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Post by FullerMagic on Dec 23, 2019 11:32:28 GMT
...where things became unmanageable?
While the summer dealings were obviously an utter shambles, it's striking how the January signings have proved to be even more disastrous. We need a change of fortune this time.
The January business has been horrific - even the Jan 2018 and Jan 2019 windows, which at the time were viewed as a reasonable rescue act in both cases - and that was coming after Imbula (16) and Berahino (17).
Jan 2016 Imbula 18
Summer 2016 Allen 13 Sobhi 5
Jan 2017 Grant 1 Berahino 12 (15)
Summer 2017 Fletcher Free Tymon 2 Zouma Loan Choupo Free Jese Loan BMI 7 Wimmer 15 (18)
Jan 2018 Bauer 5 Ndiaye 14
Summer 2018 Etebo 6 Federici Free McClean 5 (6) Clucas 6 Ince 10 (12) Afobe 12 Woods 6.5 Martina Loan
Jan 2019 Vokes 7 Batth 3
Summer 2019 Smith 4 Lindsay 2.5 Davies Free Cousins Free Gregory Free Powell Free Ward Free CCV Loan Duffy Loan Hogan Loan
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Post by stokeson on Dec 23, 2019 11:38:20 GMT
Summer 2017.Not getting a sriker cost us our premiership status.
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Post by FullerMagic on Dec 23, 2019 11:48:30 GMT
Yeah, I'd probably say summer 17 is the single biggest reason we are where we are.
Lack of a striker, the bad apple quota becoming uncontrollable - and the farcical lack of preparation for his switch to wing-backs were a dereliction of duty.
You've got to laugh at spending 22m on Wimmer and BMI - while leaving yourself with Diouf and Pieters as the first choice wing-backs for your fancy back 3 system. It's almost unbelievable.
But we've had so many chances to attempt some sort of course correction with a strong window, and we've just dug the hole deeper and deeper. Summer 19 was just a masterclass in idiocy - and that was a year after Rowett's mad trolley dash, which was maybe the worst ever 50m spent by a club in this league, with the most profound consequences
It's almost like we've done it on purpose it's been so bad.
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Post by onionman on Dec 23, 2019 11:48:46 GMT
I make that 1 good signing and 31 unmitigated disasters.
Give Lee Grant a knighthood.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 23, 2019 11:55:11 GMT
I honestly think the one that will set us back the most is the one just gone.
And Summet 2017 is on the board for me. They should have sacked Hughes the May before after the Arsenal game. But what an awful window too!
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Dec 23, 2019 11:57:07 GMT
Summer 2019 bloated a bloated squad even more, and none of those players have been close to first-team regulars. I think that's where things became unmanageable, as there are even more players to get rid of. Hopefully, at least 2 of the loans can be returned in January.
If it was generally which was the worst, I'd say summer 2017 when we failed to get any characters in the vein of Huth, Walters, Whelan and Bardsley in, who'd all left by that point. Though that should have been addressed long before - Huth, Walters and Whelan had been here a long time, so no player was likely to come in and have an immediate impact in the dressing room.
I'll stick with summer 2019. Jones struggled to deal with so many players, and if he didn't have so many options, wouldn't have been able to fiddle with starting lineups so much. Now O'Neill has come in and our two best players seem to have been dropped completely...who knows what'll happen with the new signings who're not playing.
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Post by onionman on Dec 23, 2019 11:57:12 GMT
Yeah, I'd probably say summer 17 is the single biggest reason we are where we are. Lack of a striker, the bad apple quota becoming uncontrollable - and the farcical lack of preparation for his switch to wing-backs were a dereliction of duty. You've got to laugh at spending 22m on Wimmer and BMI - while leaving yourself with Diouf and Pieters as the first choice wing-backs for your fancy back 3 system. It's almost unbelievable. But we've had so many chances to attempt some sort of course correction with a strong window, and we've just dug the hole deeper and deeper. Summer 19 was just a masterclass in idiocy - and that was a year after Rowett's mad trolley dash, which was maybe the worst ever 50m spent by a club in this league, with the most profound consequences It's almost like we've done it on purpose it's been so bad. Every time we’ve decided to change formation we’ve recruited stupidly. Hughes with his wingbackless wingbacks system, Rowett with his 4–3-3 with Afobe, McClean and Ince, and then Jones with his diamond without anyone capable of playing in the diamond. Madness.
