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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 17, 2019 19:51:45 GMT
So Corbyn supported a motion that would give them a choice and financially assist them if they chose to move back to their land of origin. Twenty years later, the Conservatives would forcibly send some of these same people back to their land of origin with fuck all. Neither of them are great ideas, but I know which one is worse. If I was a Tory I wouldn't be voluntarily putting the treatment of Carribean people in the spotlight at this election. Yawn. The decision to destroy landing cards from the Windrush generation was taken under a Labour Government. The 'hostile environment' was originally a Labour policy under Alan Johnson. Bernie Grant was a cnut and Corbyn loved him. Is that the offical party line: "Windrush - all Labour's fault and nowt to do with us" For a party that seems to preach about the importance of individual responsibilities, they seem utterly incapable of admitting their mistakes.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 17, 2019 20:37:07 GMT
So remember Bernie Grant? PC Blakelock's family do. Back in the day he proposed the Government should pay for black people to relocate to Africa or the Caribbean if they wanted to. A crazy, racially motivated concept highly dismissed as looney tunes except by a Mr J Corbyn MP. Is there any batshit nonsense that Jezza hasn't supported? So Corbyn supported a motion that would give them a choice and financially assist them if they chose to move back to their land of origin. Twenty years later, the Conservatives would forcibly send some of these same people back to their land of origin with fuck all. Neither of them are great ideas, but I know which one is worse. If I was a Tory I wouldn't be voluntarily putting the treatment of Carribean people in the spotlight at this election. That's what devil incarnate Enoch Powell was proposing, Rip. Why was he vilified for it, if it was the lesser of two evils?
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 17, 2019 20:51:10 GMT
So Corbyn supported a motion that would give them a choice and financially assist them if they chose to move back to their land of origin. Twenty years later, the Conservatives would forcibly send some of these same people back to their land of origin with fuck all. Neither of them are great ideas, but I know which one is worse. If I was a Tory I wouldn't be voluntarily putting the treatment of Carribean people in the spotlight at this election. That's what devil incarnate Enoch Powell was proposing, Rip. Why was he vilified for it, if it was the lesser of two evils? Before my time admittedly, but didn't Enoch Powell do a bit more than what was proposed in the original tweet? His Rivers of Blood speech was made in opposition to a bill that would make it illegal to refuse housing, employment and some other things to a person based on their race. I don't know massive amounts about Powell, but I've read and listened to a few things that suggest the man was far less black and white (pardon the pun) than people tend to suggest.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 17, 2019 20:53:21 GMT
That's what devil incarnate Enoch Powell was proposing, Rip. Why was he vilified for it, if it was the lesser of two evils? Before my time admittedly, but didn't Enoch Powell do a bit more than what was proposed in the original tweet? His Rivers of Blood speech was made in opposition to a bill that would make it illegal to refuse housing, employment and some other things to a person based on their race. I don't know massive amounts about Powell, but I've read and listened to a few things that suggest the man was far less black and white (pardon the pun) than people tend to suggest. A bit before my time as well Rip but... Perhaps it's worth recalling the origins of the Labour party... working people trying to protect their Jobs and families. It could be argued that in the long term integration did take place. Do posters think it is racist if a working class person has concerns about the impact of immigration on his/ her local community? ........ From the link; The Lithuanians were not made welcome in Scotland. They were seen as competition in the market for jobs, and prepared to do them for less than the indigenous workers. Employers were often accused of using them as strike-breakers. Not only were the newcomers obviously foreign, with little or no grasp of the English language, but they were also devoutly Catholic in a fiercely Presbyterian land. The Lithuanians were routinely referred to as "Poles" - the same as calling a Scotsman an Englishman! Even the Lithuanian names were subject to native ignorance, with many being changed by immigration officials and bosses at the pits to random Scottish names, Vicentas Stepsis becoming Willie Millar for example. There is even