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Post by potterpaul on Aug 11, 2020 11:17:03 GMT
Strachan was 32 when he joined Leeds, and had 5 years there, plus another 2 at Coventry in the top flight. McAllister left Leeds at 32, and went on to have another 8 years at the top, including 2 years at Liverpool arriving when he was 36, and walking away with 5 trophies. It all boils down to decent due dilligence when signing, (Plus a chunk of luck). If his body and mind are in decent order I'd seriously consider him. That's the type of decision that MON will get paid the big bucks for. There's a bloke in his 50s playing in the Japanese leagues still. Fuck it - that one example means everyone can still play up to 50. I don't understand all of this X was 35 so Y must be good... It's ridiculous how some will pour through history to find that once or twice in a lifetime example to prove a point. Often missing the whole point of your post.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 11, 2020 11:17:53 GMT
Strachan was 32 when he joined Leeds, and had 5 years there, plus another 2 at Coventry in the top flight. McAllister left Leeds at 32, and went on to have another 8 years at the top, including 2 years at Liverpool arriving when he was 36, and walking away with 5 trophies. It all boils down to decent due dilligence when signing, (Plus a chunk of luck). If his body and mind are in decent order I'd seriously consider him. That's the type of decision that MON will get paid the big bucks for. There's a bloke in his 50s playing in the Japanese leagues still. Fuck it - that one example means everyone can still play up to 50. I don't understand all of this X was 35 so Y must be good... I think the point is, it works both ways doesn't it? The same way as in the example that you have used, just because X was shit at 33, doesn't then mean Y is going to be shit at 33, does it? As has been said, it all (more than ever) boils down to due diligence when player's get to this age, it's what MON gets paid big bucks to do. If Mikel rucks up here and either his legs have gone or he displays a 'couldn't give a toss anymore' attitude, then that bad call will be on the manager. Let's hope he knows what he's doing.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 11, 2020 11:18:04 GMT
We love a motor that could blow its head gasket at anytime don't we, we must be missing fletch. You could say he has not played much football in his career as he has been a bench player for large parts of it but how much legs has he got left? He's made 450 appearances in his professional club career (plus 91 games for Nigeria) which is a decent number even if some of them have been sub appearances. Presumably his medical will be intended to show what he has left in his legs. Hopefully the MON regime has instituted more rigorous medicals than some of his predecessors!
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 11, 2020 11:48:30 GMT
Does anyone know how his time went at Middlesbrough? It'll be the best indicator we have I guess.
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Post by pottersrule on Aug 11, 2020 12:25:39 GMT
did they release him or did his contract simply run out & he chose to leave? I read several reports that stated Middlesbrough had released him after they chose not to offer him an extension to his contract. H He only joined them on a short term deal in January 2019 and he helped them to the play off finals where they lost to Villa.If Boro had got promoted Pulis would have stayed as would Mikel.As it was Pulis left and parachute payments stopped,they simply weren't in a position to offer him a contract.
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Post by werrington on Aug 11, 2020 12:50:20 GMT
I read several reports that stated Middlesbrough had released him after they chose not to offer him an extension to his contract. H He only joined them on a short term deal in January 2019 and he helped them to the play off finals where they lost to Villa.If Boro had got promoted Pulis would have stayed as would Mikel.As it was Pulis left and parachute payments stopped,they simply weren't in a position to offer him a contract. It’s best not to scrape the surface as the truth is under there
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Post by datguy on Aug 11, 2020 13:24:01 GMT
He only joined them on a short term deal in January 2019 and he helped them to the play off finals where they lost to Villa.If Boro had got promoted Pulis would have stayed as would Mikel.As it was Pulis left and parachute payments stopped,they simply weren't in a position to offer him a contract. It’s best not to scrape the surface as the truth is under there Boro didn’t get in the playoffs when Mikel was there I don’t think. Villa played Derby in the final.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Aug 11, 2020 13:31:57 GMT
It’s best not to scrape the surface as the truth is under there Boro didn’t get in the playoffs when Mikel was there I don’t think. Villa played Derby in the final.
