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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 14, 2019 11:19:11 GMT
You really haven't answered that question though. At least not clearly. As far as I can make out, you're saying that because we were relegated five years after Pulis left the club, we're a good example of a club who should have been careful what they wished for. That doesn't make any sense. From what I heard on the radio that wasn't what people were saying. It's not just about clubs sacking a particular manager its the fans expectations and that things can go wrong, which they have done, thinking the grass is always greener doesn't work out and we are an example of the fact that there are a lot of factors at stake in staying in the premier league. We are a warning to Brighton that changes of manager, personnel and style does not always end up how you think it will and careful planning is needed on their part. But it did work. The appointment of Hughes improved our fortunes for a while. As Dave said, the mistake we made was not binning Hughes sooner, rather than not sacking Pulis. The grass actually was greener.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 11:24:05 GMT
From what I heard on the radio that wasn't what people were saying. It's not just about clubs sacking a particular manager its the fans expectations and that things can go wrong, which they have done, thinking the grass is always greener doesn't work out and we are an example of the fact that there are a lot of factors at stake in staying in the premier league. We are a warning to Brighton that changes of manager, personnel and style does not always end up how you think it will and careful planning is needed on their part. But it did work. The appointment of Hughes improved our fortunes for a while. As Dave said, the mistake we made was not binning Hughes sooner, rather than not sacking Pulis. The grass actually was greener. If you think those first two years were worth the damage he did in the last two years then that's your opinion but I am very much of the view that he did damage to this club which will take years and years to fix. I did live abroad during the good times in fairness so other than the Man Utd win on Boxing Day I saw very little in actual life and not just on the telly which probably goes some way to explain my stance on Hughes. When I came back (end of 2017 season) what struck me is that the club, match days, the fans now seem unrecognisable.
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Post by callas12 on May 14, 2019 11:27:35 GMT
From what I heard on the radio that wasn't what people were saying. It's not just about clubs sacking a particular manager its the fans expectations and that things can go wrong, which they have done, thinking the grass is always greener doesn't work out and we are an example of the fact that there are a lot of factors at stake in staying in the premier league. We are a warning to Brighton that changes of manager, personnel and style does not always end up how you think it will and careful planning is needed on their part. But it did work. The appointment of Hughes improved our fortunes for a while. As Dave said, the mistake we made was not binning Hughes sooner, rather than not sacking Pulis. The grass actually was greener. This is exactly where the press & media have got us mixed up & incorrectly categorise us in the same boat as Charlton. I'm far from Hughes biggest fan but the press conveniently forget our most successful spell we had in the Prem that came under Hughes & it all started going wrong well after Pulis left us.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 14, 2019 11:29:18 GMT
But it did work. The appointment of Hughes improved our fortunes for a while. As Dave said, the mistake we made was not binning Hughes sooner, rather than not sacking Pulis. The grass actually was greener. If you think those first two years were worth the damage he did in the last two years then that's your opinion but I am very much of the view that he did damage to this club which will take years and years to fix. I did live abroad during the good times in fairness so other than the Man Utd win on Boxing Day I saw very little in actual life and not just on the telly which probably goes some way to explain my stance on Hughes. When I came back (end of 2017 season) what struck me is that the club, match days, the fans now seem unrecognisable. That feeds into the notion of sacking Hughes earlier though, he should have been out of the door the moment the 16/17 season ended, hell you could even make an argument for sacking him after Palace away. Because it was plainly obvious to anyone with more than a passing interest the club was on a downwards trajectory despite of our finishing position. It would have looked harsh on the outside, but it was absolutely the right decision to make if you were intimate with details of the club. They did that in 2012/13 when Pulis had a similar year, and if you read the comments on the BBC about his sacking they are starkly similar to comments about Brighton now.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 14, 2019 11:31:15 GMT
