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Post by Goonie on Apr 22, 2019 17:44:06 GMT
Not seen their goals but Butland seems a shadow of the player that was a England squad player - no movement at all for their second
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Apr 22, 2019 17:47:05 GMT
As the old cliché goes, it was a game of two halves......
There was no outstanding player in the first half, but second half.... What a transformation!!!
Overall:
Butland, 6
Edwards, 9 Batth, 6 Shawcross, 6 Williams, 7 Mcclean, 6
Etebo, 6 Clucas, 7 Allen, 7
Verlinden, 7 Afobe, 5
Subs: Ince, 5 Collins, (not much time, plus from the Boothen I couldn't tell if it was Collins or Shawcross, my eyes aren't in HD these days!!!)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 17:51:57 GMT
Verlinden 5, Why was he playing in the middle? (...) Verlinden 7, Looked better being out wide properly, good ball in for the 1st Because if Thibo is to have a future at scfc under Jones, he is not going to play "out wide", because Jones' prized system doesn't contain wide men. So it was necessary for the manager to see if the player could do something in the middle. That's a big question mark, because while his speed is electrifying and could arouse the crowds for years to come, he's too frail physically and is easily knocked off the ball. He did start a couple of runs through the middle but he never reached his final destination. He's not potentially a 10, more a deep lying 9, if the other forward is on his wavelength they could do some serious damage, but we don't have any such player on our books at the moment. Therefore he was allowed to move wider in the second half, which did see some good skill, although his pathetic play acting needs to be curbed. Also Nathan Jones will have to somehow ram into McClean and Shawcross that they must not aim long high balls in Thibo's direction as he has zero chance of winning aerial duels. Not least since Norwich afforded 2½ defenders, just to look after him, which is testament to how well aware they were of the damage he could cause, and he will on another day.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 17:54:52 GMT
Not seen their goals but Butland seems a shadow of the player that was a England squad player - no movement at all for their second It's going in before he has a chance to react. Pukki took his chance very well, didn't just knock it in but had time and intelligence to place it beyond the keeper's reach. Jack literally had no chance at all.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 17:55:22 GMT
Verlinden 5, Why was he playing in the middle? (...) Verlinden 7, Looked better being out wide properly, good ball in for the 1st Because if Thibo is to have a future at scfc under Jones, he is not going to play "out wide", because Jones' prized system doesn't contain wide men. So it was necessary for the manager to see if the player could do something in the middle. That's a big question mark, because while his speed is electrifying and could arouse the crowds for years to come, he's too frail physically and is easily knocked off the ball. He did start a couple of runs through the middle but he never reached his final destination. He's not potentially a 10, more a deep lying 9, if the other forward is on his wavelength they could do some serious damage, but we don't have any such player on our books at the moment. Therefore he was allowed to move wider in the second half, which did see some good skill, although his pathetic play acting needs to be curbed. Also Nathan Jones will have to somehow ram into McClean and Shawcross that they must not aim long high balls in Thibo's direction as he has zero chance of winning aerial duels. Not least since Norwich afforded 2½ defenders, just to look after him, which is testament to how well aware they were of the damage he could cause, and he will on another day. Easily knocked off the ball - He was absolutely - but as he gets older hopefully he'll get more physical. Deep lying No.9 - Could be a decent Bobo replacement longterm. Play acting - Needs a slap.
