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Post by werrington on Feb 7, 2019 11:52:48 GMT
Desperately sad subject but there is a legal contract of sale and Cardiff are not abiding by it. He's their player. They SHOULD have insurance. It's not fair to Nantes OR his previous club who are both counting on the money Cardiff are legally obliged to pay. Nothing to do with "modern football" Is their a legal contract? Are Cardiff not abiding by it? Should Cardiff have insurance? Are Cardiff legally obliged to pay anything? Just a few questions I'd ask myself before posting something as fact He signed his contract two days previously on the Friday He only went back to France to say his goodbyes as Cardiff wanted him to travel to Newcastle with the squad on the Saturday
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Feb 7, 2019 12:11:34 GMT
Desperately sad subject but there is a legal contract of sale and Cardiff are not abiding by it. He's their player. They SHOULD have insurance. It's not fair to Nantes OR his previous club who are both counting on the money Cardiff are legally obliged to pay. Nothing to do with "modern football" Is their a legal contract? Are Cardiff not abiding by it? Should Cardiff have insurance? Are Cardiff legally obliged to pay anything? Just a few questions I'd ask myself before posting something as fact The press have reported that there is a legal contract - and that the date of the first installment has not been met by Cardiff. On that basis Cardiff are legally obliged to pay the installments on the dates they are due. Whether Cardiff have or have not got insurance, how much money is the sum insured, and what the conditions are, is totally irrelevant. If they haven't got sufficient insurance that is Cardiff's problem, not Nantes' problem.
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Post by adi on Feb 7, 2019 12:38:38 GMT
Cardiff can afford to pay it and bloody well should. Im in no doubt that they sanctioned/organised the flight, so they cant even blame Nantes for a dodgy aircraft (although i dont think that it was the airframe, but rather the weather). Rather than drag this through the mud Cardiff should cough up end of story.
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Post by werrington on Feb 7, 2019 13:21:01 GMT
Cardiff can afford to pay it and bloody well should. Im in no doubt that they sanctioned/organised the flight, so they cant even blame Nantes for a dodgy aircraft (although i dont think that it was the airframe, but rather the weather). Rather than drag this through the mud Cardiff should cough up end of story. Salas agent sorted the aircraft after he refused Cardiff’s offer to get one
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Post by shangamuzo on Feb 7, 2019 13:51:36 GMT
Poor soul virtually predicted his own fate: The plane is unstable or words to that effect.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Feb 7, 2019 14:05:11 GMT
Read somewhere that Nantes have to pay Bordeaux 50% of any sell on fee as well. So Nantes could be getting pressure from Bordeaux in this respect. Cardiff should pay first instalment and deal with their insurers after.
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Post by Clem Fandango on Feb 7, 2019 14:12:28 GMT
Without being too disrespectful isn't it the same thing as if I bought a car on finance from say Audi then crashed it. I couldn't stop paying Audi for it because it was written off. I'd have to recoup from the insurance.
As Mr Mackay said its a shame this is being aired in public.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Feb 7, 2019 14:18:27 GMT
Cardiff can afford to pay it and bloody well should. Im in no doubt that they sanctioned/organised the flight, so they cant even blame Nantes for a dodgy aircraft (although i dont think that it was the airframe, but rather the weather). Rather than drag this through the mud Cardiff should cough up end of story. Salas agent sorted the aircraft after he refused Cardiff’s offer to get one It is easy to say with hindsight, but it is a bit odd that Cardiff didn't insist on him flying on a flight booked and approved by them. Employers often put clauses in high earning sports contracts that the employee can't do various things without specific approval. Many highly paid sports men and women, for example, are barred from taking part in activities such as skiing or high altitude mountaineering during their professional careers. If I was the Chief Exec of a Premier League football club, I'm pretty sure I would want to be responsible for authorising any flights the player took - other than commercial flights when going on family holidays. I wonder how many clubs will be reviewing their policies on this sort of thing in the light of this tragic incident?
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Post by werrington on Feb 7, 2019 14:47:16 GMT
Salas agent sorted the aircraft after he refused Cardiff’s offer to get one It is easy to say with hindsight, but it is a bit odd that Cardiff didn't insist on him flying on a flight booked and approved by them. Employers often put clauses in high earning sports contracts that the employee can't do various things without specific approval. Many highly paid sports men and women, for example, are barred from taking part in activities such as skiing or high altitude mountaineering during their professional careers. If I was the Chief Exec of a Premier League football club, I'm pretty sure I would want to be responsible for authorising any flights the player took - other than commercial flights when going on family holidays. I wonder how many clubs will be reviewing their policies on this sort of thing in the light of this tragic incident? Yeah mate I found it strange also....Your other point is a good one as remember Kevin keegan coming off his bike whilst at the peak of his career on superstars? To be fair to Cardiff you wouldn’t imagine this happening whoever sorced the flight
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 17:56:50 GMT
Is their a legal contract? Are Cardiff not abiding by it? Should Cardiff have insurance? Are Cardiff legally obliged to pay anything? Just a few questions I'd ask myself before posting something as fact The press have reported that there is a legal contract - and that the date of the first installment has not been met by Cardiff. On that basis Cardiff are legally obliged to pay the installments on the dates they are due. Whether Cardiff have or have not got insurance, how much money is the sum insured, and what the conditions are, is totally irrelevant. If they haven't got sufficient insurance that is Cardiff's problem, not Nantes' problem. Aaaaah the press have reported it....ill be quiet then 🙄
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Feb 7, 2019 18:13:30 GMT
The press have reported that there is a legal contract - and that the date of the first installment has not been met by Cardiff. On that basis Cardiff are legally obliged to pay the installments on the dates they are due. Whether Cardiff have or have not got insurance, how much money is the sum insured, and what the conditions are, is totally irrelevant. If they haven't got sufficient insurance that is Cardiff's problem, not Nantes' problem. Aaaaah the press have reported it....ill be quiet then 🙄 Well Cardiff themselves have said it and that they will pay but not until they have "all the facts". Hppe that clears it up for you...unless of course you think that one of those facts they have to find out, is whether or not they actually signed him in the first place and they've somehow forgotten if they did or not?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 18:18:43 GMT
The press have reported that there is a legal contract - and that the date of the first installment has not been met by Cardiff. On that basis Cardiff are legally obliged to pay the installments on the dates they are due. Whether Cardiff have or have not got insurance, how much money is the sum insured, and what the conditions are, is totally irrelevant. If they haven't got sufficient insurance that is Cardiff's problem, not Nantes' problem. Aaaaah the press have reported it....ill be quiet then 🙄 You dont get a 14 day cool off period or a refund policy when you buy a football player 🙈 of course they are legally obliged once they’d signed him!
