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Post by tosh on Nov 5, 2019 14:25:56 GMT
The average over all the leagues for penalties saved by goalkeepers is nearly 20%, or 1 in 5. Butland’s 1 in 38 must be down to more than bad luck!
With stats like that you would think he would try something different. Butland keeps doing the same thing and keeps getting the same results. I imagine his “technique” is now well known and opposition players are advised to wait for him to commit before directing the ball.
It is doubtful if more than 50% of penalties are “good” penalties, ie hard into the top corner or at the foot of the post. Quite a few are smashed or even chipped down the middle as the goalkeeper dives out of the way. Others are poorly struck or too close to the keeper who might save them if he stayed in his central position and waited.
I wonder how many Butland would have saved if he had waited longer for the taker to commit before diving. Probably at least 1 in every 5 or 6 penalties is poorly executed anyway and would often be stopped by a keeper who stood his ground.
Sorensen who had one of the best penalty save records in in the premier league, (he saved almost 1 in every 4), very rarely went so early that the taker could just roll it into the opposite corner. It worked for him. Makes you wonder why Butland has never tried it. It could hardly work out worse!
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Nov 5, 2019 14:38:29 GMT
He’s saved 1 of the last 32 penalties he’s faced. It’s obviously not an area of his game he’s remotely bothered about trying to improve. I don't think your 2nd sentence follows from your first. But I think there are much higher priorities for both him and the team than trying to save penalties, which is always a lottery, including not giving them away in the first place. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 16:12:00 GMT
What caught my attention was how chatty and chummy he was being with the West Brom players in the tunnel before kick off. Save it for after, you should be concentrating on beating the opposition mentally and physically and that starts when you leave the changing room. Real apathy in the players and the club at the moment.
Rockets up arses is what’s needed.
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Post by stokie1954 on Nov 5, 2019 16:21:01 GMT
Butland was not to blame in any way shape or form tonight Quite right mate. The comments made about Butland on here are pathetic. Some were even blaming him for the defeat as he couldnt save a penalty. Some have short memories and forget the times he has kept us in games. Yes, he's going through a nightmare season but not to worry, Jack has some great defenders to protect him like Lindsay, Ward, McLean and Smith!!. |
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Post by andystokey on Nov 5, 2019 16:35:00 GMT
He’s a big head. Thinks he’s better than he is. Federici has done nothing wrong. The decision to choose Jack is what I have the issue with. Federici was getting a run of games distribution was better and the defence didn't look over their shoulder. Quy become one of the three amigos last night and randomly picks Jack. Indicating that Nathan's choice was to drop him. At this rate we have 2 demotivated keepers. Shocking decision. |
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Post by stokie1954 on Nov 5, 2019 16:38:57 GMT
The average over all the leagues for penalties saved by goalkeepers is nearly 20%, or 1 in 5. Butland’s 1 in 38 must be down to more than bad luck! With stats like that you would think he would try something different. Butland keeps doing the same thing and keeps getting the same results. I imagine his “technique” is now well known and opposition players are advised to wait for him to commit before directing the ball. It is doubtful if more than 50% of penalties are “good” penalties, ie hard into the top corner or at the foot of the post. Quite a few are smashed or even chipped down the middle as the goalkeeper dives out of the way. Others are poorly struck or too close to the keeper who might save them if he stayed in his central position and waited. I wonder how many Butland would have saved if he had waited longer for the taker to commit before diving. Probably at least 1 in every 5 or 6 penalties is poorly executed anyway and would often be stopped by a keeper who stood his ground. Sorensen who had one of the best penalty save records in in the premier league, (he saved almost 1 in every 4), very rarely went so early that the taker could just roll it into the opposite corner. It worked for him. Makes you wonder why Butland has never tried it. It could hardly work out worse! Maybe our classy defenders should try and stop giving penalties away so easily!. |
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Post by pushon on Nov 5, 2019 16:42:40 GMT
I haven't read the whole thread..was a reason given for Butland replacing Federici?
