|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 9:10:53 GMT
It will take longer than one summer and another season whether the manager is Nathan Jones or an experienced hand like David Moyes. This job is too big for either to turn around so much malaise and mis-management so quickly. That is way too much of a free pass. We'll probably have the biggest budget in the league again next year. Anything less than being in and around the top six will constitute massive failure. There's too much to sort out. Next season will be what this season should have been. Money spent on shifting players out, bringing the right type of player through the door and starting to build a new squad from scratch. The spending from last summer has just compounded the existing problems and created the need for more surgery than originally required. It's not so much a free pass but a startling reality of where we are. The first pass of the surgeons knife should be around about now (or after early bird) with the removal and replacement of the CEO and Technical Director, in readiness for what is without any shadow of doubt our most important summer of business in modern times.
|
|
|
Post by lawrieleslie on Feb 17, 2019 10:32:48 GMT
It could get very bad. We are in a downward spiral of epic proportions. Allied to that we are hamstrung by players who no one will want on big contracts. We compounded it by adding more dross in the Summer. Its very worrying. I don’t believe that they were dross though GH. We all welcomed the signings of experienced Championship players like Afobe, Woods, Clucas, Ince and McClean. But overnight they morphed into mediocre strugglers. Vokes is the same. Something is desperately wrong with our club that will not be sorted until we are rid of most of the PL players we have on our books. As I said earlier this is going to be a 2-3 year rebuild. The only PL players likely to be of any interest to other clubs are Butland and Allen and possibly Adam to another championship club. The rest will run down their contracts knowing that they are guaranteed £40-50k a week.
|
|
|
Post by deadwait on Feb 17, 2019 10:40:00 GMT
Sorry Nathan, thee tames up! Er blained mon on er gallopin oss cun say they atna up ter this level.
Goo droe thee caards un coppers nah.
|
|
|
Post by roylandstoke on Feb 17, 2019 10:48:19 GMT
The football at SCFC has been in total disarray since Mr Cartwright was appointed. While he remains in place I see no prospect of improvement.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 17, 2019 10:49:46 GMT
The football at SCFC has been in total disarray since Mr Cartwright was appointed. While he remains in place I see no prospect of improvement. Apart from the three 9th placed finishes and cup semi final in that time. Nice as it is to have a cast-iron scapegoat, I suspect the answer is rather messier and unpalatable.
|
|
|
Post by skelman on Feb 17, 2019 10:56:21 GMT
The worst case scenario would be sacking Rowett and appointing Jones turned out to be like sacking Chic Bates and appointing Chris Kamara. That won't happen. I'm instead going for the best case scenario, wherein we get to the end of the season on whatever points possible and Jones gets to do a full clearout in the summer, while making good his promise to buy the right sort of players and leading us to promotion with a records point tally. I suspect Jones won’t be able to exert much power in the big scheme of things!
|
|
|
Post by s7oke on Feb 17, 2019 11:02:21 GMT
The football at SCFC has been in total disarray since Mr Cartwright was appointed. While he remains in place I see no prospect of improvement. Apart from the three 9th placed finishes and cup semi final in that time. Nice as it is to have a cast-iron scapegoat, I suspect the answer is rather messier and unpalatable. I think we were lucky that the spine of our club was already in place when Cartwright came in and we had a strong manager in place also who strangely enough left the year after Cartwrights appointment!
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 17, 2019 11:08:26 GMT
Things won’t improve till Cartwright and Scholes go.
It’s an almighty mess that’s been going on for 3 years now.
Our best chance is to get to the end of the season and stay up. Then in the summer work our boots off moving on as many of this rabble as we can and start rebuilding.
The only players I’d look at trying to keep are
Bauer Edwards Campbell Batth Indi Etebo Vokes
The rest can go for me.
Then Jones needs to be allowed to buy his players not players driven by Cartwright and Scholes. Then we might just have a chance.
|
|
|
Post by potterpaul on Feb 17, 2019 11:15:13 GMT
To answer original question With recent revelations, quite a lot worse, guess we will find out sooner rather than later.
