How bad could this get?

[Trouserdog]

I have to be honest, i was fuming after that equaliser went in this afternoon. It just seems that no matter what the situation, we find a way of fucking it up. Coasting 1-0 against the worst side in the division and the manager decides he's going to throw on the quite frankly fucking useless Benik Afobe to play on the wing, then compounds the error by chucking Ryan on at the back, thus creating chaos out of what was previously a comfortable and organised defensive performance. It pains me to say it, but we look incapable of winning any game of football against any team in Britain at the moment. Even The Vale would probably beat us- that's how bad the situation's become.

How much worse could it get though? Despite this afternoon's clusterfuck of a managerial performance, it's too early to judge Nathan Jones yet: he's inherited the biggest mess I think any Stoke manager has found himself landed with. However, I can't see how anybody could turn this around- we have a squad of expensive, high earning tosspots on long contracts who no-one in their right mind would want to buy. If this squad were in League One, I'm not sure they'd even finish in the top half, that's how utterly fucking awful they are. How is anyone supposed to sort that out? The whole atmosphere around the club stinks: it's a self-perpetuating culture of failure and antagonism. Fans turn up for matches expecting the worst, so that's what we end up getting. The first mistake players make we turn on them and as a result they go from bad to worse. However, the only reason we are so hostile is because those tosspots on the pitch continually let us down in the past and continue to do so now. It's a spiral of negativity that no one seems able to escape from.

We won't go down this season, but next...I'm worried already. The financial situation's not going to get any better and the club must already be haemorrhaging money through its wage bill. Could we do a Sunderland next year? Could it get even worse than that?

I'm genuinely worried that it could...and I really don't know what the answer is.

[skip]

We're in a tailspin and no mistake. I assume defeat in all but every game nowadays.

[Deleted]

Feb 16, 2019 22:11:56 GMT Trouserdog said:

I have to be honest, i was fuming after that equaliser went in this afternoon. It just seems that no matter what the situation, we find a way of fucking it up. Coasting 1-0 against the worst side in the division and the manager decides he's going to throw on the quite frankly fucking useless Benik Afobe to play on the wing, then compounds the error by chucking Ryan on at the back, thus creating chaos out of what was previously a comfortable and organised defensive performance. It pains me to say it, but we look incapable of winning any game of football against any team in Britain at the moment. Even The Vale would probably beat us- that's how bad the situation's become.

How much worse could it get though? Despite this afternoon's clusterfuck of a managerial performance, it's too early to judge Nathan Jones yet: he's inherited the biggest mess I think any Stoke manager has found himself landed with. However, I can't see how anybody could turn this around- we have a squad of expensive, high earning tosspots on long contracts who no-one in their right mind would want to buy. If this squad were in League One, I'm not sure they'd even finish in the top half, that's how utterly fucking awful they are. How is anyone supposed to sort that out? The whole atmosphere around the club stinks: it's a self-perpetuating culture of failure and antagonism. Fans turn up for matches expecting the worst, so that's what we end up getting. The first mistake players make we turn on them and as a result they go from bad to worse. However, the only reason we are so hostile is because those tosspots on the pitch continually let us down in the past and continue to do so now. It's a spiral of negativity that no one seems able to escape from.

We won't go down this season, but next...I'm worried already. The financial situation's not going to get any better and the club must already be haemorrhaging money through its wage bill. Could we do a Sunderland next year? Could it get even worse than that?

I'm genuinely worried that it could...and I really don't know what the answer is.

Excellent use of the word clusterfuck!

I can’t see this turning around any time soon and by soon I mean in the next couple of years...

[Deleted]

It could get a lot worse. Or a lot better. Or we could just stagnate.....

[Deleted]

I'd love Peter to declare that;

"I won't pay the players if they lose. Half pay for a draw, and full pay for a win.
Sort them out Nath!"

It's sad but if that happened I'm famned sure that things would turn around!

[Gods]

Yes, the elephant in the room is that we are already haemorrhaging wheel barrows full of bank notes on a weekly basis in the form of a loan to the club and the parachute payments are tailing to 45%, 20% and then nothing.

After that it's season ticket revenue (approx £10m per season) and media rights revenue (average £6m per season), a bit of sponsorship and that's about it.

Let's be kind and say £20m quid per season in total, to put that in perspective we spunked nearly that much on 2 lumps in the form of Vokes and Baath last month.

The current financial model doesn't look remotely sustainable to me since we haven't gone straight back up and frankly we won't be among the favourites to do so next season either.

Try as I might I can't see any happy ending here, only a return to the wilderness years.

