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Post by crapslinger on May 26, 2019 10:23:27 GMT
Prestwich potter - I am happy to be a corrected will still be a daft weekly wage tho ( 40k ?) I wish I was a quid behind him too and Yes it is up to Company ownership and a board incluidng the chief exec, to step in when things are overtly going wrong at the operating level this did not happen. Still the highest paid player at the club then, if all the others took a pay cut after relegation
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Post by crapslinger on May 26, 2019 10:26:43 GMT
Prestwich potter - I am happy to be a corrected will still be a daft weekly wage tho ( 40k ?) I wish I was a quid behind him too and Yes it is up to Company ownership and a board incluidng the chief exec, to step in when things are overtly going wrong at the operating level this did not happen. Apart from when they sacked Hughes and Rowett. They sacked Hughes at least 12 months too late, by then the damage was done should the board have acted when it became apparent to most of us that Hughes was failing ?, the appointment of Lambert and Rowett were the wrong one's do they take any of the responsibility for those appointments ?
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Post by RAF on May 26, 2019 10:27:07 GMT
The saddest part for me in this whole grotty affair is that he has pissed his talent up a fucking wall when some people would have given their left and right bollock to be in his shoes. He's a fucking disgrace.
H
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Post by PotteringThrough on May 26, 2019 10:30:26 GMT
As Werrers suggests it isn't the drink driving conviction which will have given us the chance to tear up his contract. It is much more the fact that he has probably broken the terms of his contract by being 3 times over the driving limit in London ON A DAY WHEN HE WAS DUE TO PLAY IN A MATCH in Staffordshire! A lot will depend upon how his contract was worded. Hopefully, the fact that legal advice seems to be that we have good grounds to terminate the contract, means that the terms of the contract were broken by his behaviour. We must also hope that the contract contained a clause giving the club the right to terminate it unilaterally in such circumstances. I'm sure his lawyers will go strongly down that route too. What happens to other players late for training? Have we documented these incidents? Was he served a formal warning? Share with the court your records? I've seen several of these tribunals for ordinary jobs and they go this way , I can't really imagine football is any different. As I say , he's a gonna, but he ain't leaving without a chunk of his wages paid, the question is how much? I think an additional factor in this will be the perceived damage to the clubs reputation and the negative publicity which should be an important factor in the clubs case. I’d be surprised if his previous misdemeanours weren’t documented and some formality in the process but then again this is Stoke. We don’t know what has gone on behind closed doors and don’t know the processes and steps in place that they follow. As for pay, would he be entitled to the money from his suspension to the date of dismissal (about 4 months wages) and nothing more?
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Post by dreamtheater on May 26, 2019 10:34:19 GMT
RAF - respectfully disagree, the saddest thing is: this directly contributed to the demise of Stoke City as a premier league Football club
the monies spent on a decent acquisition could've would've surely prevented that ?
its cost us our worldwide brand - respect - credibility and some hundreds of millions of pounds - I reckon
Stoke City just could not afford such a fuck up - we were not big enough --yet
and we managed three in fairly short order !
IMHO
and West Brom ? some fucking moron at the club recently tried to take the piss out of them for blowing the playoffs ?
meanwhile
they've not stopped laughing since we signed this fucking waster ( I know this for a fact)
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Post by AlliG on May 26, 2019 10:46:16 GMT
But you are not comparing like for like. In the circumstances you describe the parent is the "expert". In football the money men should set the criteria on age, cost, wages etc but as long as a player meets those criteria then the manager is the "expert" on player's skills and ability etc. and therefore should be the person who makes the final decision. If you don't want to work that way then the club needs to appoint an "expert" technical director/ director of football to make those decisions and a Head Coach who has an input into the process but whose job is basically to make best use of the players he is given. The comparison is legitimate. Your second paragraph. What about the red flag assessment, the very public statements about refusing to play for his previous chairman, his previous motoring offences, and his (at the time) FA ban for drugs. That should override any desire to acquire by a manager (or child in a sweet shop) Your third paragraph. Lessons Learned? That would have been my preferred option because TS as a CEO nor Cartwright were/are up to the task of effectively managing footballing operations. The implementation of the recruitment policy at the time was a shambles and the club paid the ultimate price of relegation under the mid managed strategy of sustainability. The owners have IMHO allowed the ship to sink by poor management, or is that purely in hindsight? I am not arguing that it wasn't a poor decision and one that, even without the benefit of hindsight, should not have been made but in your example the child obviously knows nothing about cars and their reaction is unjustified, whereas if an accountant told the manager that he knows nothing about footballers, it would not be unreasonable for the manager to take exception. How many other players are signed who have motoring convictions, issues with their previous clubs, problems with drugs/alcohol or other unknown issues? (I would suspect it is far more than we the public ever get to find out) In the circumstances one must assume that Mark Hughes had sufficient credit in the back to point out the red flags that had applied to, say, Marco Arnautovic or Peter Odemwinge, and successfully persuaded the club that he would be able to have a similarly beneficial impact on Berahino. I agree that someone with a greater football knowledge in the boardroom might improve the decision making, but it is not the way most of English football works at the moment. I suspect we would then have more stories about the manager being told to pick certain players and rumours of managers being unhappy with boardroom interference. Whatever the truth of the situation and whatever changes are made and lessons learnt, we haven't half made a pigs ear of the whole process.
