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Post by spitthedog on May 20, 2019 8:17:54 GMT
Added to Adam advising Delph not to sign for us, seems our departing Scots contingent did a nice little line in making sure good young talent avoids the club 🤬 Adam didn't advise Delph not to join us. This has been debunked many times. I think an accusation like this needs some evidence. I have not heard anything to that effect so far. Anyone?
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 8:52:38 GMT
Jones has given more minutes to youngsters than any Stoke manager for decades Edwards,Tymon, Verlinden, Campbell, Sorrenson and Collins all played. He's not afraid to play the kids. This is all very relative. Your statement is true, but it only glitters by comparison to those managers unwilling to put their beef on the line for to test the youths. Tymon and Sorensen only played once, neither playing a full game. Campbell was sent away. Verlinden only had two starts, Collins just one (plus 2 excellent subs). Edwards established himself, but there's persistent rumours that he's about to be replaced, whether true I know not. What it all adds up to is very little. Like Hughes who introduced most of these players, it reads more like an alibi, as if to show the board that he's easing them into the team and they're "a big part of his plans". They're such a big part that, with the exception of Edwards, he played none of them in the final games of the season, when there was nothing at risk. Now Jones is about to sign 6-7 players. I very much doubt that any academy player will be in our team when the new season begins.
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on May 20, 2019 9:26:09 GMT
Jones has given more minutes to youngsters than any Stoke manager for decades Edwards,Tymon, Verlinden, Campbell, Sorrenson and Collins all played. He's not afraid to play the kids. This is all very relative. Your statement is true, but it only glitters by comparison to those managers unwilling to put their beef on the line for to test the youths. Tymon and Sorensen only played once, neither playing a full game. Campbell was sent away. Verlinden only had two starts, Collins just one (plus 2 excellent subs). Edwards established himself, but there's persistent rumours that he's about to be replaced, whether true I know not. What it all adds up to is very little. Like Hughes who introduced most of these players, it reads more like an alibi, as if to show the board that he's easing them into the team and they're "a big part of his plans". They're such a big part that, with the exception of Edwards, he played none of them in the final games of the season, when there was nothing at risk. Now Jones is about to sign 6-7 players. I very much doubt that any academy player will be in our team when the new season begins. Let's not forget NJ has had a "free hit" since he came in, which no other manager has had. Would he have been so keen to play the youngsters if we were in a relegation dogfight? We'll never know, but you have to take that into consideration. I think his line was - "if they're good enough, they'll play" regardless of age, but to know if they're good enough they need the opportunities, as you say after he's bought in his 6-7 players will there be room for the youngsters?
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Post by lordb on May 20, 2019 9:28:00 GMT
Jones has given more minutes to youngsters than any Stoke manager for decades Edwards,Tymon, Verlinden, Campbell, Sorrenson and Collins all played. He's not afraid to play the kids. This is all very relative. Your statement is true, but it only glitters by comparison to those managers unwilling to put their beef on the line for to test the youths. Tymon and Sorensen only played once, neither playing a full game. Campbell was sent away. Verlinden only had two starts, Collins just one (plus 2 excellent subs). Edwards established himself, but there's persistent rumours that he's about to be replaced, whether true I know not. What it all adds up to is very little. Like Hughes who introduced most of these players, it reads more like an alibi, as if to show the board that he's easing them into the team and they're "a big part of his plans". They're such a big part that, with the exception of Edwards, he played none of them in the final games of the season, when there was nothing at risk. Now Jones is about to sign 6-7 players. I very much doubt that any academy player will be in our team when the new season begins. Edwards will
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Post by lordb on May 20, 2019 9:30:14 GMT
Jones has given more minutes to youngsters than any Stoke manager for decades Edwards,Tymon, Verlinden, Campbell, Sorrenson and Collins all played. He's not afraid to play the kids. This is all very relative. Your statement is true, but it only glitters by comparison to those managers unwilling to put their beef on the line for to test the youths. Tymon and Sorensen only played once, neither playing a full game. Campbell was sent away. Verlinden only had two starts, Collins just one (plus 2 excellent subs). Edwards established himself, but there's persistent rumours that he's about to be replaced, whether true I know not. What it all adds up to is very little. Like Hughes who introduced most of these players, it reads more like an alibi, as if to show the board that he's easing them into the team and they're "a big part of his plans". They're such a big part that, with the exception of Edwards, he played none of them in the final games of the season, when there was nothing at risk. Now Jones is about to sign 6-7 players. I very much doubt that any academy player will be in our team when the new season begins. Verlinden Andy Collins played in the final games did they not? Ok not the very last game but they played What are we saying otherwise? He played them purely because of a few posts on the Oatcake? For real? Come on, he played them because he wanted to have a look at them.
