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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 20, 2019 10:21:01 GMT
Brilliant. Well worth £13m that. Maybe he should run for the sake of it then. Benik is a goalscorer, give him chances and he will score. What is ince? What is Allen? What is etebo? What is JM? Here lies the problem Yeah, the whole 'running' thing tends to help with creating chances. You know, being in the right place at the right time, opening up space etc. Just hoping the ball is played precisely where you want it every single time isn't a luxury the likes of Sergio Aguero or Harry Kane even get, let alone a Championship striker.
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Post by realstokebloke on Mar 20, 2019 10:23:44 GMT
Remember going to see Blackpool / Palace in the C'ship (whenever that was now) and it was rumoured that we were sniffing around Ince as a rising star (& before he and his dad did their disgusting whore tour of GB round interested clubs).
Anyway, if I was scouting, he would have got a 3 even then (& he was supposedly ripping it up there too) and quite frankly displayed all the traits we now see and accuse him of even then.
(And even then, you could have given him the benefit by virtue of him being so much younger and still learning.)
I'd have signed Matt Phillips that day on the other hand, looked twice / three times the player.
Long story short: he hasn't changed one bit and it was a really bad day we signed him, especially for 12 large.
What’s happened to Matt Phillips? A name I haven’t heard in a while. Not really kept tabs on him tbh.
And while I really CBA'd to check it, I believe he's still at West Brazil?
Don't think he's been playing of late though, so may be injured?
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Post by berahinosgoals on Mar 20, 2019 10:24:59 GMT
Maybe he should run for the sake of it then. Benik is a goalscorer, give him chances and he will score. What is ince? What is Allen? What is etebo? What is JM? Here lies the problem Yeah, the whole 'running' thing tends to help with creating chances. You know, being in the right place at the right time, opening up space etc. Just hoping the ball is played precisely where you want it every single time isn't a luxury the likes of Sergio Aguero or Harry Kane even get, let alone a Championship striker. Look at his wolves goals last season, it's amazing what you can do when you get numbers forward with an intent, idea & ability to make something happen. Aguero & Kane would struggle with the box of tricks we have to call a midfield
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 20, 2019 10:31:45 GMT
Yeah, the whole 'running' thing tends to help with creating chances. You know, being in the right place at the right time, opening up space etc. Just hoping the ball is played precisely where you want it every single time isn't a luxury the likes of Sergio Aguero or Harry Kane even get, let alone a Championship striker. Look at his wolves goals last season, it's amazing what you can do when you get numbers forward with an intent, idea & ability to make something happen. Aguero & Kane would struggle with the box of tricks we have to call a midfield You talk me through them, I take it you've seen them? What were they like? 6 in 16 is decent enough, though not enough for them to want to keep him?
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Tom Ince
Mar 20, 2019 10:32:05 GMT
via mobile
Post by berahinosgoals on Mar 20, 2019 10:32:05 GMT
What you want is some shit hot pacey wingers. Who run direct and take the ball upfield with them in seconds, centre mid take turns to push up and support, 2 strikers to add numbers. 2 full backs that can get up & down aswell as overlap bringing wingers infield also adds numbers. Forward in numbers opens up opportunities for obvious reasons.
442 is such a simple and wonderful formation
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 20, 2019 10:44:47 GMT
What you want is some shit hot pacey wingers. Who run direct and take the ball upfield with them in seconds, centre mid take turns to push up and support, 2 strikers to add numbers. 2 full backs that can get up & down aswell as overlap bringing wingers infield also adds numbers. Forward in numbers opens up opportunities for obvious reasons. 442 is such a simple and wonderful formation So wonderful that hardly anyone plays it anymore. Did you just stop watching football in about 1988?
