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Post by salopstick on Jan 24, 2020 20:39:05 GMT
The reality is a lot can happen between now and the next election so I wouldn’t be getting carried away with either scenario if I was Johnson, he’s got his own issues on the horizon. Ultimately whoever gets the gig for Labour it’s about uniting the party first and foremost. Until that happens they’ll be pissing in the wind..... Too many factions within labour to bridge the gap, you got the woke faction, the super woke faction and the mega woke faction.🙂
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2020 20:43:39 GMT
Admit it, you’ve literally started to use the word woke in the last week haven’t you? Actually no, been using it since 2016/17, it’s a well worn phrase, maybe even a bit cliche now, but it accurately describes the priggish narcissistic leftists who are obsessed with finding “racism” under every stone so they can grandstand against it and get social media brownie points for being oh so “right on”... you’ve got lefty bloggers actually going to the cinema and counting the amount of lines black actors get compared to their white co stars! The woke left is attempting to resurrect racism for political purposes, it’s disgusting. Can’t see the wood for the trees on Twitter for lefty bloggers counting lines from black actors. It’s a massive issue.....
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Post by serpico on Jan 24, 2020 20:58:20 GMT
Actually no, been using it since 2016/17, it’s a well worn phrase, maybe even a bit cliche now, but it accurately describes the priggish narcissistic leftists who are obsessed with finding “racism” under every stone so they can grandstand against it and get social media brownie points for being oh so “right on”... you’ve got lefty bloggers actually going to the cinema and counting the amount of lines black actors get compared to their white co stars! The woke left is attempting to resurrect racism for political purposes, it’s disgusting. Can’t see the wood for the trees on Twitter for lefty bloggers counting lines from black actors. It’s a massive issue..... We know you can’t cant see the problem, this is precisely why you’ll continue to lose election after election, vote after vote, the cancerous identitarians have destroyed left wing politics, it used to be about coal minors but now it’s about fighting for the the rights of a bloke to take a dump in women’s toilets.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2020 21:04:45 GMT
Can’t see the wood for the trees on Twitter for lefty bloggers counting lines from black actors. It’s a massive issue..... We know you can’t cant see the problem, this is precisely why you’ll continue to lose election after election, vote after vote, the cancerous identitarians have destroyed left wing politics, it used to be about coal minors but now it’s about fighting for the the rights of a bloke to take a dump in women’s toilets. Most of the problem seems to be in your head to be honest, they’re hardly burning issues. Generally people are just concerned with paying the bills, their mortgage, looking after their health. I won’t continue to lose election after election, you appear to be mistaking me for a Labour MP......
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 24, 2020 22:12:16 GMT
It’s important to keep calling them out because I believe they’re highly dangerous people, they’re giving young black and other minority people the impression that the Uk is systemically racist from top to bottom, this could demotivate a whole generation of minorities, because why bother trying if the deck is stacked against you due to skin colour ? Why bother trying ? ... But it’s isn’t, in 2020 Britain, minorities have the exact same opportunities as white people, we’re less racist now than in any time in history, we’re probably the least racist country the modern world has ever known! That’s why I fucking obsesses about these idiots on the left and they’re doing it to pump their own ego, pretending they’re fighting for social justice but it’s all self serving narcissism. I disagree with the left but respect the ones who’ve not embraced the faux social justice woke stuff ( I’ll use the term as much as I like, thanks) Admit it, you’ve literally started to use the word woke in the last week haven’t you? That's exactly why I hate it so much. Neither 'woke' or 'virtue signalling' were even in the Oxford dictionary 3 years ago and yet now, some people find it impossible to construct a sentence without using either term. I think people really don't realise how pretentious they actually sound when they use them. There's a school of thought, that anybody who uses the term "virtue signalling" are actually guilty of virtue signalling themselves the moment they do so. The English language was doing just fine as it is.
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Post by salopstick on Jan 24, 2020 22:34:19 GMT
Identity politics. The new tool of the left
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 24, 2020 22:38:42 GMT
Identity politics. The new tool of the left There's plenty tools in the left to chose from.
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Post by serpico on Jan 24, 2020 23:15:15 GMT
Identity politics. The new tool of the left A highly ineffective one, unless the aim is to push people to the right ?
