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Post by bathstoke on Aug 18, 2019 7:54:14 GMT
The Grosvenors were bestowed Westminster by William the Conqueror for looking after his horses. The Duke is a cheeky £@#&er cancelling the councils contract for the property(obviously so that he can knock down the flats & build luxury apartments)the crown should cancel his contract & take back Westminster, his family have been paid enough for his part in the defeat of our ancestors🐎
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Post by serpico on Aug 18, 2019 8:37:14 GMT
Most of the climate change folks push the worst case, least likely outcomes of climate change, but it’s by no means a fact that the world is going to end if nothing is done, or that humans will be negatively effected.
Spain tried to greenify their economy and it was disasterous for jobs.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 18, 2019 8:45:56 GMT
One problem with Greta’s approach to climate change is it indirectly supports one very efficient approach to fix the problem.
Make everything that is “bad” so expensive that folk can’t afford it.
So, for example, impose a tax surcharge on flights of £1,000 per flight regardless of distance. Make petrol £10 per litre.
Of course, some folk will still be able to afford it. But 99% won’t, so we cut emissions massively.
Everyone’s a winner.
Or a loser if you miss being able to drive your car, or head off to the Canaries for your summer hols. But, if you’re filthy rich, so much the better; those crowded beaches will be so much better without the plebs messing it up.
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Post by musik on Aug 18, 2019 9:22:50 GMT
One problem with Greta’s approach to climate change is it indirectly supports one very efficient approach to fix the problem. Make everything that is “bad” so expensive that folk can’t afford it. So, for example, impose a tax surcharge on flights of £1,000 per flight regardless of distance. Make petrol £10 per litre. Of course, some folk will still be able to afford it. But 99% won’t, so we cut emissions massively. Everyone’s a winner. Or a loser if you miss being able to drive your car, or head off to the Canaries for your summer hols. But, if you’re filthy rich, so much the better; those crowded beaches will be so much better without the plebs messing it up. Or switch "problem" with "solution". This is what swedish liberal politicians have tried to do for ages with the appartments here in Sweden to get rid off the queues. Sometimes I seriously believe they are mentally challenged. I wonder if the resistance movement will be able to hold on that long. The rents are rising. Even if having a roof over ones head not necessarily is "bad".
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Post by musik on Aug 18, 2019 9:45:37 GMT
Most of the climate change folks push the worst case, least likely outcomes of climate change, but it’s by no means a fact that the world is going to end if nothing is done, or that humans will be negatively effected. Spain tried to greenify their economy and it was disasterous for jobs. 🙂 We really ARE negatively affected in many ways. For instance, two examples, there are dehydrated former lakes in Africa, Kazakhstan and elsewhere. And an increasing amount of allergies. Contemplate. Disastrous for jobs is sometimes a must. For Spain? I don't know. But look at the inflation rate development they've had. What we must consider is the Value per working hour. I can't speak of Spain in particular, but in Sweden the value on the margin of a working hour in many sectors are negative or almost negative. And to compensate we have to work more and more and more hours in the population. Therefore, their long time plan is to bring another 30 millions immigrants into this country, since the swedes aren't enough reproductive. But the "cake" isn't growing as fast as it should and the reason is simple: the margin of working hours have long gone reached its maximum. It started to decline in the 1950ies. So work isn't the holy solution - when considering all side effects. It's what you get on the margin. Real values. /economist
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 18, 2019 10:01:04 GMT
One problem with Greta’s approach to climate change is it indirectly supports one very efficient approach to fix the problem. Make everything that is “bad” so expensive that folk can’t afford it. So, for example, impose a tax surcharge on flights of £1,000 per flight regardless of distance. Make petrol £10 per litre. Of course, some folk will still be able to afford it. But 99% won’t, so we cut emissions massively. Everyone’s a winner. Or a loser if you miss being able to drive your car, or head off to the Canaries for your summer hols. But, if you’re filthy rich, so much the better; those crowded beaches will be so much better without the plebs messing it up. Or switch "problem" with "solution". This is what swedish liberal politicians have tried to do for ages with the appartments here in Sweden to get rid off the queues. Sometimes I seriously believe they are mentally challenged. I wonder if the resistance movement will be able to hold on that long. The rents are rising. Even if having a roof over ones head not necessarily is "bad". I don’t understand your point! There is a definite problem with the notion that the rich ride out the changes in lifestyle everyone else has to make because they can afford to drive, fly, buy clothes etc. This, btw, is the message young Greta is inadvertently peddling.
