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Post by Staffsoatcake on Oct 23, 2019 10:50:02 GMT
I would love to pass him in the street here in Derry,because if he is on the street in Derry,he ain't in Stoke,so he won't be on the pitch.  |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Oct 23, 2019 17:16:22 GMT
you aint been watching Stoke very long then if you truly believe he is, but then again you did say one of the worst so that puts you on the fence  He is certainly up there amongst the worst, in terms of technical ability, that I've seen at any level in the 20+ years I've been watching football properly. Attitude, fitness, guts, grit, determination - he has all of those in abundance, but that doesn't make him a good footballer. He can't control a ball, can't pass, can't shoot... he's awful. The stats over his career back that up too. Actually I don't think they do. You can't play 300 games in the top two leagues in English football, the majority of them in the Premier League, and 60odd games for Ireland if you are that poor. Just couldn't happen. He is a good footballer by any normal use of the English language. I actually think he's been one of our better players over most of this season, although I accept that being one of the better players in a team which didn't win any matches is not the greatest accolade in the world.  Also, like any player his skills and strengths have to be used to best effect. He didn't select himself at left back. After the wins against Swansea and Fulham, I think the manager would have been right to keep an unchanged team last night if BMI hadn't been ill, but when he was, I also think we would have been better if Clucas had been put in a left back, not Ward, with McLean in front of him. I'm not saying McLean should be an automatic pick by any means, but I think in this thread there is a lot of Oatie type hyperbole. He's a good, albeit not particularly versatile, player who is a valuable member of the squad in my book. |
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Post by greenhoff on Oct 23, 2019 17:20:43 GMT
He is certainly up there amongst the worst, in terms of technical ability, that I've seen at any level in the 20+ years I've been watching football properly. Attitude, fitness, guts, grit, determination - he has all of those in abundance, but that doesn't make him a good footballer. He can't control a ball, can't pass, can't shoot... he's awful. The stats over his career back that up too. Actually I don't think they do. You can't play 300 games in the top two leagues in English football, the majority of them in the Premier League, and 60odd games for Ireland if you are that poor. Just couldn't happen. He is a good footballer by any normal use of the English language. I actually think he's been one of our better players over most of this season, although I accept that being one of the better players in a team which didn't win any matches is not the greatest accolade in the world. Also, like any player his skills and strengths have to be used to best effect. He didn't select himself at left back. After the wins against Swansea and Fulham, I think the manager would have been right to keep an unchanged team last night if BMI hadn't been ill, but when he was, I also think we would have been better if Clucas had been put in a left back, not Ward, with McLean in front of him. I'm not saying McLean should be an automatic pick by any means, but I think in this thread there is a lot of Oatie type hyperbole. He's a good, albeit not particularly versatile, player who is a valuable member of the squad in my book. I agree Malcolm then I remember he cost 6 million pounds. It was a very poor deal for a player of limited ability. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Oct 23, 2019 17:25:48 GMT
Actually I don't think they do. You can't play 300 games in the top two leagues in English football, the majority of them in the Premier League, and 60odd games for Ireland if you are that poor. Just couldn't happen. He is a good footballer by any normal use of the English language. I actually think he's been one of our better players over most of this season, although I accept that being one of the better players in a team which didn't win any matches is not the greatest accolade in the world. Also, like any player his skills and strengths have to be used to best effect. He didn't select himself at left back. After the wins against Swansea and Fulham, I think the manager would have been right to keep an unchanged team last night if BMI hadn't been ill, but when he was, I also think we would have been better if Clucas had been put in a left back, not Ward, with McLean in front of him. I'm not saying McLean should be an automatic pick by any means, but I think in this thread there is a lot of Oatie type hyperbole. He's a good, albeit not particularly versatile, player who is a valuable member of the squad in my book. I agree Malcolm then I remember he cost 6 million pounds. It was a very poor deal for a player of limited ability. Yes maybe, but value for money is a different question. Even on that he wasn't the worst deal we have done by any means (Berahino, Wimmer for starters) but I accept that's not setting the bar very high |
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Post by samba :) on Oct 23, 2019 17:33:35 GMT
I don't think he's as much of a catholic as he makes out as he clearly has no idea what a cross is
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Post by stokie223 on Oct 23, 2019 19:31:33 GMT