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Post by nottsover60 on May 20, 2019 9:33:45 GMT
To my way of thinking yes it's very disappointing that we might lose one of our best pruducts before he's really played for us but to imagine he'd stay if he'd played more games is totally wishful thinking. It could even be argued that had he played more and done well he would be more likely to move.
Of course Man Utd were aware of him - he's played against their u21 this season and been star man. If I remember correctly he was already highly thought of when he chose to join Stoke so no doubt he has been well monitored for the past two years. I imagine Fletcher was just part of Utd's due dilligence.
We can hope that being mature he may see another season at Stoke as better for his development just as Butland did when Chelsea wanted him. The other best scenario is that Utd buy him but loan him back to us for the season.
Apart from losing a great prospect I don't see that this can do anything but enhance our academy's reputation and make us more attractive to potential 16 year old recruits.
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Post by metalhead on May 20, 2019 9:52:08 GMT
shit, wouldn't he get an invite? Not sure what you mean by that Just fed up with Scholes escaping blame. It was a joke. I blame the whole lot of them, but the reason I pick on Cartwright is because i remember the video of him on Sky Sports dancing around in the office like a glutinous waste... all the time, he was signing absolutely fucking nobody.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 10:06:14 GMT
This is all very relative. Your statement is true, but it only glitters by comparison to those managers unwilling to put their beef on the line for to test the youths. Tymon and Sorensen only played once, neither playing a full game. Campbell was sent away. Verlinden only had two starts, Collins just one (plus 2 excellent subs). Edwards established himself, but there's persistent rumours that he's about to be replaced, whether true I know not. What it all adds up to is very little. Like Hughes who introduced most of these players, it reads more like an alibi, as if to show the board that he's easing them into the team and they're "a big part of his plans". They're such a big part that, with the exception of Edwards, he played none of them in the final games of the season, when there was nothing at risk. Now Jones is about to sign 6-7 players. I very much doubt that any academy player will be in our team when the new season begins. Edwards will Edwards is no longer an Academy player. He is a product of it, but he no longer trains with the other "kids"
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Post by potterpaul on May 20, 2019 10:06:20 GMT
To my way of thinking yes it's very disappointing that we might lose one of our best pruducts before he's really played for us but to imagine he'd stay if he'd played more games is totally wishful thinking. It could even be argued that had he played more and done well he would be more likely to move. Of course Man Utd were aware of him - he's played against their u21 this season and been star man. If I remember correctly he was already highly thought of when he chose to join Stoke so no doubt he has been well monitored for the past two years. I imagine Fletcher was just part of Utd's due dilligence. We can hope that being mature he may see another season at Stoke as better for his development just as Butland did when Chelsea wanted him. The other best scenario is that Utd buy him but loan him back to us for the season. Apart from losing a great prospect I don't see that this can do anything but enhance our academy's reputation and make us more attractive to potential 16 year old recruits. The question still stands How can a seasoned professional who is reportedly joining ManU as part of their recruitment team come to the conclusion a player is "Premier League ready" but two highly regarded professional managers don't see him fit for Championship. Has Fletcher put his balls on the line here? Maybe at that level but we all saw how Collins performed but his reward ultimately ended up being dropped, a worrying trend that happened too often during the season.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 10:09:53 GMT
This is all very relative. Your statement is true, but it only glitters by comparison to those managers unwilling to put their beef on the line for to test the youths. Tymon and Sorensen only played once, neither playing a full game. Campbell was sent away. Verlinden only had two starts, Collins just one (plus 2 excellent subs). Edwards established himself, but there's persistent rumours that he's about to be replaced, whether true I know not. What it all adds up to is very little. Like Hughes who introduced most of these players, it reads more like an alibi, as if to show the board that he's easing them into the team and they're "a big part of his plans". They're such a big part that, with the exception of Edwards, he played none of them in the final games of the season, when there was nothing at risk. Now Jones is about to sign 6-7 players. I very much doubt that any academy player will be in our team when the new season begins. Verlinden Andy Collins played in the final games did they not? Ok not the very last game but they played What are we saying otherwise? He played them purely because of a few posts on the Oatcake? For real? Come on, he played them because he wanted to have a look at them. That "He played them purely because of a few posts on the Oatcake? For real?" is all a figment of your mind. There's nothing in my message that suggested such an imbecile way of thinking. Who's Andy?