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Tom Ince
Mar 20, 2019 10:46:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by berahinosgoals on Mar 20, 2019 10:46:37 GMT
What you want is some shit hot pacey wingers. Who run direct and take the ball upfield with them in seconds, centre mid take turns to push up and support, 2 strikers to add numbers. 2 full backs that can get up & down aswell as overlap bringing wingers infield also adds numbers. Forward in numbers opens up opportunities for obvious reasons. 442 is such a simple and wonderful formation So wonderful that hardly anyone plays it anymore. Did you just stop watching football in about 1988? Nobody played it when Leicester won the league with it. It's a classic formation that will always work
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 20, 2019 10:57:29 GMT
So wonderful that hardly anyone plays it anymore. Did you just stop watching football in about 1988? Nobody played it when Leicester won the league with it. It's a classic formation that will always work It doesn't always work now. Teams frequently get overrun in midfield with it and it tends to make teams predictable and focus all your creativity down the wings.
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Tom Ince
Mar 20, 2019 11:02:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by berahinosgoals on Mar 20, 2019 11:02:33 GMT
Nobody played it when Leicester won the league with it. It's a classic formation that will always work It doesn't always work now. Teams frequently get overrun in midfield with it and it tends to make teams predictable and focus all your creativity down the wings. It requires the right players the same as any other formation to be used at it's greatest effect. 2 good full backs capable of getting up & makes a massive difference. 2 wingers that run with the balllike etherington gets that ball forward in seconds. We've got a good front 2 to play it in Benik & vokes. In summer 2 pacey natural wingers and 2 adequate full backs and we are well on the way to an effective system. Etebo would suit it. You seem to be a trend follower and not a trend setter. You've assumed poachers don't work in the modern game and now 442 has no place because others don't use it.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 20, 2019 11:09:08 GMT
It doesn't always work now. Teams frequently get overrun in midfield with it and it tends to make teams predictable and focus all your creativity down the wings. It requires the right players the same as any other formation to be used at it's greatest effect. 2 good full backs capable of getting up & makes a massive difference. 2 wingers that run with the balllike etherington gets that ball forward in seconds. We've got a good front 2 to play it in Benik & vokes. In summer 2 pacey natural wingers and 2 adequate full backs and we are well on the way to an effective system. Etebo would suit it. You seem to be a trend follower and not a trend setter. You've assumed poachers don't work in the modern game and now 442 has no place because others don't use it. Yes, it takes a real 'trend setter' to not be able to see past 442, like Mike Bassett. Poachers don't work in the modern game. The fact that you thought Dennis Bergkamp was one suggests you don't know what one is. 442 has a place with the right players but I don't think it gets you that far, generally, because it's pretty easy to blot out unless you have some sort of variant of it that allows for a lot more moving parts. Thankfully, that seems to be NJ's plan, though it won't have any wingers in it.
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Post by realstokebloke on Mar 20, 2019 11:11:29 GMT
The actual words aside (which are, as far as I can tell, the usual waffle) body language, tone and demeanour tell you a lot.
This fella looks like he just lost the winning lottery ticket.
Let's hope he's not pencilled in to do any upcoming pre-match pep talks.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 20, 2019 11:16:18 GMT
The actual words aside (which are, as far as I can tell, the usual waffle) body language, tone and demeanour tell you a lot.
This fella looks like he just lost the winning lottery ticket.
Let's hope he's not pencilled in to do any upcoming pre-match pep talks.Do they, or is that just what he's like and it actually means nothing whatsoever?