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Post by bathstoke on May 26, 2019 11:11:58 GMT
On the night Berahino drove from Birmingham to London even though he had a match the next day. The girl friend he was with, was on the evening aggressively spoken to by her Ex ( according to the newspapers ) who demanded Money, The EX felt she owed him. So is Berahino still hanging around with inappropriate persons ? Three girl friends gave birth within six weeks of each other ( according to the newspapers ) . Then there Berahino life style before joining us. We gave him a chance to turn over a new leaf as the saying goes. He taken the Piss. Wise to leave quietly , to mature and to put his life style on the right Path. It a waste of his talent. Are you Delores in disguise...
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Post by kelw on May 26, 2019 11:16:18 GMT
On the night Berahino drove from Birmingham to London even though he had a match the next day. The girl friend he was with, was on the evening aggressively spoken to by her Ex ( according to the newspapers ) who demanded Money, The EX felt she owed him. So is Berahino still hanging around with inappropriate persons ? Three girl friends gave birth within six weeks of each other ( according to the newspapers ) . Then there Berahino life style before joining us. We gave him a chance to turn over a new leaf as the saying goes. He taken the Piss. Wise to leave quietly , to mature and to put his life style on the right Path. It a waste of his talent. Are you Delores in disguise... To be fair the Sun claimed that Sterling had 6 kids which of course was nonsense. Not sure who is the most naive. Those who buy these papers or those who believe them.
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Post by lordb on May 26, 2019 11:23:54 GMT
The alternative was to not back the manager. It's not easy is it? Back the manager and run the risk of his poor judgement Don't back the manager and risk losing (at that time) a successful manager. Sack Scholes and Cartwright and everything will be much better? Sorry not buying it. The signs that Hughes was starting to struggle were evident before we signed this waster, are you telling me that the club did not see the blatant red flags in the process of letting Hughes have his way, if they didn't then sacking the two clowns should have been paramount ! Even if both were against this signing and said so to the owner? Coates backed the may over Berahino against 'the two clowns'. I e. The club ignored the red flags and backed Hughes.
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Post by lordb on May 26, 2019 11:24:48 GMT
The saddest part for me in this whole grotty affair is that he has pissed his talent up a fucking wall when some people would have given their left and right bollock to be in his shoes. He's a fucking disgrace. H Wasted talent Disgusting isn't it.
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Post by tony1234 on May 26, 2019 11:33:42 GMT
If true, and he has been sacked here’s food for thought Scouted 25 times, no red flags. Due diligence completed £12 million transfer fee, wages (unknown), signing on fee (unknown), agents fee (unknown) 51 appearances (mostly as substitute or being substituted) = £235K per appearance The architects of the relegation disaster Captain Smith + 1st Mate didn’t go down with the ship. Lessons Learned My A**e 100% Hughes signing The club backed him, despite all the obvious warning signs, because of his success with Arnoutivic who's rap sheet was just as bad in Germany. In other words the club went against it's own process to back the manager. They are all to blame. Noone did their job. If just one of the three had done their jobs, it wouldn't have happened: A CEO - Scholes: ensure governance is in place for the financial protection of the club's investments and assets, with big investments undergoing necessary due diligence. A Director of Football/Technical Director - Cartwright: Ensure structure & processes are in place that ensure the footballing side of the club are run effectively: scouting, recruitment, on-boarding, training/fitness, academy, performance etc Manager - Select players and set up the team on the pitch. Highlight/recommend to DOF players needed to improve. (DOF to then ensure that processes are fit for purpose such that the investments are sound). Board: Monitor overall performance of the above. Systematic failure. Not sure anyone really knows the exact area lines are drawn in terms of accountability at Stoke. But either those above didn't do their jobs OR they didn't define their own objectives to take appropriate accountability. Amonst senior Directors of the club, that's remiss.
