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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 20, 2019 15:33:40 GMT
You prove it again. Who doesn't care about the planet? Is me flying to Rhodes once in a blue moon endangering it? I didn't say it was lefty or liberal to care about the planet, I said lefties and liberals tend to be the most strident "I am always right" types, at least in my experience. As for hypocrisy, who has turned Brexit into a solely right wing project on that thread, when many on the left want to leave the EU as well? No offence but you've lost the plot here mate. You have a guy joking about a 16 year old girl drowning at sea and you're more concerned with complaining about how some people are telling you climate change is a pretty serious issue. Which it is. Literally no one is stopping you from going to Rhodes, although people ARE pointing out that we can all do stuff to mitigate the effects of climate change. Which we can. Thunberg herself has said repeatedly that this isn't about left or right. Yet you're trying to turn it into that in a frankly absurd attempt to imply it's all just a load of yogurt knitting tree hugging nanny state lefty bullying so that you can go to Rhodes guilt-free. Well it doesn't wash I'm afraid. If you don't like Thunberg's warnings, then don't read about them - that's democracy. As to your question about Brexit - no idea. I mentioned Rhodes in a light hearted way, or that was the intention. I didn't even know what Banks had said, and that is a snide thing to say, I agree. Serpico's views on the issue are similar to mine, so I won't state them again. Ask yourself why all the political parties are all over the issue (all of a sudden, apart from the Greens), though. There's a desperate battle to be seen as green ; its a vote winner. It's fucking transparent.
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Post by vokeswagen on Aug 20, 2019 15:36:18 GMT
Again. I didn't bring politics into this. The issue goes way above and beyond your political party or "wing". But in an utterly predictable and lamentably unintelligent fashion, people on here mistake caring about the planet for being "left wing", and therefore eschew it out of spite. Self defeating beyond parody. I care for the planet, we should aim to be clean and as environmentally friendly as possible, I just don’t buy into Thunberg and co fear mongering and apocalyptic predictions. think they’re the political ones, they’re using climate change issue to push an anti capitalist agenda. A 16 year old girl with Asperger's, spearheading a leftist global conspiracy to topple capitalism, whilst masquerading as a normal citizen genuinely concerned by climate change. Right. Cool story, bro.
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Post by stokefc on Aug 20, 2019 15:50:34 GMT
I've got a compost heap so alls well but but I've got a petrol mower. Shit, does that even things out
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 20, 2019 16:00:29 GMT
I've got a compost heap so alls well but but I've got a petrol mower. Shit, does that even things out If you spread the compost on your lawn - possibly. Depends, I guess, on whether your mower has a decent roller.
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Post by musik on Aug 20, 2019 16:04:11 GMT
I've got a compost heap so alls well but but I've got a petrol mower. Shit, does that even things out About even things out ... Has anyone seen the Tui Travels climate compensation program? If you travel by their planes and stay at their hotels, they'll invest part of the profit into environmental friendy projects. When you read more about it seems like it's a 100% compensation. But I'm not sure about that.
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Post by vokeswagen on Aug 20, 2019 16:42:09 GMT
No offence but you've lost the plot here mate. You have a guy joking about a 16 year old girl drowning at sea and you're more concerned with complaining about how some people are telling you climate change is a pretty serious issue. Which it is. Literally no one is stopping you from going to Rhodes, although people ARE pointing out that we can all do stuff to mitigate the effects of climate change. Which we can. Thunberg herself has said repeatedly that this isn't about left or right. Yet you're trying to turn it into that in a frankly absurd attempt to imply it's all just a load of yogurt knitting tree hugging nanny state lefty bullying so that you can go to Rhodes guilt-free. Well it doesn't wash I'm afraid. If you don't like Thunberg's warnings, then don't read about them - that's democracy. As to your question about Brexit - no idea. I mentioned Rhodes in a light hearted way, or that was the intention. I didn't even know what Banks had said, and that is a snide thing to say, I agree. Serpico's views on the issue are similar to mine, so I won't state them again. Ask yourself why all the political parties are all over the issue (all of a sudden, apart from the Greens), though. There's a desperate battle to be seen as green ; its a vote winner. It's fucking transparent. And ask yourself why that desperate battle is taking place; because there's an exponentially growing number of ordinary people who would like more to be done about climate change. THAT is the transparent bit. The political parties wouldn't be getting on board if they didn't realise their own survival depended on them coming up with some policies to counter the problem. They're not just doing it for a laugh, or to have a pop at you.
