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Post by mrcoke on Jun 26, 2019 8:19:31 GMT
And we are moving on in Jones' words, "the fans favourite", for this absolute shite. He'll be fighting a losing battle after 15-20 games as Ole Ole Ole Ole Bojan rings out in front of 15000 on a cold wet Wednesday night People do seem to buy it though. But agreed if he carries on like he did last season then he’s got no chance. He was just so bad.
The warnings were there with the Shrewsbury defeat but we let him off.
The same mistakes he’d make again and again and again.
He showed absolutely nothing to suggest he has a clue what he’s doing.
And if it’s just the diamond, is it good having such a one dimensional manager? Funny I see it very differently. I can't disagree the results were bad, but I don't think that was due to making the same mistakes. I think he did make mistakes, like loaning out Pieters without a competent replacement, but he tried lots of different things, none of which came off: He tried the diamond which didn't work and abandoned it. He gave all the new Rowett signings (who cost a lot and have long contracts) every chance, he tried players in different positions, he brought back Edwards and improved Shawcross, he stopped using/sold old players he saw no long term future with the club, he gave young players a chance, he added Batth to the squad who improved the defending. He did all the above with very limited material to work with. The defeat at Shrewsbury was down to a bunch of players stopping playing when they thought the game was won. I think he then made a mistake in loaning out Campbell, instead of grooming him at Stoke. I believe he and his assistants do know what they are doing and will bring a whole freshness to the club. I just hope he gets the support from the club to write off the rotten apples and get rid of them. They have made a start with Berahino, hopefully they are prepared to take the financial hit with others. I am not looking at Jones through rose coloured specs. I wish he had used Bojan more and given him the same chance as Ince, Afobe, Clucas, & Co. I agree he has made mistakes and is still learning his craft, but I strongly believe Jones deserves our support and we, the supporters, act as a 12th man for our side and not the opposition. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 26, 2019 8:28:36 GMT
Gregory will be loved here. I don't think I will love him but he has every attribute that will make him a firm favourite with your average Stoke fan. He doesn't look like he'll solve the issues we have with pace but he should force errors. He sounds useful but I hope he's used sparingly or for the right game. Because then I think I could warm to him  |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 26, 2019 8:30:12 GMT
No, what you said is he was one of the slowest strikers around, which is something different isn’t it? I’m not entirely convinced by all the signings, but I think he’ll turn out to be a good one. I’m sure he’ll be a solid signing but where there’s only supposed to be 2 players per place is he really what we would have all hoped and the answer to our striker problems. I don’t think anyone can honestly say he is and I don’t think people can be blamed for being disappointed by these signing as a whole, taking into consideration the personnel and issues we have in the squad but that’s just my opinion. I’m happy to wait and see on it. We need more pace throughout the side and there’s still one or two glaring holes in things. We may well have built a side to finish about 15th, we might have built a hardworking side capable of finishing top 10 or even top six. We don’t know yet. Most of us have seen so little of these players that it seems silly to paint yourself into a corner about them just yet, especially when peddling stuff that flies in the face of what those who’ve actually watched them every week say. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 26, 2019 8:33:35 GMT
People do seem to buy it though. But agreed if he carries on like he did last season then he’s got no chance. He was just so bad.
The warnings were there with the Shrewsbury defeat but we let him off.
The same mistakes he’d make again and again and again.
He showed absolutely nothing to suggest he has a clue what he’s doing.