But it did work. The appointment of Hughes improved our fortunes for a while. As Dave said, the mistake we made was not binning Hughes sooner, rather than not sacking Pulis. The grass actually was greener. If you think those first two years were worth the damage he did in the last two years then that's your opinion but I am very much of the view that he did damage to this club which will take years and years to fix. I did live abroad during the good times in fairness so other than the Man Utd win on Boxing Day I saw very little in actual life and not just on the telly which probably goes some way to explain my stance on Hughes. When I came back (end of 2017 season) what struck me is that the club, match days, the fans now seem unrecognisable. The good years were good, the bad years were bad. It's easy to separate them. Just because he lost the plot massively doesn't mean I look back at the Liverpool 6-1 as some sort of fools' paradise. Equally, we were very much heading backwards by the end under TP. You could just as easily argue that getting rid when we did actually prolonged our stay in the top flight. The real difference, as has been said, is that Pulis was sacked at the right time and Hughes wasn't. If we'd binned Hughes after the last game of 2016-17 or even after that tonking at Palace earlier that season, he'd be far more fondly remembered than he is.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 11:38:42 GMT
The problem for Potter will be what is success? It was only Brighton's second season in the Premier League and they stayed up with the same number of wins as they did in their first and got to a Cup Semi Final as well. Do the board think they're a top half side? Still see this as a very harsh sacking unless the dressing room had genuinely gone. 1 win in the last 23 games says it all
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Post by crapslinger on May 14, 2019 11:47:58 GMT
The problem for Potter will be what is success? It was only Brighton's second season in the Premier League and they stayed up with the same number of wins as they did in their first and got to a Cup Semi Final as well. Do the board think they're a top half side? Still see this as a very harsh sacking unless the dressing room had genuinely gone. 1 win in the last 23 games says it all And we achieved 3 in 4 months in an inferior standard league but some are clapping away like demented seals at feeding time.
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Post by JoeinOz on May 14, 2019 11:49:50 GMT
But it did work. The appointment of Hughes improved our fortunes for a while. As Dave said, the mistake we made was not binning Hughes sooner, rather than not sacking Pulis. The grass actually was greener. If you think those first two years were worth the damage he did in the last two years then that's your opinion but I am very much of the view that he did damage to this club which will take years and years to fix. I did live abroad during the good times in fairness so other than the Man Utd win on Boxing Day I saw very little in actual life and not just on the telly which probably goes some way to explain my stance on Hughes. When I came back (end of 2017 season) what struck me is that the club, match days, the fans now seem unrecognisable. I don't agree with that. Hughes can't be blamed for lots of what happened after him. Also he was three managers ago. How much blame does he have to take? For this current mire we are in Rowett is more culpable than he was.
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Post by Gary Hackett on May 14, 2019 11:50:44 GMT
If you think those first two years were worth the damage he did in the last two years then that's your opinion but I am very much of the view that he did damage to this club which will take years and years to fix. I did live abroad during the good times in fairness so other than the Man Utd win on Boxing Day I saw very little in actual life and not just on the telly which probably goes some way to explain my stance on Hughes. When I came back (end of 2017 season) what struck me is that the club, match days, the fans now seem unrecognisable. The good years were good, the bad years were bad. It's easy to separate them. Just because he lost the plot massively doesn't mean I look back at the Liverpool 6-1 as some sort of fools' paradise. Equally, we were very much heading backwards by the end under TP. You could just as easily argue that getting rid when we did actually prolonged our stay in the top flight. The real difference, as has been said, is that Pulis was sacked at the right time and Hughes wasn't. If we'd binned Hughes after the last game of 2016-17 or even after that tonking at Palace earlier that season, he'd be far more fondly remembered than he is. I wanted Hughes sacked at the time but in hindsight I'm sure he'd have done far better than the managers that followed him. I actually think he'd gave managed to grind out the necessary points to stay up.