[adamsson]

Feb 16, 2019 22:26:23 GMT Gods said:

Yes, the elephant in the room is that we are already haemorrhaging wheel barrows full of bank notes on a weekly basis in the form of a loan to the club and the parachute payments are tailing to 45%, 20% and then nothing.

After that it's season ticket revenue (approx £10m per season) and media rights revenue (average £6m per season) and that about it.

£16m quid per season, to put that in perspective we spunked that much on those 2 lumps Vokes and Baath last month.

The current financial model doesn't look remotely sustainable to me since we haven't gone straight back up and frankly we won't be among the favourites to do so next season either.

Try as I might I can't see any happy ending here, only a return to the wilderness years.

Yes and Scholes and Cartwright will still be in a job.

[kidcrewbob]

I'd like to think that we've enough points to not be drawn into a relegation scrap however the longer the wait for a win or two goes on the more I too wonder where this free fall will actually bottom out. Jones is having a nightmare despite his very likeable attitude and persona and I really feel for him.

Furthermore, not only are we struggling to buy a win we are also becoming toxic as a club which will hamper us big time when trying to attract talent and we'll end up paying daft money for mediocre mercenaries that will compound the problems if we continue - some may think we already have although I personally think we have a good squad for this league and am at a loss to pinpoint why we just cannot get more positive results.

On the whole I think all concerned both on and off the pitch, owners and supporters alike have been completely shell-shocked as to the dire consequences of relegation and were completely nieve, unprepared mentally and physically and oblivious as to the sheer effort and level of application required to survive and succeed at this level.

Scary shit indeed.

[jontimmis]

Feb 16, 2019 22:26:23 GMT Gods said:

Yes, the elephant in the room is that we are already haemorrhaging wheel barrows full of bank notes on a weekly basis in the form of a loan to the club and the parachute payments are tailing to 45%, 20% and then nothing.

After that it's season ticket revenue (approx £10m per season) and media rights revenue (average £6m per season) and that about it.

£16m quid per season, to put that in perspective we spunked that much on those 2 lumps Vokes and Baath last month.

The current financial model doesn't look remotely sustainable to me since we haven't gone straight back up and frankly we won't be among the favourites to do so next season either.

Try as I might I can't see any happy ending here, only a return to the wilderness years.

We are going to hit rock bottom!

We are a mess it’s simple. I don’t even care anymore it’s boring we can’t do anything. We’re just subject to shit!

[benjaminbiscuit]

As I’ve said before many times there is no situation Stoke city can’t make worse

[corkstokie]

Feb 16, 2019 22:58:05 GMT benjaminbiscuit said:

As I’ve said before many times there is no situation Stoke city can’t make worse

Double negative but I get the point

[boskampsflaps]

Feb 16, 2019 22:22:36 GMT @mazzler21 said:

I'd love Peter to declare that;

"I won't pay the players if they lose. Half pay for a draw, and full pay for a win.
Sort them out Nath!"

It's sad but if that happened I'm famned sure that things would turn around!

They'd just sue him for breach of contract

[DentySCFC]

I’m struggling to see where our next win is coming tbh.

Villa
Forest
QPR away
Derby away

We’re in a relegation scrap imo.

[expectedtoulouse]

It would really help if he played his two proven Championship goalscorers upfront together for a few games, his top level championship winger and the other winger who’s played most of his career in the Premier League and his Champions League quality No.10 in the No.10 position rather than the bat shit crazy square pegs in round holes and refusal to give certain players (Bojan, Diouf, Afobe) a fair chance.

I’m prepared to give Jones a fair chance but the evidence, to date, by his team selections, tactics and substitutions suggest he’s a total fuckwit.

[greystokie]

As you say we won't go down and we can write this season off where the manager experiments with the players he has. I think next season will also be a re-building exercise. We'll sign a few that the manager wants and get rid of a few that he doesn't. We will see some marginal improvement but I don't expect us to challenge for promotion. The following season, when we have a team mostly in the managers image, is when I expect significant improvement. I think we all have to acknowledge this is a long term project and there will be no simple and easy quick fixes.

[iglugluk]

What strikes me particularly is the speed with which this has all happened.
Sure, I know the signs were there a couple of years ago or so but the level of misjudgment on show over such a short time really does beggar belief.
I worry for the club long term right now.

[Olgrligm]

The worst case scenario would be sacking Rowett and appointing Jones turned out to be like sacking Chic Bates and appointing Chris Kamara.

That won't happen. I'm instead going for the best case scenario, wherein we get to the end of the season on whatever points possible and Jones gets to do a full clearout in the summer, while making good his promise to buy the right sort of players and leading us to promotion with a records point tally.

[dirtygary69]

We can’t even beat Ipswich who are miles adrift at the bottom of the league. That’s how bad we are currently which, in terms of a result, is pretty horrific. We didn’t lose but the fact we can’t beat the worst team in the league speaks volumes. There are 13 games left to play and even if our only points came from 5 more draws we’d stay up you would think.

