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Post by hooftastic on Mar 16, 2019 19:30:47 GMT
We heard it when he joined, it still applies.
Maybe some people have forgotten but it's a long road ahead for a total rebuild.
I'm not even sure you can count the window past so maybe it'll be fair to judge him in 18 months.
Jones was not brought in to recycle this squad but to build a completely new one. It'll be fair to judge him when all the deadwood has left.
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Post by barnscfc1 on Mar 16, 2019 19:37:36 GMT
Thats based on the recruitment team getting it right as well.
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Post by Gods on Mar 16, 2019 19:41:21 GMT
7 goals in 12 league games and an FA Cup exit at home to Shrewsbury hasn't been too clever so far.
But you're right, we have to stay the course this time, a 5th manager in 14 months is unthinkable.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Mar 16, 2019 19:41:27 GMT
I totally back jones but we need some improvement, some wins, and some goals soon.
The legacy of our decade in the top flight is being destroyed and we are alienating our supporters
But I won't be judging jones until next season
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Post by STOKIETILLIDIE on Mar 16, 2019 20:07:48 GMT
The only way I see the club moving forward is by giving Jones time. This is not his team, he needs a preseason to get rid and start to build. So he can play the way he wants Stoke to play. There is a lot of positives he's got the defence playing well. Yes, I understand we look toothless but with his own players in 12 months I hope we are all talking about how good of a team we look.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 20:15:30 GMT
I totally back jones but we need some improvement, some wins, and some goals soon. The legacy of our decade in the top flight is being destroyed and we are alienating our supporters But I won't be judging jones until next season What are you suddenly expecting to change? Jones can't and won't get this lot firing to any great degree. Rowett brought the damn players, by and large, and he struggled to get them firing. The reason is some of them just aren't very good and as a unit they just don't and won't click. What Jones achieved at Luton wasn't a mistake or luck, he didn't discover a magical formula where he kissed James Justin's knob at 3 minutes to 3 every week and the magic just happened. He built a side over time with components that fit together and he'll have a good go here with the same fair wind. Anyone expecting him to click his fingers and get this lot firing between now and the end of the season are deluding themselves. It isn't happening and it isn't happening because they just aren't very good.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 16, 2019 20:21:07 GMT
I seem to be out of step with many on this MB.
In the short time Jones has been here he has turned round what was the worst defence in the Prem last season and possibly even worse at the start of this season. Rowett made some improvement by going very negative, but we still looked fragile. The addition of Batth, improvement in Edwards, and return to form of Ryan has made us look very solid despite only having a make-shift LB.
We have a major issue with goal creation and scoring. But that decline started when Arni left and hit rock bottom when Shaq left leaving us without a creative forward. Any of the top scorers in the Prem would struggle to score goals in this team.
Our only player of late to pose any creative threat has been Edwards. Today we saw we may have another in Verlinden.
We are not going to be a goal scoring team until we have replaced Berahino, Ince, Diouf, Afobe, and McClean, and signed truly creative MF players that make openings in defences. My judgement on Vokes is on hold, but so far I'm not impressed.
So it is pointless getting on Jones' back, he only has the players he has to work with. He's made a start, removed a number of faces (I think he would have moved out more if he could), and is giving young players a chance. It is clearly going to be a long process.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 16, 2019 20:42:35 GMT
I totally back jones but we need some improvement, some wins, and some goals soon. The legacy of our decade in the top flight is being destroyed and we are alienating our supporters But I won't be judging jones until next season I don't think it gets much better with this squad if at all.
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Post by StoKeith on Mar 16, 2019 21:45:39 GMT
It took Daniel Farke three windows to get Norwich playing how he wanted. I posted the details of their improvement on another thread. I hope Jones can do similar things here.
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Post by harrysburrow on Mar 16, 2019 21:56:06 GMT
Another goal would be nice.
