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Post by PotterLog on Jul 21, 2020 21:46:54 GMT
For what it's worth...
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Post by lordb on Jul 21, 2020 22:12:28 GMT
Buffalo Springfield?
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Post by Gods on Jul 21, 2020 22:12:52 GMT
I reckon MON is a smart guy but when he came in he knew nothing of the players and nothing of what it takes to win matches in the Championship.
I think the knowledge he has gained of both will be our biggest single differentiator next season.
For the first time in a long time I am really looking forward to the next chapter in our story!
Buffalo Springfield - For what it's worth
There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
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Post by datguy on Jul 21, 2020 22:39:24 GMT
"We've played without arguably one of our best players in Joe Allen"
You just had to, MO'N...
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Post by potterpaul on Jul 22, 2020 5:31:52 GMT
"We've played without arguably one of our best players in Joe Allen" You just had to, MO'N... This is why I believe 10th to 14th next season is just about manageable. There's not a chance in the world we will get the DM we need if he's looking at squeezing JA back into that midfield. |
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Post by orfyboothen on Jul 22, 2020 6:38:10 GMT
"We've played without arguably one of our best players in Joe Allen" You just had to, MO'N... This is why I believe 10th to 14th next season is just about manageable. There's not a chance in the world we will get the DM we need if he's looking at squeezing JA back into that midfield. Under MON and with JA playing pre lockdown..... weren't we demonstrating play off form? Mid table form is what we have since then. |
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Post by jeycov on Jul 22, 2020 6:53:48 GMT
Hi looks and sounds 5 years younger👍
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Post by danceswithclams on Jul 22, 2020 7:03:31 GMT
Hi looks and sounds 5 years younger👍 These jittery green screen pressers always make me think of Max Headroom. I hope they carry on doing them like this post-Covid but get rid of the sponsors board behind him and replace it with a swirling 80s-style geometric pattern. "C-C-catch fucking cross, Butland..." |
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Jul 22, 2020 8:25:43 GMT
Joe Allen as a DM isn't ideal though is it? I wish there was a way we could organise the team to be able to play a new DM, Joe Allen, Sam Clucas and Nick Powell with a striker and winger/wide man up front, but I'm buggered if I know how to make that work. Suggestions anyone?
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Post by datguy on Jul 22, 2020 8:32:44 GMT
Joe Allen as a DM isn't ideal though is it? I wish there was a way we could organise the team to be able to play a new DM, Joe Allen, Sam Clucas and Nick Powell with a striker and winger/wide man up front, but I'm buggered if I know how to make that work. Suggestions anyone? NJ’s esteemed diamond may fix this problem... |
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jul 22, 2020 8:34:17 GMT
I think finances may dictate we sell one of Allen or Clucas, partly their wages and partly they are our most saleable assets. (Along with Campbell). If not, MON is looking at the fixture plan and thinking he needs 3 players for the 2 advanced midfield slots and Allen, Clucas and Powell look good for this.
We are going to need 16 to 18 players to get through a tough season, if we can afford to keep Allen, who was instrumental in our best run of the season, so much the better
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Jul 22, 2020 8:40:36 GMT
He's not going to drop Allen, Clucas or Powell though surely? Powell at his best and Clucas, should be able to grab at least 10 goals each in a season, so having a spearhead striker who can get anywhere near 20 and a winger who can create and chip in could be enough, and yes, a diamond would work with new DM at the base and Powell at the tip playing a little more forward with said striker and whichever wide man we start with. It would seem to me the most effective use of our squad at the moment but can't see MON going for it.