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Post by serpico on Jan 24, 2020 23:30:24 GMT
Enjoying the WOKE meltdown on the other side of the pond over Joe Rogans comments re voting for Sanders. The WOKE crowd don’t like diversity of opinion, you must conform to the WOKE orthodoxy or be cast as a bigoted, racist, homophobic white supremacist, fascist pig!
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Post by salopstick on Jan 24, 2020 23:35:24 GMT
Identity politics. The new tool of the left A highly ineffective one, unless the aim is to push people to the right ? They just don’t realise it
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Post by felonious on Jan 25, 2020 3:16:40 GMT
A highly ineffective one, unless the aim is to push people to the right ? They just don’t realise it Stuck inside the Momentum echo chamber.
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Post by felonious on Jan 25, 2020 7:18:47 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 25, 2020 9:47:41 GMT
"However, sources within local parties are confident many if not most had joined to vote against the left-wing candidate, a reversal of what happened four years ago." That's exactly why my wife and I have rejoined. Ideally I'd like it to be Nandy but if I have to vote for Starmer in order to stop Long-Bailey, then that's what I'll do.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jan 25, 2020 10:18:44 GMT
"However, sources within local parties are confident many if not most had joined to vote against the left-wing candidate, a reversal of what happened four years ago." That's exactly why my wife and I have rejoined. Ideally I'd like it to be Nandy but if I have to vote for Starmer in order to stop Long-Bailey, then that's what I'll do. That just about sums up the current Labour Party If Starmer wins its not necessarily a vote for him it's a stop long Bailey vote If Starmers the answer God only knows what the question is labour are in a lot of trouble
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Post by felonious on Jan 25, 2020 13:02:45 GMT
"However, sources within local parties are confident many if not most had joined to vote against the left-wing candidate, a reversal of what happened four years ago." That's exactly why my wife and I have rejoined. Ideally I'd like it to be Nandy but if I have to vote for Starmer in order to stop Long-Bailey, then that's what I'll do. That just about sums up the current Labour Party If Starmer wins its not necessarily a vote for him it's a stop long Bailey vote If Starmers the answer God only knows what the question is labour are in a lot of trouble Labour never had the internal Brexit argument that the Conservatives had and they've yet to have the battle for the soul of the party. However wins there's going to be divisions and repercussions.
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Post by serpico on Jan 25, 2020 18:16:02 GMT
They just don’t realise it Stuck inside the Momentum echo chamber. Momentum are the maggots eating away at the dead Labour Party corpse, it’s over as a viable party, this is a bigger crisis than the one the Tories went through in the late 90s/00s.
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Post by felonious on Jan 25, 2020 18:28:38 GMT
"However, sources within local parties are confident many if not most had joined to vote against the left-wing candidate, a reversal of what happened four years ago." That's exactly why my wife and I have rejoined. Ideally I'd like it to be Nandy but if I have to vote for Starmer in order to stop Long-Bailey, then that's what I'll do. Why's it taken so long Paul for the moderates to rise to the challenge of taking the party back? I appreciate that no one would rock the boat while there was a chance of Labour winning the last two elections but with deselection threats and ongoing issues I'm amazed the fightback didn't start earlier.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 25, 2020 18:50:16 GMT
"However, sources within local parties are confident many if not most had joined to vote against the left-wing candidate, a reversal of what happened four years ago." That's exactly why my wife and I have rejoined. Ideally I'd like it to be Nandy but if I have to vote for Starmer in order to stop Long-Bailey, then that's what I'll do. Why's it taken so long Paul for the moderates to rise to the challenge of taking the party back? I appreciate that no one would rock the boat while there was a chance of Labour winning the last two elections but with deselection threats and ongoing issues I'm amazed the fightback didn't start earlier. I think it was always a case of time having to take it's course and ultimately Corbyn having to be been seen to have failed and until he did, the left of the party had become just too strong. The problem however, is that so many on the left (Rebecca 10/10 Long Bailey for one) don't even realise that Corbyn has even actually failed. As Serpico has said above, there's still a possibility that the party is finished ... my best mate is a Momentum member and he sees me and people like me, as extremists who are hell bent on ripping the party apart!