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Post by cmc89 on Mar 16, 2019 21:58:46 GMT
I totally back jones but we need some improvement, some wins, and some goals soon. The legacy of our decade in the top flight is being destroyed and we are alienating our supporters But I won't be judging jones until next season What are you suddenly expecting to change?I will only accept an Ole Gunnar style squad response with the subsequent love in. If we aren't in champions league within 3 seasons then i'll throw away the arm chair I support my team from.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 16, 2019 22:00:30 GMT
We heard it when he joined, it still applies. Maybe some people have forgotten but it's a long road ahead for a total rebuild. I'm not even sure you can count the window past so maybe it'll be fair to judge him in 18 months. Jones was not brought in to recycle this squad but to build a completely new one. It'll be fair to judge him when all the deadwood has left. It'll be fair to judge him when the club sort the shit out behind the scenes. He's been sent into the coliseum with a plastic toy sword. Edit : Nerf gun would have been a better analogy!
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Mar 17, 2019 8:05:52 GMT
I totally back jones but we need some improvement, some wins, and some goals soon. The legacy of our decade in the top flight is being destroyed and we are alienating our supporters But I won't be judging jones until next season What are you suddenly expecting to change? Jones can't and won't get this lot firing to any great degree. Rowett brought the damn players, by and large, and he struggled to get them firing. The reason is some of them just aren't very good and as a unit they just don't and won't click. What Jones achieved at Luton wasn't a mistake or luck, he didn't discover a magical formula where he kissed James Justin's knob at 3 minutes to 3 every week and the magic just happened. He built a side over time with components that fit together and he'll have a good go here with the same fair wind. Anyone expecting him to click his fingers and get this lot firing between now and the end of the season are deluding themselves. It isn't happening and it isn't happening because they just aren't very good. I am a staunch backer of this manager. I totally agree that the squad is hopelessly imbalanced and that isn't the fault of Nathan Jones. But I think it is crucial for next season, and the summer transfer window, that jones finds a way of winning 3-4 games between now and the end of the season. We need to start building up confidence. I think performances have improved and Batth has sorted out the defence. We now need to see an improvement in results. I think dropping Ince and giving someone else a go would be a good move. Maybe also trying something else in midfield, which is looking shambolic. It would be nice to see some efforts on goal. I just want to see him find some answers to these problems notwithstanding this group of players is still not his own. He has a free hit this season though and I think everyone on here bar the odd few realises that
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Post by warringtonstokie on Mar 17, 2019 8:44:51 GMT
People really don’t understand the complexities of getting the players used to Jones’ style, do they? No it isn’t great at the moment but he’s stuck with a squad of average players and mercenaries and we’re starting to show decent improvements, we could’ve won 3-0 yesterday with the luck on our side. Took Klopp, Guardiola, Farke etc months and years to implement their styles so just calm down.
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Post by potterpaul on Mar 17, 2019 10:07:14 GMT
People really don’t understand the complexities of getting the players used to Jones’ style, do they? No it isn’t great at the moment but he’s stuck with a squad of average players and mercenaries and we’re starting to show decent improvements, we could’ve won 3-0 yesterday with the luck on our side. Took Klopp, Guardiola, Farke etc months and years to implement their styles so just calm down. You do realise Jones abandoned his 'complex' style weeks ago and have reverted back to the style that we have played for much of the season with the same players, and we have still only got half of it right.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 17, 2019 10:07:24 GMT
3 windows is a hell of a long free pass. There simply has to be discernible improvement along the way, something to cling on to and believe in.
There's been zilch so far.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 17, 2019 10:15:54 GMT
People really don’t understand the complexities of getting the players used to Jones’ style, do they? No it isn’t great at the moment but he’s stuck with a squad of average players and mercenaries and we’re starting to show decent improvements, we could’ve won 3-0 yesterday with the luck on our side. Took Klopp, Guardiola, Farke etc months and years to implement their styles so just calm down. You do realise Jones abandoned his 'complex' style weeks ago and have reverted back to the style that we have played for much of the season with the same players, and we have still only got half of it right. He's abandoned the diamond because he's likely realised it's simply impossible to implement it at present with the players at his disposal. I think there are signs he's instilling his ethos little by little.