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Post by potterpaul on Jul 22, 2020 10:07:43 GMT
This is why I believe 10th to 14th next season is just about manageable. There's not a chance in the world we will get the DM we need if he's looking at squeezing JA back into that midfield. Under MON and with JA playing pre lockdown..... weren't we demonstrating play off form? Mid table form is what we have since then. You can demonstrate any form you like, the sad fact is we were amoungst the relegation fodder all season, dead and buried for huge portion with Joe Allen in midfield. Season before that lower half champ side with Joe Allen in Midfield, before that an embarrassing relegation season....you see the trend? Right now, and for a few seasons now, he is the one player blocking the club from getting a proper Defensive Midfielder simply because he as to play there. Currently Joe and Clucas are similar types of players with Clucas being the better, but both need to play alongside a solid well disciplined DM. There is no doubting MON's words it will be an Allen Clucas midfield which will be unbalanced and ineffective for a third of matches (12-16 matches). I very much doubt that form will be playoff form. |
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Post by harryh157 on Jul 22, 2020 10:12:50 GMT
This is why I believe 10th to 14th next season is just about manageable. There's not a chance in the world we will get the DM we need if he's looking at squeezing JA back into that midfield. Under MON and with JA playing pre lockdown..... weren't we demonstrating play off form? Mid table form is what we have since then. This. I don't get the dislike of JA; IMO we are a much better side when he is in it |
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Jul 22, 2020 10:54:43 GMT
Joe Allen as a DM isn't ideal though is it? I wish there was a way we could organise the team to be able to play a new DM, Joe Allen, Sam Clucas and Nick Powell with a striker and winger/wide man up front, but I'm buggered if I know how to make that work. Suggestions anyone? NJ’s esteemed diamond may fix this problem... ‘It’s a wonderful formation nigel’ 😂 |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 22, 2020 11:49:31 GMT
"We've played without arguably one of our best players in Joe Allen" You just had to, MO'N...  |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 22, 2020 11:51:21 GMT
Joe Allen as a DM isn't ideal though is it? I wish there was a way we could organise the team to be able to play a new DM, Joe Allen, Sam Clucas and Nick Powell with a striker and winger/wide man up front, but I'm buggered if I know how to make that work. Suggestions anyone? Drop Allen, problem solved. |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 22, 2020 11:56:36 GMT
Under MON and with JA playing pre lockdown..... weren't we demonstrating play off form? Mid table form is what we have since then. This. I don't get the dislike of JA; IMO we are a much better side when he is in it Bottom of the champ with him in it, Cousins has shown he's not the be all and end all, we need an upgrade on Cousins and to cash in on Allen, unfortunatly that won't happen, no ones coming in for him so soon after his injury. |
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Post by orfyboothen on Jul 22, 2020 12:02:21 GMT
Under MON and with JA playing pre lockdown..... weren't we demonstrating play off form? Mid table form is what we have since then. You can demonstrate any form you like, the sad fact is we were amoungst the relegation fodder all season, dead and buried for huge portion with Joe Allen in midfield. Season before that lower half champ side with Joe Allen in Midfield, before that an embarrassing relegation season....you see the trend? Right now, and for a few seasons now, he is the one player blocking the club from getting a proper Defensive Midfielder simply because he as to play there. Currently Joe and Clucas are similar types of players with Clucas being the better, but both need to play alongside a solid well disciplined DM. There is no doubting MON's words it will be an Allen Clucas midfield which will be unbalanced and ineffective for a third of matches (12-16 matches). I very much doubt that form will be playoff form. Strange standpoint. We had play off form under MON with Allen a key figure from November to February. Pretty good evidence that. |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 22, 2020 12:10:27 GMT
You can demonstrate any form you like, the sad fact is we were amoungst the relegation fodder all season, dead and buried for huge portion with Joe Allen in midfield. Season before that lower half champ side with Joe Allen in Midfield, before that an embarrassing relegation season....you see the trend? Right now, and for a few seasons now, he is the one player blocking the club from getting a proper Defensive Midfielder simply because he as to play there. Currently Joe and Clucas are similar types of players with Clucas being the better, but both need to play alongside a solid well disciplined DM. There is no doubting MON's words it will be an Allen Clucas midfield which will be unbalanced and ineffective for a third of matches (12-16 matches). I very much doubt that form will be playoff form. Strange standpoint. We had play off form under MON with Allen a key figure from November to February. Pretty good evidence that. Butland was in that team too, would you keep him in? |
