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Post by Ex-term-oat-cake on Dec 11, 2019 11:10:33 GMT
Results: MON>NJ Performances: NJ>MON.. It’s a results business.
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Post by leicspotter on Dec 11, 2019 13:46:43 GMT
As things stand at the moment they can say "fuck off" to me as much as they like, as long as it means they are winning games and avoiding us dropping to League 1. At the end of the season I expect / hope to be saying "fuck off" to quite a few of the them too You're missing the point completely because I feel the same way if it brings safety. The conversation is about MON's record and I'm simply saying that the inspiration for at least 2 wins have come from other sources rather than the management itself and over the last 18 months the players have got an awful lot to answer to. I'm agreeing with you, albeit maybe a bit obtusely
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Post by markby on Dec 11, 2019 14:13:05 GMT
As things stand at the moment they can say "fuck off" to me as much as they like, as long as it means they are winning games and avoiding us dropping to League 1. At the end of the season I expect / hope to be saying "fuck off" to quite a few of the them too I suspect that that will be O'Neill's attitude, too.
When he first took over NI, he inherited a couple of players who were amongst his most talented, but who were also temperamentally suspect. Initially he had no choice but to put up with them, but as he got to work on his squad/formation/tactics, he gradually edged them out, without fuss or drama. There's one in particular who probably still doesn't realise what was happening lol!
Trust me, Michael may be softly spoken, but he's no soft touch.
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Post by Frogger Theft Auto on Dec 11, 2019 14:22:47 GMT
He will need to do that for the rest of this season though. We have 25 games left, so let's assume we don't "round up". That's 12 = 36 points. Which puts us on 53 points. 53 points is mid table. It would have been 17th and 12 points above relegation last season. And would be a decent season after where we were when MON arrived. It'd actually be 16th, same as last year, 17th had 52 points, so we'd be above them. And his points per game total spread over the rest of the games is 54.5 points, we finished with 55 last year. So far so good.
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Post by GoBoks on Dec 11, 2019 15:56:42 GMT
Blah blah blah. Don't you ever change the record? We’ve beaten Wigan, Luton and Barnsley who are all around us and lost to middling sides. That’s a fact and credit to him for the wins because it’s what we need to stay up. What do you want me to say? He’s a footballing genius? As for the changing the structure of the club to truly change things you yourself advocated it in Project 107: We finished a bit short last year btw. Yep we sure did. BUT, things change over 18 months. We failed spectacularly, but it wasn't due to a lack of commitment from the Coates family. They have provided massive funding for the team and managers and have stepped up to the plate. One might find fault with their managerial choices, but Rowett was a very popular choice. Many even calling for him to replace Hughes in the Prem. Nathan Jones? The fact he kept so many onside is a tribute to his ability to talk the talk, sadly no walk. Now we have O'Neill. What do you suggest, remain in full on moan mode? The guy has managed 6 games and has accumulated more points than Jones in the first 15 games of this season. He has accumulated 8 points more than Tony Pulis managed in his first 6 games - and he worked out OK. Let's give him a chance. Let's try build some rapport between the fans and the team. Let's acknowledge that the Coates family has put their money where their mouth is. If we don't get some rapport going, we are going no where fast.
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Post by georgieboy52 on Dec 11, 2019 16:01:34 GMT
Stoke are a bit better than bastard Barnsley, lousy Luton and wanky Wigan.
That will be enough for survival but not much more this season.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Dec 11, 2019 16:29:27 GMT
We’ve beaten Wigan, Luton and Barnsley who are all around us and lost to middling sides. That’s a fact and credit to him for the wins because it’s what we need to stay up. What do you want me to say? He’s a footballing genius? As for the changing the structure of the club to truly change things you yourself advocated it in Project 107: We finished a bit short last year btw. Yep we sure did. BUT, things change over 18 months. We failed spectacularly, but it wasn't due to a lack of commitment from the Coates family. They have provided massive funding for the team and managers and have stepped up to the plate. One might find fault with their managerial choices, but Rowett was a very popular choice. Many even calling for him to replace Hughes in the Prem. Nathan Jones? The fact he kept so many onside is a tribute to his ability to talk the talk, sadly no walk. Now we have O'Neill. What do you suggest, remain in full on moan mode? The guy has managed 6 games and has accumulated more points than Jones in the first 15 games of this season. He has accumulated 8 points more than Tony Pulis managed in his first 6 games - and he worked out OK. Let's give him a chance. Let's try build some rapport between the fans and the team. Let's acknowledge that the Coates family has put their money where their mouth is. If we don't get some rapport going, we are going no where fast. I don't get where I've moaned about O'Neill? I've said he should be credited for his wins but against the middling sides we were a bit crap. That's not a moan at all. It's how it is. He's got off to a decent start and I hope he can continue it through the most realistic route open to us, which is to beat the team around us before building to challenging higher sides. He's a likeable chap and is keen to get us onboard. He'll do that if we stay up undoubtedly. On several threads, I've commended the financial commitment the Coates have made to the club because they really have thrown all they can at it. My point however is their approach has been akin to spending hundreds of pounds putting diesel in a petrol engine. We've spent more than anyone else, but these days just having money isn't the be all and end all with most clubs finding value in the market using modern structural approaches: Sporting Directors ensuring cohesion in the club from top to bottom, working with a manager on transfers in a collaborative environment ensuring the cash provided by the owner is best used. No one can say we have anything resembling that, and whilst its admirable they've trusted the manager with funds somewhat (in addition to Scholes) it's and incredibly naïve and outdated way of running a football club. West Brom were taken over in 2017 and relegated in 2018. Their owner sacked the CEO and Chairman and appointed a Sporting Director in Luke Dowling to oversee recruitment, academy development and all football aspects of the club. This took the pressure of a rookie manager in Darren Moore and let him do what he did best, coach. After sacking Moore, their structure allowed them to appoint a manager with a style to best fit the squad. Something we haven't done at all when you look at how starkly different our managers have been, meaning players get left out etc. They invested well and exploited a youth loan market, bringing in Harvey Barnes. They've continued it this year, letting Billic do his thing, using the loan market with Pereira and Diangana. In addition to sensible investment in players with potential and getting players like Sawyers for under 3 million. I'd love us to have a structure like that, clear accountability at every single level which we've lacked. For instance, Tony Scholes saying FFP makes it difficult for established PL clubs to spend in the Championship is a ridiculous statement and completely refutable. The reason FFP will bite us is because we've spent the Coates' money poorly and will lose our parachute payments unless O'Neill can turn this around on a dime. If Coates changed the structure, as was promised in the major overhaul to a more modern one, like that of WBA, Brentford or Leeds then he'd instantly restore my confidence in him even if it took a few years to come to fruition. It's not monochrome, not every view that doesn't praise the club to high heaven after such a decline is a moan. It's where we are.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 16:59:52 GMT
Is he now back to being the Messiah and Stoke are on the up for a few days until we no doubt collapse against Reading?
