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Post by robstokie on Apr 6, 2019 19:39:52 GMT
Im not disputing the fact that Sparky did incredibly well to take that team up another level, but the right steady characters were already here and formed the core of particularly the first 2 seasons. He had Wilson who came in alongside Shawcross, GCam played a majority of his games at right-back under TP, yes, Pieters came in under Sparky (as did Muni, but he was in and out of the side due to injuries etc.) Huth did well until he got injured and fell out of favour. The Zonz was here and improved season on season as was Whelan who did all the dirty work. Where Sparky really did the business for me was giving the Zonz a bit more attacking licence as well as bringing in wide options who offered real threat and were more dynamic than a past-it Ethers and Pennant (think Arnie, Assaidi, Moses, eventually Shaq) as well as strikers who could stretch teams (Odemwingie and Diouf from that period). Cameron still wasn’t TP’s regular, first choice right back though and Huth didn’t make it past November, when we were still struggling, so it can politely be described as ‘reaching’ to say he had a ready made back five. Nzonzi, Whelan, Adam and Crouch all played better for Hughes than they did TP imo. Hughes undeniably failed to replace the old guard adequately but he was responsible for the good in his reign, not Pulis, just as he was responsible for the bad. Im not disputing that Sparky worked wonders with what he had, but when youve got a group of good, solid professionals who were hand-picked by TP because they had the right 'DNA' (Cartwright came in halfway through TPs final season if i remember correctly) it makes your job a fair bit easier. On top of that, with TP keeping us up for 5 years on the bounce and turning us into an established, stable premier-league club with facilities that reflected this (TP was instrumental in pushing for getting Clayton Wood up to standard), we had more pulling power than clubs in and around us who were either unstable behind the scenes, had a high player turnover or lacked the facilities that we did. Weirdly enough, Both Sparky AND TPs best signings were the cheapest.
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Post by lordb on Apr 6, 2019 19:41:26 GMT
Cameron still wasn’t TP’s regular, first choice right back though and Huth didn’t make it past November, when we were still struggling, so it can politely be described as ‘reaching’ to say he had a ready made back five. Nzonzi, Whelan, Adam and Crouch all played better for Hughes than they did TP imo. Hughes undeniably failed to replace the old guard adequately but he was responsible for the good in his reign, not Pulis, just as he was responsible for the bad. Im not disputing that Sparky worked wonders with what he had, but when youve got a group of good, solid professionals who were hand-picked by TP because they had the right 'DNA' (Cartwright came in halfway through TPs final season if i remember correctly) it makes your job a fair bit easier. Weirdly enough, Both Sparky AND TPs best signings were the cheapest. And Macari's
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Post by Absolution on Apr 6, 2019 19:58:04 GMT
Im not disputing that Sparky worked wonders with what he had, but when youve got a group of good, solid professionals who were hand-picked by TP because they had the right 'DNA' (Cartwright came in halfway through TPs final season if i remember correctly) it makes your job a fair bit easier. Weirdly enough, Both Sparky AND TPs best signings were the cheapest. And Macari's Can't remember Macari spending much on any player.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 6, 2019 19:58:19 GMT
Cameron still wasn’t TP’s regular, first choice right back though and Huth didn’t make it past November, when we were still struggling, so it can politely be described as ‘reaching’ to say he had a ready made back five. Nzonzi, Whelan, Adam and Crouch all played better for Hughes than they did TP imo. Hughes undeniably failed to replace the old guard adequately but he was responsible for the good in his reign, not Pulis, just as he was responsible for the bad. Im not disputing that Sparky worked wonders with what he had, but when youve got a group of good, solid professionals who were hand-picked by TP because they had the right 'DNA' (Cartwright came in halfway through TPs final season if i remember correctly) it makes your job a fair bit easier. On top of that, with TP keeping us up for 5 years on the bounce and turning us into an established, stable premier-league club with facilities that reflected this (TP was instrumental in pushing for getting Clayton Wood up to standard), we had more pulling power than clubs in and around us who were either unstable behind the scenes, had a high player turnover or lacked the facilities that we did. Weirdly enough, Both Sparky AND TPs best signings were the cheapest. Those good, solid professionals had won 22% of their league games in the prior 18 months and 3 of their last 19.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2019 20:02:11 GMT
Where will he end up next? My guess is another championship club when he inevitably gets sacked at the end of this season.
