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Post by liathroid on Jul 9, 2020 18:44:19 GMT
Making the worst tactical sub ever? was watching the match Sky said he was injuryed at half time ,he s better than both Batth and Chester
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 19:06:27 GMT
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 9, 2020 19:06:27 GMT
So collins only defence is a) that he's young and b) at least he's not james chester. I can live with that to be honest. At least collins has potential. The other 3 centre halves that played today have no redeeming attributes. The defence of him Dave is a chronic lack of game time, and what limited game time he has had recently he's been hung out to dry at right back. He got done all over the first half through pure youthful exuberance. It happens with young players, he's 19 years old. The way to combat that is to give him game time and proper game time in his natural position but how could we do that when the manager went all in on James Chester? What game time he has had I can't really recall him costing us many if any goals yet with James Chester, Danny Batth, BMI and tonight with Tommy Smith (All four of them either in their thirties, or close to it with hundreds of games under their belts) I can write a book of. How can the manager stand there in his interview with a straight face and say that Collins was subbed because he struggled after watching the four experienced lads just try and catch a left winger offside virtually on the edge of their own six yard box whilst shipping a further four goals between them? The manager should hang his head in shame - he's completely mis-managed Collins from day one. An unfortunately I think Collins will be off first chance he gets, we’ll only realise what we’ll have lost in a couple of years
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 19:08:57 GMT
The defence of him Dave is a chronic lack of game time, and what limited game time he has had recently he's been hung out to dry at right back. He got done all over the first half through pure youthful exuberance. It happens with young players, he's 19 years old. The way to combat that is to give him game time and proper game time in his natural position but how could we do that when the manager went all in on James Chester? What game time he has had I can't really recall him costing us many if any goals yet with James Chester, Danny Batth, BMI and tonight with Tommy Smith (All four of them either in their thirties, or close to it with hundreds of games under their belts) I can write a book of. How can the manager stand there in his interview with a straight face and say that Collins was subbed because he struggled after watching the four experienced lads just try and catch a left winger offside virtually on the edge of their own six yard box whilst shipping a further four goals between them? The manager should hang his head in shame - he's completely mis-managed Collins from day one. An unfortunately I think Collins will be off first chance he gets, we’ll only realise what we’ll have lost in a couple of years I don't understand why the manager didn't think he was good enough back in November when he first came in, thought even less of him in January when he replaced him with a 31 year old loanee who has never been much kop but now at the sharp end of a relegation battle thinks he is good enough when it suits? It's rank bad management. Rank bad.
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Post by liathroid on Jul 9, 2020 19:09:18 GMT
Making the worst tactical sub ever? was watching the match Sky said he was injuryed at half time ,he s better than both Batth and Chester Collins V slow AND small know who I would take
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 19:14:46 GMT
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 9, 2020 19:14:46 GMT
An unfortunately I think Collins will be off first chance he gets, we’ll only realise what we’ll have lost in a couple of years I don't understand why the manager didn't think he was good enough back in November when he first came in, thought even less of him in January when he replaced him with a 31 year old loanee who has never been much kop but now at the sharp end of a relegation battle thinks he is good enough when it suits? It's rank bad management. Rank bad. And to throw him in at the deep end against Leeds as well! He didn’t have a great first half, looked a little unsure of himself, was that the first time we set up like that this season? Can’t have done the lads confidence much good and if he’d given him 15 mins (after some halftime instruction) to see was he improving I’m sure we wouldn’t have been 3 down.!!!!
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 19:15:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 19:15:54 GMT
The defence of him Dave is a chronic lack of game time, and what limited game time he has had recently he's been hung out to dry at right back. He got done all over the first half through pure youthful exuberance. It happens with young players, he's 19 years old. The way to combat that is to give him game time and proper game time in his natural position but how could we do that when the manager went all in on James Chester? What game time he has had I can't really recall him costing us many if any goals yet with James Chester, Danny Batth, BMI and tonight with Tommy Smith (All four of them either in their thirties, or close to it with hundreds of games under their belts) I can write a book of. How can the manager stand there in his interview with a straight face and say that Collins was subbed because he struggled after watching the four experienced lads just try and catch a left winger offside virtually on the edge of their own six yard box whilst shipping a further four goals between them? The manager should hang his head in shame - he's completely mis-managed Collins from day one. An unfortunately I think Collins will be off first chance he gets, we’ll only realise what we’ll have lost in a couple of years What’s that based on so far?