Fans don't take being lied to at best of times but when the club acts unscrupulously just to sell season tickets, it will backfire
|
|
|
Post by skelman on Feb 17, 2019 11:39:16 GMT
Inside Stoke’s academy: Why the club's long-term future is bright. - Sky Sports 24.02 2018
Stoke find themselves in the Premier League relegation zone but a mood of optimism surrounds the club’s long-term prospects thanks to their thriving academy. Adam Bate met up with academy director Gareth Jennings to find out more about how Stoke - who face Leicester on Saturday, live on Sky Sports - hope to become ‘a magnet’ for young talent by providing a clear pathway to the first team…
"It feels like in the Lion King when he looks out," laughs academy director Gareth Jennings. He has just opened the glass patio doors of his office that lead out to a balcony overlooking the many pitches at Stoke City's vast training ground. "I think it does wow people a little bit," he adds. It is not quite the Serengeti but he's right. It is an impressive sight.
ABSOLUTE JOKE!
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 17, 2019 11:56:14 GMT
Apart from the three 9th placed finishes and cup semi final in that time. Nice as it is to have a cast-iron scapegoat, I suspect the answer is rather messier and unpalatable. I think we were lucky that the spine of our club was already in place when Cartwright came in and we had a strong manager in place also who strangely enough left the year after Cartwrights appointment! If this strong manager is Pulis then getting rid was 100% the right decision. We were going backwards and he’d lost the plot completely. If it was all down to the spine he’d assembled why couldn’t he finish that high up the table himself? Hughes actually made some shrewd signings in his first two seasons, it’s just that when he was given money he too completely went round the bend.
|
|
|
Post by TheWiseMaster on Feb 17, 2019 12:01:26 GMT
I wonder if we had Ipswich's fans,would we actually play better?
There they are, rock bottom of the league with our cast off manager, fall behind to our fluke goal but carry of cheering their team until they equalise
I looked at their previous two games and the fans were the same - and they managed a draw against Derby, against the odds
Fan power eh - Worth a try?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 12:29:05 GMT
I wonder if we had Ipswich's fans,would we actually play better? There they are, rock bottom of the league with our cast off manager, fall behind to our fluke goal but carry of cheering their team until they equalise I looked at their previous two games and the fans were the same - and they managed a draw against Derby, against the odds Fan power eh - Worth a try? Would that be the same fan power that gave our lads a standing ovation after relegation was confirmed last season after the Palace home game? The same reception that Joe Allen later sheepishly admitted was excellent and undeserved given the sheer crap we had to endure watching?
|
|
|
Post by carlisleexile on Feb 17, 2019 12:53:00 GMT
we've dropped 12 pointsin matches where we were winning, reading away and yesterday the worst examples with added time equalisers. We are incapable of seeing a game out or of finishing teams off.Instead we always sit back and "scream come and score if you can/dare". Will we never learn.How thick are the players ffs? Are they incapable of thinking for themselves when running or strolling around like headless chickens. The manager cannot kick the ball for them, but I get the feeling some of them probably wish he would.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 17, 2019 12:53:31 GMT
I wonder if we had Ipswich's fans,would we actually play better? There they are, rock bottom of the league with our cast off manager, fall behind to our fluke goal but carry of cheering their team until they equalise I looked at their previous two games and the fans were the same - and they managed a draw against Derby, against the odds Fan power eh - Worth a try? It’s the mirthless laugh of the damned though isn’t it? What choice do they have? They’ve been through the bit where we are now and reacted much the same way - ask Mick McCarthy.
|
|
|
Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Feb 17, 2019 13:06:00 GMT
I wonder if we had Ipswich's fans,would we actually play better? There they are, rock bottom of the league with our cast off manager, fall behind to our fluke goal but carry of cheering their team until they equalise I looked at their previous two games and the fans were the same - and they managed a draw against Derby, against the odds Fan power eh - Worth a try? Watching the game on tele yesterday all I could hear was the stoke fans backing their team
|
|
|
Post by iancransonsknees on Feb 17, 2019 13:12:35 GMT
The worst case scenario would be sacking Rowett and appointing Jones turned out to be like sacking Chic Bates and appointing Chris Kamara. That won't happen. I'm instead going for the best case scenario, wherein we get to the end of the season on whatever points possible and Jones gets to do a full clearout in the summer, while making good his promise to buy the right sort of players and leading us to promotion with a records point tally. I'll say that this stinks of the Kamara episode. Don't forget that he had a half decent managerial record at Bradford before it was evicerated at Stoke. At the moment all I can see is this going the same way. Attitude of the players is exactly the same as it was then,they just get paid an inordinate amount more now to be equally shit.
