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Post by thisisouryear on Aug 15, 2020 12:54:43 GMT
Fletcher Shawcross Gregory Chester Jimmy Vokes Little Joe Plus, turning 30 in the first few weeks of the season Batth Clucas And, if they sign Brunt JOM Surely, we have enough 'experienced, solid professionals' already in the group, we lack pace and dynacism across the pitch so WHY on earth are we still looking at old hat who are looking for one last pay day? It's not even a cheap option because, even though we don't have to pay a fee, we end up paying higher wages as we didn't pay a fee. Dont get me wrong, it's always good to have a few old heads who've done the rounds to lead the way, but What we really needed was a few mid-range players who could come in and strengthen and compliment the core we have (Fox at least is right in that group, I would look at players such as Paddy McNair (holding mid that we've been crying out for, can also cover at centre-half) from Boro, Alan Browne (goalscoring midfielder) and Daniel Johnson (tricky winger) from Preston, Cedric Kipre (athletic centre half) from Wigan, Jed Wallace (again, goalscoring midfielder who can play deeper or further forward) from Millwall and Leonardo da Silva Lopes from Hull (still a bit raw, but has the talent)- all relatively cheap, played at this level and offers us options and much needed cover across the pitch. Little Moe with the gimpy leg
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Aug 15, 2020 13:04:03 GMT
I could just about accept it, if we had approached younger players and they all had turned us down, but we're only a short way in the transfer window, so there has to many avenues the manager simply hasn't even explored. but, as these older players, who probably are costly in terms of wages, the question is if there is any space in the season budget left for those younger players. Moreover these signings have zero sell on value and may be hard to get rid off if they can't hold up to the physical demands of a 46 plus match season. You don't know if younger players have turned the club down, or who's in the pipeline. We can't afford to start another season badly, and Mikel looks like the sort of signing who'll be a calming presence in front of the main defence. I think O'Neill is planning for the short-term while planning for the longer-term - Mikel is only on a one year contract after all. The transfer window is closing much later in the season than recent seasons, which is another factor. Many players under contract elsewhere, and clubs, may hold out as long as they can for various reasons.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Aug 15, 2020 13:17:41 GMT
Fletcher Shawcross Gregory Chester Jimmy Vokes Little Joe Plus, turning 30 in the first few weeks of the season Batth Clucas And, if they sign Brunt JOM Surely, we have enough 'experienced, solid professionals' already in the group, we lack pace and dynacism across the pitch so WHY on earth are we still looking at old hat who are looking for one last pay day? It's not even a cheap option because, even though we don't have to pay a fee, we end up paying higher wages as we didn't pay a fee. Dont get me wrong, it's always good to have a few old heads who've done the rounds to lead the way, but What we really needed was a few mid-range players who could come in and strengthen and compliment the core we have (Fox at least is right in that group, I would look at players such as Paddy McNair (holding mid that we've been crying out for, can also cover at centre-half) from Boro, Alan Browne (goalscoring midfielder) and Daniel Johnson (tricky winger) from Preston, Cedric Kipre (athletic centre half) from Wigan, Jed Wallace (again, goalscoring midfielder who can play deeper or further forward) from Millwall and Leonardo da Silva Lopes from Hull (still a bit raw, but has the talent)- all relatively cheap, played at this level and offers us options and much needed cover across the pitch. Because O'Neill only wants old legs in training that don't outrun him when he takes part in five-a-sides...? I could just about accept it, if we had approached younger players and they all had turned us down, but we're only a short way in the transfer window, so there has to many avenues the manager simply hasn't even explored. but, as these older players, who probably are costly in terms of wages, the question is if there is any space in the season budget left for those younger players. Moreover these signings have zero sell on value and may be hard to get rid off if they can't hold up to the physical demands of a 46 plus match season. Our starting line up today are all under 30, oldest defender is 26 average age about 24 and that without Campbell and Verlinden starting We have a lot of young players, MON is putting together a good balance
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2020 13:57:58 GMT
So what you're suggesting is that we build a team around players whose youngest age is 32? Good luck with that as you watch your team sink into the footy grave... I said nothing of the sort. I said age over quality isn't the answer. Let's see what happens as to my knowledge the league hasn't kicked off yet Today he has definitely gone for youth, difficult to judge quality as Linfield are very poor.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2020 14:02:20 GMT