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Post by musik on Aug 18, 2019 10:04:41 GMT
Would urge all especially some on this thread to give it a listen. I listened smscfc. The other video was better. Thanks again for that upliftning piece, it gave me some hope!🙂 There really are some good stuff at TEDx. In this one, what can I say ... when the arguments are gone, how people look suddenly becomes important. It's a classic. And it's tiring to hear debates where they're arguing about "you said that" or not. Greta Thunberg might have been used as a role model for the Green Movement. They see her as a spokesperson yes. I see her on tv often here, @#$n it! 😁 Is "used" always bad? Could it be a win-win situation? Is employment always bad? I'm pretty sure she hasn't been used by her parents. Malena isn't like that.
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Post by musik on Aug 18, 2019 10:14:56 GMT
Or switch "problem" with "solution". This is what swedish liberal politicians have tried to do for ages with the appartments here in Sweden to get rid off the queues. Sometimes I seriously believe they are mentally challenged. I wonder if the resistance movement will be able to hold on that long. The rents are rising. Even if having a roof over ones head not necessarily is "bad". I don’t understand your point! There is a definite problem with the notion that the rich ride out the changes in lifestyle everyone else has to make because they can afford to drive, fly, buy clothes etc. This, btw, is the message young Greta is inadvertently peddling. I see it as an environmental problem. It's better if a few destroy the planet, than if many or all do it. I agree, wealth distribution in the world is severly biased. "Disgusting", as Lilfraise wrote. I agree on that. But I see it as another question. Most people do.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 19, 2019 22:20:00 GMT
I don’t understand your point! There is a definite problem with the notion that the rich ride out the changes in lifestyle everyone else has to make because they can afford to drive, fly, buy clothes etc. This, btw, is the message young Greta is inadvertently peddling. I see it as an environmental problem. It's better if a few destroy the planet, than if many or all do it. I agree, wealth distribution in the world is severly biased. "Disgusting", as Lilfraise wrote. I agree on that. But I see it as another question. Most people do. A good example of one rule for the rich, another for everyone else with a good dose of royal hypocrisy thrown in for good measure. The Sun captures it nicely: Eco-warriors’ Meghan Markle and Prince Harry fly on private jet again to France after gas-guzzling Ibiza tripDo as I say, not as I do or rather, do as one says, not as one does.
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Post by foster on Aug 20, 2019 6:02:51 GMT
I see it as an environmental problem. It's better if a few destroy the planet, than if many or all do it. I agree, wealth distribution in the world is severly biased. "Disgusting", as Lilfraise wrote. I agree on that. But I see it as another question. Most people do. A good example of one rule for the rich, another for everyone else with a good dose of royal hypocrisy thrown in for good measure. The Sun captures it nicely: Eco-warriors’ Meghan Markle and Prince Harry fly on private jet again to France after gas-guzzling Ibiza tripDo as I say, not as I do or rather, do as one says, not as one does. The rich have always got away and been able to do more than the poor. Since forever. You could compare our standard of living to those in poverty stricken parts of the world in Africa, Middle East, etc. We pollute, consume and waste far more than them, simply because we can afford it. It's a shit excuse for not being green now. If everyone had that mentality nothing would ever get done. The priority is the planet, not still being to fly away to Gran Canaria (or wherever) on holiday (as someone mentioned in a earlier post). I'm happy to take a little less comfort or fewer holiday options in return for a greener lifestyle.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 20, 2019 6:11:27 GMT
The rich have always got away and been able to do more than the poor. Since forever. You could compare our standard of living to those in poverty stricken parts of the world in Africa, Middle East, etc. We pollute, consume and waste far more than them, simply because we can afford it. It's a shit excuse for not being green now. If everyone had that mentality nothing would ever get done. The priority is the planet, not still being to fly away to Gran Canaria (or wherever) on holiday (as someone mentioned in a earlier post). I'm happy to take a little less comfort or fewer holiday options in return for a greener lifestyle. Very true. But, I guess the point is, is it ok for the rich to lecture everyone else on the environment promoting a more sustainable lifestyle then doing the opposite in return. You think they should be doing their bit and walk the talk.