Yep,
They lost in the play offs in Summer 2018 and Mikel joined in the January 2019
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Post by realstokebloke on Aug 11, 2020 13:34:38 GMT
I thought they didn't make the P.O.s that season (last?) and that was the writing on the wall for VT ?
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Post by shakermaker on Aug 11, 2020 14:21:59 GMT
Does anyone know how his time went at Middlesbrough? It'll be the best indicator we have I guess. Most of Mikel's games were played as a deeper lying midfielder rather than an out-and-out CDM, but he put in a good few tackles and interceptions. One of our family friends down the road is a Boro fan, I'll have to ask him next time I see him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 15:54:33 GMT
I thought they didn't make the P.O.s that season (last?) and that was the writing on the wall for VT ? They didn't. It was Villa, Leeds, Derby and WBA
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Post by harlequin on Aug 11, 2020 16:13:23 GMT
Why take the risk on an older player at all unless he's much better than the alternatives that don't have a significant chance of being crocked?
Even in recent history we've gambled on a declining player in hopes of a short-term fix and been caught out with Ward, Duffy, Williams and Fletcher. Who couldn't recapture their previous standard of play mentally, if not physically. Why not mitigate this issue by avoiding this type of player all together?
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 11, 2020 16:43:09 GMT
I have a theory about "Ageism". In the 1950's and 60's people "developed" a lot more slowly. It was generally recognised that individuals "came of age" at 21 and at that point were still developing, both in physical terms and in also in character. Age as such was not a big issue and there were many sportsmen in a wide range of fields, including football, cricket, golf, motor racing and athletics, who were still in action at a fairly advanced year, often well into their forties.
Nowadays things have changed dramatically and people are more or less expected to be the finished article by the time they reach 16-18, and are then thought to be on their way downhill by the time that they are 30. It is merely the perception of an era or a generation.
In the 1960's no-one around the Potteries was raising an eyebrow when Tony Waddington was filling his team with so called fading stars in their thirties, and these experienced "veterans" found a new lease of life at Stoke.
Perhaps some of our prospective targets maybe should be approached with caution and given extra attention in terms of their attitude and motivation, and in fitness tests, but we should look at the man, not the number. If player X feels that they can still cut it and have something to prove, let them demonstrate this on the pitch, and if they genuinely feel that they can contribute, give them an opportunity.
It may be a young mans game, but not to the exclusion of proven skill and class.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 11, 2020 19:42:18 GMT
Why take the risk on an older player at all unless he's much better than the alternatives that don't have a significant chance of being crocked? Even in recent history we've gambled on a declining player in hopes of a short-term fix and been caught out with Ward, Duffy, Williams and Fletcher. Who couldn't recapture their previous standard of play mentally, if not physically. Why not mitigate this issue by avoiding this type of player all together? We don't have a DM so it wouldn't be difficult
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Post by superjonscape on Aug 11, 2020 20:24:27 GMT
We love a motor that could blow its head gasket at anytime don't we, we must be missing fletch. You could say he has not played much football in his career as he has been a bench player for large parts of it but how much legs has he got left? He's made 450 appearances in his professional club career (plus 91 games for Nigeria) which is a decent number even if some of them have been sub appearances. Presumably his medical will be intended to show what he has left in his legs. Hopefully the MON regime has instituted more rigorous medicals than some of his predecessors! Certainly hope so, we don't want a plodder do we. If the guy can still run id take him, if we are signing another fletcher, I'd rather not
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Post by RAF on Aug 11, 2020 20:35:16 GMT
I read several reports that stated Middlesbrough had released him after they chose not to offer him an extension to his contract. H He only joined them on a short term deal in January 2019 and he helped them to the play off finals where they lost to Villa.If Boro had got promoted Pulis would have stayed as would Mikel.As it was Pulis left and parachute payments stopped,they simply weren't in a position to offer him a contract. That's just so full of holes I don't know where to begin. H
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Post by harlequin on Aug 11, 2020 20:55:39 GMT