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Post by robstokie on Apr 6, 2019 20:05:32 GMT
Im not disputing that Sparky worked wonders with what he had, but when youve got a group of good, solid professionals who were hand-picked by TP because they had the right 'DNA' (Cartwright came in halfway through TPs final season if i remember correctly) it makes your job a fair bit easier. On top of that, with TP keeping us up for 5 years on the bounce and turning us into an established, stable premier-league club with facilities that reflected this (TP was instrumental in pushing for getting Clayton Wood up to standard), we had more pulling power than clubs in and around us who were either unstable behind the scenes, had a high player turnover or lacked the facilities that we did. Weirdly enough, Both Sparky AND TPs best signings were the cheapest. Those good, solid professionals had won 22% of their league games in the prior 18 months and 3 of their last 19. Yes, things went stale in that last season for TP and a change was needed (To be honest, it started to go stale after the european run ended) but, if Sparky thought that the players attitude or professionalism was the problem, he wouldnt have A - come in the first place and B - built the spine of his side around them. What needs to be remembered though is that without TP, there almost certainly wouldnt have been any premier league, particularly for as long as we were in there.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 6, 2019 20:07:53 GMT
Those good, solid professionals had won 22% of their league games in the prior 18 months and 3 of their last 19. Yes, things went stale in that last season for TP and a change was needed (To be honest, it started to go stale after the european run ended) but, if Sparky thought that the players attitude or professionalism was the problem, he wouldnt have A - come in the first place and B - built the spine of his side around them. What needs to be remembered though is that without TP, there almost certainly wouldnt have been any premier league, particularly for as long as we were in there. And he deserves enormous credit for that. I don’t see why that isn’t enough that they feel the need to credit him for stuff after he’d left the club as well.
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Post by robstokie on Apr 6, 2019 20:17:19 GMT
Yes, things went stale in that last season for TP and a change was needed (To be honest, it started to go stale after the european run ended) but, if Sparky thought that the players attitude or professionalism was the problem, he wouldnt have A - come in the first place and B - built the spine of his side around them. What needs to be remembered though is that without TP, there almost certainly wouldnt have been any premier league, particularly for as long as we were in there. And he deserves enormous credit for that. I don’t see why that isn’t enough that they feel the need to credit him for stuff after he’d left the club as well. I never was - what Sparky did with that team is down to Sparky. All i was saying is that the right foundations were there to build upon.
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Post by kelw on Apr 6, 2019 21:16:20 GMT
Where will he end up next? My guess is another championship club when he inevitably gets sacked at the end of this season. Cardiff maybe. Wonder if Warnock might call it a day
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2019 21:35:23 GMT
Where will he end up next? My guess is another championship club when he inevitably gets sacked at the end of this season. Cardiff maybe. Wonder if Warnock might call it a day Good shout. I'd pack it in if I were Warnock. I didn't realise until the other day that he was 70 years old!
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Post by mrcoke on Apr 7, 2019 10:44:11 GMT
Those good, solid professionals had won 22% of their league games in the prior 18 months and 3 of their last 19. Yes, things went stale in that last season for TP and a change was needed ( To be honest, it started to go stale after the european run ended) but, if Sparky thought that the players attitude or professionalism was the problem, he wouldnt have A - come in the first place and B - built the spine of his side around them. What needs to be remembered though is that without TP, there almost certainly wouldnt have been any premier league, particularly for as long as we were in there. Not true. Boxing Day 2012 we were sitting in 8th place in the Prem. having beaten Liverpool 3-1. Had we beaten Southampton on the 29th Dec and other results gone our way we could have moved into 5th place. It was not to be and we went into a dreadful slide down the table, but in December 2012 we were hardly a side going stale, and whilst our football was very one dimensional not many predicted our dreadful form from January 2013 to the end of that season.
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Post by elystokie on Apr 7, 2019 11:16:42 GMT
Those good, solid professionals had won 22% of their league games in the prior 18 months and 3 of their last 19. Yes, things went stale in that last season for TP and a change was needed (To be honest, it started to go stale after the european run ended) but, if Sparky thought that the players attitude or professionalism was the problem, he wouldnt have A - come in the first place and B - built the spine of his side around them. What needs to be remembered though is that without TP, there almost certainly wouldnt have been any premier league, particularly for as long as we were in there. I don't buy this 'almost certainly wouldn't have been any premier league' if it wasn't for TP business I'm afraid, replace the TP initials with PC and I'm all aboard, it would've taken a phenomenal manager to do it without the Coates's cash, with the cash not quite so much in my opinion.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Apr 7, 2019 11:58:06 GMT
Yes, things went stale in that last season for TP and a change was needed (To be honest, it started to go stale after the european run ended) but, if Sparky thought that the players attitude or professionalism was the problem, he wouldnt have A - come in the first place and B - built the spine of his side around them. What needs to be remembered though is that without TP, there almost certainly wouldnt have been any premier league, particularly for as long as we were in there. I don't buy this 'almost certainly wouldn't have been any premier league' if it wasn't for TP business I'm afraid, replace the TP initials with PC and I'm all aboard, it would've taken a phenomenal manager to do it without the Coates's cash, with the cash not quite so much in my opinion. Oh come on only TP could have got us promoted!
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Post by elystokie on Apr 7, 2019 12:22:06 GMT
I don't buy this 'almost certainly wouldn't have been any premier league' if it wasn't for TP business I'm afraid, replace the TP initials with PC and I'm all aboard, it would've taken a phenomenal manager to do it without the Coates's cash, with the cash not quite so much in my opinion. Oh come on only TP could have got us promoted! And kept us up on a 'shoestring' too! The shoestring so 'short' only Man City and Chelsea had ones that were any longer Truly magnificent
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