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Post by liathroid on Jul 9, 2020 19:17:26 GMT
I don't understand why the manager didn't think he was good enough back in November when he first came in, thought even less of him in January when he replaced him with a 31 year old loanee who has never been much kop but now at the sharp end of a relegation battle thinks he is good enough when it suits? It's rank bad management. Rank bad. And to throw him in at the deep end against Leeds as well! He didn’t have a great first half, looked a little unsure of himself, was that the first time we set up like that this season? Can’t have done the lads confidence much good and if he’d given him 15 mins (after some halftime instruction) to see was he improving I’m sure we wouldn’t have been 3 down.!!!! He tackled and cleared ,what did he do wrong
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 19:20:33 GMT
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 9, 2020 19:20:33 GMT
An unfortunately I think Collins will be off first chance he gets, we’ll only realise what we’ll have lost in a couple of years What’s that based on so far? Composed, can pass, strong and hard to knock off the ball, decent header of the ball, leadership ability. Yes he’s young and will make mistakes.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 9, 2020 19:21:31 GMT
And to throw him in at the deep end against Leeds as well! He didn’t have a great first half, looked a little unsure of himself, was that the first time we set up like that this season? Can’t have done the lads confidence much good and if he’d given him 15 mins (after some halftime instruction) to see was he improving I’m sure we wouldn’t have been 3 down.!!!! He tackled and cleared ,what did he do wrong Seemed to not know who to pick up, got caught between players in no mans land a few times
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 19:22:34 GMT
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Post by s7oke on Jul 9, 2020 19:22:34 GMT
Coward sub again. Worked wonders too 🤦♂️ I'd have taken him off as well. He looked lost. I wouldn't have bought Chester on though I’d have bought another keeper on for him Maybe we should play rush
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 19:22:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 19:22:39 GMT
What’s that based on so far? Composed, can pass, strong and hard to knock off the ball, decent header of the ball, leadership ability. Yes he’s young and will make mistakes. He may be all of those things going forward. But composure and passing having been in evident post lockdown. I’m not knocking the kid, he’s learning his trade. But let’s not kid ourselves that he’s been anything but average since Reading.....
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 19:25:19 GMT
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 9, 2020 19:25:19 GMT
Composed, can pass, strong and hard to knock off the ball, decent header of the ball, leadership ability. Yes he’s young and will make mistakes. He may be all of those things going forward. But composure and passing having been in evident post lockdown. I’m not knocking the kid, he’s learning his trade. But let’s not kid ourselves that he’s been anything but average since Reading..... He’s played 45 mins in his favoured position and in a defensive system that we haven’t used this season, no?
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 19:28:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 19:28:30 GMT
He may be all of those things going forward. But composure and passing having been in evident post lockdown. I’m not knocking the kid, he’s learning his trade. But let’s not kid ourselves that he’s been anything but average since Reading..... He’s played 45 mins in his favoured position and in a defensive system that we haven’t used this season, no? I don’t disagree. But if he’s as good as you say he is I’d have expected him to adapt and perform better. Whatever position you play in it’s irrelevant if you’re an alleged good passer isn’t it?
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 19:32:44 GMT
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 9, 2020 19:32:44 GMT
He’s played 45 mins in his favoured position and in a defensive system that we haven’t used this season, no? I don’t disagree. But if he’s as good as you say he is I’d have expected him to adapt and perform better. Whatever position you play in it’s irrelevant if you’re an alleged good passer isn’t it? Fair enough. I think he’s a bit too big for a RB, I’ve watched a lot of him at CB and have been very impressed. Can’t understand why he was put out there. I think/hope you’ll get to see what he can do. Edit: also think it’s a bit harsh assuming that whatever position you play in. He’s learning his craft and to be dropped in at RB more than likely had him out of his comfort zone
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Post by liathroid on Jul 9, 2020 19:32:50 GMT
He tackled and cleared ,what did he do wrong Seemed to not know who to pick up, got caught between players in no mans land a few times ok blocked well yes , tackled well yes / didnt give away a stupid peno in the 1st half yes ,where did it all go wrong
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 19:35:03 GMT
I don’t disagree. But if he’s as good as you say he is I’d have expected him to adapt and perform better. Whatever position you play in it’s irrelevant if you’re an alleged good passer isn’t it? Fair enough. I think he’s a bit too big for a RB, I’ve watched a lot of him at CB and have been very impressed. Can’t understand why he was put out there. I think/hope you’ll get to see what he can do. I know I’m being overly harsh. I like the lad, I rate him and hope he’s our number one centre back next season. I just think if he’s as special a talent as we think he is he’d be more adaptable and his quality would shine through a bit more.....