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Post by nottsover60 on May 20, 2019 10:30:39 GMT
To my way of thinking yes it's very disappointing that we might lose one of our best pruducts before he's really played for us but to imagine he'd stay if he'd played more games is totally wishful thinking. It could even be argued that had he played more and done well he would be more likely to move. Of course Man Utd were aware of him - he's played against their u21 this season and been star man. If I remember correctly he was already highly thought of when he chose to join Stoke so no doubt he has been well monitored for the past two years. I imagine Fletcher was just part of Utd's due dilligence. We can hope that being mature he may see another season at Stoke as better for his development just as Butland did when Chelsea wanted him. The other best scenario is that Utd buy him but loan him back to us for the season. Apart from losing a great prospect I don't see that this can do anything but enhance our academy's reputation and make us more attractive to potential 16 year old recruits. The question still stands How can a seasoned professional who is reportedly joining ManU as part of their recruitment team come to the conclusion a player is "Premier League ready" but two highly regarded professional managers don't see him fit for Championship. Has Fletcher put his balls on the line here? Maybe at that level but we all saw how Collins performed but his reward ultimately ended up being dropped, a worrying trend that happened too often during the season. I suspect it was less that he could walk into Utd's team than that he is ready to be part of the first team squad and if necessary play a few Cup games or make a few, substitute appearances. I think Fletcher was probably saying he is definitely going to be a Premier League player and is ready to be involved in a Premier League squad. To think he will play regular first team football for Utd next year is nonsense and if he goes there he could end up like Wes Brown as a perpetual substitute or like numerous other Utd squad players having to leave for regular football - for a lot more than Utd will pay Stoke I would add.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 10:32:43 GMT
To my way of thinking yes it's very disappointing that we might lose one of our best pruducts before he's really played for us but to imagine he'd stay if he'd played more games is totally wishful thinking. It could even be argued that had he played more and done well he would be more likely to move. Of course Man Utd were aware of him - he's played against their u21 this season and been star man. If I remember correctly he was already highly thought of when he chose to join Stoke so no doubt he has been well monitored for the past two years. I imagine Fletcher was just part of Utd's due dilligence. We can hope that being mature he may see another season at Stoke as better for his development just as Butland did when Chelsea wanted him. The other best scenario is that Utd buy him but loan him back to us for the season. Apart from losing a great prospect I don't see that this can do anything but enhance our academy's reputation and make us more attractive to potential 16 year old recruits. The question still stands How can a seasoned professional who is reportedly joining ManU as part of their recruitment team come to the conclusion a player is "Premier League ready" but two highly regarded professional managers don't see him fit for Championship. Has Fletcher put his balls on the line here? Maybe at that level but we all saw how Collins performed but his reward ultimately ended up being dropped, a worrying trend that happened too often during the season. Jones gave him his debut and played him in a part of the game against the eventual league champions amongst other appearances. Why is there an assumption that Jones doesn't rate him going forward because he didn't play him in every minute of every available game?