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Tom Ince
Mar 20, 2019 11:17:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by berahinosgoals on Mar 20, 2019 11:17:18 GMT
It requires the right players the same as any other formation to be used at it's greatest effect. 2 good full backs capable of getting up & makes a massive difference. 2 wingers that run with the balllike etherington gets that ball forward in seconds. We've got a good front 2 to play it in Benik & vokes. In summer 2 pacey natural wingers and 2 adequate full backs and we are well on the way to an effective system. Etebo would suit it. You seem to be a trend follower and not a trend setter. You've assumed poachers don't work in the modern game and now 442 has no place because others don't use it. Yes, it takes a real 'trend setter' to not be able to see past 442, like Mike Bassett. Poachers don't work in the modern game. The fact that you thought Dennis Bergkamp was one suggests you don't know what one is. 442 has a place with the right players but I don't think it gets you that far, generally, because it's pretty easy to blot out unless you have some sort of variant of it that allows for a lot more moving parts. Thankfully, that seems to be NJ's plan, though it won't have any wingers in it. It takes a real trend follower to completely write off something because of what others do or don't do. I assume you buy fashion mags to dress accordingly and on par with how it's supposed to be done? A goal poacher lurks in and around the business end to sniff out any potential opportunities, they position themselves accordingly as their teammates build up the play. The problem Benik has is his team mates don't build up the play, he has no invention to feed off, that much is obvious. To suggest bergkamp wasn't a master of the above is daft. You could say he played number 10 because he was also very good creatively with his feet. We are talking about a world class striker in bergkamp though, not a 'good championship one. very often bergkamp played like a poacher, he had the instincts of a poacher.
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Post by mrred on Mar 20, 2019 11:19:12 GMT
Talking about zest in attack and being patient after 3 years of perpetual guff and after his particular performance on Saturday? I've got every bit of time for Jones' philosophy to be implemented. However I've no time for waste of spaces that can't even be arsed to turn up for a match and put in the most stagnant performances possible. Shove it up your arse eh, Tom.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 20, 2019 11:30:56 GMT
Yes, it takes a real 'trend setter' to not be able to see past 442, like Mike Bassett. Poachers don't work in the modern game. The fact that you thought Dennis Bergkamp was one suggests you don't know what one is. 442 has a place with the right players but I don't think it gets you that far, generally, because it's pretty easy to blot out unless you have some sort of variant of it that allows for a lot more moving parts. Thankfully, that seems to be NJ's plan, though it won't have any wingers in it. It takes a real trend follower to completely write off something because of what others do or don't do. I assume you buy fashion mags to dress accordingly and on par with how it's supposed to be done? A goal poacher lurks in and around the business end to sniff out any potential opportunities, they position themselves accordingly as their teammates build up the play. The problem Benik has is his team mates don't build up the play, he has no invention to feed off, that much is obvious. To suggest bergkamp wasn't a master of the above is daft. You could say he played number 10 because he was also very good creatively with his feet. We are talking about a world class striker in bergkamp though, not a 'good championship one. very often bergkamp played like a poacher, he had the instincts of a poacher. A poacher is a player who goal hangs and doesn’t do much else. Bergkamp was an orchestrator. So in short, nope. Yeah, I base stuff on the evidence rather than, erm nothing. Radical, eh?
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Tom Ince
Mar 20, 2019 11:37:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by berahinosgoals on Mar 20, 2019 11:37:01 GMT
It takes a real trend follower to completely write off something because of what others do or don't do. I assume you buy fashion mags to dress accordingly and on par with how it's supposed to be done? A goal poacher lurks in and around the business end to sniff out any potential opportunities, they position themselves accordingly as their teammates build up the play. The problem Benik has is his team mates don't build up the play, he has no invention to feed off, that much is obvious. To suggest bergkamp wasn't a master of the above is daft. You could say he played number 10 because he was also very good creatively with his feet. We are talking about a world class striker in bergkamp though, not a 'good championship one. very often bergkamp played like a poacher, he had the instincts of a poacher. A poacher is a player who goal hangs and doesn’t do much else. Bergkamp was an orchestrator. So in short, nope. Yeah, I base stuff on the evidence rather than, erm nothing. Radical, eh? Bergkamp scored so many goals because he had the positional sense of a poacher,you're right he was an orchestrater but not all orchestraters score lots of goals. Bergkamp was world class, he could do both As for benik our good championship striker, one man's saving energy is another man's laziness. Benik reserves his energy to burst into life when he sniffs an opportunity, thats the type of player he is. The problem is Benik isn't sniffing any opportunities for the simple reason there isn't any