Why take the risk on an older player at all unless he's much better than the alternatives that don't have a significant chance of being crocked? Even in recent history we've gambled on a declining player in hopes of a short-term fix and been caught out with Ward, Duffy, Williams and Fletcher. Who couldn't recapture their previous standard of play mentally, if not physically. Why not mitigate this issue by avoiding this type of player all together? We don't have a DM so it wouldn't be difficult I meant as opposed to signing someone younger, who doesn't carry the same risk of breaking down. I didn't get my point across in that post at all.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 11, 2020 21:22:26 GMT
I have a theory about "Ageism". In the 1950's and 60's people "developed" a lot more slowly. It was generally recognised that individuals "came of age" at 21 and at that point were still developing, both in physical terms and in also in character. Age as such was not a big issue and there were many sportsmen in a wide rage of fields, including football, cricket, golf, motor racing and athletics, who were still in action at a fairly advanced year, often well into their forties. Nowadays things have changed dramatically and people are more or less expected to be the finished article by the time they reach 16-18, and are then thought to be on their way downhill by the time that they are 30. It is merely the perception of an era. In the 1960's no-one around the Potteries was raising an eyebrow when Tony Waddington was filling his team with so called fading stars in their thirties, and these experienced "veterans" found a new lease of life at Stoke. Perhaps some of our prospective targets maybe should be approached with caution and given extra attention in terms of their attitude and motivation, and in fitness tests, but we should look at the man, not the number. If player X feels that they can still cut it and have something to prove, let them demonstrate this on the pitch, and if they genuinely feel that they can contribute, give them an opportunity. It may be a young mans game, but not to the exclusion of proven skill and class. We have all the experience and age in the world though. We need the exact opposite.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 11, 2020 23:53:34 GMT
He only joined them on a short term deal in January 2019 and he helped them to the play off finals where they lost to Villa.If Boro had got promoted Pulis would have stayed as would Mikel.As it was Pulis left and parachute payments stopped,they simply weren't in a position to offer him a contract. That's just so full of holes I don't know where to begin. H Why?
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 12, 2020 5:19:01 GMT
We're crying out for a holding midfielder. If Mikel can do the job for a season I wouldn't care if he was 56, killed cute bunnies for a hobby and supported Rangers. Steady on - there are limits.
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Post by drippinggoatsnob on Aug 12, 2020 6:58:53 GMT
Why take the risk on an older player at all unless he's much better than the alternatives that don't have a significant chance of being crocked? Even in recent history we've gambled on a declining player in hopes of a short-term fix and been caught out with Ward, Duffy, Williams and Fletcher. Who couldn't recapture their previous standard of play mentally, if not physically. Why not mitigate this issue by avoiding this type of player all together? Experience in a game, relegation and promotion, key moments, dressing room impact. Experience outside the game, press and community. Training mindset, ideas, set pieces Leadership qualities Contacts in the game, players and support staff Sponsorship affiliation Profile of the club in terms of international reach. Known to the manager etc.
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Post by chell_rosey on Aug 12, 2020 7:31:31 GMT
Why take the risk on an older player at all unless he's much better than the alternatives that don't have a significant chance of being crocked? Even in recent history we've gambled on a declining player in hopes of a short-term fix and been caught out with Ward, Duffy, Williams and Fletcher. Who couldn't recapture their previous standard of play mentally, if not physically. Why not mitigate this issue by avoiding this type of player all together? Experience in a game, relegation and promotion, key moments, dressing room impact. Experience outside the game, press and community. Training mindset, ideas, set pieces Leadership qualities Contacts in the game, players and support staff Sponsorship affiliation Profile of the club in terms of international reach. Known to the manager etc. But apart from...... what have Romans ever done for us?
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Post by RAF on Aug 12, 2020 8:46:18 GMT
That's just so full of holes I don't know where to begin. H Why? I'll start you off with one. Middlesbrough weren't even in the play off's never mind the finals in the 2018/2019 season. H
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Post by stokiesteve on Aug 12, 2020 9:40:02 GMT
He’ll come to Stoke for his last pay cheque.