|
|
|
Post by TheWiseMaster on Feb 17, 2019 13:13:22 GMT
I wonder if we had Ipswich's fans,would we actually play better? There they are, rock bottom of the league with our cast off manager, fall behind to our fluke goal but carry of cheering their team until they equalise I looked at their previous two games and the fans were the same - and they managed a draw against Derby, against the odds Fan power eh - Worth a try? It’s the mirthless laugh of the damned though isn’t it? What choice do they have? They’ve been through the bit where we are now and reacted much the same way - ask Mick McCarthy. Indeed - we talk about the club being toxic but we are of course a large part of that? The extra high expectations at the start of the season meant that anything less than promotion form was damned Is this the Sunderland syndrome? ................................................................................................................................................... BTW - looked at the Ipswich goal and the corner kick was fell central to our goal - the players turned to Butland waiting for his punch? - which never came
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 17, 2019 13:19:52 GMT
The worst case scenario would be sacking Rowett and appointing Jones turned out to be like sacking Chic Bates and appointing Chris Kamara. That won't happen. I'm instead going for the best case scenario, wherein we get to the end of the season on whatever points possible and Jones gets to do a full clearout in the summer, while making good his promise to buy the right sort of players and leading us to promotion with a records point tally. I'll say that this stinks of the Kamara episode. Don't forget that he had a half decent managerial record at Bradford before it was evicerated at Stoke. At the moment all I can see is this going the same way. Attitude of the players is exactly the same as it was then,they just get paid an inordinate amount more now to be equally shit. Two big differences are that Jones was allowed to bring in his own backroom team and he’ll be much better backed. I think he has a lot more about him as well. I don’t see things going that way.
|
|
|
Post by TheWiseMaster on Feb 17, 2019 13:22:22 GMT
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 17, 2019 13:23:42 GMT
It’s the mirthless laugh of the damned though isn’t it? What choice do they have? They’ve been through the bit where we are now and reacted much the same way - ask Mick McCarthy. Indeed - we talk about the club being toxic but we are of course a large part of that? The extra high expectations at the start of the season meant that anything less than promotion form was damned Is this the Sunderland syndrome? ................................................................................................................................................... BTW - looked at the Ipswich goal and the corner kick was fell central to our goal - the players turned to Butland waiting for his punch? - which never came I don’t think the expectations were unreasonable given that we retained a squad of ‘names’ and had the biggest budget in the league. Also, it’s not as if we’ve been unlucky - our performances to date have us precisely where we deserve to be. We have a bunch of spineless, shirking cowards on the books that we need shut of. Support throughout our relegation and at the start of the season was better than the players deserved. That said, I agree that patience with the manager and appreciation of the context in which he was appointed would be helpful, and blanket booing of backwards passes and chanting of stuff like “442” is completely unhelpful and counterproductive.
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 17, 2019 13:33:21 GMT
I have to be honest, i was fuming after that equaliser went in this afternoon. It just seems that no matter what the situation, we find a way of fucking it up. Coasting 1-0 against the worst side in the division and the manager decides he's going to throw on the quite frankly fucking useless Benik Afobe to play on the wing, then compounds the error by chucking Ryan on at the back, thus creating chaos out of what was previously a comfortable and organised defensive performance. It pains me to say it, but we look incapable of winning any game of football against any team in Britain at the moment. Even The Vale would probably beat us- that's how bad the situation's become. How much worse could it get though? Despite this afternoon's clusterfuck of a managerial performance, it's too early to judge Nathan Jones yet: he's inherited the biggest mess I think any Stoke manager has found himself landed with. However, I can't see how anybody could turn this around- we have a squad of expensive, high earning tosspots on long contracts who no-one in their right mind would want to buy. If this squad were in League One, I'm not sure they'd even finish in the top half, that's how utterly fucking awful they are. How is anyone supposed to sort that out? The whole atmosphere around the club stinks: it's a self-perpetuating culture of failure and antagonism. Fans turn up for matches expecting the worst, so that's what we end up getting. The first mistake players make we turn on them and as a result they go from bad to worse. However, the only reason we are so hostile is because those tosspots on the pitch continually let us down in the past and continue to do so now. It's a spiral of negativity that no one seems able to escape from. We won't go down this season, but next...I'm worried already. The financial situation's not going to get any better and the club must already be haemorrhaging money through its wage bill. Could we do a Sunderland next year? Could it get even worse than that? I'm genuinely worried that it could...and I really don't know what the answer is. Nobody can profess to have an actual answer because it really is a melting pot of toxicity. But my theory is that we've tried changing the managers and playing staff and it hasn't worked and we continue to decline. Time for some of the board to start paying with their jobs. First in line is the technical director and CEO. What have we got to lose?