the case of a Lithuanian in Ayrshire who after signing for his pay with an X, saw his name transform into Joseph Ecks. Others changed their name voluntarily, in a bid to avoid harassment and fit into Scottish society more easily. This ignorance and hostility was apparent at all levels of society, John Wilson, the Unionist candidate for St Rollox, Glasgow, in 1900 did not believe "it proper that this country should be the dumping ground for all the paupers of Europe." Trade Unions were openly hostile, claiming that the newcomers' lack of English made them a danger at work; the Glasgow Trades Council declared the Lithuanians in Glengarnock as "an evil" and wrote to the TUC demanding immigration controls to keep them out. Even a figure such as Keir Hardie, founding father of the Labour Party, led a fierce, xenophobic campaign against the Lithuanians. Hardie, as a leader of Ayrshire miners, wrote an article for the journal, The Miner, in which he stated that: "For the second time in their history Messrs. Merry and Cunninghame have introduced a number of Russian Poles to Glengarnock Ironworks. What object they have in doing so is beyond human ken unless it is, as stated by a speaker at Irvine, to teach men how to live on garlic and oil, or introduce the Black Death, so as to get rid of the surplus labourers." www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/immig_emig/scotland/strathclyde/article_2.shtml
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 17, 2019 21:24:01 GMT
Before my time admittedly, but didn't Enoch Powell do a bit more than what was proposed in the original tweet? His Rivers of Blood speech was made in opposition to a bill that would make it illegal to refuse housing, employment and some other things to a person based on their race. I don't know massive amounts about Powell, but I've read and listened to a few things that suggest the man was far less black and white (pardon the pun) than people tend to suggest. A bit before my time as well Rip but... Perhaps it's worth recalling the origins of the Labour party... working people trying to protect their Jobs and families. It could be argued that in the long term integration did take place. Do posters think it is racist if a working class person has concerns about the impact of immigration on his/ her local community? ........ From the link; The Lithuanians were not made welcome in Scotland. They were seen as competition in the market for jobs, and prepared to do them for less than the indigenous workers. Employers were often accused of using them as strike-breakers. Not only were the newcomers obviously foreign, with little or no grasp of the English language, but they were also devoutly Catholic in a fiercely Presbyterian land. The Lithuanians were routinely referred to as "Poles" - the same as calling a Scotsman an Englishman! Even the Lithuanian names were subject to native ignorance, with many being changed by immigration officials and bosses at the pits to random Scottish names, Vicentas Stepsis becoming Willie Millar for example. There is even the case of a Lithuanian in Ayrshire who after signing for his pay with an X, saw his name transform into Joseph Ecks. Others changed their name voluntarily, in a bid to avoid harassment and fit into Scottish society more easily. This ignorance and hostility was apparent at all levels of society, John Wilson, the Unionist candidate for St Rollox, Glasgow, in 1900 did not believe "it proper that this country should be the dumping ground for all the paupers of Europe." Trade Unions were openly hostile, claiming that the newcomers' lack of English made them a danger at work; the Glasgow Trades Council declared the Lithuanians in Glengarnock as "an evil" and wrote to the TUC demanding immigration controls to keep them out. Even a figure such as Keir Hardie, founding father of the Labour Party, led a fierce, xenophobic campaign against the Lithuanians. Hardie, as a leader of Ayrshire miners, wrote an article for the journal, The Miner, in which he stated that: "For the second time in their history Messrs. Merry and Cunninghame have introduced a number of Russian Poles to Glengarnock Ironworks. What object they have in doing so is beyond human ken unless it is, as stated by a speaker at Irvine, to teach men how to live on garlic and oil, or introduce the Black Death, so as to get rid of the surplus labourers." www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/immig_emig/scotland/strathclyde/article_2.shtmlThanks for that link - it was very interesting. The earliest example I had before of immigrants being demonised way beyond the actual threat they represent was the West Indian immigration after WW2 - but unsurprisingly it goes further back than that. Probably it has always been the case that the political elite can rally people to blame a demographic of people who actually wield very little