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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 13, 2019 20:30:14 GMT
Michael O'Neil has said that Etebo has been short in training and he's partially explained the reasons behind Badou's inclusion. Granted his comments about younger players, runners and athleticism are seemingly at odds with his views on what he wants from his team as Badou and Etebo seem to offer those things. There is more evidence to suggest that their willingness to train hard and to take on board what O'Neil wants for them than there is to suggest that the manager simply doesn't rate them or won't play them because they'll be leaving. It is the managers call and he will live or die by those decisions. He sees them every day in training and he has to make the ultimate decision on how to cull this current squad which is long overdue culling. At the end of the day, I don't care who goes out of this current squad. I'd sell every last one of them if O'Neil could get in a replacement. The crux of this is that Foxysgloves is prepared to give the manager his trust and be supportive of any and all changes that he wishes to make whereas you clearly aren't. You are a sceptic, unsure of O'Neil's credentials and ability to undertake the massive job that he has on his hands and you are using his omission of Badou and Etebo, who you perceive to be our better players, to back up your views. I really don't care who he leaves out or ostracises. They are all shit and the sooner the vast majority of them are out of our club the better we will be for it. Bullshit Dave, there’s no need to have a set agenda on O’Neill either way this early and I don’t have one. I call it as I see it and give credit where I think it’s due and criticism/questioning when I think that’s true too. How has he ‘partially explained’ the Badou situation? All he’s said is he’s had flu. Before that he said he didn’t see him as a DM and he criticised his performance at Cardiff despite him being the best Stoke midfielder in that game. I didn't think he was the best midfielder on show at cardiff. I thought he was very poor. I'm pretty sure n'zonzi is the best player at galatasaray. They've just suspended him indefinitely Do you read nothing at all into his "honesty and hard work" comments? Edit - and when etebo has played this season, hes been a shadow of what we've seen before in my opinion. Tiredness, injury? Who knows but whatever the reason hes not been very good.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 20:37:48 GMT
Bullshit Dave, there’s no need to have a set agenda on O’Neill either way this early and I don’t have one. I call it as I see it and give credit where I think it’s due and criticism/questioning when I think that’s true too. How has he ‘partially explained’ the Badou situation? All he’s said is he’s had flu. Before that he said he didn’t see him as a DM and he criticised his performance at Cardiff despite him being the best Stoke midfielder in that game. I didn't think he was the best midfielder on show at cardiff. I thought he was very poor. I'm pretty sure n'zonzi is the best player at galatasaray. They've just suspended him indefinitely Do you read nothing at all into his "honesty and hard work" comments? Edit - and when etebo has played this season, hes been a shadow of what we've seen before in my opinion. Tiredness, injury? Who knows but whatever the reason hes not been very good. Which central midfielder was better than him at Cardiff? Allen was a dog with a balloon. Woods was the worst of the lot. They combined to gift them the only goal of the game. I don’t know what your point is re Nzonzi? There’s been no suggestion we know of that Ndiaye’s attitude has been poor this season. There’s been more evidence surrounding Woods’ attitude, yet he walked back in immediately. Etebo’s been better than Allen and Woods.
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Post by iglugluk on Dec 13, 2019 21:14:23 GMT
The only midfielder who did anything in Cardiff was N'Diaye.. a mazy run in their box which was the closest we came to a goal all night. To be honest I thought the whole team looked poor, him included that night, but at least he did something I guess.
