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Post by Absolution on Jul 9, 2019 12:15:37 GMT
He packed in playing 15 years ago. Times have changed massively. Anyone giving out abuse now would probably get more abuse than the footballer they were giving abuse to. I'd like to believe that but somehow I can't. Just a guess, but I'd imagine the people likely to give out homophobic abuse are the same ones who would currently aim monkey chants at black players. It's not dead by any means, but it's much reduced from the past and much more likely to be shouted down by those around them. The next footballer to come out will be followed rapidly by plenty more. They'll get overwhelming support, far outweighing any abuse. The problem in my opinion is that the first one will have a media circus around him for quite some time. That would scare the shit out of me.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jul 9, 2019 12:16:35 GMT
Leviticus 18:22 is the most often quoted anti-gay bible verse and says "Do not lie with a man as with a woman, it is an abomination". It is referenced in other parts of the bible but it's easily the most famous.
Leviticus also bans tattoos, clothes made of mixed fabric, bowl-haircuts, growing more than one type of crop in a field, and gossip.
That's before taking into consideration that if you believe in this sort of thing, that Jesus made the Old Testament's teaching obsolete as the "Golden Rule" overrides everything else, and for Christians, the OT exists purely to provide context for the new.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Jul 9, 2019 12:20:05 GMT
Plenty of players have already come out, Robbie Rogers, Thomas Hitzlsperger etc.
It makes no difference where you want to plonk your pork sword, in my eyes anyway I’ll form an opinion based on footballing talent, personal preferences are irrelevant.
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Post by franklin66 on Jul 9, 2019 12:22:42 GMT
I'd like to believe that but somehow I can't. Just a guess, but I'd imagine the people likely to give out homophobic abuse are the same ones who would currently aim monkey chants at black players. It's not dead by any means, but it's much reduced from the past and much more likely to be shouted down by those around them. The next footballer to come out will be followed rapidly by plenty more. They'll get overwhelming support, far outweighing any abuse. The problem in my opinion is that the first one will have a media circus around him for quite some time. That would scare the shit out of me. That is something I can't say when I last heard in person in this country. Swearing and abusing players but no monkey and homophobic abuse for as long as I remember.
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Post by mozalini on Jul 9, 2019 12:29:29 GMT
Just a guess, but I'd imagine the people likely to give out homophobic abuse are the same ones who would currently aim monkey chants at black players. It's not dead by any means, but it's much reduced from the past and much more likely to be shouted down by those around them. The next footballer to come out will be followed rapidly by plenty more. They'll get overwhelming support, far outweighing any abuse. The problem in my opinion is that the first one will have a media circus around him for quite some time. That would scare the shit out of me. That is something I can't say when I last heard in person in this country. Swearing and abusing players but no monkey and homophobic abuse for as long as I remember. Over the last few seasons away from home, I have heard hissing from Stoke fans against Tottenham as well as racial abuse of our own players at West Ham. I haven't attended away games since these events. As a queer man, I do not feel comfortable to travel or attend away games where I know Stoke supporters express these prejudices. Bigotry in all forms go hand in hand.
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Post by franklin66 on Jul 9, 2019 13:07:41 GMT
That is something I can't say when I last heard in person in this country. Swearing and abusing players but no monkey and homophobic abuse for as long as I remember. Over the last few seasons away from home, I have heard hissing from Stoke fans against Tottenham as well as racial abuse of our own players at West Ham. I haven't attended away games since these events. As a queer man, I do not feel comfortable to travel or attend away games where I know Stoke supporters express these prejudices. Bigotry in all forms go hand in hand. That's sad really, is it the odd divvy or something else? Like i said not something I've heard but my hearing is not what it was.