And if it’s just the diamond, is it good having such a one dimensional manager? Funny I see it very differently. I can't disagree the results were bad, but I don't think that was due to making the same mistakes. I think he did make mistakes, like loaning out Pieters without a competent replacement, but he tried lots of different things, none of which came off: He tried the diamond which didn't work and abandoned it. He gave all the new Rowett signings (who cost a lot and have long contracts) every chance, he tried players in different positions, he brought back Edwards and improved Shawcross, he stopped using/sold old players he saw no long term future with the club, he gave young players a chance, he added Batth to the squad who improved the defending. He did all the above with very limited material to work with. The defeat at Shrewsbury was down to a bunch of players stopping playing when they thought the game was won. I think he then made a mistake in loaning out Campbell, instead of grooming him at Stoke. I believe he and his assistants do know what they are doing and will bring a whole freshness to the club. I just hope he gets the support from the club to write off the rotten apples and get rid of them. They have made a start with Berahino, hopefully they are prepared to take the financial hit with others. I am not looking at Jones through rose coloured specs. I wish he had used Bojan more and given him the same chance as Ince, Afobe, Clucas, & Co. I agree he has made mistakes and is still learning his craft, but I strongly believe Jones deserves our support and we, the supporters, act as a 12th man for our side and not the opposition. His starting XIs made little sense. His subs made less sense. He tried his diamond (which was laduable but daft) and then binned it for the formation his predecessors had used and that didn't work. I don't think he did give them a chance. How is playing them in the same formation that they weren't suited to, giving them a chance? It's setting them up to fail. Our defence went from being the fourth best to the third best. It was hardly a massive improvement. He did use the young players and then dropped them. It was odd as they were on the whole bloody good. The Shrewsbury game was him not using his subs to take off knackered players and freshen the game up. He did that consistently. As I've said somewhere else I think he's on the line between genius and mad. But after last season I really can't find a good thing he did. 95% of the decisions he made were awful. The diamond is his last hope and this rag tag bunch of misfits he's assembling has to work. |
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Jun 26, 2019 9:04:09 GMT
wiki or Google for the insight? I'll watch them for Stoke if it's OK with you mate and I'll make my own judgement hopefully they do well and you will go very quiet on here because you obviously don't want them to do well. I want them to do well as much as I want to win the Euromillions. Im just accepting of the fact neither will happen. How can you accept something as fact when you haven't seen any of them kick a ball yet? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 9:20:33 GMT
I want them to do well as much as I want to win the Euromillions. Im just accepting of the fact neither will happen. How can you accept something as fact when you haven't seen any of them kick a ball yet? It enables them to continue moaning about everything and anything. |
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Post by stokeson on Jun 26, 2019 9:27:14 GMT
How can you accept something as fact when you haven't seen any of them kick a ball yet? It enables them to continue moaning about everything and anything. Its what you do best...... |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 9:28:47 GMT
I want them to do well as much as I want to win the Euromillions. Im just accepting of the fact neither will happen. How can you accept something as fact when you haven't seen any of them kick a ball yet? Because I base my opinions on factors outside of Stoke City.....like the 100s of other games they've played. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 9:29:04 GMT
It enables them to continue moaning about everything and anything. Its what you do best...... How ironic. |
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Jun 26, 2019 9:31:49 GMT
How can you accept something as fact when you haven't seen any of them kick a ball yet? Because I base my opinions on factors outside of Stoke City.....like the 100s of other games they've played. Oh....you mean the 100s of games you haven't seen these players actually play in? |
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Post by stokemark on Jun 26, 2019 10:18:29 GMT
With players expected in and out we probably will look something like this I guess? I think both Butland and Allen will be sold before the season gets ahead, and I also know a lot of people won't agree with Ince in the team. I believe in him though, we also still lack a left back. I also think Shawcross should play a number of games instead of Lindsay. Will Collins go to Man U.?  ...........................Davies........................... Edwards.........Batth................Lindsay..........Clucas ..........................Cousins........................... .........Ince.................................Etebo......... ...........................Powell........................... ................Vokes.................Gregory............... That hardly looks inspiring - I assume Allen is off but we need far better than Cousins |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 10:20:59 GMT
How do we know that we need better players in position X before we've seen them kick a ball for Stoke and/or Nathan Jones and his system?
Isn't it wise to just sit, wait and judge on what we see when they've had a few games (10?) playing together?
