiaye Gregory / Afobe / Vokes I don’t have a problem with signing experienced pros but if we can get rid of some of the above that could allow us to sign a new keeper and a pacey winger or two, even if these are on loan. If we get Mikel I’m optimistic we will have a decent base to build on.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 16, 2020 20:03:40 GMT
But these are players on big wages, that just a blatant lie for me. And we need pace, we're a million miles behind when it comes to that. And we've got loads of experience already, they've been the biggest problem too. We do and Chester has been one of the worst signing this club has made in a decade, he's been awful and we've gone back for more. It's bloody odd. Mikel could be good. Fletcher is an injury prone old git. I get Mikel if Allen goes, if he stays then it's all a bit too much. No one will ever convince we should have signed Chester though now. We have 6 better centre halves at the club already. It seems clear that our hands are tied in the transfer market unless we ship a few out. It seems to be freebies instead of fees but that’s the situation we’ve got ourselves into. I think the Mikel signing could be very astute and do more to shore up the defence than signing a brand new back line. For me, if we could get rid of the following it will have been a promising window: Butland Indi / Lindsay Wimmer Ince Etobo Ndiaye Gregory / Afobe / Vokes I don’t have a problem with signing experienced pros but if we can get rid of some of the above that could allow us to sign a new keeper and a pacey winger or two, even if these are on loan. If we get Mikel I’m optimistic we will have a decent base to build on. I'm warming to the Mikel one I must admit, especially with some rumours surrounding Allen But I don't think for one second that it's a cheap option. Mikel will be on 40k a week surely?
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 16, 2020 20:07:59 GMT
It seems clear that our hands are tied in the transfer market unless we ship a few out. It seems to be freebies instead of fees but that’s the situation we’ve got ourselves into. I think the Mikel signing could be very astute and do more to shore up the defence than signing a brand new back line. For me, if we could get rid of the following it will have been a promising window: Butland Indi / Lindsay Wimmer Ince Etobo Ndiaye Gregory / Afobe / Vokes I don’t have a problem with signing experienced pros but if we can get rid of some of the above that could allow us to sign a new keeper and a pacey winger or two, even if these are on loan. If we get Mikel I’m optimistic we will have a decent base to build on. I'm warming to the Mikel one I must admit, especially with some rumours surrounding Allen But I don't think for one second that it's a cheap option. Mikel will be on 40k a week surely? Fletcher was supposedly 18k-a-week, wasn't it? At least that's what the Scottish press were suggesting was the figure Celtic were competing against. Saw something on twitter earlier where one of the offers Mikel turned down was 1.2m dollars-a-year from a Russian team - so that worked out at about the same as Fletcher, I think? So would guess they're both on just under 20k-a-week? Big money for this league - but I'd guess most of our lot are on that (even the likes of Gregory!)
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Post by hcstokie on Aug 16, 2020 20:14:26 GMT
[/quote]I'm warming to the Mikel one I must admit, especially with some rumours surrounding Allen But I don't think for one second that it's a cheap option. Mikel will be on 40k a week surely? [/quote] He may well be but that means he’s cost £2m for a season. That seems a reasonable deal to me. We’re unlikely to get a decent player for less than that. I think I read recently that the average wage in this league is around £26k a week. If that’s the case, if we have £2m to spend and paid an average wage the transfer fee would be less than £1m which doesn’t buy much nowadays. I think we’re signing solid pros for this year and they may be supplemented by the odd purchase or loan. If we challenge for the plays offs that would be fantastic but I can’t help that these signings are with a view to stabilising this season whilst the big earners contracts run down. Once those players are gone we may be a bit more aggressive with regards to signings. Having said all that, I’m really positive about this season.........I also thought that at the beginning of last season!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 16, 2020 22:44:24 GMT
I'm warming to the Mikel one I must admit, especially with some rumours surrounding Allen But I don't think for one second that it's a cheap option. Mikel will be on 40k a week surely? Fletcher was supposedly 18k-a-week, wasn't it? At least that's what the Scottish press were suggesting was the figure Celtic were competing against. Saw something on twitter earlier where one of the offers Mikel turned down was 1.2m dollars-a-year from a Russian team - so that worked out at about the same as Fletcher, I think? So would guess they're both on just under 20k-a-week? Big money for this league - but I'd guess most of our lot are on that (even the likes of Gregory!) Gregory is meant to be on 36k a week.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2020 22:57:03 GMT
Fletcher was supposedly 18k-a-week, wasn't it? At least that's what the Scottish press were suggesting was the figure Celtic were competing against. Saw something on twitter earlier where one of the offers Mikel turned down was 1.2m dollars-a-year from a Russian team - so that worked out at about the same as Fletcher, I think? So would guess they're both on just under 20k-a-week? Big money for this league - but I'd guess most of our lot are on that (even the likes of Gregory!) Gregory is meant to be on 36k a week. Not a cat in hells chance is Gregory on £36k a week......