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Post by Goonie on Apr 22, 2019 17:56:41 GMT
Not seen their goals but Butland seems a shadow of the player that was a England squad player - no movement at all for their second It's going in before he has a chance to react. Pukki took his chance very well, didn't just knock it in but had time and intelligence to place it beyond the keeper's reach. Jack literally had no chance at all. Just got back and just seen the highlights - you're right, though I think he'll feel crappy about their first goal
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Post by adi on Apr 22, 2019 17:59:53 GMT
I’m usually one of the fans who has Joe Allen’s back but today he was absolutely appalling. I can’t rate him any higher than 5. His passing was atrocious. Edwards MOM by a mile. 89% pass completion, highest in the side.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 18:01:38 GMT
I’m usually one of the fans who has Joe Allen’s back but today he was absolutely appalling. I can’t rate him any higher than 5. His passing was atrocious. Edwards MOM by a mile. 89% pass completion, highest in the side. Them stats mean nothing to me. They’re usually nonsense. The basic 2 yarders which he kicked out of play I remember and the simple ball he needed to play to Edwards when we had a great break matter more. I thought with the ball he was poor
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Post by neilb987 on Apr 22, 2019 18:01:52 GMT
Butland 7. Would have been 8 but for some iffy distribution. Edwards 8. Solid defending, good strength in the tackle, good crosses and what a goal! Batth - 7. Solid! Shawcross - solid again. Good return after injury layoff. Williams - 7. He’s no natural left-back but put in a good shift - and a goal! Otebo - 7.5 Excellent first half, tired after about 70 mins but worked very hard as the more central midfielder. Wish his shooter was better! Allen - 7. Some wayward passing but made up for that with an energetic all-round performance. Clucas - 6.5 Blows hot and cold. Sometimes good, sometimes not. Could have won us the game had his shooting been better. McLean- 6.5. Can’t fault his effort and stamina, but I wish he could actually beat his fullback .., Verlinden - 7.5 Never seen him play as a No.10 before! Maybe a little lightweight for the role but perhaps worth repeating the experiment. Impressed. Afobe - 6.5. Can’t really make out Benik. He’s not strong enough in the air or at holding the ball up to be a proper ‘lone striker’ but neither is he quick or quick-thinking enough to be a goal poacher type of forward. Subs: Ince - 6.5 Flatters to deceive. Another one who needs to learn how to shoot straight! Collins - not on long enough.
Overall though, a much better team performance!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 18:02:07 GMT
Usually agree with most of your points but I thought he was poor, thought his touch was awful, didn’t lay it off particularly well and didn’t seem committed in the tackle. First half especially if we’re gonna hoof it why not have Volkes as the focal point. I thought his commitment couldn’t be faulted today, he seemed up for it and chased everything and his movement was intelligent. If he could use his alleged intelligence to study the basics of the offside laws he might actually contribute something to the team! I think he was anonymous for the first 75 minutes, well marked by the Norwich defenders, but in the last 15+5 they threw caution to the wind and committed more men forwards to score a third goal. This meant Afobe was barely marked anymore and had the relative freedom to run with the ball and at least get towards the penalty area, but I don't recall him making a single situation that Norwich will have nightmares about...
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Post by adi on Apr 22, 2019 18:03:06 GMT
89% pass completion, highest in the side. Them stats mean nothing to me. They’re usually nonsense. The basic 2 yarders which he kicked out of play I remember and the simple ball he needed to play to Edwards when we had a great break matter more. I thought with the ball he was poor Just saying that he misplaced 3-4 passes all day which is better than any other stoke player.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 18:04:27 GMT
Easily knocked off the ball - He was absolutely - but as he gets older hopefully he'll get more physical. Yes but if he builds more muscles he will lose some of his speed.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 22, 2019 18:04:43 GMT
I thought his commitment couldn’t be faulted today, he seemed up for it and chased everything and his movement was intelligent. If he could use his alleged intelligence to study the basics of the offside laws he might actually contribute something to the team! I think he was anonymous for the first 75 minutes, well marked by the Norwich defenders, but in the last 15+5 they threw caution to the wind and committed more men forwards to score a third goal. This meant Afobe was barely marked anymore and had the relative freedom to run with the ball and at least get towards the penalty area, but I don't recall him making a single situation that Norwich will have nightmares about... He could be better in getting back inside quicker, even today that was an issue I agree. There were numerous occasions today I thought when he made a well timed run to take a defender or two with him that opened space up for others.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 22, 2019 18:05:20 GMT
Not seen their goals but Butland seems a shadow of the player that was a England squad player - no movement at all for their second No way butland was at fault for 2nd goal.
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Post by dastokie on Apr 22, 2019 18:07:36 GMT
Butland 7 steady game not at fault for either
Edwards 7 Bad first half excellent second half.
Shawcross 7.5 Confident display
Williams 8 Played like a man possessed second half.
Batth 7 Steady game
McClean 5 invisible until last shot of first half ran hard.
Clucas 7.5 Good game showed some good positive attitude.
Allen 7.5 Helped edwards in the first half great work rate missing final touch.
Etebo 8 Another good display worked well with Allen second half.
Verlinden 7 Came into the game second half when out wide on the left.
Afobe 6 Invisible first half loads better Second half.
Ince 6 looked lively on the attack still hides when needed to work back.