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Post by musik on Aug 20, 2019 6:35:26 GMT
They are laughable. Couldn't they have used a Jaguar I-Pace instead, if it's the privacy they want? Time is an important factor here. I personally recycle as much as I can, I have never in my life thrown away any food! I fix things all the time, old electronics, clothes, socks etc. Seldom buy new things. I walk regularly several hundred meters to recycle plastic, metall parts, glass bottles. I walk to another station for the light bulbs, batteries etc. I wait at a third station when their eco van comes to collect the small out of function electronic stuff, chemicals etc two times a year. I never go by plane or car and nowadays not even by bus. I don't have a bicycle, so I walk. 95% walk, 5% tram. I wonder what many of the eco fighters do. I don't even call myself one. Their argument? Time. It's all about time. One of many important eco fighter researchers explained it with, he "has to go by plane to get to all those important meetings in time". It was almost funny when one of the two presenters at a tv program here recently about the climate, called "Ekdal vs Ekdal" (pretty good, fact based) had to announce that the influental climate expert guest had to rush to catch a plane to Paris ... Couldn't they use pc w video chat?
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Post by musik on Aug 20, 2019 6:57:32 GMT
Africa, Middle East, etc. We pollute --- more than them, simply because we can afford it. Most people I know would say the opposite though, that 85-90% of the climate change problems (if there are any) and pollution, comes from Africa, Asia and the Middle East: with their factories w old technique, and their garbage in the water and lack of recycling, they would say. Therefore they vote for parties that sincerely mean there's no global warming, we have no environmental issues whatsoever - it's all part of natural cycles. Unfortunately that's their perspective. But I'm more interested in facts. To me it's obvious we have a problem, when I think of all the species and plants no longer with us for environmental reasons, not by natural causes. That should be enough to understand.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 20, 2019 6:57:43 GMT
They are laughable. Couldn't they have used a Jaguar I-Pace instead, if it's the privacy they want? Time is an important factor here. I personally recycle as much as I can, I have never in my life thrown away any food! I fix things all the time, old electronics, clothes, socks etc. Seldom buy new things. I walk regularly several hundred meters to recycle plastic, metall parts, glass bottles. I walk to another station for the light bulbs, batteries etc. I wait at a third station when their eco van comes to collect the small out of function electronic stuff, chemicals etc two times a year. I never go by plane or car and nowadays not even by bus. I don't have a bicycle, so I walk. 95% walk, 5% tram. I wonder what many of the eco fighters do. I don't even call myself one. Their argument? Time. It's all about time. One of many important eco fighter researchers explained it with, he "has to go by plane to get to all those important meetings in time". It was almost funny when one of the two presenters at a tv program here recently about the climate, called "Ekdal vs Ekdal" (pretty good, fact based) had to announce that the influental climate expert guest had to rush to catch a plane to Paris ... Couldn't they use pc w video chat? They could holiday in the UK. It’s not as if they are short of places to go to or, to be more accurate, they are not short of palaces to go to.