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Post by potterpaul on Mar 17, 2019 10:23:40 GMT
You do realise Jones abandoned his 'complex' style weeks ago and have reverted back to the style that we have played for much of the season with the same players, and we have still only got half of it right. He's abandoned the diamond because he's likely realised it's simply impossible to implement it at present with the players at his disposal. I think there are signs he's instilling his ethos little by little. What's the difference between struggling to implement a system that we are supposedly looking to use in the future and struggling to implement a system that is more than likely redundant in 8 weeks time. Absolute madness and he is coming across as a bit of a quitter
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 17, 2019 10:47:55 GMT
He's abandoned the diamond because he's likely realised it's simply impossible to implement it at present with the players at his disposal. I think there are signs he's instilling his ethos little by little. What's the difference between struggling to implement a system that we are supposedly looking to use in the future and struggling to implement a system that is more than likely redundant in 8 weeks time. Absolute madness and he is coming across as a bit of a quitter Is this a trick question Paul? The difference is presumably that in the future he'll look to recruit players who do suit his system whereas at present he doesn't? Is it not admirable to try and work with what you have for now and explore various options? It's clear he's trying to get them working harder than they've been used to, trying to get certain players to press more, trying to get others to be more disciplined. That should help when he's looking to get the diamond bedded in over the summer.
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Post by nott1 on Mar 17, 2019 10:53:22 GMT
He's not up to the job,it's obvious. He talks crap, picks bad teams, doesn't motivate, makes bad sub decisions, has no proper working system, disses players and his football is crap. Most of all though his decisions are not winning games. He will not get us out of this league unless we go down.
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Post by warringtonstokie on Mar 17, 2019 11:01:18 GMT
People really don’t understand the complexities of getting the players used to Jones’ style, do they? No it isn’t great at the moment but he’s stuck with a squad of average players and mercenaries and we’re starting to show decent improvements, we could’ve won 3-0 yesterday with the luck on our side. Took Klopp, Guardiola, Farke etc months and years to implement their styles so just calm down. You do realise Jones abandoned his 'complex' style weeks ago and have reverted back to the style that we have played for much of the season with the same players, and we have still only got half of it right. He abandoned the formation, not the style.
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Post by potterpaul on Mar 17, 2019 11:05:02 GMT
What's the difference between struggling to implement a system that we are supposedly looking to use in the future and struggling to implement a system that is more than likely redundant in 8 weeks time. Absolute madness and he is coming across as a bit of a quitter Is this a trick question Paul? The difference is presumably that in the future he'll look to recruit players who do suit his system whereas at present he doesn't? Is it not admirable to try and work with what you have for now and explore various options? It's clear he's trying to get them working harder than they've been used to, trying to get certain players to press more, trying to get others to be more disciplined. That should help when he's looking to get the diamond bedded in over the summer. So it's Lambert MKII then? I have got this awful feeling that not continuing with the plans he came with is going to hurt us badly next season. We are never going to shift enough players this summer to allow his diamond to work any where near what he hopes and we will again see us shifting ideas and ending up in the same boat. We are going to see a handful of new recruits who understand his methods and the rest made up of the useless lumps we couldn't shift, leaving us again with a mish mash of crap to watch for much of the season. That's why I want him to get back to what he knows best and get as many of these tossers a little bit more savvy with his thinking instead of letting the useless turds control his plans completely.
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Post by citynickscfc on Mar 17, 2019 11:15:31 GMT
Thats based on the recruitment team getting it right as well. That's a good one...