Collins 6 Looked comfortable in cameo role.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 18:12:34 GMT
If he could use his alleged intelligence to study the basics of the offside laws he might actually contribute something to the team! I think he was anonymous for the first 75 minutes, well marked by the Norwich defenders, but in the last 15+5 they threw caution to the wind and committed more men forwards to score a third goal. This meant Afobe was barely marked anymore and had the relative freedom to run with the ball and at least get towards the penalty area, but I don't recall him making a single situation that Norwich will have nightmares about... He could be better in getting back inside quicker, even today that was an issue I agree. There were numerous occasions today I thought when he made a well timed run to take a defender or two with him that opened space up for others. I think he was so much better than we've seen since Rowett left, and probably while GR was here too, that it's pretty amazing to see that there's actually a decent footballer in there somewhere. Just don't go and extend his contract, please! The difference was also, at least for the second half, that he wasn't just left to his own limited devices in the opposition half, but had a number of players for company, especially Thibo. I'm not sure which actual position Clucas was in, but he added at least some presence too.
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Post by jarvinski on Apr 22, 2019 18:18:48 GMT
Clucas is bloody awful, I could easily get rid of 8 of this team including Joe and Jack who are going anyway
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 22, 2019 18:41:55 GMT
Not seen their goals but Butland seems a shadow of the player that was a England squad player - no movement at all for their second It's going in before he has a chance to react. Pukki took his chance very well, didn't just knock it in but had time and intelligence to place it beyond the keeper's reach. Jack literally had no chance at all. When it went in initially I thought Butland was very poor but watching replays, yes he had little to no chance with it
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Post by nik80 on Apr 22, 2019 18:45:18 GMT
Butland 7, not bad but a couple of dodgy moments. Edwards 8, MOM. Bath 7.5, good again. Shawcross 7, solid. Williams 7, good goal but lost his man for their second. Etebo 6.5, decent but nothing more. Allen 7, solid. Clucas 7, a better showing today. McClean 5, a lot of commitment but too little skills. Verlinden 7, a lot of good skills on the ball but also some bad decision making. Afobe 3, a really awful player! Seems unable to do anything right at the moment! Ince 7, lively when coming on. Collins, too little time on the pich. Hang on, McClean the second worst? I agree, the quality is lacking but thought he was our best player first half. Thought Etebo was pretty poor today.
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Post by werrington on Apr 22, 2019 19:03:43 GMT
Second half Sam Clucas was immense .
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Post by robwahlmann on Apr 22, 2019 19:11:21 GMT
Butland 7, not bad but a couple of dodgy moments. Edwards 8, MOM. Bath 7.5, good again. Shawcross 7, solid. Williams 7, good goal but lost his man for their second. Etebo 6.5, decent but nothing more. Allen 7, solid. Clucas 7, a better showing today. McClean 5, a lot of commitment but too little skills. Verlinden 7, a lot of good skills on the ball but also some bad decision making. Afobe 3, a really awful player! Seems unable to do anything right at the moment! Ince 7, lively when coming on. Collins, too little time on the pich. Hang on, McClean the second worst? I agree, the quality is lacking but thought he was our best player first half. Thought Etebo was pretty poor today. I never say anything negative about McClean's commitment, but when it comes to quality and decision making I can hardly remember a worse player in a Stoke shirt. He wants to do so well, but if he creates anything or scores a goal it always looks very accidental. When he has time on the ball to actually make a decision instead of just acting on instinct he unfortunately doesn't seem able to hit anything in the same colours or makes decisions that are just awful. In my opinion he simply hasn't enough quality and should be moved on.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 19:35:53 GMT
Second half Sam Clucas was immense . With a full pre season I honestly think he’ll be a really important member of the squad next season....
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Post by werrington on Apr 22, 2019 19:39:01 GMT
Second half Sam Clucas was immense . With a full pre season I honestly think he’ll be a really important member of the squad next season.... He led the charge and grabbed the game by the bollocks mate
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Post by thehoof on Apr 22, 2019 19:49:49 GMT
I’m no fan of his but I’m surprised he’s getting stick for today. Compared to his usual lackadaisical self he was on it. Was a useful outlet for us when under pressure too. he scores goals, the last time he got a decent ball played towards him was against forest and he scored, he scores goals he just doesn’t get given the ball to him enough in good positions He does not score goals-257 appearances 61 goals, 22 of which came in one 46 game season. Take that season out and his record is 1 goal every 6 and a bit games. Even with that season he averages 1 goal every 4 and a bit games; that’s 11 a season!