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Post by RWChris on Dec 23, 2019 12:06:52 GMT
Slightly more under the radar as he was ‘only’ a loan, one of the worst signings was Bony in summer 2016.
He was supposed to be our 20-goal man, we paid out a hefty loan fee and must’ve spent a fortune on wages and he was absolute disaster. Two goals in total, both in the same game and barely a dozen appearances? He wasn’t even making the squad by the second half of the season.
A complete waste of finances and more evidence that there was no kind of joined up thinking from anyone at the club.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 23, 2019 12:21:29 GMT
...where things became unmanageable? While the summer dealings were obviously an utter shambles, it's striking how the January signings have proved to be even more disastrous. We need a change of fortune this time. The January business has been horrific - even the Jan 2018 and Jan 2019 windows, which at the time were viewed as a reasonable rescue act in both cases - and that was coming after Imbula (16) and Berahino (17). Jan 2016Imbula 18 Summer 2016Allen 13 Sobhi 5 Jan 2017Grant 1 Berahino 12 (15) Summer 2017Fletcher Free Tymon 2 Choupo Free Jese Loan BMI 7 Wimmer 15 (18) Jan 2018Bauer 5 Ndiaye 14 Summer 2018Etebo 6 McClean 5 (6) Clucas 6 Ince 10 (12) Afobe 12 Woods 6.5 Martina Loan Jan 2019Vokes 7 Batth 3 Summer 2019Smith 4 Lindsay 2.5 Davies Free Cousins Free Gregory Free Powell Free Ward Free CCV Loan Duffy Loan Hogan Loan Just look at that utter pile of rubbish. If you were given £150 million to spend and you purposefully tried to blow it on complete dross, would it be possible to be any more successful? How many of them have actually been a success ... Grant?
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Post by berahinosgoals on Dec 23, 2019 12:24:12 GMT
I make that 1 good signing and 31 unmitigated disasters. Give Lee Grant a knighthood. How is that even possible though, youd surely get lucky somewhere down the list, 31 players, 30 shit signings? Hhow?
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Post by ParaPsych on Dec 23, 2019 12:27:03 GMT
Does anyone have a list of the previous 32 signings? Just for comparisons, to make us all feel worse.
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Post by LankyPotter on Dec 23, 2019 12:29:48 GMT
...where things became unmanageable? While the summer dealings were obviously an utter shambles, it's striking how the January signings have proved to be even more disastrous. We need a change of fortune this time. The January business has been horrific - even the Jan 2018 and Jan 2019 windows, which at the time were viewed as a reasonable rescue act in both cases - and that was coming after Imbula (16) and Berahino (17). Jan 2016Imbula 18 Summer 2016Allen 13 Sobhi 5 Jan 2017Grant 1 Berahino 12 (15) Summer 2017Fletcher Free Tymon 2 Choupo Free Jese Loan BMI 7 Wimmer 15 (18) Jan 2018Bauer 5 Ndiaye 14 Summer 2018Etebo 6 McClean 5 (6) Clucas 6 Ince 10 (12) Afobe 12 Woods 6.5 Martina Loan Jan 2019Vokes 7 Batth 3 Summer 2019Smith 4 Lindsay 2.5 Davies Free Cousins Free Gregory Free Powell Free Ward Free CCV Loan Duffy Loan Hogan Loan They are all frightening!