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Post by mattador78 on Jul 9, 2019 14:28:06 GMT
Leviticus 18:22 is the most often quoted anti-gay bible verse and says "Do not lie with a man as with a woman, it is an abomination". It is referenced in other parts of the bible but it's easily the most famous. Leviticus also bans tattoos, clothes made of mixed fabric, bowl-haircuts, growing more than one type of crop in a field, and gossip. That's before taking into consideration that if you believe in this sort of thing, that Jesus made the Old Testament's teaching obsolete as the "Golden Rule" overrides everything else, and for Christians, the OT exists purely to provide context for the new. Exactly what I put earlier👍
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Post by mattador78 on Jul 9, 2019 14:30:18 GMT
That is something I can't say when I last heard in person in this country. Swearing and abusing players but no monkey and homophobic abuse for as long as I remember. Over the last few seasons away from home, I have heard hissing from Stoke fans against Tottenham as well as racial abuse of our own players at West Ham. I haven't attended away games since these events. As a queer man, I do not feel comfortable to travel or attend away games where I know Stoke supporters express these prejudices. Bigotry in all forms go hand in hand. Don’t let the few outweigh the many. The more people who go who won’t do those things, the less who would do those things can attend
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Post by Robo10 on Jul 9, 2019 16:31:41 GMT
Its a sad indictment that its still an issue
To address the above - our away days are booze fuelled boys jollies for most, get on a train/coach, drink as much as possible for 3-6 hours, sing and be merry, get aggressive with stewards, police, kiosk operators, demand more beer, sing sectarian songs, pick on the oppo 'gypo', ethnic, black, tubby (usually about 12st wet through being called fat by a balding 25st bloke in ill fitting Stone Island jumper), and I guess gay would just be another string to that bow. Its really sad.
When a bit younger thats all very exciting and gets the adrenaline running, but as a 45yr old dad of 3 I dont want my kids exposed to some of that
Took the eldest (17) to the Vale mickey mouse game, it opened his eyes to what utter knobs people can be
I took him to West Brom in 2012 (was 11) when Whitehead scored a late winner, he thought it was an amazing atmosphere all game, but what he doesnt know is it was ready to explode on the concourse, pissheads (and other substances), billy hard men everywhere, it was the wild west - I just did the dad thing and kept him away from anything like that
Away games folk need to have their wits about them at all times, it can turn nasty in an instant - there are knobheads at home too but they tend to be isolated rather than together as a gang.
The odd gobshite effing and ceeing near us tend to get shut down fairly quickly - nobody cares about the odd obscenity (its a football game after all), but a constant tirade....
For what its worth, a gay footballer should have no concerns as 90% of people would be supportive, the other 10% would pick it out whether gay, asian, black etc - they are just dicks. Sadly they then influence another 10-20% of sheep who join in!
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Jul 9, 2019 20:42:03 GMT
Just a guess, but I'd imagine the people likely to give out homophobic abuse are the same ones who would currently aim monkey chants at black players. It's not dead by any means, but it's much reduced from the past and much more likely to be shouted down by those around them. The next footballer to come out will be followed rapidly by plenty more. They'll get overwhelming support, far outweighing any abuse. The problem in my opinion is that the first one will have a media circus around him for quite some time. That would scare the shit out of me. That is something I can't say when I last heard in person in this country. Swearing and abusing players but no monkey and homophobic abuse for as long as I remember. My season ticket was near a guy who would shout the N word prolifically. Usually following the words Stupid or Fucking. So it sadly still does go in, even if it’s in the minority. What you usually find happens also is that, being the sheeple “we” are, you get people joining in who wouldn’t normally dream of saying/acting that way. I’ve seen it happen. What I would like to say is that anyone who is that narrow minded and can’t see past their own narcissistic minds and participates in this kind of racist/homophobic abuse, is a horrible Nazi c*** and can literally go fuck themselves.
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 9, 2019 20:43:32 GMT
That is something I can't say when I last heard in person in this country. Swearing and abusing players but no monkey and homophobic abuse for as long as I remember. My season ticket was near a guy who would shout the N word prolifically. Usually following the words Stupid or Fucking. So it sadly still does go in, even if it’s in the minority. What you usually find happens also is that, being the sheeple “we” are, you get people joining in who wouldn’t normally dream of saying/acting that way. I’ve seen it happen. What I would like to say is that anyone who is that narrow minded and can’t see past their own narcissistic minds and participates in this kind of racist/homophobic abuse, is a horrible Nazi c*** and can literally go fuck themselves. Was he reported? You can do so anonymously by text.
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Post by franklin66 on Jul 9, 2019 20:49:39 GMT
That is something I can't say when I last heard in person in this country. Swearing and abusing players but no monkey and homophobic abuse for as long as I remember. My season ticket was near a guy who would shout the N word prolifically. Usually following the words Stupid or Fucking. So it sadly still does go in, even if it’s in the minority. What you usually find happens also is that, being the sheeple “we” are, you get people joining in who wouldn’t normally dream of saying/acting that way. I’ve seen it happen. What I would like to say is that anyone who is that narrow minded and can’t see past their own narcissistic minds and participates in this kind of racist/homophobic abuse, is a horrible Nazi c*** and can literally go fuck themselves. It's a very difficult situation to challenge such behaviour. Nobody wants to put themselves at risk if you spoke up in the stands. I assume you can report such things to the club in which case they should then covertly gather evidence and throw them out. I worked as a steward for quite a few years in the 1990s and nobody ever reported things like that to me. Away fans in the home seats yes abusive language no.