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Post by foster on Aug 20, 2019 8:35:56 GMT
They are laughable. Couldn't they have used a Jaguar I-Pace instead, if it's the privacy they want? Time is an important factor here. I personally recycle as much as I can, I have never in my life thrown away any food! I fix things all the time, old electronics, clothes, socks etc. Seldom buy new things. I walk regularly several hundred meters to recycle plastic, metall parts, glass bottles. I walk to another station for the light bulbs, batteries etc. I wait at a third station when their eco van comes to collect the small out of function electronic stuff, chemicals etc two times a year. I never go by plane or car and nowadays not even by bus. I don't have a bicycle, so I walk. 95% walk, 5% tram. I wonder what many of the eco fighters do. I don't even call myself one. Their argument? Time. It's all about time. One of many important eco fighter researchers explained it with, he "has to go by plane to get to all those important meetings in time". It was almost funny when one of the two presenters at a tv program here recently about the climate, called "Ekdal vs Ekdal" (pretty good, fact based) had to announce that the influental climate expert guest had to rush to catch a plane to Paris ... Couldn't they use pc w video chat? They could holiday in the UK. It’s not as if they are short of places to go to or, to be more accurate, they are not short of palaces to go to. Think someone on here mentioned it before. That 30 years ago people barely went abroad on holiday, or maybe once per year. Nowadays people go every few months and if you don't go abroad it's viewed as not exotic, boring and like you can't afford to fly anywhere. Anyway, with all this global warming people won't need to fly to North Africa, Spain or Turkey for their hot weather beach holidays. They'll be able to get them here in the UK.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 20, 2019 8:46:14 GMT
One problem with Greta’s approach to climate change is it indirectly supports one very efficient approach to fix the problem. Make everything that is “bad” so expensive that folk can’t afford it. So, for example, impose a tax surcharge on flights of £1,000 per flight regardless of distance. Make petrol £10 per litre. Of course, some folk will still be able to afford it. But 99% won’t, so we cut emissions massively. Everyone’s a winner. Or a loser if you miss being able to drive your car, or head off to the Canaries for your summer hols. But, if you’re filthy rich, so much the better; those crowded beaches will be so much better without the plebs messing it up. Totally agree. I think it's the new religion and preaches to working class people that basically everything we do is wrong. I was also pretty sickened watching Gove et al fawning all over this kid, just to make them seem "with it". I would like to know who's really pushing this.
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 20, 2019 9:03:18 GMT
One problem with Greta’s approach to climate change is it indirectly supports one very efficient approach to fix the problem. Make everything that is “bad” so expensive that folk can’t afford it. So, for example, impose a tax surcharge on flights of £1,000 per flight regardless of distance. Make petrol £10 per litre. Of course, some folk will still be able to afford it. But 99% won’t, so we cut emissions massively. Everyone’s a winner. Or a loser if you miss being able to drive your car, or head off to the Canaries for your summer hols. But, if you’re filthy rich, so much the better; those crowded beaches will be so much better without the plebs messing it up. The filthy rich don’t need to take flights. They have Super Yachts, replete with their own private army. When the $#!t hits the fan, they will just set sail...
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Post by foster on Aug 20, 2019 9:29:36 GMT
One problem with Greta’s approach to climate change is it indirectly supports one very efficient approach to fix the problem. Make everything that is “bad” so expensive that folk can’t afford it. So, for example, impose a tax surcharge on flights of £1,000 per flight regardless of distance. Make petrol £10 per litre. Of course, some folk will still be able to afford it. But 99% won’t, so we cut emissions massively. Everyone’s a winner. Or a loser if you miss being able to drive your car, or head off to the Canaries for your summer hols. But, if you’re filthy rich, so much the better; those crowded beaches will be so much better without the plebs messing it up. Totally agree. I think it's the new religion and preaches to working class people that basically everything we do is wrong. I was also pretty sickened watching Gove et al fawning all over this kid, just to make them seem "with it". I would like to know who's really pushing this. It's not a religion. It's people reacting to a problem and not pretending that it doesn't exist. Like these people who whinge and moan about apparent 'do gooders / eco-warriors' and use it as an excuse not to change their own behaviour. It comes down to common sense and everyone is accountable for their own behaviour. Not someone elses. If people don't want to try to be greener then they don't have to be. Just don't be pussies about it and point the finger at others.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 20, 2019 10:12:11 GMT
Totally agree. I think it's the new religion and preaches to working class people that basically everything we do is wrong. I was also pretty sickened watching Gove et al fawning all over this kid, just to make them seem "with it". I would like to know who's really pushing this. It's not a religion. It's people reacting to a problem and not pretending that it doesn't exist. Like these people who whinge and moan about apparent 'do gooders / eco-warriors' and use it as an excuse not to change their own behaviour. It comes down to common sense and everyone is accountable for their own behaviour. Not someone elses. If people don't want to try to be greener then they don't have to be. Just don't be pussies about it and point the finger at others. Pussies for not agreeing? It's every fucking thread, now. I agree with Partick, it's getting ridiculous. Eat less meat? Do you think that the Royal family will take any notice of that? Are they pussies, or do they think it's bollocks, too. Then it's don't fly or use a car. Well I don't drive, so I'm alright flying, then? It's getting like Big Brother, telling you what to eat, drink, where to go and how! To me, it's more of a pussy attitude to agree to being monitored like this. Oh, look at my carbon footprint! What a load of shit. I will be eating meat at least once today, because I can afford to at the moment. There's been plenty of times I haven't been able to. And when I can afford to holiday overseas again, I will. Its called freedom, and I quite like it. You pussy.