I could just about accept it, if we had approached younger players and they all had turned us down, but we're only a short way in the transfer window, so there has to many avenues the manager simply hasn't even explored. but, as these older players, who probably are costly in terms of wages, the question is if there is any space in the season budget left for those younger players. Moreover these signings have zero sell on value and may be hard to get rid off if they can't hold up to the physical demands of a 46 plus match season. You don't know if younger players have turned the club down, or who's in the pipeline. We can't afford to start another season badly, and Mikel looks like the sort of signing who'll be a calming presence in front of the main defence. I think O'Neill is planning for the short-term while planning for the longer-term - Mikel is only on a one year contract after all. The transfer window is closing much later in the season than recent seasons, which is another factor. Many players under contract elsewhere, and clubs, may hold out as long as they can for various reasons. I know O'Neill said he would only sign 3-4 players, so, it would seem his mind is set on experience only. As for Mikel, I think that's potentially a great signing, but we need to see if his heart is in it. Can't imagine he comes cheap though. You think "O'Neill is planning for the short-term while planning for the longer-term". You've lost me...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2020 14:03:37 GMT
Because O'Neill only wants old legs in training that don't outrun him when he takes part in five-a-sides...? I could just about accept it, if we had approached younger players and they all had turned us down, but we're only a short way in the transfer window, so there has to many avenues the manager simply hasn't even explored. but, as these older players, who probably are costly in terms of wages, the question is if there is any space in the season budget left for those younger players. Moreover these signings have zero sell on value and may be hard to get rid off if they can't hold up to the physical demands of a 46 plus match season. Our starting line up today are all under 30, oldest defender is 26 average age about 24 and that without Campbell and Verlinden starting We have a lot of young players, MON is putting together a good balance You really can't make any judgment on this game...
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 15, 2020 15:51:21 GMT
The thing is any team that manages to get us promoted will need improving in order for us to stay in the Premier League - and that will be true regardless of how old the players are. At the moment we can't afford or attract players to keep us in the Premier League - we can only afford and attract players who might get us promoted so long term planning is pretty pointless - our planning horizon at the moment is 1 or 2 seasons and our strategy beyond that will be determined by whether we get promoted in the next couple of years. If we don't get promoted then by definition we are are a bog standard Championship side so a youth based strategy might make more sense. At the moment O'Neill is looking to promotion in the next couple of seasons and given the miracle he pulled off last season he deserves a free hit. If he thinks he can do it through experience with a bit of youth rather than vice versa then I'm good.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Aug 15, 2020 18:19:24 GMT
You don't know if younger players have turned the club down, or who's in the pipeline. We can't afford to start another season badly, and Mikel looks like the sort of signing who'll be a calming presence in front of the main defence. I think O'Neill is planning for the short-term while planning for the longer-term - Mikel is only on a one year contract after all. The transfer window is closing much later in the season than recent seasons, which is another factor. Many players under contract elsewhere, and clubs, may hold out as long as they can for various reasons. I know O'Neill said he would only sign 3-4 players, so, it would seem his mind is set on experience only. As for Mikel, I think that's potentially a great signing, but we need to see if his heart is in it. Can't imagine he comes cheap though. You think "O'Neill is planning for the short-term while planning for the longer-term". You've lost me... I lose myself sometimes! Mikel is due to be signed on a one-year contract, so given all the uncertainty in the transfer market and the impact of FFP, hopefully that means O'Neill has his eye on possible targets for the 2021/20 season, or even the January window. Players that are younger that would make sense to sign on longer contracts. Or perhaps even moulding someone like Sorenson for later this season or next season. Mikel feels like a good short term signing while O'Neill prepares for the longer term.
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Post by march4 on Aug 15, 2020 18:27:03 GMT
This is a one season adventure. If MON thinks these are the players to get us promoted then so be it.
In 12 months time we start again irrespective of whether or not we go up.