He is certainly up there amongst the worst, in terms of technical ability, that I've seen at any level in the 20+ years I've been watching football properly. Attitude, fitness, guts, grit, determination - he has all of those in abundance, but that doesn't make him a good footballer. He can't control a ball, can't pass, can't shoot... he's awful. The stats over his career back that up too. Actually I don't think they do. You can't play 300 games in the top two leagues in English football, the majority of them in the Premier League, and 60odd games for Ireland if you are that poor. Just couldn't happen. He is a good footballer by any normal use of the English language. I actually think he's been one of our better players over most of this season, although I accept that being one of the better players in a team which didn't win any matches is not the greatest accolade in the world. Also, like any player his skills and strengths have to be used to best effect. He didn't select himself at left back. After the wins against Swansea and Fulham, I think the manager would have been right to keep an unchanged team last night if BMI hadn't been ill, but when he was, I also think we would have been better if Clucas had been put in a left back, not Ward, with McLean in front of him. I'm not saying McLean should be an automatic pick by any means, but I think in this thread there is a lot of Oatie type hyperbole. He's a good, albeit not particularly versatile, player who is a valuable member of the squad in my book. Across his career, he's averaging roughly: 1 goal every 9 games 1 assist every 13 Do we think that's good enough? He's a professional footballer, and played all these games of which you speak, purely because of his physical/mental attributes. He's obviously incredibly fit, will run through brick walls for you, will play anywhere you tell him to and seems like a model professional - but none of those things make him a good footballer. In terms of proper technical footballing ability, he is awful. I've seen players at amateur level that have better ball control/passing ability etc. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Oct 23, 2019 19:44:25 GMT
Actually I don't think they do. You can't play 300 games in the top two leagues in English football, the majority of them in the Premier League, and 60odd games for Ireland if you are that poor. Just couldn't happen. He is a good footballer by any normal use of the English language. I actually think he's been one of our better players over most of this season, although I accept that being one of the better players in a team which didn't win any matches is not the greatest accolade in the world. Also, like any player his skills and strengths have to be used to best effect. He didn't select himself at left back. After the wins against Swansea and Fulham, I think the manager would have been right to keep an unchanged team last night if BMI hadn't been ill, but when he was, I also think we would have been better if Clucas had been put in a left back, not Ward, with McLean in front of him. I'm not saying McLean should be an automatic pick by any means, but I think in this thread there is a lot of Oatie type hyperbole. He's a good, albeit not particularly versatile, player who is a valuable member of the squad in my book. Across his career, he's averaging roughly: 1 goal every 9 games 1 assist every 13 Do we think that's good enough? He's a professional footballer, and played all these games of which you speak, purely because of his physical/mental attributes. He's obviously incredibly fit, will run through brick walls for you, will play anywhere you tell him to and seems like a model professional - but none of those things make him a good footballer. In terms of proper technical footballing ability, he is awful. I've seen players at amateur level that have better ball control/passing ability etc. If he was anything like as poor as you claim, there simply wouldn't be the career stats of 300 games at the top level to look at in the first place. As I'm sure you know, there are many more stats than the two you have selected, even if it is accepted ( which I personally don't) that those two support your rather hyperbolic assertions, of which your last sentence is another example. And he must have been incredibly lucky to have a succession of such incompetent managers who couldn't see what you see and kept on selecting him  . |
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Post by stokie223 on Oct 23, 2019 20:10:14 GMT
Across his career, he's averaging roughly: 1 goal every 9 games 1 assist every 13 Do we think that's good enough? He's a professional footballer, and played all these games of which you speak, purely because of his physical/mental attributes. He's obviously incredibly fit, will run through brick walls for you, will play anywhere you tell him to and seems like a model professional - but none of those things make him a good footballer. In terms of proper technical footballing ability, he is awful. I've seen players at amateur level that have better ball control/passing ability etc. If he was anything like as poor as you claim, there simply wouldn't be the career stats of 300 games at the top level to look at in the first place. As I'm sure you know, there are many more stats than the two you have selected, even if it is accepted ( which I personally don't) that those two support your rather hyperbolic assertions, of which your