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Post by Vermelho20312505 on Apr 22, 2019 19:52:13 GMT
Afobe was really good today I thought, as someone who’d have cast him into Hades on the strength of his usual output. He worked hard, his movement was good, he won aerial duels and even held the ball up at times. Dovetailed nicely with Verlinden. I really can't understand how people can think Afobe played well today! Every time he got to the ball first it ended up with absolutely nothing. When he got into a good position he fluffed it, when getting on the ball first his passes went to the oppositon or he ran with the ball till he lost it. I really can't understand why we keep playing him at all, GET RID! Can't believe the stick he gets. In the first half he had nobody within 30 yards of him. It was consistently whacked in his general direction where it seemed his teammates hoped he out jump both centre backs, take it down and then beat them to create his own chance on goal. Realistic? Fair? Surprise surprise, when his teammates came forward in the second half to have a scout of what it was like up there he was able to hold it up and link the play. Made numerous runs where the ball wasn't quite right and was intercepted. I agree he has had a poor season but there is no striker in the World who could look good in many of our games this season given their isolation. People bave criticised him for being isolated. How the hell is that his fault?!
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Post by thehoof on Apr 22, 2019 19:54:28 GMT
Easily knocked off the ball - He was absolutely - but as he gets older hopefully he'll get more physical. Yes but if he builds more muscles he will lose some of his speed. Would you say Usain Bolt is a stick insect because he seems pretty well built to me ?😉
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 22, 2019 19:57:05 GMT
I really can't understand how people can think Afobe played well today! Every time he got to the ball first it ended up with absolutely nothing. When he got into a good position he fluffed it, when getting on the ball first his passes went to the oppositon or he ran with the ball till he lost it. I really can't understand why we keep playing him at all, GET RID! Can't believe the stick he gets. In the first half he had nobody within 30 yards of him. It was consistently whacked in his general direction where it seemed his teammates hoped he out jump both centre backs, take it down and then beat them to create his own chance on goal. Realistic? Fair? Surprise surprise, when his teammates came forward in the second half to have a scout of what it was like up there he was able to hold it up and link the play. Made numerous runs where the ball wasn't quite right and was intercepted. I agree he has had a poor season but there is no striker in the World who could look good in many of our games this season given their isolation. People bave criticised him for being isolated. How the hell is that his fault?! To an extent - he isn’t a lone striker and absolutely shouldn’t have been signed to play as one. But what has been his fault has been his outright laziness and dreadful first touch. Thankfully the former at least wasn’t on show today as he gave it a real go and made a nuisance of himself.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 19:57:18 GMT
I agree with those sticking up for clucas. He was very good second half. He simply has to score his chance though.
With a full pre season I think he will be brilliant next year
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Post by Vermelho20312505 on Apr 22, 2019 20:01:26 GMT
Can't believe the stick he gets. In the first half he had nobody within 30 yards of him. It was consistently whacked in his general direction where it seemed his teammates hoped he out jump both centre backs, take it down and then beat them to create his own chance on goal. Realistic? Fair? Surprise surprise, when his teammates came forward in the second half to have a scout of what it was like up there he was able to hold it up and link the play. Made numerous runs where the ball wasn't quite right and was intercepted. I agree he has had a poor season but there is no striker in the World who could look good in many of our games this season given their isolation. People bave criticised him for being isolated. How the hell is that his fault?! To an extent - he isn’t a lone striker and absolutely shouldn’t have been signed to play as one. But what has been his fault has been his outright laziness and dreadful first touch. Thankfully the former at least wasn’t on show today as he gave it a real go and made a nuisance of himself. I agree he isn't a lone striker and so harsh to judge him when played that way. I genuinely don't think he's lazy. I think it is both soul destroying and knackering when you are asked to chase long punts for most of the game. Many strikers would fold doing that and then be accused of being lazy when they finally do. I feel that if we get him the ball in the area he has goals in him (even though he fluffed his big chance today).
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Post by thehoof on Apr 22, 2019 20:02:08 GMT
I thought Clucas Etebo and McLean were totally non existent in the first half. Whatever Jones said at half time worked because all 3 were much better ( and in Clucas’s case, the best he’s been at Stoke)- however it was a shocking miss!
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