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Post by superjonscape on Aug 15, 2020 18:41:34 GMT
We will wish we had this problem right now but say this squad gets promoted, we would need to buy half a new squad to contend with the energy & fitness the premier league demands. We would be at an instant disadvantage because we would be starting the season with a new team.
In my opinion it's best to get promoted with a young squad and add touches of Premiership quality & experience upon arrival.
Of course we will take promotion with this squad but it's mammoth task to stay there if we did go up
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Post by baystokie on Aug 15, 2020 18:53:00 GMT
We will wish we had this problem right now but say this squad gets promoted, we would need to buy half a new squad to contend with the energy & fitness the premier league demands. We would be at an instant disadvantage because we would be starting the season with a new team. In my opinion it's best to get promoted with a young squad and add touches of Premiership quality & experience upon arrival. Of course we will take promotion with this squad but it's mammoth task to stay there if we did go up If you get promoted with a young squad, it's a huge jump to the Prem and you may still have to buy a number of experienced players that you will need to STAY in the Prem. So it could be that whether you go up with a young or older squad, you could still need to buy improvements. Let's get promoted first, then worry about the squad that got us there.
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Post by superjonscape on Aug 15, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
We will wish we had this problem right now but say this squad gets promoted, we would need to buy half a new squad to contend with the energy & fitness the premier league demands. We would be at an instant disadvantage because we would be starting the season with a new team. In my opinion it's best to get promoted with a young squad and add touches of Premiership quality & experience upon arrival. Of course we will take promotion with this squad but it's mammoth task to stay there if we did go up If you get promoted with a young squad, it's a huge jump to the Prem and you may still have to buy a number of experienced players that you will need to STAY in the Prem. So it could be that whether you go up with a young or older squad, you could still need to buy improvements. Let's get promoted first, then worry about the squad that got us there. I can see what you are saying but I'd think it would be easier to attract & sign 31 & 32 year old experienced Premiership players coming out of their Premiership contracts than it would be to attract the young players with the right type of quality needed. For starters they will be demanding good money in transfer fees, will be under contract and are more likely to be in demand by established clubs. I'll take promotion now but think we wouldnt be in the best position to stay there if we were promoted
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 15, 2020 21:05:12 GMT
MON is shopping in the bargain section of damaged goods and short sell by dates a dangerous strategy, I really can't see these players taking us into the top half let alone challenging for promotion or play offs looks like he building a dads army to fight off relegation, we will be lacking any pace yet again
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Post by dcstokefan on Aug 15, 2020 21:14:13 GMT
MON is shopping in the bargain section of damaged goods and short sell by dates a dangerous strategy, I really can't see these players taking us into the top half let alone challenging for promotion or play offs looks like he building a dads army to fight off relegation, we will be lacking any pace yet again Not being funny mate, but what would you know?
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 15, 2020 21:31:19 GMT
MON is shopping in the bargain section of damaged goods and short sell by dates a dangerous strategy, I really can't see these players taking us into the top half let alone challenging for promotion or play offs looks like he building a dads army to fight off relegation, we will be lacking any pace yet again Not being funny mate, but what would you know? Ditto not being funny but how an American can ask what I know about football is funny
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Post by dcstokefan on Aug 15, 2020 21:50:42 GMT
Not being funny mate, but what would you know? Ditto not being funny but how an American can ask what I know about football is funny Speak to me like that in person and I'd slap you. Us American's know more about football than you think.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 16, 2020 9:05:14 GMT
Ditto not being funny but how an American can ask what I know about football is funny Speak to me like that in person and I'd slap you. Us American's know more about football than you think. You bitch
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 16, 2020 10:28:29 GMT
Ditto not being funny but how an American can ask what I know about football is funny Speak to me like that in person and I'd slap you. Us American's know more about football than you think. Yes you do. Especially all that stuff about Offence and Defence, Yardage and distance passing. Good Stuff!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2020 17:05:59 GMT
If it carries on at this rate , we will have as many over 30s as Barcelona
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 16, 2020 18:31:18 GMT
Messi's 33.