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Post by felonious on Jan 25, 2020 18:57:16 GMT
Why's it taken so long Paul for the moderates to rise to the challenge of taking the party back? I appreciate that no one would rock the boat while there was a chance of Labour winning the last two elections but with deselection threats and ongoing issues I'm amazed the fightback didn't start earlier. I think it was always a case of time having to take it's course and ultimately Corbyn having to be been seen to have failed and until he did, the left of the party had become just too strong. The problem however, is that so many on the left (Rebecca 10/10 Long Bailey for one) don't even realise that Corbyn has even actually failed. As Serpico has said above, there's still a possibility that the party is finished ... my best mate is a Momentum member and he sees me and people like me, as extremists who are hell bent on ripping the party apart! Funny old world where all but Momentum would see you as moderates. Kinnock rested the party away from the loony left before and if the unions have any sense and want Labour in power at some point they're going to have to come on board.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 25, 2020 19:44:19 GMT
Caroline Flint was a sad loss to Labour in my opinion and seems to echo a view on this thread...about Labour needing to actually listen to the actual voters....depending upon factors outside Labour's control such as some scandal / calamity hitting Boris or other world events the odds are on Labour becoming less and less relevant given the candidates on offer. www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/21/crushed-by-brexit-how-labour-lost-the-election. Or to put it simply....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 20:27:07 GMT
Why's it taken so long Paul for the moderates to rise to the challenge of taking the party back? I appreciate that no one would rock the boat while there was a chance of Labour winning the last two elections but with deselection threats and ongoing issues I'm amazed the fightback didn't start earlier. I think it was always a case of time having to take it's course and ultimately Corbyn having to be been seen to have failed and until he did, the left of the party had become just too strong. The problem however, is that so many on the left (Rebecca 10/10 Long Bailey for one) don't even realise that Corbyn has even actually failed. As Serpico has said above, there's still a possibility that the party is finished ... my best mate is a Momentum member and he sees me and people like me, as extremists who are hell bent on ripping the party apart! The problem is when people talk about the left taking over the party and failing is that they generally fail to acknowledge that Labour at the end of Blair's tenure were at rock bottom, decimated in Scotland, members leaving in their droves, share of the votes in Labour heartlands falling even before Brexit was a thing. And two disastrous campaigns under Brown and Miliband. Momentum and the left get criticised despite the so-called moderates in the party staging a coup, and generally undermining Corbyn at every opportunity. There's lots of debates to be had about the state of the Labour Party, but there's also a lot of re-writing of history.....
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Post by lordb on Jan 25, 2020 20:27:40 GMT
Labour should beg David Milliband to come back
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 25, 2020 20:43:39 GMT
I think it was always a case of time having to take it's course and ultimately Corbyn having to be been seen to have failed and until he did, the left of the party had become just too strong. The problem however, is that so many on the left (Rebecca 10/10 Long Bailey for one) don't even realise that Corbyn has even actually failed. As Serpico has said above, there's still a possibility that the party is finished ... my best mate is a Momentum member and he sees me and people like me, as extremists who are hell bent on ripping the party apart! The problem is when people talk about the left taking over the party and failing is that they generally fail to acknowledge that Labour at the end of Blair's tenure were at rock bottom, decimated in Scotland, members leaving in their droves, share of the votes in Labour heartlands falling even before Brexit was a thing. And two disastrous campaigns under Brown and Miliband. Momentum and the left get criticised despite the so-called moderates in the party staging a coup, and generally undermining Corbyn at every opportunity. There's lots of debates to be had about the state of the Labour Party, but there's also a lot of re-writing of history..... Davison (a Marxist) 's explanation, perfectly describes where I'm at. medium.com/@up726951/why-im-voting-for-lisa-nandy-to-be-labour-s-next-leader-42f3106da745
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Post by serpico on Jan 25, 2020 20:45:31 GMT
Labour went from a party with a leader who did headers with keegan on the campaign trail to one who states his preferred pronouns in interviews, that’s how far wrong they went, imo they need a faragian type leader not another leader who sounds like they’re perpetually stuck in the 6th form common room.