power. Interestingly Powell's speech was inspired by meeting a constituent who said that black people would dominate the country within 10-15 years, which clearly never happened. We hear the same now with Muslims - I wonder if that will prove to be similar nonsense? As for being racist - I think it's a word that is thrown about too much. People can have concerns about immigration without being racist. It would be nice if the conversation about immigration at a political level was more grounded in reality though. People very often believe that there are far more immigrants in the country than there actually is - and that can only come from mainly our media and political discourse that is happy to stoke the fears in order to gain a few votes or sell a few papers.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 17, 2019 21:41:04 GMT
A bit before my time as well Rip but... Perhaps it's worth recalling the origins of the Labour party... working people trying to protect their Jobs and families. It could be argued that in the long term integration did take place. Do posters think it is racist if a working class person has concerns about the impact of immigration on his/ her local community? ........ From the link; The Lithuanians were not made welcome in Scotland. They were seen as competition in the market for jobs, and prepared to do them for less than the indigenous workers. Employers were often accused of using them as strike-breakers. Not only were the newcomers obviously foreign, with little or no grasp of the English language, but they were also devoutly Catholic in a fiercely Presbyterian land. The Lithuanians were routinely referred to as "Poles" - the same as calling a Scotsman an Englishman! Even the Lithuanian names were subject to native ignorance, with many being changed by immigration officials and bosses at the pits to random Scottish names, Vicentas Stepsis becoming Willie Millar for example. There is even the case of a Lithuanian in Ayrshire who after signing for his pay with an X, saw his name transform into Joseph Ecks. Others changed their name voluntarily, in a bid to avoid harassment and fit into Scottish society more easily. This ignorance and hostility was apparent at all levels of society, John Wilson, the Unionist candidate for St Rollox, Glasgow, in 1900 did not believe "it proper that this country should be the dumping ground for all the paupers of Europe." Trade Unions were openly hostile, claiming that the newcomers' lack of English made them a danger at work; the Glasgow Trades Council declared the Lithuanians in Glengarnock as "an evil" and wrote to the TUC demanding immigration controls to keep them out. Even a figure such as Keir Hardie, founding father of the Labour Party, led a fierce, xenophobic campaign against the Lithuanians. Hardie, as a leader of Ayrshire miners, wrote an article for the journal, The Miner, in which he stated that: "For the second time in their history Messrs. Merry and Cunninghame have introduced a number of Russian Poles to Glengarnock Ironworks. What object they have in doing so is beyond human ken unless it is, as stated by a speaker at Irvine, to teach men how to live on garlic and oil, or introduce the Black Death, so as to get rid of the surplus labourers." www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/immig_emig/scotland/strathclyde/article_2.shtmlThanks for that link - it was very interesting. The earliest example I had before of immigrants being demonised way beyond the actual threat they represent was the West Indian immigration after WW2 - but unsurprisingly it goes further back than that. Probably it has always been the case that the political elite can rally people to blame a demographic of people who actually wield very little power. Interestingly Powell's speech was inspired by meeting a constituent who said that black people would dominate the country within 10-15 years, which clearly never happened. We hear the same now with Muslims - I wonder if that will prove to be similar nonsense? As for being racist - I think it's a word that is thrown about too much. People can have concerns about immigration without being racist. It would be nice if the conversation about immigration at a political level was more grounded in reality though. People very often believe that there are far more immigrants in the country than there actually is - and that can only come from mainly our media and political discourse that is happy to stoke the fears in order to gain a few votes or sell a few papers. My problem with Islam is that it in general is intolerant of other belief systems when it grows big enough to have an influence and unlike the west Indian immigration trues by it's very nature to challenge western values and laws and customs. A Muslim friend said to me that you will never get Islam to accept homosexuality. Although not Christianity Western culture has come to accept homosexuality. I like a degree of multiculturalism ( which admittedly may be hypocritical because it would be ' my ' degree.... although I don't think that we should be guilty to want a certain type of culture. I used to be a regular visitor to NORSACA and would recommend their meals and hospitality on Wednesday or Friday....I can only call in now when I get the chance.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 19, 2019 5:17:11 GMT