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Post by felonious on Aug 20, 2019 17:16:57 GMT
I've got a compost heap so alls well but but I've got a petrol mower. Shit, does that even things out About even things out ... Has anyone seen the Tui Travels climate compensation program? If you travel by their planes and stay at their hotels, they'll invest part of the profit into environmental friendy projects. When you read more about it seems like it's a 100% compensation. But I'm not sure about that. Thank you I feel much better about December's holiday now
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Post by musik on Aug 20, 2019 18:49:26 GMT
Thank you I feel much better about December's holiday now If you'll use Tui, tell us afterwards what it meant ... I believe in technological development. I'm convinced some time in the future we will have planes with 0 pollution. Btw, I found existing ferry lines going from Copenhagen, Southampton or Barcelona to New York, and back. Something for Greta Thunberg with crew for the return back, if they don't use the Malizia II.
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Post by musik on Aug 20, 2019 19:33:02 GMT
Today I got an invitation to a conference about the environment. I was really surprised they gave it to me since I'm no "member" of the Green Movement, until I saw it was a mass invitation. Greta Thunberg will hold a speech, but only via video link.
One of the speakers is someone called David Wallace-Wells. Have no info about him, except he's written a book called "The Uninhabitable Earth. A story of the future".
Has anyone read it?
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Post by musik on Aug 21, 2019 19:54:22 GMT
I've not decided if I'll go to the conference yet,
but if I do I'll leave a report!
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Post by foster on Aug 22, 2019 11:52:32 GMT
So... with all these fires raging all over the world, icecaps melting, reefs dying and a gradual increase in temperature that will probably increase in speed.
Do any posters on here still think that climate change is fake news?
To be honest, the more I read about what's happening across the planet the more concerned I'm getting.
Some high up people need to start making some big decisions soon.
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Post by musik on Aug 22, 2019 12:54:09 GMT
So... with all these fires raging all over the world, icecaps melting, reefs dying and a gradual increase in temperature that will probably increase in speed. Do any posters on here still think that climate change is fake news? To be honest, the more I read about what's happening across the planet the more concerned I'm getting. Some high up people need to start making some big decisions soon. For a start, Icecaps melting is really worrying! If you haven't read David Wallace-Wells, pls do. Or should I say, I wish everyone else did ...
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Post by serpico on Aug 22, 2019 21:56:34 GMT
So... with all these fires raging all over the world, icecaps melting, reefs dying and a gradual increase in temperature that will probably increase in speed. Do any posters on here still think that climate change is fake news? To be honest, the more I read about what's happening across the planet the more concerned I'm getting. Some high up people need to start making some big decisions soon. I believe the climate changes.
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 22, 2019 22:12:34 GMT
About even things out ... Has anyone seen the Tui Travels climate compensation program? If you travel by their planes and stay at their hotels, they'll invest part of the profit into environmental friendy projects. When you read more about it seems like it's a 100% compensation. But I'm not sure about that. Thank you I feel much better about December's holiday now Me too 😎
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 23, 2019 7:59:06 GMT
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Post by foster on Aug 23, 2019 8:30:12 GMT
Aside from the last bit with Corbyn, it seems pretty much spot on
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 23, 2019 8:44:13 GMT
We all need to make a contribution not just rely on governments to solve this or any other problem.
We've become lazy and feckless and just blame the government for everything.
My contribution, I'm delighted to say, is to purchase a super-charged weed burner for my garden, so I no longer have to use pesticides.