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Nov 5, 2019 16:44:01 GMT
He’s a big head. Thinks he’s better than he is. Federici has done nothing wrong. The decision to choose Jack is what I have the issue with. Federici was getting a run of games distribution was better and the defence didn't look over their shoulder. Quy become one of the three amigos last night and randomly picks Jack. Indicating that Nathan's choice was to drop him. At this rate we have 2 demotivated keepers. Shocking decision. I don’t think that follows. As you say Quy is part of the mansgerial triumvirate and is the goalkeeper coach who works with them every day and presumably selected the keeper who he thought was right for this game on the basis of far more knowledge than any of us have. |
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Post by pushon on Nov 5, 2019 16:47:40 GMT
The decision to choose Jack is what I have the issue with. Federici was getting a run of games distribution was better and the defence didn't look over their shoulder. Quy become one of the three amigos last night and randomly picks Jack. Indicating that Nathan's choice was to drop him. At this rate we have 2 demotivated keepers. Shocking decision. I don’t think that follows. As you say Quy is part of the mansgerial triumvirate and is the goalkeeper coach who works with them every day and presumably selected the keeper who he thought was right for this game on the basis of far more knowledge than any of us have. Ok, but we have the evidence of our own eyes regarding Butlands form this season, he was dropped for a reason. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Nov 5, 2019 16:59:45 GMT
I don’t think that follows. As you say Quy is part of the mansgerial triumvirate and is the goalkeeper coach who works with them every day and presumably selected the keeper who he thought was right for this game on the basis of far more knowledge than any of us have. Ok, but we have the evidence of our own eyes regarding Butlands form this season, he was dropped for a reason. Indeed he was. I'm not saying that he shouldn't have been dropped, but that doesn't mean that it must be permanent. Quy is the guy(could almost be a song that  ) whose job it is to work with the 'keepers, so if that's his judgement, it's good enough for me. It's in everybody's interest that Butland gets back to being the keeper he previously was. |
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Post by chuckrocky on Nov 5, 2019 17:51:31 GMT
He’s saved 1 of the last 32 penalties he’s faced. It’s obviously not an area of his game he’s remotely bothered about trying to improve. I don't think your 2nd sentence follows from your first. But I think there are much higher priorities for both him and the team than trying to save penalties, which is always a lottery, including not giving them away in the first place. Of course there are higher priorities. I was merely pointing out what a shocking stat it is. However, the extra few points a couple of penalty saves could result in could potentially be the difference between relegation and safety. |
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Post by TheProletarian on Nov 5, 2019 17:53:18 GMT
Again poor penalty technique from jack when faced with a penalty. When will he stop dropping to the floor before the ball is kicked. What is goalkeeper coach andy quy doing. Does he not coach penalty saving with Jack. Can he not see jack is making the same mistake every single time. Sort it out Quy. Sort it out butland. Butland hasn’t saved a penalty since his mates made him go in goal in 2006. |
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Post by TheProletarian on Nov 5, 2019 17:54:43 GMT
If I took 32 penalties I’d expect the keeper to save more than one. Are you a professional footballer- would you be taking the penalty against the same keeper? There are a lot of things you can have a go at Butland for, but being honest it was last year people said he only dives to his right, tonight he dived to his left and it’s still his fault? Mate. There must be a direct correlation between penalties saved and £value of keeper. It’s just an indication of quality. |
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Post by shooters on Nov 5, 2019 18:32:08 GMT
For the penalty I cound not understand the logic of walking away from the goal leaving kanu to look at a big open goal. Surely kanu's mindset thinks its a big goal i won't miss.
I always want to see the gk walking up to the ball, talking to the ref about it not being on the spot, the rules, etc, chirping at the attacker , swinging their arms around to try and get the slightest distraction. Bizarre approach followed by a slow collapse left whereas most keeprs step fwd then diagonally fwd.
I dont expect a save but i expect to see him engaged with the game. Not sure if that would be jack or the coaches strategy but 100% wrong? Note i also do back Jack over the other 2 keepers 100%.