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 26, 2019 11:05:24 GMT
Funny I see it very differently. I can't disagree the results were bad, but I don't think that was due to making the same mistakes. I think he did make mistakes, like loaning out Pieters without a competent replacement, but he tried lots of different things, none of which came off: He tried the diamond which didn't work and abandoned it. He gave all the new Rowett signings (who cost a lot and have long contracts) every chance, he tried players in different positions, he brought back Edwards and improved Shawcross, he stopped using/sold old players he saw no long term future with the club, he gave young players a chance, he added Batth to the squad who improved the defending. He did all the above with very limited material to work with. The defeat at Shrewsbury was down to a bunch of players stopping playing when they thought the game was won. I think he then made a mistake in loaning out Campbell, instead of grooming him at Stoke. I believe he and his assistants do know what they are doing and will bring a whole freshness to the club. I just hope he gets the support from the club to write off the rotten apples and get rid of them. They have made a start with Berahino, hopefully they are prepared to take the financial hit with others. I am not looking at Jones through rose coloured specs. I wish he had used Bojan more and given him the same chance as Ince, Afobe, Clucas, & Co. I agree he has made mistakes and is still learning his craft, but I strongly believe Jones deserves our support and we, the supporters, act as a 12th man for our side and not the opposition. His starting XIs made little sense. 1His subs made less sense. 2He tried his diamond (which was laduable but daft) and then binned it for the formation his predecessors had used and that didn't work. 3I don't think he did give them a chance. How is playing them in the same formation that they weren't suited to, giving them a chance? It's setting them up to fail. 4Our defence went from being the fourth best to the third best. It was hardly a massive improvement. 5He did use the young players and then dropped them. It was odd as they were on the whole bloody good. 6The Shrewsbury game was him not using his subs to take off knackered players and freshen the game up. He did that consistently. 7As I've said somewhere else I think he's on the line between genius and mad. But after last season I really can't find a good thing he did. 95% of the decisions he made were awful. 8The diamond is his last hope and this rag tag bunch of misfits he's assembling has to work. 9You've made a lot of points there Bayern, which I will try and respond to. Point 4. He didn't play the formation they were used to because to start with, why should he, it wasn't working. Point 3. He started with the system he most believes in, and it didn't work with the players he inherited, so he binned it. That's sensible a management to me. (I was a manger for >30 years.) Point 5. That's a fact, nevertheless I think they were a lot more solid with Batth and Edwards, an improved Shawcross and Butland, despite not having a proper LB. Plus they were not so overtly defence as they had been under Rowett. Point 6. You know enough about the game to know that you do not overuse a young player and spoil him. They need to be matured gradually, not just thrown in at the deep end and allowed to sink or swim. Young players can be burnt out by over using them, and fail to mature properly. Point 7. He picked a reserve side and clearly did not want to use his first XI players. You say they were worn out, I say they stopped playing at 2-0 up; we could be both partly right. www.skysports.com/football/stoke-vs-shrewsbury/teams/404610Points 1,2 & 8. It is quite clear to me, in hindsight, that Jones was focused on next season from the start. Leaving out old players, trying different things, giving youth a chance, but mainly seeing which of the high cost players he wanted to retain and trying them in different formations. Results were a secondary consideration but he can never say that publicly as it is bad for selling tickets. Point 9. This is yet to be proven. He clearly thinks he is bringing in players to suit his system and therefore not misfits for him. Time will tell if you are right. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Jun 26, 2019 11:16:36 GMT
With players expected in and out we probably will look something like this I guess? I think both Butland and Allen will be sold before the season gets ahead, and I also know a lot of people won't agree with Ince in the team. I believe in him though, we also still lack a left back. I also think Shawcross should play a number of games instead of Lindsay. Will Collins go to Man U.? ...........................Davies........................... Edwards.........Batth................Lindsay..........Clucas ..........................Cousins........................... .........Ince.................................Etebo......... ...........................Powell........................... ................Vokes.................Gregory............... That hardly looks inspiring - I assume Allen is off but we need far better than Cousins Do we really know what he is able to do? We might be very lucky with this one or he has lost his way, but time will tell.  |
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 26, 2019 14:38:20 GMT
I've been avidly reading most of whats been posted on the MB over the last few weeks. Obviously rumours regarding targets, new squad players in, possible tactics, financial considerations, whose leaving etc.
Strangely amongst all the theorising and argument I've not heard one mention of Woods in regard to next season and a possible place in the team. Is he now the forgotten man at Stoke?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 15:34:02 GMT
Because I base my opinions on factors outside of Stoke City.....like the 100s of other games they've played. Oh....you mean the 100s of games you haven't seen these players actually play in? Have I seen them all, no. Have I seen some, yes. Have a looked at the opinions of others and the wide variety of stats available yes. Does any of the above suggest they are better than what we have, absolutely not. Does any of the above suggest they might be worse, absolutely. |
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