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Post by Gods on Dec 9, 2019 17:51:58 GMT
With Corbyn seemingly dead in the water I was checking the odds to see who might lead the fight back if you like.
Keir Starmer and Rebecca Long-Bailey joint favourites at 3/1 and Angela Rayner a distant third place at 9/1.
It's going to be heavy lifting for whoever it is. Got to get more power back in the hands of the MP's who face off to the public at large and wrestle it back from the party fanatics who do not. If they don't I can't see any way forward for them.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 9, 2019 18:11:26 GMT
Starmer is a prodigy of Blair.
I don’t mind Hilary Benn and despite the background of privilege Kinnock sometimes speaks well.
I’ve got a feeling they may try and shoehorn their best woman however sexism aside I don’t think they have any great female candidates
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 18:16:54 GMT
Long-Bailey speaks well, and sticks to the left enough for me to think she'd be an astute appointment.
Starmer speaks well too but as Salop says above, a bit too central for me.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Dec 9, 2019 18:56:17 GMT
The under 45's overwhelming support tax justice, redistributive and environmental policies. Anyone who takes over is going to need to continue this. New voters will continue to care about these issues and Tory voters will be dying off. The demographics look shocking for the Tories going forward. They'll be lucky to get into power for a generation who ever it is without become Labour lite.
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Post by yeokel on Dec 9, 2019 19:10:18 GMT
The under 45's overwhelming support tax justice, redistributive and environmental policies. Anyone who takes over is going to need to continue this. New voters will continue to care about these issues and Tory voters will be dying off. The demographics look shocking for the Tories going forward. They'll be lucky to get into power for a generation who ever it is without become Labour lite. “......and Tory voters will be dying off. The demographics look shocking for the Tories going forward.” I think people have been saying that for about the past 200 years but somehow or other people keep getting older and turning into Tories.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Dec 9, 2019 19:18:06 GMT
The under 45's overwhelming support tax justice, redistributive and environmental policies. Anyone who takes over is going to need to continue this. New voters will continue to care about these issues and Tory voters will be dying off. The demographics look shocking for the Tories going forward. They'll be lucky to get into power for a generation who ever it is without become Labour lite. “......and Tory voters will be dying off. The demographics look shocking for the Tories going forward.” I think people have been saying that for about the past 200 years but somehow or other people keep getting older and turning into Tories. It's never looked like this. It's no longer about changing economic priorities and not wanting society to change. Policy priorities are at 180 over a lifetime. On top of that young people just dont consume conventional media in the same way. It cant be controlled. I dont believe the Tories can change this rapidly. Their social and environmental policies will have to change so much as to be unrecognisable. Maybe they can do it, but I dont see where the money or members are coming from.
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Post by claytonscrubs on Dec 9, 2019 19:19:06 GMT
I think McDonnell is trying to groom the establishment into accepting him as the next Labour leader. A lot of things he has said on the EU etc are completely different to what he was saying a few years ago.
My money’s on Starmer or Wrong-Daily with her painted on eyebrows.
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Post by algor on Dec 9, 2019 19:19:47 GMT
The under 45's overwhelming support tax justice, redistributive and environmental policies. Anyone who takes over is going to need to continue this. New voters will continue to care about these issues and Tory voters will be dying off. The demographics look shocking for the Tories going forward. They'll be lucky to get into power for a generation who ever it is without become Labour lite. People have being saying this for decades. The problem with your argument is that people don't remain under 45, they grow older and as they do their views become well.... more conservative. It tends to happen before the age 45 to. As for the Labour party, they have to shake off the momentum shackles before they can really appeal to a majority again.
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Post by serpico on Dec 9, 2019 19:28:53 GMT
The under 45's overwhelming support tax justice, redistributive and environmental policies. Anyone who takes over is going to need to continue this. New voters will continue to care about these issues and Tory voters will be dying off. The demographics look shocking for the Tories going forward. They'll be lucky to get into power for a generation who ever it is without become Labour lite. people generally become more conservative as they get older, political beliefs aren't static, i used to read chomsky when i was in my early 20s and buy into all the usual lefty laundry list of mostly bullshit, early 20s me would vote for Corbyn in a heartbeat, by my late 20s i was reading Hayek and was much more conservative/libertarian in my thinking, people change, not always, but quite often.