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 19:36:36 GMT
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 9, 2020 19:36:36 GMT
Seemed to not know who to pick up, got caught between players in no mans land a few times ok blocked well yes , tackled well yes / didnt give away a stupid peno in the 1st half yes ,where did it all go wrong Are you not reading my defence of Collins??? He didn’t have a great 45, let a pass slip by him that he should have prevented and was caught in no mans land a good bit Notwithstanding that I’d have kept him on
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Post by Fred Merger on Jul 9, 2020 19:39:41 GMT
It's a massive call for the Birmingham game. If Shawcross isn't fit and he starts with Batth it's a toss up of the consistently incompetent Chester or the Young apprentice in Collins. Both capable of fucking us up.
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Post by bezza182 on Jul 9, 2020 19:46:24 GMT
I think Collins hasn't been given the game time others have been....
We would do our selves well to give this lad a break and cross our fingers he will come good.
I thought we were OK 1st half considering the opposition until a silly mistake.
Nathan is a good lad and he will come good with the likes of Harry in the coming seasons.
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 19:48:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 19:48:24 GMT
It's a massive call for the Birmingham game. If Shawcross isn't fit and he starts with Batth it's a toss up of the consistently incompetent Chester or the Young apprentice in Collins. Both capable of fucking us up. All of Birmingham’s pace comes from Lynda Bellingham and she has one eye on her move to Dortmund and was dropped recently. I’m always confident at home against teams that aren’t blessed with loads of pace all over the pitch....
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Post by Olgrligm on Jul 9, 2020 19:51:29 GMT
I'm with Bayern, in that I thought we did ok up until the penalty. Certainly better than the second half, anyway. Our team was trying to match Leeds' energy levels and we didn't give away too many clear cut chances apart from the one with the miraculous bit of defending from McClean and Batth. If Smith hadn't made that utterly bizarre challenge, I think we would have gone in level at half time and had some difficult decisions to make in terms of having players fit for Sunday.
With regards the centre backs, I noticed Batth a lot but thought he had a reasonable first half. He did everything in his clumsy, awkward could-give-away-a-goal-any-second manner, but I saw him make a lot of interceptions and blocks, plus he won a lot of headers. He looks better in a backs-against-the-wall back three. Second half he was, obviously, a walking disaster. I didn't especially notice Collins struggling, but plenty pointed it out on the matchday thread at half time.
I'm absolutely crap at reading a game when it's on the television. You miss so much.
P.S. Given a choice of all of our defenders, I'd play Shawcross and Collins against Birmingham.
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 20:04:06 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 9, 2020 20:04:06 GMT
Chester against Hogan is a disaster waiting to happen.
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 20:05:35 GMT
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Post by thehoof on Jul 9, 2020 20:05:35 GMT
He’s played 45 mins in his favoured position and in a defensive system that we haven’t used this season, no? I don’t disagree. But if he’s as good as you say he is I’d have expected him to adapt and perform better. Whatever position you play in it’s irrelevant if you’re an alleged good passer isn’t it? After watching Batth and BMI trying to find a stoke player and failing all season, while I will accept that Collins’ was caught in no mans land on a few occasions, I wouldn’t criticise his passing. Chester was caught out every time the ball was played into our half, the third and fourth goals either saw huge holes where a Centre Half should be, or woeful attempts at playing offside, while the 5th goal was like watching a sloth trying to move on the forest floor. The experienced players- as Dave Jonno has pointed out- made Collins’ performance easier to swallow; the other 4 were not good enough to even register a minus rating!