last sentence is another example. And he must have been incredibly lucky to have a succession of such incompetent managers who couldn't see what you see and kept on selecting him . That's simply not true - as I've explained. Do you honestly think if he was built in the mould of a Charlie Adam or a Dean Windass that he would be a professional footballer? He's an athlete, his fitness levels are incredible and he gives his all every time he steps on to the pitch - which seems to, for many people, mask the fact that he's just not very good. Could you please show me where I have once said that any of his managers have been incompetent? Managers do what they have to do to win games. Most of the managers he's played for could never expect to be the best team - but they can be the fittest, which is how he's managed to carve a living out of playing football. Derry, Sunderland, Wigan, West Brom and Gary Rowett's Stoke City were hardly renowned to playing good football were they? Equally with the Republic of Ireland. We could sit and talk about this all night, football is about opinions of course - but the only real measure is to look at the stats, and unfortunately for you they weigh heavily in my favour. This is a WINGER whom once went almost 2 years without scoring a single goal - and got 2 assists in that time. Shocking. |
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Post by elystokie on Oct 23, 2019 21:00:58 GMT
I hadn't seen much of him before he signed for us, he has his attributes obviously which are his willingness to run through walls and his fitness, whether that's enough to warrant a place in the team or not is obviously down to individual opinion.
The opinion of most fans on here when predicting/selecting their preferred team would indicate it isnt, time after time he would be and is left out of the vast majority of people's preferred line-ups, even when he was nailed on to start.
Just my opinion but I don't think he was worth anywhere near £6 million and it's some of the worst money we've spent.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Oct 23, 2019 21:02:59 GMT
Better or worse than Ward?
I actually think his best performances have been when he's been up top.
Which is saying something because those were average at the absolute best.
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Post by stantheman on Oct 23, 2019 21:31:43 GMT
Millwall absolutley hate our Jimmy
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Oct 23, 2019 22:05:35 GMT
If he was anything like as poor as you claim, there simply wouldn't be the career stats of 300 games at the top level to look at in the first place. As I'm sure you know, there are many more stats than the two you have selected, even if it is accepted ( which I personally don't) that those two support your rather hyperbolic assertions, of which your last sentence is another example. And he must have been incredibly lucky to have a succession of such incompetent managers who couldn't see what you see and kept on selecting him . That's simply not true - as I've explained. Do you honestly think if he was built in the mould of a Charlie Adam or a Dean Windass that he would be a professional footballer? He's an athlete, his fitness levels are incredible and he gives his all every time he steps on to the pitch - which seems to, for many people, mask the fact that he's just not very good. Could you please show me where I have once said that any of his managers have been incompetent? Managers do what they have to do to win games. Most of the managers he's played for could never expect to be the best team - but they can be the fittest, which is how he's managed to carve a living out of playing football. Derry, Sunderland, Wigan, West Brom and Gary Rowett's Stoke City were hardly renowned to playing good football were they? Equally with the Republic of Ireland. We could sit and talk about this all night, football is about opinions of course - but the only real measure is to look at the stats, and unfortunately for you they weigh heavily in my favour. This is a WINGER whom once went almost 2 years without scoring a single goal - and got 2 assists in that time. Shocking. I think we have probably squeezed as much juice out of this particular orange as we are going to get, but if it really were the case that "He can't control a ball, can't pass, can't shoot... he's awful." or "He is certainly up there amongst the worst, in terms of technical ability, that I've seen at any level in the 20+ years I've been watching football properly" (my emphasis) or "I've seen players at amateur level that have better ball control/passing ability etc." then doesn't it follow that the various managers who have given him so many games in the top two leagues must have been incompetent ? Except that I think you contradict yourself when you explain this by saying that "Managers do what they have to do to win games". Indeed they do - winning games is the object of the exercise and what all managers and players are trying to do, and what we as fans want them to do. If selecting a particular player - be it McLean or anyone else, helps a team at the top level to do this, I don't see how it's sustainable to say that they are "just not very good". It's surely self-contradictory. Thanks for the discussion anyway |
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Post by kustokie on Oct 23, 2019 22:55:41 GMT