Beat that!!
😉
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Post by foster on Aug 23, 2019 9:31:30 GMT
We all need to make a contribution not just rely on governments to solve this or any other problem. We've become lazy and feckless and just blame the government for everything. My contribution, I'm delighted to say, is to purchase a super-charged weed burner for my garden, so I no longer have to use pesticides. Beat that!! 😉 Governments only get blamed because they don't do anything. They just keep sending out tweets and cries of despair without actually following them up with action. Slap tariffs on plastics, penalise or refuse products from producers that pollute the environment, promote locally produced food, promote local holiday destinations, promote public transport (improve it also). There are so many basic things that still need to be done - like just recycling properly. If governments can tax fags, alcohol and items that are bad for your health then they can do the same for items that are bad for the environment, as these inherently lead to poorer health anyway. Some basics... - Single use plastics ban.. What's the delay? - 10p for a plastic bag from the supermarket?... Simply get rid of plastic bags altogether and leave only recyclable ones. Even if some people moan about it, they'll soon start bringing their reusable bags with them to the supermarket rather than paying a quid for a new one. - Get money back for returning glass bottles / crates to the supermarket. Another basic initiative. I can't think of why this is isn't in use in the UK. - Massively increase the cost of general waste bin bags and keep bags for recyclable materials cheap. - Increase prices for plastic food containers used by restaurants for takeaways. This will give them an incentive to offer a discount to customers who bring their own tupperware (containers). Some food franchises are already doing this. Most of the basic things are really just small and easy changes to behaviour that after a little while become natural. Once you do it for a bit you become more aware and really start to notice just how much plastic waste there is everywhere. Just the other day I was strolling down the yoghurt aisle (typical day out) and began thinking about just how much plastic is being used for packaging all those individual pots. Then how much they use for packaging sliced meat and cheese, etc. It's fucking everywhere. Anyway, climate change is the number 1 issue globally and drastic measures need to be taken to combat it. If not, then it won't be long before many governments are ousted by the greens.
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Post by Northy on Aug 23, 2019 15:34:10 GMT
Aside from the last bit with Corbyn, it seems pretty much spot on Good old George, I did the Chris Packham march for wildlife last year and he gave a speech at the end outside the gates to Downing street. If there's anybody left who doesn't believe the world is being decimated and climate change isn't happening then there's little hope for humanity. Still amazes me how many youngsters (who are supposed to be wised up on this) walk around with single use plastic bottles, mature people who cant go without a costa fix and dont have a reusable cup etc. etc. There's some thick rich and lazy bastards about
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 23, 2019 15:40:02 GMT
We all need to make a contribution not just rely on governments to solve this or any other problem. We've become lazy and feckless and just blame the government for everything. My contribution, I'm delighted to say, is to purchase a super-charged weed burner for my garden, so I no longer have to use pesticides. Beat that!! 😉 Governments only get blamed because they don't do anything. They just keep sending out tweets and cries of despair without actually following them up with action. Slap tariffs on plastics, penalise or refuse products from producers that pollute the environment, promote locally produced food, promote local holiday destinations, promote public transport (improve it also). There are so many basic things that still need to be done - like just recycling properly. If governments can tax fags, alcohol and items that are bad for your health then they can do the same for items that are bad for the environment, as these inherently lead to poorer health anyway. Some basics... - Single use plastics ban.. What's the delay? - 10p for a plastic bag from the supermarket?... Simply get rid of plastic bags altogether and leave only recyclable ones. Even if some people moan about it, they'll soon start bringing their reusable bags with them to the supermarket rather than paying a quid for a new one. - Get money back for returning glass bottles / crates to the supermarket. Another basic initiative. I can't think of why this is isn't in use in the UK. - Massively increase the cost of general waste bin bags and keep bags for recyclable materials cheap. - Increase prices for plastic food containers used by restaurants for takeaways. This will give them an incentive to offer a discount to customers who bring their own tupperware (containers). Some food franchises are already doing this. Most of the basic things are really just small and easy changes to behaviour that after a little while become natural. Once you do it for a bit you become more aware and really start to notice just how much plastic waste there is everywhere. Just the other day I was strolling down the yoghurt aisle (typical day out) and began thinking about just how much plastic is being used for packaging all those individual pots. Then how much they use for packaging sliced meat and cheese, etc. It's fucking everywhere. Anyway, climate change is the number 1 issue globally and drastic measures need to be taken to combat it. If not, then it won't be long before many governments are ousted by the greens. I agree with most of that but you need to be realistic too. If you start to massively increase the price of bin bags you'll end up with streets full of rubbish. Remember that a lot of environmental improvements cost money..and people who don't have much of it..who are probably the least environmentally 'conscious'..will seek out cheaper alternatives whose long term health costs (to themselves) will outweigh any environmental benefits. M&S and Waitrose might be following the environmental train but Heron Foods are still stuck in the station.