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Post by westgatelakes on Mar 20, 2019 11:40:56 GMT
yep - the supply from both wings has been nothing short of atrocious, hence the ridiculously low figure in the goals scored column (only in my opinion of course) There stats stand up agains the midfield mate ,bit unfair to just blame the wingers for a shit season ,think there are quite a few issues with this team at the minute . PLAYED. GOALS. ASSISTS Total / Average 36 6 5 INCE Total / Average 39 2 6 MCCLEAN Total / Average 42 6 5. Allan Total / Average 37. 1 0. Etobo I agree that there are numerous reasons why we are having a terrible season and, apart from one or two individuals perhaps, most of our squad have under-performed, but I honestly believe that we won`t improve unless we replace our two wingers or wide diamond men whatever they`re meant to be.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 20, 2019 11:41:30 GMT
A poacher is a player who goal hangs and doesn’t do much else. Bergkamp was an orchestrator. So in short, nope. Yeah, I base stuff on the evidence rather than, erm nothing. Radical, eh? Bergkamp scored so many goals because he had the positional sense of a poacher,you're right he was an orchestrater but not all orchestraters score lots of goals. Bergkamp was world class, he could do both As for benik our good championship striker, one man's saving energy is another man's laziness. Benik reserves his energy to burst into life when he sniffs an opportunity, thats the type of player he is. The problem is Benik isn't sniffing any opportunities for the simple reason there isn't any Good strikers help create opportunities for themselves with their all round play and movement. Bergkamp didn’t get many tap ins, he made goals for himself a lot of the time. Aguero has a poacher’s instincts but there’s far, far more to him than that. The days of being a pure poacher are over.
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Tom Ince
Mar 20, 2019 12:00:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by berahinosgoals on Mar 20, 2019 12:00:24 GMT
Bergkamp scored so many goals because he had the positional sense of a poacher,you're right he was an orchestrater but not all orchestraters score lots of goals. Bergkamp was world class, he could do both As for benik our good championship striker, one man's saving energy is another man's laziness. Benik reserves his energy to burst into life when he sniffs an opportunity, thats the type of player he is. The problem is Benik isn't sniffing any opportunities for the simple reason there isn't any Good strikers help create opportunities for themselves with their all round play and movement. Bergkamp didn’t get many tap ins, he made goals for himself a lot of the time. Aguero has a poacher’s instincts but there’s far, far more to him than that. The days of being a pure poacher are over. I think there is more to Benik than that, he'll make the runs but he needs the balls to do so, which just arnt coming. He's like a stranded man in the Sahara hoping for a drop of rain
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Tom Ince
Mar 20, 2019 14:53:06 GMT
via mobile
Post by jontimmis on Mar 20, 2019 14:53:06 GMT
His body language is defeated
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Post by realstokebloke on Mar 20, 2019 16:04:33 GMT
The actual words aside (which are, as far as I can tell, the usual waffle) body language, tone and demeanour tell you a lot.
This fella looks like he just lost the winning lottery ticket.
Let's hope he's not pencilled in to do any upcoming pre-match pep talks.Do they, or is that just what he's like and it actually means nothing whatsoever? Maybe he is.
However the net effect certainly doesn't exactly radiate full on positivity though does it?
And in which case, I'd keep him a million miles away from the interrnal 'positive PR machine'.
Plus for me, he'd need an absolute boat load of talent to offset that mardy fizzog to warrant him in or near the 'group' in case he put the rest of the poor souls on anti depressants.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 20, 2019 17:14:05 GMT
Do they, or is that just what he's like and it actually means nothing whatsoever? Maybe he is.
However the net effect certainly doesn't exactly radiate full on positivity though does it?
And in which case, I'd keep him a million miles away from the interrnal 'positive PR machine'.
Plus for me, he'd need an absolute boat load of talent to offset that mardy fizzog to warrant him in or near the 'group' in case he put the rest of the poor souls on anti depressants.