He is certainly up there amongst the worst, in terms of technical ability, that I've seen at any level in the 20+ years I've been watching football properly. Attitude, fitness, guts, grit, determination - he has all of those in abundance, but that doesn't make him a good footballer. He can't control a ball, can't pass, can't shoot... he's awful. The stats over his career back that up too. Actually I don't think they do. You can't play 300 games in the top two leagues in English football, the majority of them in the Premier League, and 60odd games for Ireland if you are that poor. Just couldn't happen. He is a good footballer by any normal use of the English language. I actually think he's been one of our better players over most of this season, although I accept that being one of the better players in a team which didn't win any matches is not the greatest accolade in the world. Also, like any player his skills and strengths have to be used to best effect. He didn't select himself at left back. After the wins against Swansea and Fulham, I think the manager would have been right to keep an unchanged team last night if BMI hadn't been ill, but when he was, I also think we would have been better if Clucas had been put in a left back, not Ward, with McLean in front of him. I'm not saying McLean should be an automatic pick by any means, but I think in this thread there is a lot of Oatie type hyperbole. He's a good, albeit not particularly versatile, player who is a valuable member of the squad in my book. Whatever he once had, he appears to have lost. Because he’s rubbish. End of story. |
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Post by stokie223 on Oct 24, 2019 8:57:46 GMT
That's simply not true - as I've explained. Do you honestly think if he was built in the mould of a Charlie Adam or a Dean Windass that he would be a professional footballer? He's an athlete, his fitness levels are incredible and he gives his all every time he steps on to the pitch - which seems to, for many people, mask the fact that he's just not very good. Could you please show me where I have once said that any of his managers have been incompetent? Managers do what they have to do to win games. Most of the managers he's played for could never expect to be the best team - but they can be the fittest, which is how he's managed to carve a living out of playing football. Derry, Sunderland, Wigan, West Brom and Gary Rowett's Stoke City were hardly renowned to playing good football were they? Equally with the Republic of Ireland. We could sit and talk about this all night, football is about opinions of course - but the only real measure is to look at the stats, and unfortunately for you they weigh heavily in my favour. This is a WINGER whom once went almost 2 years without scoring a single goal - and got 2 assists in that time. Shocking. I think we have probably squeezed as much juice out of this particular orange as we are going to get, but if it really were the case that "He can't control a ball, can't pass, can't shoot... he's awful." or "He is certainly up there amongst the worst, in terms of technical ability, that I've seen at any level in the 20+ years I've been watching football properly" (my emphasis) or "I've seen players at amateur level that have better ball control/passing ability etc." then doesn't it follow that the various managers who have given him so many games in the top two leagues must have been incompetent ? Except that I think you contradict yourself when you explain this by saying that "Managers do what they have to do to win games". Indeed they do - winning games is the object of the exercise and what all managers and players are trying to do, and what we as fans want them to do. If selecting a particular player - be it McLean or anyone else, helps a team at the top level to do this, I don't see how it's sustainable to say that they are "just not very good". It's surely self-contradictory. Thanks for the discussion anyway I really do think you're missing my point. In terms of technical ability. It's his technical attributes in terms of his passing, finishing, ball control etc. that are genuinely, in my opinion, of an amateur level and I am in no way exaggerating when I say I've seen players at every level of the game which are superior. Again I go back to my argument that he has played for not one team that you would consider a good, footballing team. Some managers LOVE a workhorse and technical ability is considered secondary to an extent. I'm not contradicting myself at all though, as the only point I am trying to make is that James McClean is - in terms of technical ability - not a very good footballer. If he was built like Dean Windass would he be a professional footballer? No. If he had Mesut Ozil's attitude and work rate, would he be a professional footballer? No. If he didn't run around a lot, he wouldn't have a job. The stats prove that. |
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Post by Gods on Oct 24, 2019 9:12:47 GMT
He's no worse technically than at least half a dozen of our regular starters and he brings a saltier degree of manliness to the party which we sure need right now.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 9:49:07 GMT
What he did generally do well at left back this season was bring the ball forward and give us our forward shape in games when we should be on the front foot. His final ball and finishing aren't good enough, but if BMI is ill I'd have him at left back over Ward, especially against Millwall, where we'll need everyone we can get pushing forward to break them down.