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Post by Goonie on Dec 23, 2019 12:39:29 GMT
Yeah, I'd probably say summer 17 is the single biggest reason we are where we are. Lack of a striker, the bad apple quota becoming uncontrollable - and the farcical lack of preparation for his switch to wing-backs were a dereliction of duty. You've got to laugh at spending 22m on Wimmer and BMI - while leaving yourself with Diouf and Pieters as the first choice wing-backs for your fancy back 3 system. It's almost unbelievable. But we've had so many chances to attempt some sort of course correction with a strong window, and we've just dug the hole deeper and deeper. Summer 19 was just a masterclass in idiocy - and that was a year after Rowett's mad trolley dash, which was maybe the worst ever 50m spent by a club in this league, with the most profound consequences It's almost like we've done it on purpose it's been so bad. Every time we’ve decided to change formation we’ve recruited stupidly. Hughes with his wingbackless wingbacks system, Rowett with his 4–3-3 with Afobe, McClean and Ince, and then Jones with his diamond without anyone capable of playing in the diamond. Madness. Jones's delusion he could turn McClean into a wing back as he was 'such a great coach' was almost sectionable!
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Post by Billybigbollox on Dec 23, 2019 12:47:15 GMT
Every time we’ve decided to change formation we’ve recruited stupidly. Hughes with his wingbackless wingbacks system, Rowett with his 4–3-3 with Afobe, McClean and Ince, and then Jones with his diamond without anyone capable of playing in the diamond. Madness. Jones's delusion he could turn McClean into a wing back as he was 'such a great coach' was almost sectionable! Turning that useless twat Mcclean into a footballer would've been a start.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Dec 23, 2019 12:54:23 GMT
I make that 1 good signing and 31 unmitigated disasters. Give Lee Grant a knighthood. How is that even possible though, youd surely get lucky somewhere down the list, 31 players, 30 shit signings? Hhow? It's got to be down to what they've come into. Looking at Rowett's summer signings, while the fees may be inflated, only Martina hasn't looked anything like being a good player. The others all have pedigree at Championship level. Not utilising some to the best of their abilities (Afobe to start with) hasn't helped.
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Post by Waggy on Dec 23, 2019 12:56:36 GMT
Jones's delusion he could turn McClean into a wing back as he was 'such a great coach' was almost sectionable! Turning that useless twat Mcclean into a footballer would've been a start. My friend Trevor says McClean is good, he tries. I will give him that, he can run and run but he needs to how to cross. Frustrates me, his deliveries are awful. Same with Ince not sure i have seen him actually cross a ball yet
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 13:06:13 GMT
1 100% successful signing,Grant. A handful who did ok but didn't pull up any trees. The vast majority an unmitigated disaster.
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Post by wakeypotter on Dec 23, 2019 13:16:02 GMT
They all look bad to be fair but if I had to pick it would be jan 16 as we were 1 top striker away from being a top 7 side in prem followed by the last one under jones as that is the 1 that is guna take along time to recover from. Ultimately signing the wrong managers have cost us.
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Post by biglad180 on Dec 23, 2019 13:20:31 GMT
we have had some shockers looking at that but for me its 2019 loads of dead wood there. we need to offload as many as possible.
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Post by Trouserdog on Dec 23, 2019 14:34:28 GMT
When you look at that list, it's no wonder we are where we are.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 14:39:55 GMT
A toss up between summer 17 and 18 for me.
It's now obvious that the much fabled overhaul involved spending as much as humanly possible, which is a sure sign admission that they tried to stay up in 2017 on the cheap.
A simply awful way to run a football club and totally ironic that a bunch of bookies have chased the debt.
Deary me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 14:50:59 GMT
Turning that useless twat Mcclean into a footballer would've been a start. My friend Trevor says McClean is good, he tries. I will give him that, he can run and run but he needs to how to cross. Frustrates me, his deliveries are awful. Same with Ince not sure i have seen him actually cross a ball yet He's 30 years old, what are the chances of him learning now what he never could before in his career? Could you ask your friend Trevor if he's ever seen McClean do anything productive on all his runs, because I haven't
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Post by westgatelakes on Dec 23, 2019 15:05:33 GMT
Got to be Summer 17. Spending only £22m when in the Premier League & not adequately replacing Arnoutevic.