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 20:06:27 GMT
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Post by Fred Merger on Jul 9, 2020 20:06:27 GMT
I'm with Bayern, in that I thought we did ok up until the penalty. Certainly better than the second half, anyway. Our team was trying to match Leeds' energy levels and we didn't give away too many clear cut chances apart from the one with the miraculous bit of defending from McClean and Batth. If Smith hadn't made that utterly bizarre challenge, I think we would have gone in level at half time and had some difficult decisions to make in terms of having players fit for Sunday. With regards the centre backs, I noticed Batth a lot but thought he had a reasonable first half. He did everything in his clumsy, awkward could-give-away-a-goal-any-second manner, but I saw him make a lot of interceptions and blocks, plus he won a lot of headers. He looks better in a backs-against-the-wall back three. Second half he was, obviously, a walking disaster. I didn't especially notice Collins struggling, but plenty pointed it out on the matchday thread at half time. I'm absolutely crap at reading a game when it's on the television. You miss so much. P.S. Given a choice of all of our defenders, I'd play Shawcross and Collins against Birmingham. Agree with most of that but do you risk an unfit Shawcross over Batth who is slow but is a tryer and decent in the air?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 20:06:31 GMT
I don’t disagree. But if he’s as good as you say he is I’d have expected him to adapt and perform better. Whatever position you play in it’s irrelevant if you’re an alleged good passer isn’t it? After watching Batth and BMI trying to find a stoke player and failing all season, while I will accept that Collins’ was caught in no mans land on a few occasions, I wouldn’t criticise his passing. Chester was caught out every time the ball was played into our half, the third and fourth goals either saw huge holes where a Centre Half should be, or woeful attempts at playing offside, while the 5th goal was like watching a sloth trying to move on the forest floor. The experienced players- as Dave Jonno has pointed out- made Collins’ performance easier to swallow; the other 4 were not good enough to even register a minus rating! His passing against Wigan was terrible, wouldn’t criticise is tonight particularly.....
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 20:10:43 GMT
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Post by thehoof on Jul 9, 2020 20:10:43 GMT
After watching Batth and BMI trying to find a stoke player and failing all season, while I will accept that Collins’ was caught in no mans land on a few occasions, I wouldn’t criticise his passing. Chester was caught out every time the ball was played into our half, the third and fourth goals either saw huge holes where a Centre Half should be, or woeful attempts at playing offside, while the 5th goal was like watching a sloth trying to move on the forest floor. The experienced players- as Dave Jonno has pointed out- made Collins’ performance easier to swallow; the other 4 were not good enough to even register a minus rating! His passing against Wigan was terrible, wouldn’t criticise is tonight particularly..... It wasn’t good against Wigan, I agree. I go back to what I said about Batth and BMI- if passing is the criteria for judging our defenders, those two should never be picked again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 20:12:19 GMT
His passing against Wigan was terrible, wouldn’t criticise is tonight particularly..... It wasn’t good against Wigan, I agree. I go back to what I said about Batth and BMI- if passing is the criteria for judging our defenders, those two should never be picked again. Batth’s passing is horrendous. I’m hoping we’ve seen the last of both after this season.....
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 20:27:49 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 9, 2020 20:27:49 GMT
Danny Batth has escaped a thread so far which I find mind boggling. He was the worst defender first half and then got worse in the second.
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Post by Cast no shadow on Jul 9, 2020 20:29:50 GMT
Bet he regrets signing that deal. Treated like shite
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Collins
Jul 9, 2020 22:09:33 GMT
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Post by Olgrligm on Jul 9, 2020 22:09:33 GMT
I'm with Bayern, in that I thought we did ok up until the penalty. Certainly better than the second half, anyway. Our team was trying to match Leeds' energy levels and we didn't give away too many clear cut chances apart from the one with the miraculous bit of defending from McClean and Batth. If Smith hadn't made that utterly bizarre challenge, I think we would have gone in level at half time and had some difficult decisions to make in terms of having players fit for Sunday. With regards the centre backs, I noticed Batth a lot but thought he had a reasonable first half. He did everything in his clumsy, awkward could-give-away-a-goal-any-second manner, but I saw him make a lot of interceptions and blocks, plus he won a lot of headers. He looks better in a backs-against-the-wall back three. Second half he was, obviously, a walking disaster. I didn't especially notice Collins struggling, but plenty pointed it out on the matchday thread at half time. I'm absolutely crap at reading a game when it's on the television. You miss so much. P.S. Given a choice of all of our defenders, I'd play Shawcross and Collins against Birmingham. Agree with most of that but do you risk an unfit Shawcross over Batth who is slow but is a tryer and decent in the air? Ryan will always have question marks about his injury status, but he's a much better player than our other defenders.
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