Poor unlucky Jeremy. There's but not involved. Apart from the clapping, waving and back slapping.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 19, 2019 7:24:07 GMT
Poor unlucky Jeremy. There's but not involved. Apart from the clapping, waving and back slapping. "Explode in their faces"??? Maaatron! 😁
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 19, 2019 8:00:21 GMT
Poor unlucky Jeremy. There's but not involved. Apart from the clapping, waving and back slapping. This ain’t news. The question he needs to answer is why he doesn’t provide the same support for the Uighur Muslims as he does for the Palestinians. The answer is, of course, he is more interested in the oppressor than the oppressed. It would be interesting if that came up tonight (along with a question to BoJo about how many women he’s shagged on Government expenses!)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 9:06:12 GMT
Poor unlucky Jeremy. There's but not involved. Apart from the clapping, waving and back slapping. This ain’t news. The question he needs to answer is why he doesn’t provide the same support for the Uighur Muslims as he does for the Palestinians. The answer is, of course, he is more interested in the oppressor than the oppressed. It would be interesting if that came up tonight (along with a question to BoJo about how many women he’s shagged on Government expenses!) Apart from the Yemeni Jews, the people of East Timor, Rwanda, The Democratic Republic of Congo (to name but a few) you're bang on the money with that analysis.....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 12:04:30 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 19, 2019 12:21:43 GMT
This ain’t news. The question he needs to answer is why he doesn’t provide the same support for the Uighur Muslims as he does for the Palestinians. The answer is, of course, he is more interested in the oppressor than the oppressed. It would be interesting if that came up tonight (along with a question to BoJo about how many women he’s shagged on Government expenses!) Apart from the Yemeni Jews, the people of East Timor, Rwanda, The Democratic Republic of Congo (to name but a few) you're bang on the money with that analysis..... Sorry pal - I can’t figure out what you are saying!
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Post by mattyd on Nov 19, 2019 13:40:22 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 21, 2019 10:23:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 10:47:59 GMT
Rachel Riley, the thinking man's Katie Hopkins. The woman is tapped......
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 21, 2019 10:57:51 GMT
Why Ep-shtine? Jeremy's just unlucky, again.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 21, 2019 11:11:49 GMT
Rachel Riley, the thinking man's Katie Hopkins. The woman is tapped...... Surely the end of her career?
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 21, 2019 11:16:16 GMT
Rachel Riley, the thinking man's Katie Hopkins. The woman is tapped...... I mean literally he is complaining about her t shirt because it photoshops the corbyn sign to say Jeremy Corbyn is a racist endeavour doesnt even attempt to deal with the facts of the argument just trying to start an outrage bus no surprise you and momo have tickets already.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 21, 2019 11:19:22 GMT
Rachel Riley, the thinking man's Katie Hopkins. The woman is tapped...... I mean literally he is complaining about her t shirt because it photoshops the corbyn sign to say Jeremy Corbyn is a racist endeavour doesnt even attempt to deal with the facts of the argument just trying to start an outrage bus no surprise you and momo have tickets already. Whichever way you paint it, what she has done is grossly offensive to all sorts of communities. In fact, it's pretty disgusting.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 11:22:32 GMT
Rachel Riley, the thinking man's Katie Hopkins. The woman is tapped...... I mean literally he is complaining about her t shirt because it photoshops the corbyn sign to say Jeremy Corbyn is a racist endeavour doesnt even attempt to deal with the facts of the argument just trying to start an outrage bus no surprise you and momo have tickets already. "Just trying to start an outrage bus" WTF? It's amazing how a man who is outraged by every little thing Corbyn does is talking about outrage. It's fucking priceless in fact.......