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Post by foster on Aug 20, 2019 10:41:12 GMT
It's not a religion. It's people reacting to a problem and not pretending that it doesn't exist. Like these people who whinge and moan about apparent 'do gooders / eco-warriors' and use it as an excuse not to change their own behaviour. It comes down to common sense and everyone is accountable for their own behaviour. Not someone elses. If people don't want to try to be greener then they don't have to be. Just don't be pussies about it and point the finger at others. Pussies for not agreeing? It's every fucking thread, now. I agree with Partick, it's getting ridiculous. Eat less meat? Do you think that the Royal family will take any notice of that? Are they pussies, or do they think it's bollocks, too. Then it's don't fly or use a car. Well I don't drive, so I'm alright flying, then? It's getting like Big Brother, telling you what to eat, drink, where to go and how! To me, it's more of a pussy attitude to agree to being monitored like this. Oh, look at my carbon footprint! What a load of shit. I will be eating meat at least once today, because I can afford to at the moment. There's been plenty of times I haven't been able to. And when I can afford to holiday overseas again, I will. Its called freedom, and I quite like it. You pussy. You can do whatever you want. No one has said otherwise. I'm just saying that it's a pussy-arsed lame excuse for anyone to blame others for you not making any effort. I couldn't give a fuck what Harry, Meghan, Greta or any other people do. I don't need to copy or criticise their behaviour. I don't do as much as Musik does but I try to make some effort and I can live with that. I won't however blame other people for me not doing more. To be honest, you sound like a right whiny cunt going on about people telling you what to eat or how to travel. No ones put a gun to your head and you're only crying about it because it might disrupt your own comfort in the future. The implications of climate change are going to impact 'nearly' everyone in the future, whether you cry about it or not.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 20, 2019 10:44:47 GMT
Pussies for not agreeing? It's every fucking thread, now. I agree with Partick, it's getting ridiculous. Eat less meat? Do you think that the Royal family will take any notice of that? Are they pussies, or do they think it's bollocks, too. Then it's don't fly or use a car. Well I don't drive, so I'm alright flying, then? It's getting like Big Brother, telling you what to eat, drink, where to go and how! To me, it's more of a pussy attitude to agree to being monitored like this. Oh, look at my carbon footprint! What a load of shit. I will be eating meat at least once today, because I can afford to at the moment. There's been plenty of times I haven't been able to. And when I can afford to holiday overseas again, I will. Its called freedom, and I quite like it. You pussy. You can do whatever you want. No one has said otherwise. I'm just saying that it's a pussy-arsed lame excuse for anyone to blame others for you not making any effort. I couldn't give a fuck what Harry, Meghan, Greta or any other people do. I don't need to copy or criticise their behaviour. I don't do as much as Musik does but I try to make some effort and I can live with that. I won't however blame other people for me not doing more. To be honest, you sound like a right whiny cunt going on about people telling you what to eat or how to travel. No ones put a gun to your head and you're only crying about it because it might disrupt your own comfort in the future. The implications of climate change are going to impact 'nearly' everyone in the future, whether you cry about it or not. Pisser.
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Post by vokeswagen on Aug 20, 2019 12:00:29 GMT
Only on the GDB would a 16 year old girl get short shrift for having the gall to try and save mankind from its own stupidity
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Post by serpico on Aug 20, 2019 12:59:40 GMT
Only on the GDB would a 16 year old girl get short shrift for having the gall to try and save mankind from its own stupidity If this was a 16 year old going around giving pro free market speeches the left would pillory them mercilessly.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 20, 2019 13:04:48 GMT
Only on the GDB would a 16 year old girl get short shrift for having the gall to try and save mankind from its own stupidity If this was a 16 year old going around giving pro free market speeches the left would pillory them mercilessly. Utter hypocrisy. The board is full of it. The left leaning "liberals" are by far the most vehement on here.