As you say TD, it’s the next step that is the worry. Let’s start with the supporters - there will less season tickets sold and less bumper crowds than we’ve seen this season unless this corner is turned rapidly between now and May. Less supporters obviously means less money and a half empty stadium with supporters still pissed off with the situation we find ourselves in.

We all agreed that there needed to be massive clear out last season. That only really sort of happened and we are still hampered with those only out on loan. On top of that, we now have another 4 or 5 at least that you could add to those who aren’t fit for purpose, purchased at top whack Championship transfer fees and the wages to go with it. Who takes those players off us? Yet again, if Jones wants rid of Afobe, Ince etc then we‘ll make a huge loss as we have done countless times already.

When does this haemorrhaging of transfer fees and wages really impact us? We can’t just throw yet more money at it. My only hope and expectation is that Jones will be better on a tighter budget bringing in less expensive but better suited players, like both Pulis and Hughes seemed to be best at.

The fact is that, yet again, for Jones to truly put his stamp on it and employ his system properly, we need at least 10 players in and out and those sort of numbers don’t just happen overnight. I’m seeing he needs 3 or 4 windows to get it fixed completely but by that time we’re at the end of next season and out of parachute payments.

I want Jones to succeed and think he needs to because another managerial change means another manager wanting to come in with his own style, own players blah blah blah and we’ll never get anywhere as the players will never adjust. That said, we need to be seeing real signs of improvement before this season is out. You cannot train or teach patience in an already frustrated and angry fan base no matter how much people beg you to “stick with him” and if we end this season poorly the pressure is then in again from the off next season. Rightly or wrongly, that’s what will happen.

It isn’t a quick fix but it’s a fucking chore watching the team fail week after week, trying to implore patience in the hope that it eventually comes good. What if it never comes good? What if it only gets worse and worse? At what point do you cut it off? Another half season like Rowett got? What if we’re rock bottom come next January? How much faith would there be in the ‘project’ then? 

My feeling at the moment is that this is more likely to go wrong than it is to go right just because we’re a club going backwards at an alarming rate. Although we may not go down this season or next, the money dries up and crowds drop off significantly and we’re back to 2005 all over again. 

I would suggest it could get disastrous if Jones also fails to steady the ship. I hope beyond hope that he turns it around and makes us a force in this league at least but the past two years of rapid decline and sheer ineptitude isn’t giving me any cause for optimism.

Come on Stoke, please just sort yourselves out. 

[prettything]

The players we have bought, on the whole,have done well for other clubs.

Players like Tom Ince, have a fantastic record at this level. They don’t turn bad overnight .

We have been unfortunate in being tangled up with a situation where we have, for the first time in our history, out spent every other team in the league.

Fantastic, we have truly come a long way, however, this is new ground for us.

We have always been the underdog. Fuller for 250k, Delap for 500k,
etc. We made the most out of what we had.

Because of this, the fans expectations have created a toxic atmosphere when we lose or draw at home, against so called lesser opponents. Rowett was fired because he was viewed as underachieving for the money spent.

This isn’t a new phenomenon. Look at Villa.

We now find ourselves in a situation where we have a new manager, who is implementing a new system, one which is probably the most difficult and complicated to learn straight away.

This season is a right off. It’s time to reset our expectations, and build for next season.

We need to get behind and back Jones,with his vision for how he wants us to play.

There is no other way.

Football is simple. The more we win, the more the fans will get behind the team. They are suffering with a lack of confidence at the moment, the team and the fans.

It will get better. We have to stick together.

I don’t think for one moment the players don’t care. We’ve all been through a lot .

Give them time.

[dazzag99]

I for one am confident that he can turn it around next season,this season is a right off I just want to give him time to get his team there and playing after, the next transfer window I will judge him and then critsize him but until then give him a chance for fucks sake

[Staffsoatcake]

Not been able to get rid of the garbage in the summer,then still having them here again next season,so unable to bring in the players NJ Will want.
That's how bad it could get.

[Deleted]

Although I'm seemingly inviting ridicule for suggesting that relegation could happen this season, being realistic; I'm actually perfectly optimistic that we could turn it around already now. All it takes is a few wins. But where are those wins going to come from? Not from our current tactics and selections, for sure.

We need to pluck up the courage, go against the common grain, and select a few players who just don't seem to have much favour with the management, the one before that, and the one before that too. We need to bring in a couple of hungry youth players too, not eleven all at the same time, but bit by bit we have to make use of their potential, not sitting back and let it all rot.