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 17, 2019 11:25:19 GMT
3 windows is a hell of a long free pass. There simply has to be discernible improvement along the way, something to cling on to and believe in. There's been zilch so far. I agree 3 windows is a hell of a long time, in fact too long normally, but I don't think Jones has inherited a normal situation judging by what has been apparently going on behind the scenes and out in the open in the case of Berahino. I don't agree that zilch has happened, in any renovation job you have to remove what is rotten and decayed and past its usefulness, before you start to refurbish. The last 3 managers have been trying to do that and Jones has made the deepest cuts so far in letting Crouch and Pieters go, as he does not see them in his long term plans. Meanwhile he has to make do with many inadequate players and it is going to be a long process, bearing in mind we have a lot of uselessness out on loan and due to return in a few months. All of them were from the Hughes era, and Jones has to also sort out the dross Rowett brought into the club. I think he is trying hard to turn them round, but so far it is failing. That I think is more down to Ince, McClean, Clucas, Woods, and Afobe failing than it is Jones failing, but some posters think a manager has a magic wand. I agree there has been zilch improvement in results, but the defence is now looking its most sound since the Pulis days and we can expect a proper LB in due course. Our goal scoring has been dire, but at least yesterday we tried to shoot and hit the woodwork. If Indi can hold up at LB for the time being, Verlinden keep Clucas out, Adam have a swan song, and Vokes find his bearings and recapture some of his best Burnley form, then we could start winning soon. I'm not expecting that to happen, just wishing, as I don't expect major improvement till we resolve our "soft middle". We need someone to play in front of the back line who will not let the opposition past/pass. I'm not saying we shouldn't have sold Whelan, we should have replaced him with a younger, faster version. When things turn for the better it will be sudden and within a month a lot of people will get excited, probably too excited too soon.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 17, 2019 11:49:00 GMT
Is this a trick question Paul? The difference is presumably that in the future he'll look to recruit players who do suit his system whereas at present he doesn't? Is it not admirable to try and work with what you have for now and explore various options? It's clear he's trying to get them working harder than they've been used to, trying to get certain players to press more, trying to get others to be more disciplined. That should help when he's looking to get the diamond bedded in over the summer. So it's Lambert MKII then? I have got this awful feeling that not continuing with the plans he came with is going to hurt us badly next season. We are never going to shift enough players this summer to allow his diamond to work any where near what he hopes and we will again see us shifting ideas and ending up in the same boat. We are going to see a handful of new recruits who understand his methods and the rest made up of the useless lumps we couldn't shift, leaving us again with a mish mash of crap to watch for much of the season. That's why I want him to get back to what he knows best and get as many of these tossers a little bit more savvy with his thinking instead of letting the useless turds control his plans completely. I don't follow you. What do you mean by Lambert Mk 2 exactly? It's not that nobody in the squad is capable of playing the diamond, it's that currently there are key components missing. We don't have a left back, which is unhinging the entire project. It's not clear if we have a number 10 who can do what Jones wants them to do in that role. Vokes probably needs a partner if Campbell isn't ready too. He'll have a whole summer to work with the players on what he wants from them and funds to start getting in the type of players he wants. He is getting them more savvy with his thinking. There are ways of doing that without introducing everything wholesale at once.
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Post by colinroberts1 on Mar 17, 2019 12:17:51 GMT
You do realise Jones abandoned his 'complex' style weeks ago and have reverted back to the style that we have played for much of the season with the same players, and we have still only got half of it right. He's abandoned the diamond because he's likely realised it's simply impossible to implement it at present with the players at his disposal. I think there are signs he's instilling his ethos little by little. ^ this. He can't play his fast attacking football with players that are used to playing at over 50s walking football.
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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on Mar 17, 2019 16:47:48 GMT
Thats based on the recruitment team getting it right as well. Oh shit! We're fucked then. Honestly they would be the first two i fucked off and that's saying something.
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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on Mar 17, 2019 16:55:26 GMT
He's not up to the job,it's obvious. He talks crap, picks bad teams, doesn't motivate, makes bad sub decisions, has no proper working system, disses players and his football is crap. Most of all though his decisions are not winning games. He will not get us out of this league unless we go down. I'm more than happy to meet up for a pint at the last home game of next season to discuss this statement.
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Post by nott1 on Mar 17, 2019 16:56:22 GMT
He's not up to the job,it's obvious. He talks crap, picks bad teams, doesn't motivate, makes bad sub decisions, has no proper working system, disses players and his football is crap. Most of all though his decisions are not winning games. He will not get us out of this league unless we go down. I'm more than happy to meet up for a pint at the last home game of next season to discuss this statement. Yes Nathan
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Post by stokefan1972 on Mar 17, 2019 16:57:11 GMT
He's not up to the job,it's obvious. He talks crap, picks bad teams, doesn't motivate, makes bad sub decisions, has no proper working system, disses players and his football is crap. Most of all though his decisions are not winning games. He will not get us out of this league unless we go down. I'm more than happy to meet up for a pint at the last home game of next season to discuss this statement. threatening?
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