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Post by wolfinsheepsclothing on Jul 18, 2019 6:48:26 GMT
"Isn't destructive or athletic enough" ????????? Allen probably won us more possession than any other player in our team!!! He regularly covered more ground than any other player in the team!!!!!! He covers ground because he loses the ball more than any other player in the squad, which is a stat your forwards and wingers should be leading every time. Not your central midfielders either side of the halfway line. He has good points, I've said that but the fact is he doesn't justify his wage when there's a shit tonne of better midfielders out there (Pearson, Klich, Norwood, Sawyers) who are specialised and don't suffer from Allen's jack of all trades issues. I don't want jack of all trades because they tend to do ok rather than thrive. Weighted per 90 mins in the league he's a bang average centre midfielder. If he's half as good as people make out on here he'd be tearing this league to shreds. No one thinks Benik Afobe is a good striker for us just because he was the best of a bad bunch of forwards last year, so why does the same logic apply to Allen among midfielders. (where I'd argue he wasn't even the best anyway) Liverpool fans actually called him Average Joe Something tells me he will do better this year now that Jones is using his own methods and players. Fingers crossed.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jul 18, 2019 7:47:08 GMT
All this poison for joe allen on multiple threads completely and utterly mystifies me. If stoke have a tilt at a good season, you can pretty much guarantee joe will have a big part in it IMHO. He’s appeared in every competitive league game since his signing under four different managers and sets of coaching staff and yet he’s not good enough according to some. Attachment Deleted Perhaps the professionals see things that some don’t
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jul 18, 2019 7:52:19 GMT
All this poison for joe allen on multiple threads completely and utterly mystifies me. If stoke have a tilt at a good season, you can pretty much guarantee joe will have a big part in it IMHO. He’s appeared in every competitive league game since his signing under four different managers and sets of coaching staff and yet he’s not good enough according to some. View Attachment Perhaps the professionals see things that some don’t And we've been shite as a team ever since he signed...the one constant....joe Allen. He's just a meh footballer.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jul 18, 2019 7:58:45 GMT
He’s appeared in every competitive league game since his signing under four different managers and sets of coaching staff and yet he’s not good enough according to some. Perhaps the professionals see things that some don’t And we've been shite as a team ever since he signed...the one constant....joe Allen. He's just a meh footballer. You’re correct. Our decline lies completely at the feet of Joe Allen. I bow to superior knowledge and understanding of football.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2019 8:04:37 GMT
All this poison for joe allen on multiple threads completely and utterly mystifies me. If stoke have a tilt at a good season, you can pretty much guarantee joe will have a big part in it IMHO. He’s appeared in every competitive league game since his signing under four different managers and sets of coaching staff and yet he’s not good enough according to some. View Attachment Perhaps the professionals see things that some don’t I mean in that time we've been relegated and performed utterly shite in the league below and finished in the lower mid-table. And he's been there for all of it. Not a great argument really.
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Post by kelw on Jul 18, 2019 8:05:31 GMT
He covers ground because he loses the ball more than any other player in the squad, which is a stat your forwards and wingers should be leading every time. Not your central midfielders either side of the halfway line. He has good points, I've said that but the fact is he doesn't justify his wage when there's a shit tonne of better midfielders out there (Pearson, Klich, Norwood, Sawyers) who are specialised and don't suffer from Allen's jack of all trades issues. I don't want jack of all trades because they tend to do ok rather than thrive. Weighted per 90 mins in the league he's a bang average centre midfielder. If he's half as good as people make out on here he'd be tearing this league to shreds. No one thinks Benik Afobe is a good striker for us just because he was the best of a bad bunch of forwards last year, so why does the same logic apply to Allen among midfielders. (where I'd argue he wasn't even the best anyway) Liverpool fans actually called him Average Joe Something tells me he will do better this year now that Jones is using his own methods and players. Fingers crossed. 'Liverpool fans'.....really
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jul 18, 2019 8:09:06 GMT
He’s appeared in every competitive league game since his signing under four different managers and sets of coaching staff and yet he’s not good enough according to some. Perhaps the professionals see things that some don’t I mean in that time we've been relegated and performed utterly shite in the league below and finished in the lower mid-table. And he's been there for all of it. Not a great argument really. You’re correct. Our decline lies completely at the feet of Joe Allen. I bow to superior knowledge and understanding of football
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2019 8:12:15 GMT