No one will be surprised that I see Bojan as the on pitch leader we should rely heavily on. I would also select Diouf. He has a habit of doing a few things wrong, but he also has the sometime habit of getting something, such as a goal, out of nothing. Moreover he still has plenty of pace, which is needed if we are going to use the visionary play of Bojan - who's probably not so speedy anymore, or he won't be anyway unless we play him week in, week out. Then I'd also select Bauer in a midfield role. It's clear he's on the same wavelength as Bojan. I'd also select Verlinden, who also has pace, skill, and plenty of drive. I'd also give Collins a chance, he's a very talented defender, and just because he's an untried teenager doesn't mean he's no good. That's five players who could come into the team untarnished by the defeatist culture which looms so large within the current selection.

Do we dare to win?

[FrankButcher]

Feb 17, 2019 1:04:35 GMT Staffsoatcake said:

Not been able to get rid of the garbage in the summer,then still having them here again next season,so unable to bring in the players NJ Will want.
That's how bad it could get.

Exactly this, question is who would want any of this shit show of our squad?? People assuming that we will get a root and branch clear out in the summer is deluded we were promised a "complete overhaul" last summer and look what happened. We'll be stuck with these players and they are on big contracts which in itself Will be hard to shift and if most of this squad stay next season we'll be another Sunderland I'm afraid if we had started the season from when Jones joined we'd down at the bottom with Ipswich. I feel this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better unfortunately.

[Deleted]

Feb 17, 2019 5:49:56 GMT FrankButcher said:

Feb 17, 2019 1:04:35 GMT Staffsoatcake said:

Not been able to get rid of the garbage in the summer,then still having them here again next season,so unable to bring in the players NJ Will want.
That's how bad it could get.

Exactly this, question is who would want any of this shit show of our squad?? People assuming that we will get a root and branch clear out in the summer is deluded we were promised a "complete overhaul" last summer and look what happened. We'll be stuck with these players and they are on big contracts which in itself Will be hard to shift and if most of this squad stay next season we'll be another Sunderland I'm afraid if we had started the season from when Jones joined we'd down at the bottom with Ipswich. I feel this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better unfortunately.

There might be clubs who want those players on their reputation previous to joining us, but then they learn the excessive wages they're on and expect in their next job, and then it's no way. Well, the only way they might take someone on is if we will pay all, or 80% of their wages.

[lawrieleslie]

Some very realistic posts on this thread. So summarising them........we won’t be able to get rid of the dead wood until their contracts run down, players who are still on PL contracts will damage us financially as parachute payments rapidly decrease, we are signing decent championship players who turn into struggling mediocre specimens almost overnight, ST sales will fall as fans expectations are not remotely being fulfilled, atmosphere at home becoming more and more toxic as we constantly fail to perform against struggling teams and why aren’t we using our play makers more effectively if at all. It’s a mess for sure and one that won’t be sorted next season either. I still believe Jones will turn it round but it will take 2-3 years to do so.

[loosestools]

Stokerland till I die.

[sheikhmomo]

Jones will be given a shit load of money in the summer and the dross will simply have to be given away. If the family are sticking by the process then they're going to have to fucking well pay to clean its shit up.

If we don't put together a credible promotion push next year then Jones will have failed and he and his incomprehensible post match wafflings can fuck off as well.

[greenhoff]

It could get very bad. We are in a downward spiral of epic proportions.
Allied to that we are hamstrung by players who no one will want on big contracts.
We compounded it by adding more dross in the Summer.
Its very worrying.

[Deleted]

Feb 17, 2019 8:57:12 GMT sheikhmomo said:

Jones will be given a shit load of money in the summer and the dross will simply have to be given away. If the family are sticking by the process then they're going to have to fucking well pay to clean its shit up.

If we don't put together a credible promotion push next year then Jones will have failed and he and his incomprehensible post match wafflings can fuck off as well.

It will take longer than one summer and another season whether the manager is Nathan Jones or an experienced hand like David Moyes.

This job is too big for either to turn around so much malaise and mis-management so quickly.

[sheikhmomo]

Feb 17, 2019 8:58:39 GMT theonlooker said:

Feb 17, 2019 8:57:12 GMT sheikhmomo said:

Jones will be given a shit load of money in the summer and the dross will simply have to be given away. If the family are sticking by the process then they're going to have to fucking well pay to clean its shit up.

If we don't put together a credible promotion push next year then Jones will have failed and he and his incomprehensible post match wafflings can fuck off as well.

It will take longer than one summer and another season whether the manager is Nathan Jones or an experienced hand like David Moyes.

This job is too big for either to turn around so much malaise and mis-management so quickly.

That is way too much of a free pass. We'll probably have the biggest budget in the league again next year. Anything less than being in and around the top six will constitute massive failure.