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 13, 2019 21:29:59 GMT
With all due respect I think O’Neill is probably a better judge of a professional footballer than you or I given that: a) he’s done pretty well as a football manager thus far b) he’s seen far more of the players in question than we have. Even given his short tenure. c) he’s had conversations with the players, interacted with them and seen them both on the pitch and off it, rather than watching them from the stands. On a different note, they’re decent players. But no more. Both at times look international class but are equally likely to go missing or be wasteful in possession. If we can shift them for a reasonable amount and get in the type of player that O’Neill seems able to field in his NI sides (hungry, dedicated, disciplined etc) then I’m all over it. That sounds a bit like the ‘how many caps have you got then’ argument Foxy - every manager sees more of the players than we do, can none of them be questioned? He seemed to think Clucas, Allen and Woods was a workable trio, that’s what I find worrying. Etebo and Ndiaye have been disciplined and dedicated when they’ve worn the shirt, I don’t get how they haven’t? It was always a possibility they’d be off in Jan but we’re not going to get a good fee if they’re out of the side. I don’t have a problem with them being sold, just with them being sidelined while we play inferior players and keep losing. Of course they can be questioned. As Rowett, Jones, Hughes, Pulis etc were. Frequently. The difference being O’Neill has barely been at the club. In that brief time he’s won 3 games and we’ve seen a Stoke side that seems to have remembered how to score goals. Stopping them going in remains an issue but a clean sheet against an admittedly woeful Luton is a start. Maybe it’s just me but I think he deserves at least a chance to show if he’s up to it or not. He’s inherited a squad of average to substandard players with the mental fortitude of a bag of Quavers. A club as rotten as ours isn’t going to be turned around without bruising a few egos.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 21:45:38 GMT
That sounds a bit like the ‘how many caps have you got then’ argument Foxy - every manager sees more of the players than we do, can none of them be questioned? He seemed to think Clucas, Allen and Woods was a workable trio, that’s what I find worrying. Etebo and Ndiaye have been disciplined and dedicated when they’ve worn the shirt, I don’t get how they haven’t? It was always a possibility they’d be off in Jan but we’re not going to get a good fee if they’re out of the side. I don’t have a problem with them being sold, just with them being sidelined while we play inferior players and keep losing. Of course they can be questioned. As Rowett, Jones, Hughes, Pulis etc were. Frequently. The difference being O’Neill has barely been at the club. In that brief time he’s won 3 games and we’ve seen a Stoke side that seems to have remembered how to score goals. Stopping them going in remains an issue but a clean sheet against an admittedly woeful Luton is a start. Maybe it’s just me but I think he deserves at least a chance to show if he’s up to it or not. He’s inherited a squad of average to substandard players with the mental fortitude of a bag of Quavers. A club as rotten as ours isn’t going to be turned around without bruising a few egos. He deserves a chance and he’s getting one. No manager deserves a completely free pass devoid of questioning, least of all one in our position.
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 13, 2019 21:50:34 GMT
Of course they can be questioned. As Rowett, Jones, Hughes, Pulis etc were. Frequently. The difference being O’Neill has barely been at the club. In that brief time he’s won 3 games and we’ve seen a Stoke side that seems to have remembered how to score goals. Stopping them going in remains an issue but a clean sheet against an admittedly woeful Luton is a start. Maybe it’s just me but I think he deserves at least a chance to show if he’s up to it or not. He’s inherited a squad of average to substandard players with the mental fortitude of a bag of Quavers. A club as rotten as ours isn’t going to be turned around without bruising a few egos. He deserves a chance and he’s getting one. No manager deserves a completely free pass devoid of questioning, least of all one in our position. This is you giving him a chance?!? I’d hate to see you sticking the boot in 😂😂😂
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 13, 2019 21:51:52 GMT
He deserves a chance and he’s getting one. No manager deserves a completely free pass devoid of questioning, least of all one in our position. This is you giving him a chance?!? I’d hate to see you sticking the boot in 😂😂😂 Again, I’ve given credit where it’s due and questioned where I think it’s due. We’re in the shit and we don’t have time for a honeymoon period, especially when he’s made odd decisions like this.