I mean in that time we've been relegated and performed utterly shite in the league below and finished in the lower mid-table. And he's been there for all of it. Not a great argument really. You’re correct. Our decline lies completely at the feet of Joe Allen. I bow to superior knowledge and understanding of football I think a lot of it does yeah. Hughes definitely got the idea of a back 3 watching Wales in the Euros and signed the player he believed that could make that work here. And every since we've got dramatically worse. He hasn't found a position in the midfield that his because they don't really trust him but just like that he grafts. The graft being his biggest downfall meaning too gaps forms and others have to fill them in. He's been a disastrous signing. The sooner he leaves the better.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 18, 2019 8:18:21 GMT
All this poison for joe allen on multiple threads completely and utterly mystifies me. If stoke have a tilt at a good season, you can pretty much guarantee joe will have a big part in it IMHO. He’s appeared in every competitive league game since his signing under four different managers and sets of coaching staff and yet he’s not good enough according to some. View Attachment Perhaps the professionals see things that some don’t We've gone from strength to strength in those seasons too. Again, I reiterate, Joe Allen isn't "shit or wank" he's an exceptionally versatile players with great effort and a big heart who genuinely cares about the club. But how many games have you watched over the last 3 years where we've looked like having a balanced midfield. How many games have we lost the middle of the park and ended up passing round our own back 4? That's because we lack the midfielders capable of passing progressively from their own half of which Allen is one of the worst offenders. His versatility is to his detriment, he constantly moves around the midfield and can never settle. He's played in about 3 different positions and 7 different roles and I still can't work out what the best position for him is. In these roles he performs adequately but he never excels. Which is the entire point I'm making, we need specialists and in a role requiring utmost tactical discipline we need players to retain the ball in the middle and not give it away which Ben Pearson does, or if they are prone to giving it away compensate for it through being progressive passers which Klich and Sawyers are. Allen was the worst midfielder in our squad for giving the ball away last year. That is fact. His appearance stats suggest he's rarely injured and as one of the senior players on one of the highest wages he should be playing 90% plus worth of games, but for that money and for his standing in the game I'd expect better than averaging in the 20s for most stats compared to all other midfielders in the Championship weighted per 90 mins. He gets goals and assists you say? Yeah he does but when you play 90 minutes week in week out you'll top some charts on volume alone. Weighted per 90 mins in our squad he's 9th for assists and 8th for goals. When you extrapolate out into the Championship among other central midfielders from CDM to CM who have played more than 20 games he's 22nd in the League for assists and 17th for key passes. Bang average compared to the other midfielders I've mentioned 2 of which play for other mid-table sides. Defensively he's 19th for interceptions and 12th for successful tackles. The latter of these is a decent enough placing but is completely thrown off by the fact he's the 3rd worst player in the entire league CM pool for being dispossessed. For the reputation he has in the game, and how many appearances he makes he should be much higher on virtually all counts. That's not me saying he's shit or terrible, that's me saying he's an average footballer because when you look at the stats he patently is. Playing a lot of games to me just reinforces this fact because it gives you an ever bigger pool of games to look at. I'm not even saying sling him, I'm just saying it wouldn't hurt to have a glimpse of a midfield without him at times and there are plenty of other options I would sign if you gave me the chance to. That's not an unreasonable opinion to have I think, based on what I've just presented.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2019 8:27:33 GMT
He’s appeared in every competitive league game since his signing under four different managers and sets of coaching staff and yet he’s not good enough according to some. View Attachment Perhaps the professionals see things that some don’t We've gone from strength to strength in those seasons too. Again, I reiterate, Joe Allen isn't "shit or wank" he's an exceptionally versatile players with great effort and a big heart who genuinely cares about the club. But how many games have you watched over the last 3 years where we've looked like having a balanced midfield. How many games have we lost the middle of the park and ended up passing round our own back 4? That's because we lack the midfielders capable of passing progressively from their own half of which Allen is one of the worst offenders. His versatility is to his detriment, he constantly moves around the midfield and can never settle. He's played in about 3 different positions and 7 different roles and I still can't work out what the best position for him is. In these roles he performs adequately but he never excels. Which is the entire point I'm making, we need specialists and in a role requiring utmost tactical discipline we need players to retain the ball in the