I think fans read way too much into that sort of thing personally.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 20, 2019 17:16:06 GMT
Good strikers help create opportunities for themselves with their all round play and movement. Bergkamp didn’t get many tap ins, he made goals for himself a lot of the time. Aguero has a poacher’s instincts but there’s far, far more to him than that. The days of being a pure poacher are over. I think there is more to Benik than that, he'll make the runs but he needs the balls to do so, which just arnt coming. He's like a stranded man in the Sahara hoping for a drop of rain That's just the point though. He doesn't make the runs and you need to in order to give the angles and options for those supplying the service. Frequently when we're trying to get on the front foot he's just standing there, Jones frequently bollocks him for not working the channels or his lack of movement. He's as culpable as the midfielders for his own lack of opportunities.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Mar 20, 2019 17:38:33 GMT
Riccy Fuller made nearly all his own goals.
He was a threat and so despite us barely committing anyone forward during the pulis era, and playing the midfield cage,he made a lot of space for the other 1 or 2 players who were in support.
And you could give him the ball in any situation and he would keep it.
Good grief what I'd give for a Riccy Fuller right now
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 20, 2019 18:52:07 GMT
Yes, it takes a real 'trend setter' to not be able to see past 442, like Mike Bassett. Poachers don't work in the modern game. The fact that you thought Dennis Bergkamp was one suggests you don't know what one is. 442 has a place with the right players but I don't think it gets you that far, generally, because it's pretty easy to blot out unless you have some sort of variant of it that allows for a lot more moving parts. Thankfully, that seems to be NJ's plan, though it won't have any wingers in it. It takes a real trend follower to completely write off something because of what others do or don't do. I assume you buy fashion mags to dress accordingly and on par with how it's supposed to be done? A goal poacher lurks in and around the business end to sniff out any potential opportunities, they position themselves accordingly as their teammates build up the play. The problem Benik has is his team mates don't build up the play, he has no invention to feed off, that much is obvious. To suggest bergkamp wasn't a master of the above is daft. You could say he played number 10 because he was also very good creatively with his feet. We are talking about a world class striker in bergkamp though, not a 'good championship one. very often bergkamp played like a poacher, he had the instincts of a poacher. Can we not just launch it?
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Post by foxysgloves on Mar 20, 2019 19:20:57 GMT
I know he was a horrible fucker but every time I watch Ince I can’t help but wish he was his father.
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Post by wakeypotter on Mar 20, 2019 19:51:06 GMT
I know he was a horrible fucker but every time I watch Ince I can’t help but wish he was his father. Every time I watch ince I wished bojan was on instead 😁
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Tom Ince
Mar 20, 2019 20:12:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by berahinosgoals on Mar 20, 2019 20:12:32 GMT
It takes a real trend follower to completely write off something because of what others do or don't do. I assume you buy fashion mags to dress accordingly and on par with how it's supposed to be done? A goal poacher lurks in and around the business end to sniff out any potential opportunities, they position themselves accordingly as their teammates build up the play. The problem Benik has is his team mates don't build up the play, he has no invention to feed off, that much is obvious. To suggest bergkamp wasn't a master of the above is daft. You could say he played number 10 because he was also very good creatively with his feet. We are talking about a world class striker in bergkamp though, not a 'good championship one. very often bergkamp played like a poacher, he had the instincts of a poacher. Can we not just launch it? Why not? Doesn't hurt now & again. Depends who is launching it though, if it's stoke it's a launch, if it's man Utd it's a long pass
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Post by nonameface on Mar 20, 2019 22:04:16 GMT
Riccy Fuller made nearly all his own goals. He was a threat and so despite us barely committing anyone forward during the pulis era, and playing the midfield cage,he made a lot of space for the other 1 or 2 players who were in support. And you could give him the ball in any situation and he would keep it. Good grief what I'd give for a Riccy Fuller right now So few strikers are anything like how Fuller was. We were incredibly lucky to have had him and whilst he had a good career, his talent should have taken him to regular European football.
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 20, 2019 22:11:04 GMT
Can we not just launch it? Why not? Doesn't hurt now & again. Depends who is launching it though, if it's stoke it's a launch, if it's man Utd it's a long pass Knew we'd get there in the end.
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