|
|
|
Post by spikey2972 on Feb 18, 2019 0:25:55 GMT
As I keep saying ,but this is just my opinion I think Jones is out of his depth,I have listened to him on radio stoke after matches and I am sure he has watched an entirely different game to everybody else. How long will it be before we win our next game,even teams in the bottom half of the division we struggle against. I don't think he has played the same team 2 games on the trot,chopping and changing every match,I mean we beat Leeds when they were top of the league and then the week after he changed the team,formation and tactics. To me that is just naive and is treading water.
|
|
|
Post by Goonie on Feb 18, 2019 9:19:49 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Rt Hon Reverend Luvpump on Feb 18, 2019 9:27:11 GMT
It’s the mirthless laugh of the damned though isn’t it? What choice do they have? They’ve been through the bit where we are now and reacted much the same way - ask Mick McCarthy. Indeed - we talk about the club being toxic but we are of course a large part of that? The extra high expectations at the start of the season meant that anything less than promotion form was damned Is this the Sunderland syndrome? ................................................................................................................................................... BTW - looked at the Ipswich goal and the corner kick was fell central to our goal - the players turned to Butland waiting for his punch? - which never came I’ve said quite a few times in the last 2 seasons butland was at fault and after last week I said he should be dropped.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Feb 18, 2019 9:35:38 GMT
We'll slip to 18th tomorrow night if QPR get a point at home to WBA.
I don't think we can sink any lower than that.
I myself could manage this squad of players to top half and perhaps the play-offs.
It's just poor team selections, poor motivational skills, poor substitutions and an overall dismal reaction from many of the players.
|
|
|
Post by bigvern on Feb 18, 2019 9:43:42 GMT
We'll slip to 18th tomorrow night if QPR get a point at home to WBA. I don't think we can sink any lower than that. I myself could manage this squad of players to top half and perhaps the play-offs. It's just poor team selections, poor motivational skills, poor substitutions and an overall dismal reaction from many of the players. QPR will need to win to leapfrog us.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 9:46:05 GMT
We'll slip to 18th tomorrow night if QPR get a point at home to WBA. I don't think we can sink any lower than that. I myself could manage this squad of players to top half and perhaps the play-offs. It's just poor team selections, poor motivational skills, poor substitutions and an overall dismal reaction from many of the players. QPR will need to win to leapfrog us. QPR are two games behind us. And only 1 point behind so even if they don't win tomorrow there's a fair chance we will be leapfrogged
|
|
|
Post by bigvern on Feb 18, 2019 9:52:33 GMT
QPR will need to win to leapfrog us. QPR are two games behind us. And only 1 point behind so even if they don't win tomorrow there's a fair chance we will be leapfrogged But not with a draw tomorrow though.
|
|
|
Post by str8outtahampton on Feb 18, 2019 10:08:35 GMT
We'll slip to 18th tomorrow night if QPR get a point at home to WBA. I don't think we can sink any lower than that. I myself could manage this squad of players to top half and perhaps the play-offs. It's just poor team selections, poor motivational skills, poor substitutions and an overall dismal reaction from many of the players. I've never met you, but do you know what? I genuinely think you would do no worse. If and when you do take over, can I volunteer to take penalties? Even now, with my old git's rail pass I think I would score at least as many as our shower of you-know-what on the last dozen occasions. As for saving them, it would not quite be statistically impossible to do worse. But as near as makes no difference. So jaw-droppingly, mind-bogglingly staggering that you could be forgiven for looking towards betting patterns across the other side of the world.
|
|