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 21, 2019 11:26:03 GMT
I mean literally he is complaining about her t shirt because it photoshops the corbyn sign to say Jeremy Corbyn is a racist endeavour doesnt even attempt to deal with the facts of the argument just trying to start an outrage bus no surprise you and momo have tickets already. Whichever way you paint it, what she has done is grossly offensive to all sorts of communities. In fact, it's pretty disgusting. Really who by the way ? Anyone with a brain can see her point is that Corbyn is a racist but it takes some chutzpah to claim a t shirt is beyond the pale and should lead to a sacking when you have happily defended someone's past associations with actual murderers and argued about who he was laying a wreath for even when he has said himself.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 21, 2019 11:28:15 GMT
I mean literally he is complaining about her t shirt because it photoshops the corbyn sign to say Jeremy Corbyn is a racist endeavour doesnt even attempt to deal with the facts of the argument just trying to start an outrage bus no surprise you and momo have tickets already. "Just trying to start an outrage bus" WTF? It's amazing how a man who is outraged by every little thing Corbyn does is talking about outrage. It's fucking priceless in fact....... Outraged not at all I just like to highlight what an odious man he is despite the attempted airbrushing but hey free broadband.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 21, 2019 11:28:57 GMT
Whichever way you paint it, what she has done is grossly offensive to all sorts of communities. In fact, it's pretty disgusting. Really who by the way ? Anyone with a brain can see her point is that Corbyn is a racist but it takes some chutzpah to claim a t shirt is beyond the pale and should lead to a sacking when you have happily defended someone's past associations with actual murderers and argued about who he was laying a wreath for even when he has said himself. Erasing an anti-apartheid message is racist in itself. Is she an apartheid denier?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 21, 2019 11:30:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 11:31:57 GMT
Why Ep-shtine? Jeremy's just unlucky, again. Ha ha ha what a load of old shite. Antisemitic for pronouncing a name the way it can actually be pronounced.....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 11:36:44 GMT
"Just trying to start an outrage bus" WTF? It's amazing how a man who is outraged by every little thing Corbyn does is talking about outrage. It's fucking priceless in fact....... Outraged not at all I just like to highlight what an odious man he is despite the attempted airbrushing but hey free broadband. You're showing your hypocrisy fella. Every little thing that Corbyn does you try and link it to antisemitism, terrorist sympathising etc. Yet when people are properly offended by something (not me, but many Jews, people who suffered under apartheid etc.) you want to talk about nuance. Your blind hatred of Corbyn has got you blinkered to actual, real bigotry and racism. It's actually very sad.......
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 21, 2019 11:40:04 GMT
Of course we know what truly motivates Riley and its not anti-racism.
He she is backing a known anti-Semite and all round bigot recently.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 11:40:07 GMT
I recommend everyone blocks the likes of Rachel Riley, Tracy Oberman and Frances Barber on Twitter, they follow bigots like Gnasher Jews and Guido Fawkes whilst trying to lecture people on antisemitism in the Labour Party (not in society as a whole, or other parties, not any other forms of racism). Pure McCartyhism, it's as transparent as hell.......
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 21, 2019 11:45:41 GMT
Really who by the way ? Anyone with a brain can see her point is that Corbyn is a racist but it takes some chutzpah to claim a t shirt is beyond the pale and should lead to a sacking when you have happily defended someone's past associations with actual murderers and argued about who he was laying a wreath for even when he has said himself. Erasing an anti-apartheid message is racist in itself. Is she an apartheid denier? Photoshopping not erasing but even if you accept that ludicrous argument, grafitti on the warsaw ghetto racist or not ? You are going to be fucking outraged when you find out a group of MP's wanted to erase the Holocaust from Holocaust memorial day then Sheiky ?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 21, 2019 13:18:58 GMT
Why Ep-shtine? Jeremy's just unlucky, again. Ha ha ha what a load of old shite. Antisemitic for pronouncing a name the way it can actually be pronounced..... Epstein was born in America. His Dad was born in America. Why would Corbyn use a European Germany pronunciation of a surname that has been in the media pronounced Ep-steen every single time? It was to highlight his Jewishness.
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