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Post by pushon on Nov 5, 2019 19:07:11 GMT
Ok, but we have the evidence of our own eyes regarding Butlands form this season, he was dropped for a reason. Indeed he was. I'm not saying that he shouldn't have been dropped, but that doesn't mean that it must be permanent. Quy is the guy(could almost be a song that ) whose job it is to work with the 'keepers, so if that's his judgement, it's good enough for me. It's in everybody's interest that Butland gets back to being the keeper he previously was. Opinions eh Malcolm, I'm afraid I'm at a slight variance with you on this one. I'm inclined to agree with Andystokies opinion as stated a few posts ago.😊 |
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Post by wherty on Nov 5, 2019 19:15:55 GMT
He almost always just flops to the left. It’s pathetic between the pair of them. Was Quy the coach during Tommy's time with the club? Recall an interview with Sorensen,around the time of his fine streak of penalty saves for us,where he indicated he'd been working on a few things around spot kicks with the coach without divulging the minutiae of what they were focusing on. It's strange if it is the same regime,as by and large,we've been poor at saving penalties since Tommy depared. Andy Quay came here in the summer of 2007 so yes he was here way before Tommy came. |
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Post by femark on Nov 5, 2019 19:17:27 GMT
I'm not jumping on the slag Jack posts But out of interest Andy Quy who was he a keeper for , what is his pedigree ? Talked about being one of the best gk coaches in the country. The reason bego and Butland signed... |
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Post by lordherefordsknob on Nov 5, 2019 21:49:26 GMT
I miss Butlands mid week rallying calls on the club's website.
Whatever happened to those??
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Post by wherty on Nov 6, 2019 16:58:54 GMT
What caught my attention was how chatty and chummy he was being with the West Brom players in the tunnel before kick off. Save it for after, you should be concentrating on beating the opposition mentally and physically and that starts when you leave the changing room. Real apathy in the players and the club at the moment. Rockets up arses is what’s needed. Were you actually in the tunnel to witness this? |
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Nov 6, 2019 17:01:35 GMT
What caught my attention was how chatty and chummy he was being with the West Brom players in the tunnel before kick off. Save it for after, you should be concentrating on beating the opposition mentally and physically and that starts when you leave the changing room. Real apathy in the players and the club at the moment. Rockets up arses is what’s needed. Were you actually in the tunnel to witness this? Sky tv cameras maybe!!! |
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Post by GoBoks on Nov 6, 2019 17:06:42 GMT
The average over all the leagues for penalties saved by goalkeepers is nearly 20%, or 1 in 5. Butland’s 1 in 38 must be down to more than bad luck! With stats like that you would think he would try something different. Butland keeps doing the same thing and keeps getting the same results. I imagine his “technique” is now well known and opposition players are advised to wait for him to commit before directing the ball. It is doubtful if more than 50% of penalties are “good” penalties, ie hard into the top corner or at the foot of the post. Quite a few are smashed or even chipped down the middle as the goalkeeper dives out of the way. Others are poorly struck or too close to the keeper who might save them if he stayed in his central position and waited. I wonder how many Butland would have saved if he had waited longer for the taker to commit before diving. Probably at least 1 in every 5 or 6 penalties is poorly executed anyway and would often be stopped by a keeper who stood his ground. Sorensen who had one of the best penalty save records in in the premier league, (he saved almost 1 in every 4), very rarely went so early that the taker could just roll it into the opposite corner. It worked for him. Makes you wonder why Butland has never tried it. It could hardly work out worse! I think FlapJack would vastly improve his penalty success rate if he simply flipped a coin before each game (randomize) to decide Left or Right. Wait for the instant before the striker's foot hits the ball and then dive in that direction. If this doubled his success rate, would that make me twice as good a goalkeeping coach as Quy? |
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Post by DansViews on Nov 6, 2019 17:11:43 GMT
Were you actually in the tunnel to witness this? Sky tv cameras maybe!!! Yes, the sky cameras were showing the tunnels for a while. They were laughing and hugging and sharing jokes it seemed. Doesn't bother me as long as when they cross the line they give it all |
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) whose job it is to work with the 'keepers, so if that's his judgement, it's good enough for me. It's in everybody's interest that Butland gets back to being the keeper he previously was. 