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Post by crapslinger on May 26, 2019 11:35:13 GMT
The signs that Hughes was starting to struggle were evident before we signed this waster, are you telling me that the club did not see the blatant red flags in the process of letting Hughes have his way, if they didn't then sacking the two clowns should have been paramount ! Even if both were against this signing and said so to the owner? Coates backed the may over Berahino against 'the two clowns'. I e. The club ignored the red flags and backed Hughes. Did they ? that would put a different slant on it, though Scholes is a director so you would assume he has some say at a higher level on transfer dealings, if they did indeed ignore the mass of red flags that were evident then maybe it is all the fault of the owners .
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Post by crapslinger on May 26, 2019 11:37:42 GMT
The saddest part for me in this whole grotty affair is that he has pissed his talent up a fucking wall when some people would have given their left and right bollock to be in his shoes. He's a fucking disgrace. H Wasted talent Disgusting isn't it. Where are all the Berahino backers now ? makes good runs, needs more time, not his fault it's his background, it's the system, it's the other players blah blah blah !!!!!!
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Post by dreamtheater on May 26, 2019 11:43:58 GMT
Gladly, I was absolutely opposed to this transfer from the very outset
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Post by Pugsley on May 26, 2019 11:50:22 GMT
Gladly, I was absolutely opposed to this transfer from the very outset Perhaps you should be running the club. You and Crapslinger with all your knowledge an' all.
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Post by mrred on May 26, 2019 11:53:30 GMT
Sooner this lecherous cunt out the door the better.
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Post by lordb on May 26, 2019 12:03:56 GMT
Wasted talent Disgusting isn't it. Where are all the Berahino backers now ? makes good runs, needs more time, not his fault it's his background, it's the system, it's the other players blah blah blah !!!!!! He's got talent, can't deny that. More skill than Jon Walters for example. Walters was incaculably the better player.
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Post by ruts66 on May 26, 2019 12:07:33 GMT
100% Hughes signing The club backed him, despite all the obvious warning signs, because of his success with Arnoutivic who's rap sheet was just as bad in Germany. In other words the club went against it's own process to back the manager. They are all to blame. Noone did their job. If just one of the three had done their jobs, it wouldn't have happened: A CEO - Scholes: ensure governance is in place for the financial protection of the club's investments and assets, with big investments undergoing necessary due diligence. A Director of Football/Technical Director - Cartwright: Ensure structure & processes are in place that ensure the footballing side of the club are run effectively: scouting, recruitment, on-boarding, training/fitness, academy, performance etc Manager - Select players and set up the team on the pitch. Highlight/recommend to DOF players needed to improve. (DOF to then ensure that processes are fit for purpose such that the investments are sound). Board: Monitor overall performance of the above. Systematic failure. Not sure anyone really knows the exact area lines are drawn in terms of accountability at Stoke. But either those above didn't do their jobs OR they didn't define their own objectives to take appropriate accountability. Amonst senior Directors of the club, that's remiss. This 100%. Makes you want to cry sometimes at the lost opportunity to forge SCFC into a permanent PL '2nd tier' force...
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Post by crapslinger on May 26, 2019 12:37:50 GMT
Where are all the Berahino backers now ? makes good runs, needs more time, not his fault it's his background, it's the system, it's the other players blah blah blah !!!!!! He's got talent, can't deny that. More skill than Jon Walters for example. Walters was incaculably the better player. Can't actually say I have seen any evidence of the supposed talent since we signed him can you ?