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Post by royalewithcheese on Dec 13, 2019 22:13:18 GMT
Bullshit Dave, there’s no need to have a set agenda on O’Neill either way this early and I don’t have one. I call it as I see it and give credit where I think it’s due and criticism/questioning when I think that’s true too. How has he ‘partially explained’ the Badou situation? All he’s said is he’s had flu. Before that he said he didn’t see him as a DM and he criticised his performance at Cardiff despite him being the best Stoke midfielder in that game. I didn't think he was the best midfielder on show at cardiff. I thought he was very poor. I'm pretty sure n'zonzi is the best player at galatasaray. They've just suspended him indefinitely Do you read nothing at all into his "honesty and hard work" comments? Edit - and when etebo has played this season, hes been a shadow of what we've seen before in my opinion. Tiredness, injury? Who knows but whatever the reason hes not been very good. Ndiaye wasnt our best midfielder against Cardiff. He was the best player on the pitch. By some distance.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 13, 2019 22:30:42 GMT
I didn't think he was the best midfielder on show at cardiff. I thought he was very poor. I'm pretty sure n'zonzi is the best player at galatasaray. They've just suspended him indefinitely Do you read nothing at all into his "honesty and hard work" comments? Edit - and when etebo has played this season, hes been a shadow of what we've seen before in my opinion. Tiredness, injury? Who knows but whatever the reason hes not been very good. Which central midfielder was better than him at Cardiff? Allen was a dog with a balloon. Woods was the worst of the lot. They combined to gift them the only goal of the game. I don’t know what your point is re Nzonzi? There’s been no suggestion we know of that Ndiaye’s attitude has been poor this season. There’s been more evidence surrounding Woods’ attitude, yet he walked back in immediately. Etebo’s been better than Allen and Woods. This season hes been as poor as the rest of them. At least allen and woods have had the odd decent game (and I cant stand either of them, woods in particular). If they arent showing the right levels of application or are unreceptive to a new manager, then so be it. Were I the manager, etebo wouldn't be featuring in my team after his twitter outburst, regardless of how good he may or may not be.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 14, 2019 8:46:32 GMT
Which central midfielder was better than him at Cardiff? Allen was a dog with a balloon. Woods was the worst of the lot. They combined to gift them the only goal of the game. I don’t know what your point is re Nzonzi? There’s been no suggestion we know of that Ndiaye’s attitude has been poor this season. There’s been more evidence surrounding Woods’ attitude, yet he walked back in immediately. Etebo’s been better than Allen and Woods. This season hes been as poor as the rest of them. At least allen and woods have had the odd decent game (and I cant stand either of them, woods in particular). If they arent showing the right levels of application or are unreceptive to a new manager, then so be it. Were I the manager, etebo wouldn't be featuring in my team after his twitter outburst, regardless of how good he may or may not be. It was hardly an ‘outburst’ was it? And what about Ndiaye? Etebo has had at least as many good games and fewer outright bad ones than Woods or Allen. It seems that the new manager is ‘unreceptive’ to them if anything.
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Post by robwahlmann on Dec 14, 2019 9:21:52 GMT
I'd have both on the bench today, they probably are our two best midfielders after all! Etebo needs some minutes, but probably not from the start. Badou is also a very good alternative as soon as Allen or Clucas start to tire.
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Post by biglad180 on Dec 14, 2019 9:50:13 GMT
we need both playing. remember we played a shit team in luton in the week.we will not keep getting results with the team we put out against them. also i would start mama up front. but thats only my opinion.
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Post by robwahlmann on Dec 14, 2019 10:01:08 GMT
we need both playing. remember we played a shit team in luton in the week.we will not keep getting results with the team we put out against them. also i would start mama up front. but thats only my opinion. Reading is really a shit team too as most teams in this division are!
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 14, 2019 11:18:55 GMT
This season hes been as poor as the rest of them. At least allen and woods have had the odd decent game (and I cant stand either of them, woods in particular). If they arent showing the right levels of application or are unreceptive to a new manager, then so be it. Were I the manager, etebo wouldn't be featuring in my team after his twitter outburst, regardless of how good he may or may not be. It was hardly an ‘outburst’ was it? And what about Ndiaye? Etebo has had at least as many good games and fewer outright bad ones than Woods or Allen. It seems that the new manager is ‘unreceptive’ to them if anything. It was unprofessional and disrespectful to his manager teammates and club and perhaps that's why the manager is 'unreceptive' to him.