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Post by liathroid on Aug 16, 2020 18:36:52 GMT
Messi's 33. a lot of people will be upset if were linked with another old man
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 16, 2020 19:02:33 GMT
MON basically saying the only players of the required standard we can afford are golden oldies www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-john-obi-mikel-4430669"We’re restricted in the transfer market because of financial fair play. Young players who would come in and automatically affect our starting XI would cost quite a lot of money so we’re not in a position to buy those players at this minute in time. “We have to be mindful of that and find the best players available to us. I think we’ve done that with the three signings we’ve made to date.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 16, 2020 19:20:03 GMT
MON basically saying the only players of the required standard we can afford are golden oldies www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-john-obi-mikel-4430669"We’re restricted in the transfer market because of financial fair play. Young players who would come in and automatically affect our starting XI would cost quite a lot of money so we’re not in a position to buy those players at this minute in time. “We have to be mindful of that and find the best players available to us. I think we’ve done that with the three signings we’ve made to date. Why do football managers talk so much bollocks?
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 16, 2020 19:31:41 GMT
MON basically saying the only players of the required standard we can afford are golden oldies www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-john-obi-mikel-4430669"We’re restricted in the transfer market because of financial fair play. Young players who would come in and automatically affect our starting XI would cost quite a lot of money so we’re not in a position to buy those players at this minute in time. “We have to be mindful of that and find the best players available to us. I think we’ve done that with the three signings we’ve made to date. Why do football managers talk so much bollocks? I think we're going to have to learn to accept that MON seems to know what he likes and like what he knows....very experienced, been round the block several times and preferably British. Can't think who that reminds me of? Yes, it's pre-Cartwright and pre-dossier Pulis Just got to hope that people like Cousins can suggest the odd young gem to him as time goes on. Exotic for him seems to be someone like JOM who's played about 300 games in England To be fair, it served TP well, even though football is moving on apace. But, for the time being, it seems 19-year-old wonderkids from Serie B need not apply and you can shove your analytics and your Moneyball up your arse! www.thesun.co.uk/archives/football/754822/plan-a-pulis-spends-6mths-working-on-masterplan-to-revolutionise-stoke-plan-b-club-sack-him-anyway/By the way, I've just googled that article about Tone's dossier and I was giggling throughout
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 16, 2020 19:35:46 GMT
Why do football managers talk so much bollocks? I think we're going to have to learn to accept that MON seems to know what he likes and like what he knows....very experienced, been round the block several times and preferably British. Can't think who that reminds me of? Yes, it's pre-Cartwright and pre-dossier Pulis Just got to hope that people like Cousins can suggest the odd young gem to him as time goes on. Exotic for him seems to be someone like JOM who's played about 300 games in England To be fair, it served TP well, even though football is moving on apace. But, for the time being, it seems 19-year-old wonderkids from Serie B need not apply and you can shove your analytics and your Moneyball up your arse! www.thesun.co.uk/archives/football/754822/plan-a-pulis-spends-6mths-working-on-masterplan-to-revolutionise-stoke-plan-b-club-sack-him-anyway/By the way, I've just googled that article about Tone's dossier and I was giggling throughout Yeah I don't think anyone is expecting us to go out and spend millions and millions but heck a bit of balance would be nice and Fletcher and JOM aren't going to be cheap wage wise. It's just bullshit that most will probably lap up. It's why I think we need a technical director desperatley. This isn't sustainable.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 16, 2020 19:41:04 GMT
I think we're going to have to learn to accept that MON seems to know what he likes and like what he knows....very experienced, been round the block several times and preferably British. Can't think who that reminds me of? Yes, it's pre-Cartwright and pre-dossier Pulis Just got to hope that people like Cousins can suggest the odd young gem to him as time goes on. Exotic for him seems to be someone like JOM who's played about 300 games in England To be fair, it served TP well, even though football is moving on apace. But, for the time being, it seems 19-year-old wonderkids from Serie B need not apply and you can shove your analytics and your Moneyball up your arse! www.thesun.co.uk/archives/football/754822/plan-a-pulis-spends-6mths-working-on-masterplan-to-revolutionise-stoke-plan-b-club-sack-him-anyway/By the way, I've just googled that article about Tone's dossier and I was giggling throughout Yeah I don't think anyone is expecting us to go out and spend millions and millions but heck a bit of balance would be nice and Fletcher and JOM aren't going to be cheap wage wise. It's just bullshit that most will probably lap up. It's why I think we need a technical director desperatley. This isn't sustainable. I don't think it's a terrible way to go in this league, at least in the short-term - especially when we're strapped for cash and can't afford any more transfer howlers. We do know 100% what we're getting in people like Chester, Mikel and Fletcher. We know thy can handle this league, will be no fuss off the pitch and are suited to MON's pretty physical, pragmatic style. Take your point for the long-term though.