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Post by Northy on Aug 23, 2019 15:56:28 GMT
Governments only get blamed because they don't do anything. They just keep sending out tweets and cries of despair without actually following them up with action. Slap tariffs on plastics, penalise or refuse products from producers that pollute the environment, promote locally produced food, promote local holiday destinations, promote public transport (improve it also). There are so many basic things that still need to be done - like just recycling properly. If governments can tax fags, alcohol and items that are bad for your health then they can do the same for items that are bad for the environment, as these inherently lead to poorer health anyway. Some basics... - Single use plastics ban.. What's the delay? - 10p for a plastic bag from the supermarket?... Simply get rid of plastic bags altogether and leave only recyclable ones. Even if some people moan about it, they'll soon start bringing their reusable bags with them to the supermarket rather than paying a quid for a new one. - Get money back for returning glass bottles / crates to the supermarket. Another basic initiative. I can't think of why this is isn't in use in the UK. - Massively increase the cost of general waste bin bags and keep bags for recyclable materials cheap. - Increase prices for plastic food containers used by restaurants for takeaways. This will give them an incentive to offer a discount to customers who bring their own tupperware (containers). Some food franchises are already doing this. Most of the basic things are really just small and easy changes to behaviour that after a little while become natural. Once you do it for a bit you become more aware and really start to notice just how much plastic waste there is everywhere. Just the other day I was strolling down the yoghurt aisle (typical day out) and began thinking about just how much plastic is being used for packaging all those individual pots. Then how much they use for packaging sliced meat and cheese, etc. It's fucking everywhere. Anyway, climate change is the number 1 issue globally and drastic measures need to be taken to combat it. If not, then it won't be long before many governments are ousted by the greens. I agree with most of that but you need to be realistic too. If you start to massively increase the price of bin bags you'll end up with streets full of rubbish. Remember that a lot of environmental improvements cost money..and people who don't have much of it..who are probably the least environmentally 'conscious'..will seek out cheaper alternatives whose long term health costs (to themselves) will outweigh any environmental benefits. M&S and Waitrose might be following the environmental train but Heron Foods are still stuck in the station. The streets are already full of rubbish, in the UK 700,000 plastic bottles a day don't make it to recycling, just think on that, 700,000 a day, 25,550,000 a year. half are probably dumped out of a car window and the rest go in general landfill. If we had the deposit scheme like some countries in the world that would virtually disappear, it's so simple yet we are only looking into a fookin report on it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 10:22:32 GMT
Governments only get blamed because they don't do anything. They just keep sending out tweets and cries of despair without actually following them up with action. Slap tariffs on plastics, penalise or refuse products from producers that pollute the environment, promote locally produced food, promote local holiday destinations, promote public transport (improve it also). There are so many basic things that still need to be done - like just recycling properly. If governments can tax fags, alcohol and items that are bad for your health then they can do the same for items that are bad for the environment, as these inherently lead to poorer health anyway. Some basics... - Single use plastics