middle and not give it away which Ben Pearson does, or if they are prone to giving it away compensate for it through being progressive passers which Klich and Sawyers are. which he was the worst player in our squad for last year. That is a fact. His appearance stats suggest he's rarely injured and as one of the senior players on one of the highest wages he should be playing 90% plus worth of games, but for that money and for his standing in the game I'd expect better than averaging in the 20s for most stats compared to all other midfielders in the Championship weighted per 90 mins. He gets goals and assists you say? Yeah he does but when you play 90 minutes week in week out you'll top some charts on volume alone. Weighted per 90 mins in our squad he's 9th for assists and 8th for goals. When you extrapolate out into the Championship among other central midfielders from CDM to CM who have played more than 20 games he's 22nd in the League for assists and 17th for key passes. Bang average compared to the other midfielders I've mentioned 2 of which play for other mid-table sides. Defensively he's 19th for interceptions and 12th for successful tackles. The latter of these is a decent enough placing but is completely thrown off by the fact he's the 3rd worst player in the entire league CM pool for being dispossessed. For the reputation he has in the game, and how many appearances he makes he should be much higher on virtually all counts. That's not me saying he's shit or terrible, that's me saying he's an average footballer because when you look at the stats he patently is. Playing a lot of games to me just reinforces this fact because it gives you an ever bigger pool of games to look at. I'm not even saying sling him, I'm just saying it wouldn't hurt to have a glimpse of a midfield without him at times and there are plenty of other options I would sign if you gave me the chance to. That's not an unreasonable opinion to have I think, based on what I've just presented. Is he versatile? He looked awful as a 10. Didn't link the play up one bit. He's a holding metronome and that's about it. People thinking he's versatile has been the downfall!
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 18, 2019 8:28:48 GMT
We've gone from strength to strength in those seasons too. Again, I reiterate, Joe Allen isn't "shit or wank" he's an exceptionally versatile players with great effort and a big heart who genuinely cares about the club. But how many games have you watched over the last 3 years where we've looked like having a balanced midfield. How many games have we lost the middle of the park and ended up passing round our own back 4? That's because we lack the midfielders capable of passing progressively from their own half of which Allen is one of the worst offenders. His versatility is to his detriment, he constantly moves around the midfield and can never settle. He's played in about 3 different positions and 7 different roles and I still can't work out what the best position for him is. In these roles he performs adequately but he never excels. Which is the entire point I'm making, we need specialists and in a role requiring utmost tactical discipline we need players to retain the ball in the middle and not give it away which Ben Pearson does, or if they are prone to giving it away compensate for it through being progressive passers which Klich and Sawyers are. which he was the worst player in our squad for last year. That is a fact. His appearance stats suggest he's rarely injured and as one of the senior players on one of the highest wages he should be playing 90% plus worth of games, but for that money and for his standing in the game I'd expect better than averaging in the 20s for most stats compared to all other midfielders in the Championship weighted per 90 mins. He gets goals and assists you say? Yeah he does but when you play 90 minutes week in week out you'll top some charts on volume alone. Weighted per 90 mins in our squad he's 9th for assists and 8th for goals. When you extrapolate out into the Championship among other central midfielders from CDM to CM who have played more than 20 games he's 22nd in the League for assists and 17th for key passes. Bang average compared to the other midfielders I've mentioned 2 of which play for other mid-table sides. Defensively he's 19th for interceptions and 12th for successful tackles. The latter of these is a decent enough placing but is completely thrown off by the fact he's the 3rd worst player in the entire league CM pool for being dispossessed. For the reputation he has in the game, and how many appearances he makes he should be much higher on virtually all counts. That's not me saying he's shit or terrible, that's me saying he's an average footballer because when you look at the stats he patently is. Playing a lot of games to me just reinforces this fact because it gives you an ever bigger pool of games to look at. I'm not even saying sling him, I'm just saying it wouldn't hurt to have a glimpse of a midfield without him at times and there are plenty of other options I would sign if you gave me the chance to. That's not an unreasonable opinion to have I think, based on what I've just presented. Is he versatile? He looked awful as a 10. Didn't link the play up one bit. He's a holding metronome and that's about it. People thinking he's versatile has been the downfall! Well yeah, that's probably a better way of putting it. His willingness to play in other positions is to his detriment, but to a manager whether it's a good or a bad thing in reality it's probably incredibly appealing to have a player who does that.