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Post by salopstick on Jan 25, 2020 20:46:31 GMT
"However, sources within local parties are confident many if not most had joined to vote against the left-wing candidate, a reversal of what happened four years ago." That's exactly why my wife and I have rejoined. Ideally I'd like it to be Nandy but if I have to vote for Starmer in order to stop Long-Bailey, then that's what I'll do. Why's it taken so long Paul for the moderates to rise to the challenge of taking the party back? I appreciate that no one would rock the boat while there was a chance of Labour winning the last two elections but with deselection threats and ongoing issues I'm amazed the fightback didn't start earlier. There was never a chance of Corbyn winning the election
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Post by felonious on Jan 25, 2020 20:54:03 GMT
Why's it taken so long Paul for the moderates to rise to the challenge of taking the party back? I appreciate that no one would rock the boat while there was a chance of Labour winning the last two elections but with deselection threats and ongoing issues I'm amazed the fightback didn't start earlier. There was never a chance of Corbyn winning the election There was a massive surge in Labour votes in 2017 which had the effect of keeping Corbyn's opponents quiet. Set this against the backdop of May's disastrous reign and the continuing Brexit situation who was to know within the Labour party that 2019 would be so disastrous almost to the bitter end?
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Post by salopstick on Jan 25, 2020 21:05:28 GMT
There was never a chance of Corbyn winning the election There was a massive surge in Labour votes in 2017 which had the effect of keeping Corbyn's opponents quiet. Set this against the backdop of May's disastrous reign and the continuing Brexit situation who was to know within the Labour party that 2019 would be so disastrous almost to the bitter end? Like Paul said of rewriting history people forget Theresa May got one of the biggest Tory vote share in years and was up to 42% from the 36% in 2015. Does not excuse her poor show as PM Corbyn had the momentum pun intended of momentum, remainers etc but it was sold on a false promise of “we will implement brexit, albeit our version of it” This promise was repeatedly undermined at every opportunity. Had Corbyn had his “neutral on Brexit” policy as he did last time then his gains would not have been nearly as high. Corbyn’s flip flop position on Brexit is the sole reason why he isn’t sat in number 10 now
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 21:08:49 GMT
Why's it taken so long Paul for the moderates to rise to the challenge of taking the party back? I appreciate that no one would rock the boat while there was a chance of Labour winning the last two elections but with deselection threats and ongoing issues I'm amazed the fightback didn't start earlier. There was never a chance of Corbyn winning the election Not winning outright in 2017, but only 2,000 odd votes away in key marginals from being able to form a government.....
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Post by lordb on Jan 25, 2020 21:13:26 GMT
There was a massive surge in Labour votes in 2017 which had the effect of keeping Corbyn's opponents quiet. Set this against the backdop of May's disastrous reign and the continuing Brexit situation who was to know within the Labour party that 2019 would be so disastrous almost to the bitter end? Like Paul said of rewriting history people forget Theresa May got one of the biggest Tory vote share in years and was up to 42% from the 36% in 2015. Does not excuse her poor show as PM Corbyn had the momentum pun intended of momentum, remainers etc but it was sold on a false promise of “we will implement brexit, albeit our version of it” This promise was repeatedly undermined at every opportunity. Had Corbyn had his “neutral on Brexit” policy as he did last time then his gains would not have been nearly as high. Corbyn’s flip flop position on Brexit is the sole reason why he isn’t sat in number 10 now Don't forget the Lib Dem erosion of votes after the coalition. For all the focus on Labour the Lib Dems look genuinely on the brink of extinction
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 21:15:00 GMT
The problem is when people talk about the left taking over the party and failing is that they generally fail to acknowledge that Labour at the end of Blair's tenure were at rock bottom, decimated in Scotland, members leaving in their droves, share of the votes in Labour heartlands falling even before Brexit was a thing. And two disastrous campaigns under Brown and Miliband. Momentum and the left get criticised despite the so-called moderates in the party staging a coup, and generally undermining Corbyn at every opportunity. There's lots of debates to be had about the state of the Labour Party, but there's also a lot of re-writing of history..... Davison (a Marxist) 's explanation, perfectly describes where I'm at. medium.com/@up726951/why-im-voting-for-lisa-nandy-to-be-labour-s-next-leader-42f3106da745Nandy would certainly be preferable to Starmer...
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