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Post by jimmygscfc on May 20, 2019 10:33:48 GMT
To my way of thinking yes it's very disappointing that we might lose one of our best pruducts before he's really played for us but to imagine he'd stay if he'd played more games is totally wishful thinking. It could even be argued that had he played more and done well he would be more likely to move. Of course Man Utd were aware of him - he's played against their u21 this season and been star man. If I remember correctly he was already highly thought of when he chose to join Stoke so no doubt he has been well monitored for the past two years. I imagine Fletcher was just part of Utd's due dilligence. We can hope that being mature he may see another season at Stoke as better for his development just as Butland did when Chelsea wanted him. The other best scenario is that Utd buy him but loan him back to us for the season. Apart from losing a great prospect I don't see that this can do anything but enhance our academy's reputation and make us more attractive to potential 16 year old recruits. The question still stands How can a seasoned professional who is reportedly joining ManU as part of their recruitment team come to the conclusion a player is "Premier League ready" but two highly regarded professional managers don't see him fit for Championship. Has Fletcher put his balls on the line here? Maybe at that level but we all saw how Collins performed but his reward ultimately ended up being dropped, a worrying trend that happened too often during the season. If Collins went to Man United, does anyone seriously think he'd be playing any time soon? It would just be a matter of them buying potential now rather than later when he'd cost more. If he stays, I still don't expect him to feature, other than perhaps off the bench, in the Cup or as part of a back three, unless he's the next Duncan Edwards!
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Post by potterpaul on May 20, 2019 10:37:58 GMT
The question still stands How can a seasoned professional who is reportedly joining ManU as part of their recruitment team come to the conclusion a player is "Premier League ready" but two highly regarded professional managers don't see him fit for Championship. Has Fletcher put his balls on the line here? Maybe at that level but we all saw how Collins performed but his reward ultimately ended up being dropped, a worrying trend that happened too often during the season. Jones gave him his debut and played him in a part of the game against the eventual league champions amongst other appearances. Why is there an assumption that Jones doesn't rate him going forward because he didn't play him in every minute of every available game? Oh I don't know maybe the fact he dropped him for some ageing loan player who had as much of a career with Stoke City as our wonder boy Wimmer.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 10:41:10 GMT
Jones gave him his debut and played him in a part of the game against the eventual league champions amongst other appearances. Why is there an assumption that Jones doesn't rate him going forward because he didn't play him in every minute of every available game? Oh I don't know maybe the fact he dropped him for some ageing loan player who had as much of a career with Stoke City as our wonder boy Wimmer. What were the details in the loan contract? Was there a clause in there?
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Post by potterpaul on May 20, 2019 10:42:51 GMT
Oh I don't know maybe the fact he dropped him for some ageing loan player who had as much of a career with Stoke City as our wonder boy Wimmer. What were the details in the loan contract? Was there a clause in there? Find out and get back to me
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 10:44:19 GMT
What were the details in the loan contract? Was there a clause in there? Find out and get back to me I'm not the one criticising a manager blindly. I'm happy to leave it as it is. You?
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Post by potterpaul on May 20, 2019 10:45:46 GMT
Find out and get back to me I'm not the one criticising a manager blindly. I'm happy to leave it as it is. You? I'm not backing the manager blindly, you?
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 10:47:47 GMT
I'm not the one criticising a manager blindly. I'm happy to leave it as it is. You? I'm not backing the manager blindly, you? No, me neither. I'm happy to give him a few months of a dreadful season to settle in, before making a proper judgement starting next season. You?
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Post by nottsover60 on May 20, 2019 10:51:51 GMT
The end of last season was not the time to be developing a young player. Jones probably like us saw enough to judge Collins as a possible centre half for this next season. Why give him more playing time in a formation that is going to be abandoned and in a possibly toxic atmosphere? We have to trust Jones to develop young players. Hughes was given a load of abuse on here for throwing Edwards into difficult matches.
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Post by potterpaul on May 20, 2019 10:52:35 GMT
I'm not backing the manager blindly, you? No, me neither. I'm happy to give him a few months of a dreadful season to settle in, before making a proper judgement starting next season. You? Starting next season yes, I won't be moving any goal posts though, to say October/November. He's had enough time now to get things in some sort of order.