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Post by upthefud on Aug 20, 2019 13:05:44 GMT
It’s poor form from Banks, but it’s not as bad as Jo Brand.
I think Gretna’s a bit of a fool personally but fair play for doing something that difficult and making a stand. Banks making a joke about two people possibly encountering difficulties at sea is a shit thing to do.
Brand was actually encouraging people to swap milkshakes with battery acid, Banks wasn’t encouraging people to drown at sea (not condoning it by any means)
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Post by vokeswagen on Aug 20, 2019 13:08:25 GMT
Only on the GDB would a 16 year old girl get short shrift for having the gall to try and save mankind from its own stupidity If this was a 16 year old going around giving pro free market speeches the left would pillory them mercilessly. Trying to turn the end of life as we know it into a simple matter of "the left" vs "the right" point scoring. Way to be part of the problem, pal
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Post by vokeswagen on Aug 20, 2019 13:12:19 GMT
If this was a 16 year old going around giving pro free market speeches the left would pillory them mercilessly. Utter hypocrisy. The board is full of it. The left leaning "liberals" are by far the most vehement on here. Again. I didn't bring politics into this. The issue goes way above and beyond your political party or "wing". But in an utterly predictable and lamentably unintelligent fashion, people on here mistake caring about the planet for being "left wing", and therefore eschew it out of spite. Self defeating beyond parody.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 20, 2019 13:48:13 GMT
Utter hypocrisy. The board is full of it. The left leaning "liberals" are by far the most vehement on here. Again. I didn't bring politics into this. The issue goes way above and beyond your political party or "wing". But in an utterly predictable and lamentably unintelligent fashion, people on here mistake caring about the planet for being "left wing", and therefore eschew it out of spite. Self defeating beyond parody. You prove it again. Who doesn't care about the planet? Is me flying to Rhodes once in a blue moon endangering it? I didn't say it was lefty or liberal to care about the planet, I said lefties and liberals tend to be the most strident "I am always right" types, at least in my experience. As for hypocrisy, who has turned Brexit into a solely right wing project on that thread, when many on the left want to leave the EU as well?
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Post by vokeswagen on Aug 20, 2019 14:34:17 GMT
Again. I didn't bring politics into this. The issue goes way above and beyond your political party or "wing". But in an utterly predictable and lamentably unintelligent fashion, people on here mistake caring about the planet for being "left wing", and therefore eschew it out of spite. Self defeating beyond parody. You prove it again. Who doesn't care about the planet? Is me flying to Rhodes once in a blue moon endangering it? I didn't say it was lefty or liberal to care about the planet, I said lefties and liberals tend to be the most strident "I am always right" types, at least in my experience. As for hypocrisy, who has turned Brexit into a solely right wing project on that thread, when many on the left want to leave the EU as well? No offence but you've lost the plot here mate. You have a guy joking about a 16 year old girl drowning at sea and you're more concerned with complaining about how some people are telling you climate change is a pretty serious issue. Which it is. Literally no one is stopping you from going to Rhodes, although people ARE pointing out that we can all do stuff to mitigate the effects of climate change. Which we can. Thunberg herself has said repeatedly that this isn't about left or right. Yet you're trying to turn it into that in a frankly absurd attempt to imply it's all just a load of yogurt knitting tree hugging nanny state lefty bullying so that you can go to Rhodes guilt-free. Well it doesn't wash I'm afraid. If you don't like Thunberg's warnings, then don't read about them - that's democracy. As to your question about Brexit - no idea.
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Post by serpico on Aug 20, 2019 14:59:19 GMT
Utter hypocrisy. The board is full of it. The left leaning "liberals" are by far the most vehement on here. Again. I didn't bring politics into this. The issue goes way above and beyond your political party or "wing". But in an utterly predictable and lamentably unintelligent fashion, people on here mistake caring about the planet for being "left wing", and therefore eschew it out of spite. Self defeating beyond parody. I care for the planet, we should aim to be clean and as environmentally friendly as possible, I just don’t buy into Thunberg and co fear mongering and apocalyptic predictions. think they’re the political ones, they’re using climate change issue to push an anti capitalist agenda.
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