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Post by potterpaul on Jul 18, 2019 10:33:35 GMT
All this poison for joe allen on multiple threads completely and utterly mystifies me. If stoke have a tilt at a good season, you can pretty much guarantee joe will have a big part in it IMHO. He’s appeared in every competitive league game since his signing under four different managers and sets of coaching staff and yet he’s not good enough according to some. View Attachment Perhaps the professionals see things that some don’t Now plot the trajectory of the clubs league position on each season he's been here
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jul 18, 2019 11:11:14 GMT
He’s appeared in every competitive league game since his signing under four different managers and sets of coaching staff and yet he’s not good enough according to some. Perhaps the professionals see things that some don’t Now plot the trajectory of the clubs league position on each season he's been here You’re correct. Our decline lies completely at the feet of Joe Allen. Let’s forget the the contribution(s) of; Imbula Wimmer Jese Berahino Stafylidis Bauer Martina etc etc Try to imagine playing with, or attempting to play with the likes of those. Its all about opinions so fair enough.
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Post by philb on Jul 18, 2019 11:18:36 GMT
He’s appeared in every competitive league game since his signing under four different managers and sets of coaching staff and yet he’s not good enough according to some. View Attachment Perhaps the professionals see things that some don’t I mean in that time we've been relegated and performed utterly shite in the league below and finished in the lower mid-table. And he's been there for all of it. Not a great argument really. So has Butland and Shawcross.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 18, 2019 11:20:52 GMT
I mean in that time we've been relegated and performed utterly shite in the league below and finished in the lower mid-table. And he's been there for all of it. Not a great argument really. So has Butland and Shawcross. Both of whom have been regularly criticised on here and at the ground.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2019 11:30:31 GMT
I mean in that time we've been relegated and performed utterly shite in the league below and finished in the lower mid-table. And he's been there for all of it. Not a great argument really. So has Butland and Shawcross. They have. You won't find me eulogising about Butland either! Shawcross missed a few games in that period and I think that helped with the general results and him not being fit hindered us massively.
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jul 18, 2019 11:46:05 GMT
And we've been shite as a team ever since he signed...the one constant....joe Allen. He's just a meh footballer. You’re correct. Our decline lies completely at the feet of Joe Allen. I bow to superior knowledge and understanding of football. The thing with Allen is, if we played him in the role he mastered for Wales in the euros.....no issues, but he has no real role that he's good at other than that one. He runs around.....a lot. He is just an average footballer.
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Post by clarkeda on Jul 18, 2019 11:51:35 GMT
He’s appeared in every competitive league game since his signing under four different managers and sets of coaching staff and yet he’s not good enough according to some. View Attachment Perhaps the professionals see things that some don’t We've gone from strength to strength in those seasons too. Again, I reiterate, Joe Allen isn't "shit or wank" he's an exceptionally versatile players with great effort and a big heart who genuinely cares about the club. But how many games have you watched over the last 3 years where we've looked like having a balanced midfield. How many games have we lost the middle of the park and ended up passing round our own back 4? That's because we lack the midfielders capable of passing progressively from their own half of which Allen is one of the worst offenders. His versatility is to his detriment, he constantly moves around the midfield and can never settle. He's played in about 3 different positions and 7 different roles and I still can't work out what the best position for him is. In these roles he performs adequately but he never excels. Which is the entire point I'm making, we need specialists and in a role requiring utmost tactical discipline we need players to retain the ball in the middle and not give it away which Ben Pearson does, or if they are prone to giving it away compensate for it through being progressive passers which Klich and Sawyers are. Allen was the worst player in our squad for giving the ball away last year. That is fact. His appearance stats suggest he's rarely injured and as one of the senior players on one of the highest wages he should be playing 90% plus worth of games, but for that money and for his standing in the game I'd expect better than averaging in the 20s for most stats compared to all other midfielders in the Championship weighted per 90 mins. He gets goals and assists you say? Yeah he does but when you play 90 minutes week in week out you'll top some charts on volume alone. Weighted per 90 mins in our squad he's 9th for assists and 8th for goals. When you extrapolate out into the Championship among other central midfielders from CDM to CM who have played more than 20 games he's 22nd in the League for assists and 17th for key passes. Bang average compared to the other midfielders I've mentioned 2 of which play for other mid-table sides. Defensively he's 19th for interceptions and 12th for successful tackles. The latter of these is a decent enough placing but is completely thrown off by the fact he's the 3rd worst player in the entire league CM pool for being dispossessed. For the reputation he has in the game, and how many appearances he makes he should be much higher on virtually all counts. That's not me saying he's shit or terrible, that's me saying he's an average footballer because when you look at the stats he patently is. Playing a lot of games to me just reinforces this fact because it gives you an ever bigger pool of games to look at. I'm not even saying sling him, I'm just saying it wouldn't hurt to have a glimpse of a midfield without him at times and there are plenty of other options I would sign if you gave me the chance to. That's not an unreasonable opinion to have I think, based on what I've just presented. Unbelievable post. 100% agree.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 19, 2019 12:37:03 GMT
www.ilmessaggero.it/frosinone/frosinone_calcio_serie_b-4628465.htmlThe Ghanaian midfielder is liked by Stoke City, Championship club, the second division of England.