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Dec 11, 2019 17:35:56 GMT
Is he now back to being the Messiah and Stoke are on the up for a few days until we no doubt collapse against Reading? Alright grumpy chops😁 don’t think anyone’s saying that dude (general consensus) . Maybe the odd plonker but that’s life there’s always a few around.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 20:53:16 GMT
It’s a decent result but a proper test coming now , reading have improved and he’s got better players he didn’t pick He isn’t picking those “better players” because they’ll be gone in January and he’s building a team around a core of players he knows he can afford to keep. So Etebo has been out injured for four weeks, and MON decided to play him in the 23s until fully fit (probably Saturday), and the other has got flu .....
That is all bullshit is it?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 12, 2019 8:31:31 GMT
Played 6 Won 3 Drawn 0 Lost 3 Goals for 11 Goals against 8 9 points from 18 +3 GD Some might say that the fixtures have been kind, but he can’t affect that. The Blackburn and particularly the Hull game we’re very poor - but he’s started something and is producing better than Mr Jones. We can really judge him after 12 games and a transfer window. A club making judgements about their manager after 12 games is doomed to fail.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 7:36:30 GMT
Played 6 Won 3 Drawn 0 Lost 3 Goals for 11 Goals against 8 9 points from 18 +3 GD Some might say that the fixtures have been kind, but he can’t affect that. The Blackburn and particularly the Hull game we’re very poor - but he’s started something and is producing better than Mr Jones. We can really judge him after 12 games and a transfer window. A club making judgements about their manager after 12 games is doomed to fail. So it should be longer or shorter than 12?
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Post by rawli on Dec 13, 2019 11:26:59 GMT
That's all we need, three worse teams than us. And yet Luton,who were horrific,are above us It's common for a promoted side to start well and then falter.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 11:48:23 GMT
And yet Luton,who were horrific,are above us It's common for a promoted side to start well and then falter. I saw Wigan on the highlights show and they ripped Wba apart.Should have won easily. I'm not convinced there are 3 teams worse than us. We'll have to improve to stay up
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Post by lordb on Dec 13, 2019 12:51:51 GMT
And yet Luton,who were horrific,are above us It's common for a promoted side to start well and then falter. good point
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 13, 2019 13:35:30 GMT
The facts as they are this season Jones P15 W2 D2 L11 F13 A27 PTS 8 ONeill P6 W3 D0 L3 F11 A8 PTS 9 So more points in a lot less games, a better goals per game ratio, and a better defensive record. Considering what he inherited I’d say he’s done ok so far...... I think you're right but in a note of caution we've ended up with a bizarre fixture list where we played pretty much all the too half teams under Jones and reaping the rewards of having a run of bottem half teams under O'Neil so the points tally is skewed. Having said that I think O'Neil's pragmatism in getting the best out of what we've got (and likely to retain) will be enough to see us safe
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Post by dutchstokie on Dec 13, 2019 13:41:12 GMT
Is he now back to being the Messiah and Stoke are on the up for a few days until we no doubt collapse against Reading? Aye thats about the size of it...…."pep 2.0" or a complete anus..... Gotta love the Oatcake at 4.45 on a Saturday !
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Post by ibby on Dec 13, 2019 13:54:22 GMT
He has done OK, as he was never my choice of manager, at the time. He comes across as a person, who knows what he is talking about
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 13, 2019 19:08:54 GMT
A club making judgements about their manager after 12 games is doomed to fail. So it should be longer or shorter than 12? I'd go longer - but maybe we should recruit managers on a per match basis and have done with this patience lark.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 21:27:26 GMT
So it should be longer or shorter than 12? I'd go longer - but maybe we should recruit managers on a per match basis and have done with this patience lark. So you’d give a bad manager a year? Nathan Jones?
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Post by vantheman on Dec 14, 2019 20:50:22 GMT
Plus just watched him go out on Pointless celebrates in the first round!!
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