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Post by JoeinOz on May 14, 2019 11:54:10 GMT
The good years were good, the bad years were bad. It's easy to separate them. Just because he lost the plot massively doesn't mean I look back at the Liverpool 6-1 as some sort of fools' paradise. Equally, we were very much heading backwards by the end under TP. You could just as easily argue that getting rid when we did actually prolonged our stay in the top flight. The real difference, as has been said, is that Pulis was sacked at the right time and Hughes wasn't. If we'd binned Hughes after the last game of 2016-17 or even after that tonking at Palace earlier that season, he'd be far more fondly remembered than he is. I wanted Hughes sacked at the time but in hindsight I'm sure he'd have done far better than the managers that followed him. I actually think he'd gave managed to grind out the necessary points to stay up. I think he would too. But still think it was right to sack him. If he'd dug out enough points for survival he'd have just stayed another year and more of the same.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 14, 2019 11:54:48 GMT
The good years were good, the bad years were bad. It's easy to separate them. Just because he lost the plot massively doesn't mean I look back at the Liverpool 6-1 as some sort of fools' paradise. Equally, we were very much heading backwards by the end under TP. You could just as easily argue that getting rid when we did actually prolonged our stay in the top flight. The real difference, as has been said, is that Pulis was sacked at the right time and Hughes wasn't. If we'd binned Hughes after the last game of 2016-17 or even after that tonking at Palace earlier that season, he'd be far more fondly remembered than he is. I wanted Hughes sacked at the time but in hindsight I'm sure he'd have done far better than the managers that followed him. I actually think he'd gave managed to grind out the necessary points to stay up. Appointing a man who was turned down for the Hull job some weeks before, to steer us back to where that squad should have been in is the single worst blunder the board have made IMO. The arrogance in not effectively lining someone up weeks before Hughes was eventually sacked was downright negligent. Signings can go wrong, players can get injured or lose form etc, but to pick a man whose stock has been nothing but falling since 2012 was absolutely insane.
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Post by callas12 on May 14, 2019 11:55:26 GMT
Think that particularly in football there's a very fine line between managers being given the right amount of time to be left to progress a club and being left in post too long that things go downhill and uncontrollably wrong.
Looking back on reflection TP had maybe took us far as he could and was maxed out regards his potential with us at the time the club saw fit to change him.
There's no denying we progressed under Hughes in his first couple of seasons with us and the 3x 9th place finishes & league cup semi finals were possibly on reflection bigger achievements than TP getting us to the FA Cup Final and into Europe by virtue of runs and styles adopted.
But Hughes was kept on far to long and as things were left to go abit stale under TP's reign, things went catastrophically wrong under Hughes by leaving him in post too long after the warning signs were there & clearly evident.
The move from Pulis to Hughes went more seamless than people expected and the club misjudged or showed too much loyalty to Hughes towards the end because the move to progress us on further was clearly overlooked and Hughes not only maxed out but the bottom fell out with him in charge and unfortunately years of good work by both TP & Hughes were undone in 1-2 seasons. The board in my opinion took their eyes off the ball & we were already in freefall when they decided to act.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 11:55:40 GMT
If you think those first two years were worth the damage he did in the last two years then that's your opinion but I am very much of the view that he did damage to this club which will take years and years to fix. I did live abroad during the good times in fairness so other than the Man Utd win on Boxing Day I saw very little in actual life and not just on the telly which probably goes some way to explain my stance on Hughes. When I came back (end of 2017 season) what struck me is that the club, match days, the fans now seem unrecognisable. I don't agree with that. Hughes can't be blamed for lots of what happened after him. Also he was three managers ago. How much blame does he have to take? For this current mire we are in Rowett is more culpable than he was. The reason we went down is recruitment now whether that lies with the manager or the pizza boys is often debated here but I do think a lot of it was Hughes. I completely agree that Rowett made us a million times worse and has dug an even deeper hole for us to climb out of but he obviously wasn't the reason we were relegated.
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Post by JoeinOz on May 14, 2019 11:56:16 GMT
I wanted Hughes sacked at the time but in hindsight I'm sure he'd have done far better than the managers that followed him. I actually think he'd gave managed to grind out the necessary points to stay up. Appointing a man who was turned down for the Hull job some weeks before, to steer us back to where that squad should have been in is the single worst blunder the board have made IMO. The arrogance in not effectively lining someone up weeks before Hughes was eventually sacked was downright negligent. Signings can go wrong, players can get injured or lose form etc, but to pick a man whose stock has been nothing but falling since 2012 was absolutely insane. That's why it wise of Brighton to make a change now. They have time to take stock and conduct a thorough interview process.