Chibsah, however, is not too convinced of this possible destination and is reflecting before making a decision.
In fact, he would prefer to go to a Serie A team or a Premier League team. That is why he is flipping through the daisy even though he cannot continue to do it ad infinitum.
Sooner or later Chibsah will have to give Stoke City a positive or negative answer. But the offer of the British does not excite.
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Post by nonameface on Jul 19, 2019 12:40:07 GMT
www.ilmessaggero.it/frosinone/frosinone_calcio_serie_b-4628465.htmlThe Ghanaian midfielder is liked by Stoke City, Championship club, the second division of England.
Chibsah, however, is not too convinced of this possible destination and is reflecting before making a decision.
In fact, he would prefer to go to a Serie A team or a Premier League team. That is why he is flipping through the daisy even though he cannot continue to do it ad infinitum.
Sooner or later Chibsah will have to give Stoke City a positive or negative answer. But the offer of the British does not excite.
Having not seen him play, I'm not bothered. Would rather the Rotherham pad, but don't expect good news there.
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Post by chell_rosey on Jul 19, 2019 12:42:52 GMT
www.ilmessaggero.it/frosinone/frosinone_calcio_serie_b-4628465.htmlThe Ghanaian midfielder is liked by Stoke City, Championship club, the second division of England.
Chibsah, however, is not too convinced of this possible destination and is reflecting before making a decision.
In fact, he would prefer to go to a Serie A team or a Premier League team. That is why he is flipping through the daisy even though he cannot continue to do it ad infinitum.
Sooner or later Chibsah will have to give Stoke City a positive or negative answer. But the offer of the British does not excite.
Okay. Move on...
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Post by dreamtheater on Jul 19, 2019 12:45:35 GMT
Warning signs are clearly there. will we ever learn ?
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Post by somersetstokie on Jul 19, 2019 13:01:40 GMT
www.ilmessaggero.it/frosinone/frosinone_calcio_serie_b-4628465.htmlThe Ghanaian midfielder is liked by Stoke City, Championship club, the second division of England.
Chibsah, however, is not too convinced of this possible destination and is reflecting before making a decision.
In fact, he would prefer to go to a Serie A team or a Premier League team. That is why he is flipping through the daisy even though he cannot continue to do it ad infinitum.
Sooner or later Chibsah will have to give Stoke City a positive or negative answer. But the offer of the British does not excite.
. Well wouldn't everybody. You can't always have what you wish for. But we wouldn't want another player who doesn't want to be here.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jul 19, 2019 13:04:24 GMT
Chibsy wants a premier club nah, it's amazing what saying you belong there might be able to do.
Absolutely gutted, chibs 🤭
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Post by stokeykez on Jul 19, 2019 15:54:03 GMT
If that's his alleged attitude he can do one, we dont need any more midfield mardarses, go get mo besic
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Post by lordb on Jul 19, 2019 16:14:57 GMT
Think we need to understand that selling Championship football to players abroad isn't easy.
Players wanting to play at the highest level they can is a good attitude not a bad one.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 19, 2019 16:18:06 GMT
www.ilmessaggero.it/frosinone/frosinone_calcio_serie_b-4628465.htmlThe Ghanaian midfielder is liked by Stoke City, Championship club, the second division of England.
Chibsah, however, is not too convinced of this possible destination and is reflecting before making a decision.
In fact, he would prefer to go to a Serie A team or a Premier League team. That is why he is flipping through the daisy even though he cannot continue to do it ad infinitum.
Sooner or later Chibsah will have to give Stoke City a positive or negative answer. But the offer of the British does not excite.
He can keep “flipping through the daisy” and flip off. If that’s true, no thanks
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Post by stokefc on Jul 19, 2019 16:28:00 GMT
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Post by kelw on Jul 19, 2019 16:32:17 GMT
Can't see any quotes from the player himself and who doesn't want to play in the Premier League over the Championship?
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 19, 2019 16:46:14 GMT
If that's his alleged attitude he can do one, we dont need any more midfield mardarses, go get mo besic Why shouldn't he want the highest league possible?
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