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 22, 2020 12:11:10 GMT
You can demonstrate any form you like, the sad fact is we were amoungst the relegation fodder all season, dead and buried for huge portion with Joe Allen in midfield. Season before that lower half champ side with Joe Allen in Midfield, before that an embarrassing relegation season....you see the trend? Right now, and for a few seasons now, he is the one player blocking the club from getting a proper Defensive Midfielder simply because he as to play there. Currently Joe and Clucas are similar types of players with Clucas being the better, but both need to play alongside a solid well disciplined DM. There is no doubting MON's words it will be an Allen Clucas midfield which will be unbalanced and ineffective for a third of matches (12-16 matches). I very much doubt that form will be playoff form. Strange standpoint. We had play off form under MON with Allen a key figure from November to February. Pretty good evidence that. Orfy you are spot on mate but you’re wasting your time with certain posters unfortunately.The good thing is we now have a manager that got the best out of him until is injury and long may it continue |
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 22, 2020 12:28:51 GMT
Allen will continue to be a divisive figure, but I think there are certain points that you can list that both camps can agree with: - Our PPG the whole season without Allen is higher than with him and will be even if we lose to Forest. - Allen played very well under MON, post new year and before his injury. This also coincided with the arrival of Nick Powell and others into the first team as permanent fixtures. - Allen was poor under Jones, now, it should be said all the players were but by his own admission he struggled as a senior player. - Joe Allen remains one of our last assets who another club would pick up the wages for at his age because of his reputation, and since New Year, performances. - When MON dropped his batshit crazy formations in the lockdown we actually started to play well. - We were on midtable form between MON taking over and the lockdown with Allen. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB2?saison_id=2019&min=15&max=37- We are on midtable form since the lockdown without Allen. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB2?saison_id=2019&min=38&max=46The conclusion I draw from this personally is that Allen has been decent since MON has come in, and particularly after New Year where he was very good. But he is by no means as indispensable as he has been made out to be. If the squeeze of FFP was on and a team came in for him, I'd accept the offer. If as it appears FFP is going to relaxed for some time it's probably worth keeping him around. |
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Post by harryh157 on Jul 22, 2020 12:38:01 GMT
This. I don't get the dislike of JA; IMO we are a much better side when he is in it Bottom of the champ with him in it, Cousins has shown he's not the be all and end all, we need an upgrade on Cousins and to cash in on Allen, unfortunatly that won't happen, no ones coming in for him so soon after his injury. Also in the team that finished 13th in the prem oh and when he was injured we were ..... 17th a bit like now (or did you stop counting when we changed manager?). By your argument you would get rid of every player who was with us prior to MON taking over. I really do wonder why some stoke fans have to portray everything about and in the club in the worst light. You don't like him. I do....its all about opinions but to suggest we were bottom of the league because he was in the team and imply the improvement followed his injury is both ludicrous and clearly untrue. |
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Post by harryh157 on Jul 22, 2020 12:45:16 GMT
Allen will continue to be a divisive figure, but I think there are certain points that you can list that both camps can agree with: - Our PPG the whole season without Allen is higher than with him and will be even if we lose to Forest. - Allen played very well under MON, post new year and before his injury. This also coincided with the arrival of Nick Powell and others into the first team as permanent fixtures. - Allen was poor under Jones, now, it should be said all the players were but by his own admission he struggled as a senior player. - Joe Allen remains one of our last assets who another club would pick up the wages for at his age because of his reputation, and since New Year, performances. - When MON dropped his batshit crazy formations in the lockdown we actually started to play well. - We were on midtable form between MON taking over and the lockdown with Allen. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB2?saison_id=2019&min=15&max=37- We are on midtable form since the lockdown without Allen. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB2?saison_id=2019&min=38&max=46The conclusion I draw from this personally is that Allen has been decent since MON has come in, and particularly after New Year where he was very good. But he is by no means as indispensable as he has been made out to be. If the squeeze of FFP was on and a team came in for him, I'd accept the offer. If as it appears FFP is going to relaxed for some time it's probably worth keeping him around. PPG since MON came in? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 12:48:35 GMT