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Post by neddy on Aug 16, 2020 19:45:34 GMT
Maybe we just need to receive a fee from a sale and we may see a purchase? Clearly we have more to get rid of before we can spend?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 16, 2020 19:47:07 GMT
Yeah I don't think anyone is expecting us to go out and spend millions and millions but heck a bit of balance would be nice and Fletcher and JOM aren't going to be cheap wage wise. It's just bullshit that most will probably lap up. It's why I think we need a technical director desperatley. This isn't sustainable. I don't think it's a terrible way to go in this league, at least in the short-term - especially when we're strapped for cash and can't afford any more transfer howlers. We do know 100% what we're getting in people like Chester, Mikel and Fletcher. We know thy can handle this league, will be no fuss off the pitch and are suited to MON's pretty physical, pragmatic style. Take your point for the long-term though. But these are players on big wages, that just a blatant lie for me. And we need pace, we're a million miles behind when it comes to that. And we've got loads of experience already, they've been the biggest problem too. We do and Chester has been one of the worst signing this club has made in a decade, he's been awful and we've gone back for more. It's bloody odd. Mikel could be good. Fletcher is an injury prone old git. I get Mikel if Allen goes, if he stays then it's all a bit too much. No one will ever convince we should have signed Chester though now. We have 6 better centre halves at the club already.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2020 19:49:07 GMT
I don't think it's a terrible way to go in this league, at least in the short-term - especially when we're strapped for cash and can't afford any more transfer howlers. We do know 100% what we're getting in people like Chester, Mikel and Fletcher. We know thy can handle this league, will be no fuss off the pitch and are suited to MON's pretty physical, pragmatic style. Take your point for the long-term though. But these are players on big wages, that just a blatant lie for me. And we need pace, we're a million miles behind when it comes to that. And we've got loads of experience already, they've been the biggest problem too. We do and Chester has been one of the worst signing this club has made in a decade, he's been awful and we've gone back for more. It's bloody odd. Mikel could be good. Fletcher is an injury prone old git. I get Mikel if Allen goes, if he stays then it's all a bit too much. No one will ever convince we should have signed Chester though now. We have 6 better centre halves at the club already. Your last sentence is just made up bollocks......
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 16, 2020 19:56:08 GMT
I don't think it's a terrible way to go in this league, at least in the short-term - especially when we're strapped for cash and can't afford any more transfer howlers. We do know 100% what we're getting in people like Chester, Mikel and Fletcher. We know thy can handle this league, will be no fuss off the pitch and are suited to MON's pretty physical, pragmatic style. Take your point for the long-term though. But these are players on big wages, that just a blatant lie for me. And we need pace, we're a million miles behind when it comes to that. And we've got loads of experience already, they've been the biggest problem too. We do and Chester has been one of the worst signing this club has made in a decade, he's been awful and we've gone back for more. It's bloody odd. Mikel could be good. Fletcher is an injury prone old git. I get Mikel if Allen goes, if he stays then it's all a bit too much. No one will ever convince we should have signed Chester though now. We have 6 better centre halves at the club already. Bosmans though, aren't they? So the package as a whole is manageable. And, mentally, MON (like TP) views them as totally sure things Agree on pace - but I'm still expecting a new winger in - and hopefully he'll be rapid. I think with pace on that side with the option of Campbell, we'll be okay in that regard. I don't agree on Fletcher. I'd guess loads of teams in this league were in for him. And same with Mikel I'm not won over by Chester either and probably wouldn't have gone ahead with that one, but can just about see why he did.
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