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Post by berahinosgoals on May 14, 2019 11:59:16 GMT
But it did work. The appointment of Hughes improved our fortunes for a while. As Dave said, the mistake we made was not binning Hughes sooner, rather than not sacking Pulis. The grass actually was greener. If you think those first two years were worth the damage he did in the last two years then that's your opinion but I am very much of the view that he did damage to this club which will take years and years to fix. I did live abroad during the good times in fairness so other than the Man Utd win on Boxing Day I saw very little in actual life and not just on the telly which probably goes some way to explain my stance on Hughes. When I came back (end of 2017 season) what struck me is that the club, match days, the fans now seem unrecognisable. Yup, mark 'the stain' Hughes strikes again
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Post by JoeinOz on May 14, 2019 12:01:29 GMT
Looks like Graham Potter will be there.
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Post by callas12 on May 14, 2019 12:03:54 GMT
Appointing a man who was turned down for the Hull job some weeks before, to steer us back to where that squad should have been in is the single worst blunder the board have made IMO. The arrogance in not effectively lining someone up weeks before Hughes was eventually sacked was downright negligent. Signings can go wrong, players can get injured or lose form etc, but to pick a man whose stock has been nothing but falling since 2012 was absolutely insane. That's why it wise of Brighton to make a change now. They have time to take stock and conduct a thorough interview process. Exactly this. Brighton have acted now after a poor season at the same time Stoke should have sacked Hughes after that awful finish to the 16-17 season. The writing was on the wall after that Arsenal home game where we were trounced & offered nothing & it was clear Hughes had taken us as far as he could. Think if he'd of left then his time at Stoke would of been looked back upon far more fondly.
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Post by Gary Hackett on May 14, 2019 12:36:35 GMT
Looks like Graham Potter will be there. He'll take them down.
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Post by GeneralFaye on May 14, 2019 12:42:55 GMT
For those people saying it's a harsh sacking, you really can't have watched much of Brighton this season, dreadful side.
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Post by GeneralFaye on May 14, 2019 12:43:24 GMT
Looks like Graham Potter will be there. He'll take them down. Why?..
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 13:07:46 GMT
Looks like Graham Potter will be there. He'll take them down. What are the lottery numbers this week ?
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 13:47:22 GMT
The players they'd spent biggish money on hadn't really made a big impression either (although don't know if he's responsible 100% for the signings?) Jahanbaksh £17m (only 12 starts) Izquierdo £16m (9 starts) Bissouma £16m (17 starts) Locadia £15m (12 starts) Lunacy - 16m for Izquierdo 😂
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Post by Gary Hackett on May 14, 2019 15:45:11 GMT
Because he's done nothing to deserve being given a management position in the best league in the world. If he ever gets Swansea promoted then fair enough but I can't see that happening any time soon either.
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Post by Davef on May 14, 2019 15:48:17 GMT
1 win in the last 23 games says it all And we achieved 3 in 4 months in an inferior standard league but some are clapping away like demented seals at feeding time. And some are behaving like spoiled arseholes, not prepared to give a good man a decent chance.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 14, 2019 16:25:03 GMT
The players they'd spent biggish money on hadn't really made a big impression either (although don't know if he's responsible 100% for the signings?) Jahanbaksh £17m (only 12 starts) Izquierdo £16m (9 starts) Bissouma £16m (17 starts) Locadia £15m (12 starts) Lunacy - 16m for Izquierdo 😂 No quite as rotten as £18M for Wimmer, £18M for Imbula, £13M for Berahino and £12M for Afobe. I wonder if there's anything wrong with their process?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on May 14, 2019 16:47:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 17:59:41 GMT
Makes sense. Swansea have gone through so many managers, some of their own doing, some leaving for pastures greener, so they should want to hold on to Potter at least a couple more years. Untried in English football he's done very well with a lot less money than we have, and with a lot more faith in younger players than we have.
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Post by stokefan1972 on May 14, 2019 18:04:07 GMT
Aye, the bloke who's obviously "out of his depth" here will surely be the next Brighton manager. No two ways about that, Nigle. let's hope so
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 19:31:09 GMT
Lunacy - 16m for Izquierdo 😂 No quite as rotten as £18M for Wimmer, £18M for Imbula, £13M for Berahino and £12M for Afobe. I wonder if there's anything wrong with their process? Preaching to the choir mate...
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Post by stokefan1972 on May 14, 2019 19:33:07 GMT
No quite as rotten as £18M for Wimmer, £18M for Imbula, £13M for Berahino and £12M for Afobe. I wonder if there's anything wrong with their process? Preaching to the choir mate... each in a different season
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