Allen will continue to be a divisive figure, but I think there are certain points that you can list that both camps can agree with: - Our PPG the whole season without Allen is higher than with him and will be even if we lose to Forest. - Allen played very well under MON, post new year and before his injury. This also coincided with the arrival of Nick Powell and others into the first team as permanent fixtures. - Allen was poor under Jones, now, it should be said all the players were but by his own admission he struggled as a senior player. - Joe Allen remains one of our last assets who another club would pick up the wages for at his age because of his reputation, and since New Year, performances. - When MON dropped his batshit crazy formations in the lockdown we actually started to play well. - We were on midtable form between MON taking over and the lockdown with Allen. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB2?saison_id=2019&min=15&max=37- We are on midtable form since the lockdown without Allen. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB2?saison_id=2019&min=38&max=46The conclusion I draw from this personally is that Allen has been decent since MON has come in, and particularly after New Year where he was very good. But he is by no means as indispensable as he has been made out to be. If the squeeze of FFP was on and a team came in for him, I'd accept the offer. If as it appears FFP is going to relaxed for some time it's probably worth keeping him around. PPG since MON came in? 45 points from 30 games. 1.5 PPG or 69 points over a full season...... |
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Post by harryh157 on Jul 22, 2020 12:52:19 GMT
45 points from 30 games. 1.5 PPG or 69 points over a full season...... Yes I was wondering what his ppg with JA as opposed to without JA was like as comparing over the season includes the 0 points games more attributable to a bat shit crazy manager than due to playing JA. Not that it matters to blame all results on a single player is ridiculous IMO |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 13:01:20 GMT
45 points from 30 games. 1.5 PPG or 69 points over a full season...... Yes I was wondering what his ppg with JA as opposed to without JA was like as comparing over the season includes the 0 points games more attributable to a bat shit crazy manager than due to playing JA. Not that it matters to blame all results on a single player is ridiculous IMO Ah right sorry.... Pre MON With Allen W2 D1 L10 PPG 0.7 Pre MON Without Allen W0 D1 L1 PPG 0.5 Under MON With Allen: W10 D4 L8 PPG 1.54 Under MON Without Allen W3 D2 L3 PPG 1.37 |
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Post by harryh157 on Jul 22, 2020 13:04:12 GMT
Yes I was wondering what his ppg with JA as opposed to without JA was like as comparing over the season includes the 0 points games more attributable to a bat shit crazy manager than due to playing JA. Not that it matters to blame all results on a single player is ridiculous IMO Ah right sorry.... Pre MON With Allen W2 D1 L10 PPG 0.7 Pre MON Without Allen W0 D1 L1 PPG 0.5 Under MON With Allen: W10 D4 L8 PPG 1.54 Under MON Without Allen W3 D2 L3 PPG 1.37 Conclusive!! JA is the messiah 🤣 |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 22, 2020 13:06:23 GMT
Bottom of the champ with him in it, Cousins has shown he's not the be all and end all, we need an upgrade on Cousins and to cash in on Allen, unfortunatly that won't happen, no ones coming in for him so soon after his injury. Also in the team that finished 13th in the prem oh and when he was injured we were ..... 17th a bit like now (or did you stop counting when we changed manager?). By your argument you would get rid of every player who was with us prior to MON taking over. I really do wonder why some stoke fans have to portray everything about and in the club in the worst light. You don't like him. I do....its all about opinions but to suggest we were bottom of the league because he was in the team and imply the improvement followed his injury is both ludicrous and clearly untrue. Nah just the ones that are easily replaced by Cousins. He's one of the top earners and offers very little and easily replaceable, I wasn't saying our up turn is only down to him being out of the team because clearly that isn't the case I'm saying we need a different type of player to him to progress rather than an average all rounder such as Allen we need a proper DM proven by Cousins playing in the side and not missing Allen one bit, that coupled with his pay and it seems stupid that he's still here. Whether you think he's good or not doesn't matter he doesn't fit and isn't what we need ever since he signed. Either way this is a pointless discussion as MON clearly rates him and is another manger that can't see that he's not what we need. |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 22, 2020 13:08:12 GMT
Ah right sorry.... Pre MON With Allen W2 D1 L10 PPG 0.7 Pre MON Without Allen W0 D1 L1 PPG 0.5 Under MON With Allen: W10 D4 L8 PPG 1.54 Under MON Without Allen W3 D2 L3 PPG 1.37 Conclusive!! JA is the messiah 🤣 Not really, 22 vs 8 it doesn't help either way tbf. |
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