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Post by RAF on May 26, 2019 12:43:01 GMT
Wasted talent Disgusting isn't it. Where are all the Berahino backers now ? makes good runs, needs more time, not his fault it's his background, it's the system, it's the other players blah blah blah !!!!!! He no doubt has talent but unfortunately his feckless cuntishness overrides any of it! H
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Post by FullerMagic on May 26, 2019 12:43:33 GMT
www.skysports.com/football/news/11701/11728924/stoke-sack-saido-berahino
Berahino was banned from driving and fined £75k earlier this month for drink driving. He was almost 3 times over the legal limit. Stoke have told Berahino his contract is being terminated. The player has three years left on that deal which runs until 2022. Sources close to Berahino have told Sky Sports News they are considering a legal challenge against Stoke’s decision.
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Post by kelw on May 26, 2019 12:51:52 GMT
Wasted talent Disgusting isn't it. Where are all the Berahino backers now ? makes good runs, needs more time, not his fault it's his background, it's the system, it's the other players blah blah blah !!!!!! Certainly has ability and saying told you say really doesn't solve anything. As for who signed him etc, those above can argue all day but no-one has a clue re what went on. Let's not forget Pulls wanted to keep him and he knew more re him than us lot put together. Bottom line is we move on
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Post by crapslinger on May 26, 2019 13:03:18 GMT
Where are all the Berahino backers now ? makes good runs, needs more time, not his fault it's his background, it's the system, it's the other players blah blah blah !!!!!! Certainly has ability and saying told you say really doesn't solve anything. As for who signed him etc, those above can argue all day but no-one has a clue re what went on. Let's not forget Pulls wanted to keep him and he knew more re him than us lot put together. Bottom line is we move on Pulis did say he wanted to keep Darren Fletcher as well he proper fucked us/Hughes over with both these signings.
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Post by Pugsley on May 26, 2019 13:08:11 GMT
Certainly has ability and saying told you say really doesn't solve anything. As for who signed him etc, those above can argue all day but no-one has a clue re what went on. Let's not forget Pulls wanted to keep him and he knew more re him than us lot put together. Bottom line is we move on Pulis did say he wanted to keep Darren Fletcher as well he proper fucked us/Hughes over with both these signings. Pulis wasn't bothered about Berahino but he 1 million percent wanted to keep Fletcher.
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Post by crapslinger on May 26, 2019 13:10:10 GMT
Pulis did say he wanted to keep Darren Fletcher as well he proper fucked us/Hughes over with both these signings. Pulis wasn't bothered about Berahino but he 1 million percent wanted to keep Fletcher. Really you could see why eeerrrrmmmmmm perhaps not.
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Post by lordb on May 26, 2019 13:10:44 GMT
He's got talent, can't deny that. More skill than Jon Walters for example. Walters was incaculably the better player. Can't actually say I have seen any evidence of the supposed talent since we signed him can you ? Yes on occasion, showed good close control and so on. Brief glimpses no more. Utter waster
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Post by Davef on May 26, 2019 13:12:19 GMT
Gladly, I was absolutely opposed to this transfer from the very outset Perhaps you should be running the club. You and Crapslinger with all your knowledge an' all. As long as they (and others like them) are vindicated when shit like this happens, that's all that matters.
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Post by crapslinger on May 26, 2019 13:15:43 GMT
Perhaps you should be running the club. You and Crapslinger with all your knowledge an' all. As long as they (and others like them) are vindicated when shit like this happens, that's all that matters. It was hardly a case of hindsight though was it Dave, we knew about his history including the drugs ban prior to signing him.
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Post by dreamtheater on May 26, 2019 13:18:18 GMT
SSN now reporting this --
Interestingly, this should now send a clear message to our other miscreants and not least, the PFA
Stoke City will not tolerate players and their agents taking the mickey out of us anymore
nothing sad about this at all, its good news
and, the first real step in the right direction the club has made in quite a while
and yes Dave --- vindicated - foresight is a valuable commodity - want to know what else I would have done ?
and finally - I bet the rest of the football league clubs are quietly applauding us for finally taking this stance
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Post by JoeinOz on May 26, 2019 13:30:26 GMT
SSN now reporting this -- Interestingly, this should now send a clear message to our other miscreants and not least, the PFA Stoke City will not tolerate players and their agents taking the mickey out of us anymore nothing sad about this at all, its good news and, the first real step in the right direction the club has made in quite a while and yes Dave --- vindicated - foresight is a valuable commodity - want to know what else I would have done ? and finally - I bet the rest of the football league clubs are quietly applauding us for finally taking this stance You make it sound like it's never happened before and it's groundbreaking.. We aren't the first club to sack a naughty player.
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