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 9, 2019 19:34:29 GMT
With Corbyn seemingly dead in the water I was checking the odds to see who might lead the fight back if you like. Keir Starmer and Rebecca Long-Bailey joint favourites at 3/1 and Angela Rayner a distant third place at 9/1. It's going to be heavy lifting for whoever it is. Got to get more power back in the hands of the MP's who face off to the public at large and wrestle it back from the party fanatics who do not. If they don't I can't see any way forward for them. Before you rush down the bookies and stick ten Bob on I'd wait until Friday morning and see who survives the cull
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Post by ColonelMustard on Dec 9, 2019 19:34:59 GMT
The under 45's overwhelming support tax justice, redistributive and environmental policies. Anyone who takes over is going to need to continue this. New voters will continue to care about these issues and Tory voters will be dying off. The demographics look shocking for the Tories going forward. They'll be lucky to get into power for a generation who ever it is without become Labour lite. people generally become more conservative as they get older, political beliefs aren't static, i used to read chomsky when i was in my early 20s and buy into all the usual lefty laundry list of mostly bullshit, early 20s me would vote for Corbyn in a heartbeat, by my late 20s i was reading Hayek and was much more conservative/libertarian in my thinking, people change, not always, but quite often. And the conservative party changes to meet them halfway. But it's going to take more than going from section 28 to gay marriage in 20 years. Its going to be huge policy 180s in 4-8 years. And in that time span they risk alienating their current members/ funders. Fwiw I've slowly gone farther toward a belief in a sharing economy. I'm 47 and greener and more redistributive than ever.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 9, 2019 19:40:09 GMT
The under 45's overwhelming support tax justice, redistributive and environmental policies. Anyone who takes over is going to need to continue this. New voters will continue to care about these issues and Tory voters will be dying off. The demographics look shocking for the Tories going forward. They'll be lucky to get into power for a generation who ever it is without become Labour lite. people generally become more conservative as they get older, political beliefs aren't static, i used to read chomsky when i was in my early 20s and buy into all the usual lefty laundry list of mostly bullshit, early 20s me would vote for Corbyn in a heartbeat, by my late 20s i was reading Hayek and was much more conservative/libertarian in my thinking, people change, not always, but quite often. Sad fuck that I am, I watch old political debate shows like Firing Line, and these left-right debates are nothing new. The one thing that has changed is the left representatives are far less articulate than Chomsky. In fairness, not many on the right hold a candle to William F. Buckley. I have had the same kind of experience as you. I once voted for Michael Foot.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 9, 2019 19:41:27 GMT
people generally become more conservative as they get older, political beliefs aren't static, i used to read chomsky when i was in my early 20s and buy into all the usual lefty laundry list of mostly bullshit, early 20s me would vote for Corbyn in a heartbeat, by my late 20s i was reading Hayek and was much more conservative/libertarian in my thinking, people change, not always, but quite often. And the conservative party changes to meet them halfway. But it's going to take more than going from section 28 to gay marriage in 20 years. Its going to be huge policy 180s in 4-8 years. And in that time span they risk alienating their current members/ funders. Fwiw I've slowly gone farther toward a belief in a sharing economy. I'm 47 and greener and more redistributive than ever. Can you spare me a tenner? 😜
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Post by algor on Dec 9, 2019 19:43:04 GMT
“......and Tory voters will be dying off. The demographics look shocking for the Tories going forward.” I think people have been saying that for about the past 200 years but somehow or other people keep getting older and turning into Tories. It's never looked like this. It's no longer about changing economic priorities and not wanting society to change. Policy priorities are at 180 over a lifetime. On top of that young people just dont consume conventional media in the same way. It cant be controlled. I dont believe the Tories can change this rapidly. Their social and environmental policies will have to change so much as to be unrecognisable. Maybe they can do it, but I dont see where the money or members are coming from. This is just wishful thinking on your behalf. You think that the media are Tory bias, guess what Tory's think it is Labour biased, the truth is they are somewhere in between. You are also working on the premise that people only form an opinion based on media, they don't and even if they did social media which I think is what you are alluding to isn't only the domain of the left!
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 9, 2019 19:46:14 GMT
Starmer is a prodigy of Blair. I don’t mind Hilary Benn and despite the background of privilege Kinnock sometimes speaks well. I’ve got a feeling they may try and shoehorn their best woman however sexism aside I don’t think they have any great female candidates I think Kinnock has come out of the Brexit debate quite well. Can't do with Benn, preferred his dad.