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Post by greyman on Jul 10, 2019 3:34:34 GMT
Leviticus 18:22 is the most often quoted anti-gay bible verse and says "Do not lie with a man as with a woman, it is an abomination". It is referenced in other parts of the bible but it's easily the most famous. Leviticus also bans tattoos, clothes made of mixed fabric, bowl-haircuts, growing more than one type of crop in a field, and gossip. That's before taking into consideration that if you believe in this sort of thing, that Jesus made the Old Testament's teaching obsolete as the "Golden Rule" overrides everything else, and for Christians, the OT exists purely to provide context for the new. And yet Paul's letters often conflict with the Golden Rule, Jesus says in Matthew's gospel that he's not there to challenge the old laws, and Christians still cherry pick bits from the Old Testament when it suits them. So when it comes to genuine morality, the best option is to stick to the Golden Rule and leave the Abrahamic religions out of it completely. People should keep their religions to themselves. That keeps things nice and simple about issues such as whether it's anybody else's business who other people love.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 10, 2019 5:21:56 GMT
Leviticus 18:22 is the most often quoted anti-gay bible verse and says "Do not lie with a man as with a woman, it is an abomination". It is referenced in other parts of the bible but it's easily the most famous. Leviticus also bans tattoos, clothes made of mixed fabric, bowl-haircuts, growing more than one type of crop in a field, and gossip. That's before taking into consideration that if you believe in this sort of thing, that Jesus made the Old Testament's teaching obsolete as the "Golden Rule" overrides everything else, and for Christians, the OT exists purely to provide context for the new. And yet Paul's letters often conflict with the Golden Rule, Jesus says in Matthew's gospel that he's not there to challenge the old laws, and Christians still cherry pick bits from the Old Testament when it suits them. So when it comes to genuine morality, the best option is to stick to the Golden Rule and leave the Abrahamic religions out of it completely. People should keep their religions to themselves. That keeps things nice and simple about issues such as whether it's anybody else's business who other people love. Correct there would be lot less problems if people keep there religious beliefs to themselves And even less if people kept the sexual preferences to themselves
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Post by zerps on Jul 10, 2019 6:03:24 GMT
I’m not gay but if any lads make jokes about people being gay I’ll be really cross
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 10, 2019 6:14:25 GMT
That is something I can't say when I last heard in person in this country. Swearing and abusing players but no monkey and homophobic abuse for as long as I remember. Over the last few seasons away from home, I have heard hissing from Stoke fans against Tottenham as well as racial abuse of our own players at West Ham. I haven't attended away games since these events. As a queer man, I do not feel comfortable to travel or attend away games where I know Stoke supporters express these prejudices. Bigotry in all forms go hand in hand. Just out of interest and I personally do not care what sexual preferences someone has You refer to yourself as queer Is it acceptable for myself to call you queer
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Post by nott1 on Jul 10, 2019 6:19:47 GMT
Isn't religion all made up by mankind in order to suit their own views and keep women downtrodden by making them wear silly clothes and keep their sexuality in check? No God would invent women to be slaves for men would they? It's a load of manmade bollocks!
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Post by sneydgreenstokie1 on Jul 10, 2019 6:21:55 GMT
Isn't religion all made up by mankind in order to suit their own views and keep women downtrodden by making them wear silly clothes and keep their sexuality in check? No God would invent women to be slaves for men would they? It's a load of manmade bollocks! Quite a blinkered view there, but you of course entitled to your opinion. There is little doubt, man has used religion as an excuse for control, particularly over women. However, around 75% of the world consider belief in some sort of deity fundamental to their every day lives.
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Post by nott1 on Jul 10, 2019 6:26:04 GMT
Isn't religion all made up by mankind in order to suit their own views and keep women downtrodden by making them wear silly clothes and keep their sexuality in check? No God would invent women to be slaves for men would they? It's a load of manmade bollocks! Quite a blinkered view there, but you of course entitled to your opinion. There is little doubt, man has used religion as an excuse for control, particularly over women. However, around 75% of the world consider belief in some sort of deity fundamental to their every day lives. I know but where is the proof that there is any sort of god, I just think religion is a prop for people to behave in the way they think is best? If they want to believe in it they can.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 10, 2019 6:53:03 GMT
Over the last few seasons away from home, I have heard hissing from Stoke fans against Tottenham as well as racial abuse of our own players at West Ham. I haven't attended away games since these events. As a queer man, I do not feel comfortable to travel or attend away games where I know Stoke supporters express these prejudices. Bigotry in all forms go hand in hand. Just out of interest and I personally do not care what sexual preferences someone has You refer to yourself as queer Is it acceptable for myself to call you queer It would depend on the context in which you're using the word, presumably?