Then, in an attempt to rectify the situation, spending (wasting) nearly £50m twelve months later.
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Post by Trouserdog on Dec 23, 2019 15:12:08 GMT
To answer the question though, I think Rowett's splurge has done us the most damage as a single window.
Etebo for £6m is a good signing regardless of what's been happening recently, and I suppose you could say that Clucas for £6m isn't terrible.
However, McClean for £5m is at least double what he's really worth, Ince and Woods the same, while anybody spending £12m on Benik Afobe should probably be sectioned.
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Post by lagwafis on Dec 23, 2019 15:28:11 GMT
Does anyone have a list of the previous 32 signings? Just for comparisons, to make us all feel worse. Here's a half-arsed attempt taken from Wikipedia Summer 2015Shaqiri - 12 Wollscheid - 2.5 Haugaard - Undisclosed Joselu - 5.75 Given - Free Johnson - Free Moha - Free Afellay - Free Jan 2015N/A Summer 2014Bardsley - Free Sidwell - Free Diouf - Free Teixeira - Undisclosed Bojan - Undisclosed Jan 2014Agudelo - Free Odemwingie - Player exchange Summer 2013Pieters - 3 Muniesa - Free Arnautovic - 2 Ireland - Free Jan 2013Shea - 2.5 Butland - 3.5 Summer 2012Adam - 4 Nzonzi - 3 Cameron - 2.5 Edu - Undisclosed Ness - Free Kightly - Undisclosed Owen - Free
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Post by Gary Hackett on Dec 23, 2019 15:53:05 GMT
What an absolute pile of shit there.
It's like driving your car off a cliff and expecting to carry on driving.
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Post by ParaPsych on Dec 23, 2019 16:00:52 GMT
Does anyone have a list of the previous 32 signings? Just for comparisons, to make us all feel worse. Here's a half-arsed attempt taken from Wikipedia Summer 2015Shaqiri - 12 Wollscheid - 2.5 Haugaard - Undisclosed Joselu - 5.75 Given - Free Johnson - Free Moha - Free Afellay - Free Jan 2015N/A Summer 2014Bardsley - Free Sidwell - Free Diouf - Free Teixeira - Undisclosed Bojan - Undisclosed Jan 2014Agudelo - Free Odemwingie - Player exchange Summer 2013Pieters - 3 Muniesa - Free Arnautovic - 2 Ireland - Free Jan 2013Shea - 2.5 Butland - 3.5 Summer 2012Adam - 4 Nzonzi - 3 Cameron - 2.5 Edu - Undisclosed Ness - Free Kightly - Undisclosed Owen - Free A mixed bag as you'd expect, there's obviously some shit in there, but also some absolute quality.
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Post by skip on Dec 23, 2019 16:13:33 GMT
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Post by berahinosgoals on Dec 23, 2019 16:17:01 GMT
How is that even possible though, youd surely get lucky somewhere down the list, 31 players, 30 shit signings? Hhow? It's got to be down to what they've come into. Looking at Rowett's summer signings, while the fees may be inflated, only Martina hasn't looked anything like being a good player. The others all have pedigree at Championship level. Not utilising some to the best of their abilities (Afobe to start with) hasn't helped. There does have to be more to it than all 30 are poor players, it would take some doing to get that amount of bad players in succession by design spending that amount of money, let alone by accident. It has to be something about the club as you say. Not sticking up for the players though, they deserve every bit of stick they get
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 23, 2019 16:25:16 GMT
When you look at that list, it's no wonder we are where we are. When you look at that list you see in full technicolour glory why we are where we are. What an absolute shambles. The fact that the only real success in that is Lee Grant, a free transfer, tells its own story.
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