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Post by royalewithcheese on Dec 14, 2019 11:36:47 GMT
It was hardly an ‘outburst’ was it? And what about Ndiaye? Etebo has had at least as many good games and fewer outright bad ones than Woods or Allen. It seems that the new manager is ‘unreceptive’ to them if anything. It was unprofessional and disrespectful to his manager teammates and club and perhaps that's why the manager is 'unreceptive' to him. You're embarrassing yourself here, Dave.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 14, 2019 11:44:56 GMT
It was hardly an ‘outburst’ was it? And what about Ndiaye? Etebo has had at least as many good games and fewer outright bad ones than Woods or Allen. It seems that the new manager is ‘unreceptive’ to them if anything. It was unprofessional and disrespectful to his manager teammates and club and perhaps that's why the manager is 'unreceptive' to him. All he said was that he wasn't injured and he backs himself.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Dec 14, 2019 14:04:57 GMT
Both out of the team again. We ain't seeing these two in a Stoke shirt again.
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Post by royalewithcheese on Dec 14, 2019 14:06:49 GMT
Both out of the team again. We ain't seeing these two in a Stoke shirt again. 😥😢😥😢😥😢
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Post by robwahlmann on Dec 14, 2019 14:07:06 GMT
Both out of the team again. We ain't seeing these two in a Stoke shirt again. I think you're right, they're both off in January.
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Post by sportsman on Dec 14, 2019 14:07:29 GMT
Both out of the team again. We ain't seeing these two in a Stoke shirt again. Come on boys. It's not rocket science. They're both fucking off in January. Bow many times do you have to be told?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 14:08:42 GMT
O’Neill is no mug, if they’re not in the squad I would assume it’s because their attitude in training or as a whole is not to his liking.
If that’s the case I have no problem with that, we need eleven team players......
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 14, 2019 14:13:21 GMT
Both out of the team again. We ain't seeing these two in a Stoke shirt again. Come on boys. It's not rocket science. They're both fucking off in January. Bow many times do you have to be told? So do we not want a decent fee for them then?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 14, 2019 14:43:07 GMT
O’Neill is no mug, if they’re not in the squad I would assume it’s because their attitude in training or as a whole is not to his liking. If that’s the case I have no problem with that, we need eleven team players...... What if it’s not the case? They’ve been team players when they’ve played this season haven’t they?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 14:45:39 GMT
I couldn't think of a decision I wanted our new manager to make less than the ostracising of the only two premier league quality players we have.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 14, 2019 17:30:27 GMT
It was unprofessional and disrespectful to his manager teammates and club and perhaps that's why the manager is 'unreceptive' to him. All he said was that he wasn't injured and he backs himself. And liked a post saying etebo in, o'Neil out. Hes a shister like the rest of the tossers.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 14, 2019 17:31:37 GMT
O’Neill is no mug, if they’re not in the squad I would assume it’s because their attitude in training or as a whole is not to his liking. If that’s the case I have no problem with that, we need eleven team players...... What if it’s not the case? They’ve been team players when they’ve played this season haven’t they? Point me to a good game etebo has had this season please. I cant remember one.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 17:33:36 GMT
I haven’t fabricated anything. I’m basing things on the evidence. Or lack thereof. Based on on-field performances, there’s no questioning either player’s commitment. Just because they may be looking for moves hasn’t stopped them giving everything for the cause. This season, there have been significantly more questions over Ryan Woods’ attitude than either Etebo’s or Ndiaye’s, yet he was immediately restored to the team? You’re basing it on what you’ve see in matches. So you’re saying training doesn’t matter? The manager should base his selection exclusively on how players play in matches? He is basing it on nothing at all. He likes to pretend that everything that he posts is "based" on something. I just ignore him now - he is like a stuck record.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 14, 2019 17:39:33 GMT
You’re basing it on what you’ve see in matches. So you’re saying training doesn’t matter? The manager should base his selection exclusively on how players play in matches? He is basing it on nothing at all. He likes to pretend that everything that he posts is "based" on something. I just ignore him now - he is like a stuck record. I’m basing it on their performances on the pitch.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 14, 2019 17:43:41 GMT
What if it’s not the case? They’ve been team players when they’ve played this season haven’t they? Point me to a good game etebo has had this season please. I cant remember one. Swansea.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 14, 2019 17:50:22 GMT
Point me to a good game etebo has had this season please. I cant remember one. Swansea. Typical. The only game I haven't seen this season. Any others?
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