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 9, 2019 19:51:06 GMT
people generally become more conservative as they get older, political beliefs aren't static, i used to read chomsky when i was in my early 20s and buy into all the usual lefty laundry list of mostly bullshit, early 20s me would vote for Corbyn in a heartbeat, by my late 20s i was reading Hayek and was much more conservative/libertarian in my thinking, people change, not always, but quite often. Sad fuck that I am, I watch old political debate shows like Firing Line, and these left-right debates are nothing new. The one thing that has changed is the left representatives are far less articulate than Chomsky. In fairness, not many on the right hold a candle to William F. Buckley. I have had the same kind of experience as you. I once voted for Michael Foot. What was that for donkey jacket of the year award
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Post by serpico on Dec 9, 2019 19:51:34 GMT
people generally become more conservative as they get older, political beliefs aren't static, i used to read chomsky when i was in my early 20s and buy into all the usual lefty laundry list of mostly bullshit, early 20s me would vote for Corbyn in a heartbeat, by my late 20s i was reading Hayek and was much more conservative/libertarian in my thinking, people change, not always, but quite often. Sad fuck that I am, I watch old political debate shows like Firing Line, and these left-right debates are nothing new. The one thing that has changed is the left representatives are far less articulate than Chomsky. In fairness, not many on the right hold a candle to William F. Buckley. I have had the same kind of experience as you. I once voted for Michael Foot. ah yes, im pretty sure chomsky is one of the guests he threatened to "sock in the mouth"
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 9, 2019 19:51:37 GMT
Starmer is a prodigy of Blair. I don’t mind Hilary Benn and despite the background of privilege Kinnock sometimes speaks well. I’ve got a feeling they may try and shoehorn their best woman however sexism aside I don’t think they have any great female candidates I propose Dianne Abbott any one care to second that motion brothers.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 9, 2019 19:55:21 GMT
Sad fuck that I am, I watch old political debate shows like Firing Line, and these left-right debates are nothing new. The one thing that has changed is the left representatives are far less articulate than Chomsky. In fairness, not many on the right hold a candle to William F. Buckley. I have had the same kind of experience as you. I once voted for Michael Foot. ah yes, im pretty sure chomsky is one of the guests he threatened to "sock in the mouth" Jokingly, yes. Gore Vidal not so much! 😁
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Post by ColonelMustard on Dec 9, 2019 19:55:36 GMT
It's never looked like this. It's no longer about changing economic priorities and not wanting society to change. Policy priorities are at 180 over a lifetime. On top of that young people just dont consume conventional media in the same way. It cant be controlled. I dont believe the Tories can change this rapidly. Their social and environmental policies will have to change so much as to be unrecognisable. Maybe they can do it, but I dont see where the money or members are coming from. This is just wishful thinking on your behalf. You think that the media are Tory bias, guess what Tory's think it is Labour biased, the truth is they are somewhere in between. You are also working on the premise that people only form an opinion based on media, they don't and even if they did social media which I think is what you are alluding to isn't only the domain of the left! If you think print is evenly balanced you just need to look at ownership. Mostly non dom tax avoiders who support the Tories to support their lifestyles. That the revolving door of the press world means if you ever want a job in Murdoch press you are better towing a certain line, it has an effect elsewhere too. And I'm not alluding to social media being only of the left, I'm talking about print and TV being prominently of the older. It's not only me thinking this, I have friends in the Tory Party who are terrified of this and that the party machine is ill equipped to adjust. We will see.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 9, 2019 19:57:27 GMT
I think McDonnell is trying to groom the establishment into accepting him as the next Labour leader. A lot of things he has said on the EU etc are completely different to what he was saying a few years ago. My money’s on Starmer or Wrong-Daily with her painted on eyebrows. Is that the McDonut who openly declared himself a Marxist, then changed his mind he seems to make a habit of turning chameleon when the predators come after him, Wrong -Daily for me it has to be a natural progression and the one closest to Granpa Racist is his...............ermmm Home Secretary in waiting a fellow Marxist and racist.
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Post by claytonscrubs on Dec 9, 2019 20:02:19 GMT
Starmer is a prodigy of Blair. I don’t mind Hilary Benn and despite the background of privilege Kinnock sometimes speaks well. I’ve got a feeling they may try and shoehorn their best woman however sexism aside I don’t think they have any great female candidates I propose Dianne Abbott any one care to second that motion brothers. Seconded. With Lammy as Deputy Leader 😀
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 9, 2019 20:06:47 GMT
I propose Dianne Abbott any one care to second that motion brothers. Seconded. With Lammy as Deputy Leader 😀 Shall we all vote on this proposal then, postal votes accepted in fact encouraged especially from our esteemed and trustworthy brothers in Peterborough.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 20:06:53 GMT
I propose Dianne Abbott any one care to second that motion brothers. Seconded. With Lammy as Deputy Leader 😀 Dream Team !
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Post by vokeswagen on Dec 9, 2019 20:08:17 GMT
I think McDonnell is trying to groom the establishment into accepting him as the next Labour leader. A lot of things he has said on the EU etc are completely different to what he was saying a few years ago. My money’s on Starmer or Wrong-Daily with her painted on eyebrows. Is that the McDonut who openly declared himself a Marxist, then changed his mind he seems to make a habit of turning chameleon when the predators come after him, Wrong -Daily for me it has to be a natural progression and the one closest to Granpa Racist is his...............ermmm Home Secretary in waiting a fellow Marxist and racist. If it's a racist you feel is needed, why not chuck your fedora in the ring carps? Few people are more qualified than you on that front
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Post by serpico on Dec 9, 2019 20:11:57 GMT
Might be a better idea to dissolve the party and let a new one replace it, Blair killed labour, its been zombified ever since, Corbyns revolution within the form has been disastrous. the Tories are not far behind it in the zombie stakes but at least they're winning elections, so i suppose it will carry on
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 9, 2019 20:13:41 GMT
Seconded. With Lammy as Deputy Leader 😀 Dream Team ! Nightmare on Downing street.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 9, 2019 20:13:58 GMT
Are we totally writing Labour off? I'm not so sure.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 9, 2019 20:29:24 GMT
Are we totally writing Labour off? I'm not so sure. No I think there is a danger some are jumping the gun excuse the pun, I am counting on Jezza pulling this out of the hat that £40k WASPI windfall will come in handy it will be close possibly even a hung Parliament or an SNPlabrador pact.
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Post by franklin66 on Dec 9, 2019 20:32:47 GMT
Are we totally writing Labour off? I'm not so sure. I am TD they are completely off their rockers.
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