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 16, 2020 22:57:59 GMT
Gregory is meant to be on 36k a week. Not a cat in hells chance is Gregory on £36k a week...... I hope not but it’s what I’ve been told by a couple of people who I trust.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2020 23:15:24 GMT
Not a cat in hells chance is Gregory on £36k a week...... I hope not but it’s what I’ve been told by a couple of people who I trust. I've been told by someone within the club that we've not paid more than £30k a week for a player since relegation. The only players that earn more than that after the relegation clauses kicked in are Allen, Bauer and Shawcross, the first two because of new contracts and Ryan because he has a clause in his contract that means he always matches the top earner. The likes of Clucas, Powell, Ince and Afobe are all on the £27-30k mark, the likes of Gregory, Etebo and Woods are on around £23-25k. Our average wage bill in 2019 was around £26k per player based on a £38m drop according to recent The Sentinel article so those numbers would seem fairly accurate. Sentinel article
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 16, 2020 23:16:16 GMT
Because O'Neill only wants old legs in training that don't outrun him when he takes part in five-a-sides...? I could just about accept it, if we had approached younger players and they all had turned us down, but we're only a short way in the transfer window, so there has to many avenues the manager simply hasn't even explored. but, as these older players, who probably are costly in terms of wages, the question is if there is any space in the season budget left for those younger players. Moreover these signings have zero sell on value and may be hard to get rid off if they can't hold up to the physical demands of a 46 plus match season. He's been quite critical of the younger players and he knows far more about them than we do. Edwards has clearly been a waste of space these last few months but MON has brought Campbell on leaps. It's a long long season and you need a decent group of about 20 players no matter what their age. We're not making the mistake of signing these players on long term deals so no problem with that. Were a dozen times last season we needed a wise old head on the pitch, particularly away from home when we'd got ourselves in front then fallen apart. Willian is 32 and just signed a 3 year deal at Arsenal. Which is also completely barmy
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 16, 2020 23:24:06 GMT
I do understand the need to find the right blend, and on a seasonal level I don’t have a problem with signing experienced players.
What concerns me more is that inevitably of time means any successful core will need replacing within 2 years absolute tops. Fletcher for instance could be very good for us this year but his injury record and age mean the his race is almost run Whereas someone like Kieffer Moore plays a similar role, has several years on him and went to Cardiff for a modest outlay.
Kieffer Moore isn’t exactly young either just to emphasise the point, he’s just still considerably younger than Fletcher.
Also RE FFP, part of the reason we are so deep in it is because we never sell a player for a profit. Mainly because of our strategy of signing players in their supposed “prime”. Signing, developing and selling on youth gives you far more flexibility.
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Post by march4 on Aug 16, 2020 23:59:35 GMT
Why do football managers talk so much bollocks? I think we're going to have to learn to accept that MON seems to know what he likes and like what he knows....very experienced, been round the block several times and preferably British. Can't think who that reminds me of? Yes, it's pre-Cartwright and pre-dossier Pulis Just got to hope that people like Cousins can suggest the odd young gem to him as time goes on. Exotic for him seems to be someone like JOM who's played about 300 games in England To be fair, it served TP well, even though football is moving on apace. But, for the time being, it seems 19-year-old wonderkids from Serie B need not apply and you can shove your analytics and your Moneyball up your arse! www.thesun.co.uk/archives/football/754822/plan-a-pulis-spends-6mths-working-on-masterplan-to-revolutionise-stoke-plan-b-club-sack-him-anyway/By the way, I've just googled that article about Tone's dossier and I was giggling throughout TP clearly asking in the dossier to be in charge of our academy.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2020 7:23:27 GMT
Bosmans though, aren't they? So the package as a whole is manageable. Agree on pace - but I'm still expecting a new winger in - and hopefully he'll be rapid. I think with pace on that side with the option of Campbell, we'll be okay in that regard. I don't agree on Fletcher. I'd guess loads of teams in this league were in for him. And same with Mikel I'm not won over by Chester either and probably wouldn't have gone ahead with that one, but can just about see why he did. They're going to be on 30-40k a piece aren't they? Plus a signing fee? Half of 40k a week is a million quid so yeah I don't buy it at all. There was no excuse for Chester, he failed the audition miserably. Mikel might be , trading on his fame. Very much doubt that any of the others would be on bigger money than Powell, who's (rumoured to be) on 20.
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Post by alanhudson1972 on Aug 17, 2020 9:02:37 GMT
Takes me right back to the Waddington era. (I woz there.) This would fit in perfectly with our Dad's Army team of old codgers being based in 'Waddington-on-Sea'and known as the'Waddington-on-Sea' battalion Staffordshire Home Guard ⛱🍦💂♂️👴
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Post by alanhudson1972 on Aug 17, 2020 9:02:52 GMT
Takes me right back to the Waddington era. (I woz there.) This would fit in perfectly with our Dad's Army team of old codgers being based in 'Waddington-on-Sea'and known as the'Waddington-on-Sea' battalion Staffordshire Home Guard ⛱🍦💂♂️👴
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Post by waddosnavy on Aug 18, 2020 10:14:28 GMT
Not only did we win promotion in '63 with Waddingtons Dads Army, but in '79 the ageing Mike Doyle and Howard Kendall made key contributions to promotion. Its getting the blend of experience, youth, motivation and team spirit right.
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Post by silverdollar on Aug 18, 2020 15:18:46 GMT
Fletcher Shawcross Gregory Chester Jimmy Vokes Little Joe Plus, turning 30 in the first few weeks of the season Batth Clucas And, if they sign Brunt JOM Surely, we have enough 'experienced, solid professionals' already in the group, we lack pace and dynacism across the pitch so WHY on earth are we still looking at old hat who are looking for one last pay day? It's not even a cheap option because, even though we don't have to pay a fee, we end up paying higher wages as we didn't pay a fee. Dont get me wrong, it's always good to have a few old heads who've done the rounds to lead the way, but What we really needed was a few mid-range players who could come in and strengthen and compliment the core we have (Fox at least is right in that group, I would look at players such as Paddy McNair (holding mid that we've been crying out for, can also cover at centre-half) from Boro, Alan Browne (goalscoring midfielder) and Daniel Johnson (tricky winger) from Preston, Cedric Kipre (athletic centre half) from Wigan, Jed Wallace (again, goalscoring midfielder who can play deeper or further forward) from Millwall and Leonardo da Silva Lopes from Hull (still a bit raw, but has the talent)- all relatively cheap, played at this level and offers us options and much needed cover across the pitch. How ever did we get promotion with Tony Waddington in 1963. All those old professionals!
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