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Post by lordb on May 20, 2019 11:09:04 GMT
Not sure what you mean by that Just fed up with Scholes escaping blame. It was a joke. I blame the whole lot of them, but the reason I pick on Cartwright is because i remember the video of him on Sky Sports dancing around in the office like a glutinous waste... all the time, he was signing absolutely fucking nobody. well he's definitely fat train targets on Scholes, thats my message
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Post by lordb on May 20, 2019 11:13:03 GMT
Verlinden Andy Collins played in the final games did they not? Ok not the very last game but they played What are we saying otherwise? He played them purely because of a few posts on the Oatcake? For real? Come on, he played them because he wanted to have a look at them. That "He played them purely because of a few posts on the Oatcake? For real?" is all a figment of your mind. There's nothing in my message that suggested such an imbecile way of thinking. Who's Andy? predictive test should say 'and Collins' other posts above suggested he played the youngsters solely due to 'fan pressure' sorry to lump you in with that. struggling to understand why people think he has picked the youngsters, which he has, for any reason other than he wants to have a look at them/thought they were the best option on the day been crying out for years for managers to pick the youngsters now we have one he gets criticism for it. makes no sense to me
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Post by potterpaul on May 20, 2019 11:27:50 GMT
That "He played them purely because of a few posts on the Oatcake? For real?" is all a figment of your mind. There's nothing in my message that suggested such an imbecile way of thinking. Who's Andy? predictive test should say 'and Collins' other posts above suggested he played the youngsters solely due to 'fan pressure' sorry to lump you in with that. struggling to understand why people think he has picked the youngsters, which he has, for any reason other than he wants to have a look at them/thought they were the best option on the day been crying out for years for managers to pick the youngsters now we have one he gets criticism for it. makes no sense to me You do know there are other platforms other than the 'Oatcake'. Maybe not If you had taken the time during the second half of last season you may have noticed that the Sentinal were all over the 'playing the youngsters'. There were constant reports and articles about certain players and the form of our U23s. That created the 'the fan pressure' I don't know where the fuck you got the idea that playing the youngsters he got criticism, the point was that he was most likely not have played them at all without the pressure
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 11:44:38 GMT
That "He played them purely because of a few posts on the Oatcake? For real?" is all a figment of your mind. There's nothing in my message that suggested such an imbecile way of thinking. Who's Andy? predictive test should say 'and Collins' other posts above suggested he played the youngsters solely due to 'fan pressure' sorry to lump you in with that. struggling to understand why people think he has picked the youngsters, which he has, for any reason other than he wants to have a look at them/thought they were the best option on the day been crying out for years for managers to pick the youngsters now we have one he gets criticism for it. makes no sense to me Make sense of why McClean gets selected ahead of Verlinden. Then you might understand why what Jones has done is not good enough.
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Post by PotterLog on May 20, 2019 11:47:39 GMT
Added to Adam advising Delph not to sign for us, seems our departing Scots contingent did a nice little line in making sure good young talent avoids the club 🤬 Adam didn't advise Delph not to join us. This has been debunked many times. Has it? I missed that... How so? He seemed to state it pretty plainly himself on the radio..
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Post by lordb on May 20, 2019 11:58:34 GMT
predictive test should say 'and Collins' other posts above suggested he played the youngsters solely due to 'fan pressure' sorry to lump you in with that. struggling to understand why people think he has picked the youngsters, which he has, for any reason other than he wants to have a look at them/thought they were the best option on the day been crying out for years for managers to pick the youngsters now we have one he gets criticism for it. makes no sense to me Make sense of why McClean gets selected ahead of Verlinden. Then you might understand why what Jones has done is not good enough. Mclean played wing back, can't see Verlinden at wing back Was interesting to see Velinden play top of the diamond against Norwich
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Post by themistocles on May 20, 2019 12:22:32 GMT
Hold your ground
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Post by themistocles on May 20, 2019 12:39:16 GMT
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Post by humbersidepotter on May 20, 2019 12:52:19 GMT
People moaning about 5m, it wouldn't be the first time we've had a high potential player that hasn't hit the levels expected. N'goy an Cuvelier to name just a few. Considering Matt Clarke would cost us about 5m, and he's more proven... I don't think 5m with add ons and a sell on clause is the worst case scenario. I'd rather keep him, but it's not the end of the world.
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