RE: Clucas, he would probably be good there, but I don't want him out of our midfield. Especially not if Etebo is injured.
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Post by stokie1947 on Oct 24, 2019 9:55:13 GMT
i must admit i feel a bit sorry for the guy forget his beliefs for a minute but he has been told to play left back which we all know including him, it's not his position but he hasn't unlike a lot of players would moan like fuck about it he just got on with it and gives 100% all the time
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Post by RAF on Oct 24, 2019 16:20:47 GMT
Across his career, he's averaging roughly: 1 goal every 9 games 1 assist every 13 Do we think that's good enough? He's a professional footballer, and played all these games of which you speak, purely because of his physical/mental attributes. He's obviously incredibly fit, will run through brick walls for you, will play anywhere you tell him to and seems like a model professional - but none of those things make him a good footballer. In terms of proper technical footballing ability, he is awful. I've seen players at amateur level that have better ball control/passing ability etc. If he was anything like as poor as you claim, there simply wouldn't be the career stats of 300 games at the top level to look at in the first place. As I'm sure you know, there are many more stats than the two you have selected, even if it is accepted ( which I personally don't) that those two support your rather hyperbolic assertions, of which your last sentence is another example. And he must have been incredibly lucky to have a succession of such incompetent managers who couldn't see what you see and kept on selecting him 8-|. Carlton Palmer! H |
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Post by PolPotter on Oct 24, 2019 18:22:31 GMT
He is certainly up there amongst the worst, in terms of technical ability, that I've seen at any level in the 20+ years I've been watching football properly. Attitude, fitness, guts, grit, determination - he has all of those in abundance, but that doesn't make him a good footballer. He can't control a ball, can't pass, can't shoot... he's awful. The stats over his career back that up too. Actually I don't think they do. You can't play 300 games in the top two leagues in English football, the majority of them in the Premier League, and 60odd games for Ireland if you are that poor. Just couldn't happen. He is a good footballer by any normal use of the English language. I actually think he's been one of our better players over most of this season, although I accept that being one of the better players in a team which didn't win any matches is not the greatest accolade in the world. Also, like any player his skills and strengths have to be used to best effect. He didn't select himself at left back. After the wins against Swansea and Fulham, I think the manager would have been right to keep an unchanged team last night if BMI hadn't been ill, but when he was, I also think we would have been better if Clucas had been put in a left back, not Ward, with McLean in front of him. I'm not saying McLean should be an automatic pick by any means, but I think in this thread there is a lot of Oatie type hyperbole. He's a good, albeit not particularly versatile, player who is a valuable member of the squad in my book. You can't sustain the level of greatness you consider Mclean to be until you retire. He may have pulled his weight during the 300 games you are boasting about but now, right now...he is turd. His best is past him. We now have a different player. A crap one. He is one of the most seriously disappointing players for our club in terms of his output. |
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Post by thevoid on Oct 24, 2019 19:28:31 GMT
Look up 'mediocre' in the dictionary and there's a photo of James McClean.
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Post by silsdenstokie on Oct 26, 2019 9:35:25 GMT
I hadn't seen much of him before he signed for us, he has his attributes obviously which are his willingness to run through walls and his fitness, whether that's enough to warrant a place in the team or not is obviously down to individual opinion. The opinion of most fans on here when predicting/selecting their preferred team would indicate it isnt, time after time he would be and is left out of the vast majority of people's preferred line-ups, even when he was nailed on to start. Just my opinion but I don't think he was worth anywhere near £6 million and it's some of the worst money we've spent. Rowett's biggest mistake IMO, a shocking waste of money |
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Post by redwhite on Oct 26, 2019 15:27:31 GMT
You know you’re a shit player when the only statistic that can be pointed to in defence of your ability is apprearances.
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Post by elystokie on Oct 26, 2019 15:36:48 GMT
To be fair, since he's been on he's done one nice first time touch out to Indi.
So there's that...
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 26, 2019 15:41:25 GMT
Dreadful, dreadful, dreadful football player.
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Post by wherty on Oct 26, 2019 15:41:49 GMT
Well I've had a fiver on McClean getting booked so he's banned for the poppy celebration game against West Brom a week on Monday.
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