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Post by PerCyfilth ....Captains Log on Jul 10, 2019 7:02:01 GMT
Just out of interest and I personally do not care what sexual preferences someone has You refer to yourself as queer Is it acceptable for myself to call you queer It would depend on the context in which you're using the word, presumably? Nowt so queer as folk? Old saying now not appropriate?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 10, 2019 7:12:28 GMT
It would depend on the context in which you're using the word, presumably? Nowt so queer as folk? Old saying now not appropriate? In that context 'queer' doesn't mean 'gay' does it?
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Post by mattador78 on Jul 10, 2019 7:17:41 GMT
Just out of interest and I personally do not care what sexual preferences someone has You refer to yourself as queer Is it acceptable for myself to call you queer It would depend on the context in which you're using the word, presumably? Probably right I have a few queer/gay/homo friends and I have called them all sorts over the years and they call me names. I think same as everything it relies on your relationship with the person and their understanding of your contrxt
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 10, 2019 7:25:43 GMT
And yet Paul's letters often conflict with the Golden Rule, Jesus says in Matthew's gospel that he's not there to challenge the old laws, and Christians still cherry pick bits from the Old Testament when it suits them. So when it comes to genuine morality, the best option is to stick to the Golden Rule and leave the Abrahamic religions out of it completely. People should keep their religions to themselves. That keeps things nice and simple about issues such as whether it's anybody else's business who other people love. Correct there would be lot less problems if people keep there religious beliefs to themselves And even less if people kept the sexual preferences to themselves In what way is being open about your sexual preferences a problem? In fact it's the exact opposite - many people, especially young people, have suffered precisely because they feel they've had to keep their sexual preferences to themselves. Surely the aim should be to create an environment where people feel comfortable about being open about their sexual preferences and for it not to have any negative consequences.
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Post by zerps on Jul 10, 2019 7:25:53 GMT
It would depend on the context in which you're using the word, presumably? Probably right I have a few queer/gay/homo friends and I have called them all sorts over the years and they call me names. I think same as everything it relies on your relationship with the person and their understanding of your contrxt God forbid a snowflake overhead
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Post by mattador78 on Jul 10, 2019 8:03:10 GMT
Probably right I have a few queer/gay/homo friends and I have called them all sorts over the years and they call me names. I think same as everything it relies on your relationship with the person and their understanding of your contrxt God forbid a snowflake overhead One of ems built like a brick shit house met him through a mutual friend about 10 years ago first thing I said to him was “Christ I hope your not the giver” pissed himself laughing mates ever since 👍snowflakes I shit em lol
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Post by greyman on Jul 10, 2019 8:39:04 GMT
Nowt so queer as folk? Old saying now not appropriate? In that context 'queer' doesn't mean 'gay' does it? The problem some people apparently have about context is an old one on here.
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Post by PerCyfilth ....Captains Log on Jul 10, 2019 8:54:20 GMT
Nowt so queer as folk? Old saying now not appropriate? In that context 'queer' doesn't mean 'gay' does it? Trouble is mate not everyone the right side of 50 knows it!
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Post by str8outtahampton on Jul 10, 2019 9:03:47 GMT
Isn't religion all made up by mankind in order to suit their own views and keep women downtrodden by making them wear silly clothes and keep their sexuality in check? No God would invent women to be slaves for men would they? It's a load of manmade bollocks! As one of the Marx Brothers - Chico I think - observed: "Sanity clause? Why - there ain't no sanity clause".
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 10, 2019 10:04:16 GMT
Correct there would be lot less problems if people keep there religious beliefs to themselves And even less if people kept the sexual preferences to themselves In what way is being open about your sexual preferences a problem? In fact it's the exact opposite - many people, especially young people, have suffered precisely because they feel they've had to keep their sexual preferences to themselves. Surely the aim should be to create an environment where people feel comfortable about being open about their sexual preferences and for it not to have any negative consequences. In a me me me society probably nothing wrong at all Thankfully we haven’t quiet reached such a selfish society Myself and millions like me were brought up what happens behind four walls by consenting adults remains behind four walls I no more want to know what you had for dinner than who you slept with or want to sleep with And in a free and tolerant country I shouldn’t have to listen to it
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