Like many before him.
Does anyone really think he’ll come here with something to prove?
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Post by superjonscape on Aug 12, 2020 10:26:25 GMT
He’ll come to Stoke for his last pay cheque. Like many before him. Does anyone really think he’ll come here with something to prove? We need a boss in CDM, is he that type of player, we need a bit of muscle, energy and aggression in my opinion, again, is he that player? I'm on the fence on this potential signing because I'm not too familiar with him. We need to get the CDM signing absolutely right though because we are weak and small in CM, a dream to play against. I agree with you though regarding pay days and stuff to prove, we are one of, if not the oldest squad in the league aswell
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2020 10:54:47 GMT
I have a theory about "Ageism". In the 1950's and 60's people "developed" a lot more slowly. It was generally recognised that individuals "came of age" at 21 and at that point were still developing, both in physical terms and in also in character. Age as such was not a big issue and there were many sportsmen in a wide range of fields, including football, cricket, golf, motor racing and athletics, who were still in action at a fairly advanced year, often well into their forties. Nowadays things have changed dramatically and people are more or less expected to be the finished article by the time they reach 16-18, and are then thought to be on their way downhill by the time that they are 30. It is merely the perception of an era or a generation. In the 1960's no-one around the Potteries was raising an eyebrow when Tony Waddington was filling his team with so called fading stars in their thirties, and these experienced "veterans" found a new lease of life at Stoke. Perhaps some of our prospective targets maybe should be approached with caution and given extra attention in terms of their attitude and motivation, and in fitness tests, but we should look at the man, not the number. If player X feels that they can still cut it and have something to prove, let them demonstrate this on the pitch, and if they genuinely feel that they can contribute, give them an opportunity. It may be a young mans game, but not to the exclusion of proven skill and class. Nice theory, but I also think the game is simply more athletic than 40-50 years ago and therefore less forgiving to aging players. It wasn’t that long ago that it was deemed acceptable for top level players to have a fag at h/t.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Aug 12, 2020 11:11:38 GMT
Only in football does 33 sound like they're ready to draw their pension!!!
Let me tell ya.... I was still playing 5 a side at 50!!! 😏
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Post by harlequin on Aug 12, 2020 11:18:33 GMT
Why take the risk on an older player at all unless he's much better than the alternatives that don't have a significant chance of being crocked? Even in recent history we've gambled on a declining player in hopes of a short-term fix and been caught out with Ward, Duffy, Williams and Fletcher. Who couldn't recapture their previous standard of play mentally, if not physically. Why not mitigate this issue by avoiding this type of player all together? Experience in a game, relegation and promotion, key moments, dressing room impact. Experience outside the game, press and community. Training mindset, ideas, set pieces Leadership qualities Contacts in the game, players and support staff Sponsorship affiliation Profile of the club in terms of international reach. Known to the manager etc. Most of those aren't exclusive to older players nearing their mid 30s though. It's more what experienced players with status would bring, you don't need to be at the end of your career to have experience or status. Though to be fair, it is one of the only times we'd get a player with both. I don't think too highly of status in and of itself, I don't think squad places should be filled with representatives. As for experience, I don't think its worth the trade off when you can get experience from a player in their prime. Taking John obi Mikel specifically how many of those would we actually benefit from since he would likely be on short term contract?
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 12, 2020 11:22:45 GMT
Only in football does 33 sound like they're ready to draw their pension!!! Let me tell ya.... I was still playing 5 a side at 50!!! 😏 I know that people can always say that there are exceptions to any rule, but as an example of "old age" I have just thought of Cameroon International Roger Milla who was 42 (or allegedly even older) when he broke his own record as the oldest goalscorer in World Cup history by scoring against Russia in the 1994 FIFA World Cup.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 12, 2020 14:31:03 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/africa/53751747"Yes, there are interested clubs and England is a strong possibility and why not," Mikel told BBC Sport Africa. "We are currently in talks with clubs and there is absolutely no hurry. I can only wait to see what happens."
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