ban.. What's the delay? - 10p for a plastic bag from the supermarket?... Simply get rid of plastic bags altogether and leave only recyclable ones. Even if some people moan about it, they'll soon start bringing their reusable bags with them to the supermarket rather than paying a quid for a new one. - Get money back for returning glass bottles / crates to the supermarket. Another basic initiative. I can't think of why this is isn't in use in the UK. - Massively increase the cost of general waste bin bags and keep bags for recyclable materials cheap. - Increase prices for plastic food containers used by restaurants for takeaways. This will give them an incentive to offer a discount to customers who bring their own tupperware (containers). Some food franchises are already doing this. Most of the basic things are really just small and easy changes to behaviour that after a little while become natural. Once you do it for a bit you become more aware and really start to notice just how much plastic waste there is everywhere. Just the other day I was strolling down the yoghurt aisle (typical day out) and began thinking about just how much plastic is being used for packaging all those individual pots. Then how much they use for packaging sliced meat and cheese, etc. It's fucking everywhere. Anyway, climate change is the number 1 issue globally and drastic measures need to be taken to combat it. If not, then it won't be long before many governments are ousted by the greens. I agree with most of that but you need to be realistic too. If you start to massively increase the price of bin bags you'll end up with streets full of rubbish. Remember that a lot of environmental improvements cost money..and people who don't have much of it..who are probably the least environmentally 'conscious'..will seek out cheaper alternatives whose long term health costs (to themselves) will outweigh any environmental benefits. M&S and Waitrose might be following the environmental train but Heron Foods are still stuck in the station. I agree with the bits posted above but honestly the biggest thing has to be the phasing out of all fossil fuels in industry. They need to be gone by 2025. It won't happen, because people will complain about the money. A made up concept that we've convinced ourselves is more important somehow than keeping the species safe. There's your issue with our society though, we're built for expansion and growth, but that can't go on forever on a finite planet. Either capitalism goes, or a large fraction of the human race goes. I know which of those I believe it will be, and it's not the ethical option.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 24, 2019 12:37:19 GMT
I agree with most of that but you need to be realistic too. If you start to massively increase the price of bin bags you'll end up with streets full of rubbish. Remember that a lot of environmental improvements cost money..and people who don't have much of it..who are probably the least environmentally 'conscious'..will seek out cheaper alternatives whose long term health costs (to themselves) will outweigh any environmental benefits. M&S and Waitrose might be following the environmental train but Heron Foods are still stuck in the station. I agree with the bits posted above but honestly the biggest thing has to be the phasing out of all fossil fuels in industry. They need to be gone by 2025. It won't happen, because people will complain about the money. A made up concept that we've convinced ourselves is more important somehow than keeping the species safe. There's your issue with our society though, we're built for expansion and growth, but that can't go on forever on a finite planet. Either capitalism goes, or a large fraction of the human race goes. I know which of those I believe it will be, and it's not the ethical option. Maybe we should stop people having more than 2 children. That would help. Highly unlikely though because it's virtually impossible to enforce.
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Post by foster on Aug 24, 2019 13:55:21 GMT
I agree with the bits posted above but honestly the biggest thing has to be the phasing out of all fossil fuels in industry. They need to be gone by 2025. It won't happen, because people will complain about the money. A made up concept that we've convinced ourselves is more important somehow than keeping the species safe. There's your issue with our society though, we're built for expansion and growth, but that can't go on forever on a finite planet. Either capitalism goes, or a large fraction of the human race goes. I know which of those I believe it will be, and it's not the ethical option. Maybe we should stop people having more than 2 children. That would help. Highly unlikely though because it's virtually impossible to enforce. For a start we could remove child benefits after 2 children. That may dissuade benefit scroungers from having more kids.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 14:30:51 GMT
I agree with the bits posted above but honestly the biggest thing has to be the phasing out of all fossil fuels in industry. They need to be gone by 2025. It won't happen, because people will complain about the money. A made up concept that we've convinced ourselves is more important somehow than keeping the species safe. There's your issue with our society though, we're built for expansion and growth, but that can't go on forever on a finite planet. Either capitalism goes, or a large fraction of the human race goes. I know which of those I believe it will be, and it's not the ethical option. Maybe we should stop people having more than 2 children. That would help. Highly unlikely though because it's virtually impossible to enforce. Nope, we definitely shouldn't do that. There is no overpopulation problem, only a problem of a small part of the population hoarding the resources for themselves. Move towards sustainability and wellbeing and way from profit. That's the only way we get through safely.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 24, 2019 14:42:55 GMT
Maybe we should stop people having more than 2 children. That would help. Highly unlikely though because it's virtually impossible to enforce. Nope, we definitely shouldn't do that. There is no overpopulation problem, only a problem of a small part of the population hoarding the resources for themselves. Move towards sustainability and wellbeing and way from profit. That's the only way we get through safely. Doesn't that mean moving away from an economy which is roughly is 40% public and 60% private, which most Northern Industrialised Economies consist of, to varying degrees. (No such thing as a Free Market Economy, of course) This suggests a more Social Democratic Model, rather than the one we've got. Which would be, IMO, a big improvement for the majority, with a much greater emphasis on environmental issues. And that suggests, that the UK (ie the majority of the population) would benefit from a Labour/SNP/Lib-Dem/Green Alliance at the next General Election, given that the Tories/Brexit Party really couldn't give a fuck about environmental issues or the majority of the population either.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 15:08:56 GMT
Nope, we definitely shouldn't do that. There is no overpopulation problem, only a problem of a small part of the population hoarding the resources for themselves. Move towards sustainability and wellbeing and way from profit. That's the only way we get through safely. Doesn't that mean moving away from an economy which is roughly is 40% public and 60% private, which most Northern Industrialised Economies consist of, to varying degrees. (No such thing as a Free Market Economy, of course) This suggests a more Social Democratic Model, rather than the one we've got. Which would be, IMO, a big improvement for the majority, with a much greater emphasis on environmental issues. And that suggests, that the UK (ie the majority of the population) would benefit from a Labour/SNP/Lib-Dem/Green Alliance at the next General Election, given that the Tories/Brexit Party really couldn't give a fuck about environmental issues or the majority of the population either. Yep. It basically means a slow phasing out of capitalism, with an immediate phasing out of the ultra-growth model we have currently. Building a business that uses huge amounts of finite resources for profit purposes is not 'good business', it's greed and waste.
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Post by musik on Aug 24, 2019 20:57:24 GMT
It will never happen, Lilfraise. We're going under. First. At last in Sweden we will.
Today right wing party SD, Sweden Democrats, their leader held a speech, among things said: "Greta Thunberg is just a symbol. Going on a boat trip won't change anything. Every normal person understand we can't go by boat to transport people and goods around the globe to save the earth. We can't afford that! The world economy would collapse."
I have full respect for people wanting to save the world. But we can't afford that, is basically what he meant.
He got a standing ovation. Best speech ever people said. SD are 3rd or 2nd largest party.
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Post by foster on Aug 24, 2019 21:29:54 GMT
It will never happen, Lilfraise. We're going under. First. At last in Sweden we will. Today right wing party SD, Sweden Democrats, their leader held a speech, among things said: "Greta Thunberg is just a symbol. Going on a boat trip won't change anything. Every normal person understand we can't go by boat to transport people and goods around the globe to save the earth. We can't afford that! The world economy would collapse." I have full respect for people wanting to save the world. But we can't afford that, is basically what he meant. He got a standing ovation. Best speech ever people said. SD are 3rd or 2nd largest party. It will happen because at some point something epic is going to happen. Most probably to a poorer nation.
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Post by musik on Aug 24, 2019 22:16:14 GMT
It will never happen, Lilfraise. We're going under. First. At last in Sweden we will. It will happen because at some point something epic is going to happen. Most probably to a poorer nation. I was a bit vague. Yes. It WILL happen. But not until they've gone under: "We're going under. First." And it could be Sweden.
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