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Feb 7, 2019 18:54:23 GMT
The press have reported that there is a legal contract - and that the date of the first installment has not been met by Cardiff. On that basis Cardiff are legally obliged to pay the installments on the dates they are due. Whether Cardiff have or have not got insurance, how much money is the sum insured, and what the conditions are, is totally irrelevant. If they haven't got sufficient insurance that is Cardiff's problem, not Nantes' problem. Aaaaah the press have reported it....ill be quiet then 🙄 Short of you having a good source within the Cardiff club finance staff, you are, like the rest of us, pretty much dependent upon what the press and broadcast media report about the contract. Unless, of course, you are like a few on here who swear by their mate's brother's cousin's wife who heard it from her hairdresser! If so, good luck, you are on your own - I wouldn't dare to advise you.
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Post by santy on Feb 7, 2019 19:19:02 GMT
Cardiff have put the brakes on because the insurance issues need to be sorted first it seems. Irrespective of right or wrong this is something likely to end up in the courts (whether its Nantes vs Cardiff, or Cardiff vs Insurers) because its so far out there that there won't be anything legally tested to say what should happen. I'd not make particular judgements either way, because an awful lot of things are going to happen that have to legally happen to make sure that the ultimate right conclusion is reached. If Nantes don't ask for the money, and don't follow the procedure then Cardiff's insurers could potentially wriggle out of it. If Cardiff just pay up and don't stall until their Insurers have investigated the issue, then their Insurers could say well you decided to pay out - that's your problem not ours. It's going to come across at times as probably very nasty, when the reality is just the legal systems and frameworks aren't built with cases like this in mind so given context it sounds a lot worse. He he hadn’t died Cardiff would owe the money and it would have nothing to do with insurers. The insurers are only involved because a Cardiff player has died. I don’t see what it has to do with Nantes and what right Cardiff have to stall because of the insurers. Cardiff owing Nantes money for a player they bought is completely separate to Cardiff’s battle with their insurers. Because you can't envisage it being that way, doesn't mean that there isn't pretty sound legal advice being given. In all instances of insurance, you can't simply pay money out and be guaranteed the insurers will cover it no matter what. The reality is that should it be something the insurers will pick up, they will want to negotiate their own terms with Nantes possibly even cutting Cardiff out of the process. As I said, you have to strip out the emotive element. The reality is this is an area it seems to be without legal precedent, and so, agreements will have to be reached or it will have to go to court so that should something this unfortunate happen again - there is a framework in place. One thing, and perhaps more importantly than money being paid between two football clubs is the potential factors such as moneys owed to Sala's family. Let's say for example, the insurance company who are looking into whether or not they're paying the transfer fee or Cardiff is. What if, there's an extremely strong argument that they should be paying out XYZ to the family of Sala, but if Cardiff pay the transfer fees out before they conclude they are able to wash their hands of it. Cardiff aren't necessarily liable for those payments to the family of Sala as well. Perhaps they are, perhaps it could be argued in court its a separate matter entirely but what if it isn't? What if because Cardiff make the payment to Nantes it ends up that the ones who really suffer are those left behind on an individual level?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Feb 7, 2019 22:45:13 GMT
BBC have announced at 10:40 pm that the coroner has confirmed that body recovered from the plane is that of Sala. RIP.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 7, 2019 22:47:52 GMT
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Feb 7, 2019 22:55:29 GMT
I must admit I’m surprised that it was Sala that was in the wreckage.
I was expecting it to be the pilot, the logic being that if I was Sala in that situation, I’d use my fitness to swim like a madman in any direction with the hope of finding dry land.
Absolutely sickening, and so, so avoidable.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 23:04:18 GMT
Terrible tragedy
R.I.P. to both Sala and Mr Ibbotson.
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Post by Gifton on Feb 7, 2019 23:12:17 GMT
I must admit I’m surprised that it was Sala that was in the wreckage. I was expecting it to be the pilot, the logic being that if I was Sala in that situation, I’d use my fitness to swim like a madman in any direction with the hope of finding dry land. Absolutely sickening, and so, so avoidable. He almost certainly didn't have that opportunity. RIP terribly sad.
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tricky
Spectator
long time coming..
Posts: 22
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Post by tricky on Feb 7, 2019 23:26:47 GMT
Be nice if the Premier League picked up the bill. Rather that than Scudamores golden handshake
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Post by shakermaker on Feb 7, 2019 23:47:03 GMT
I must admit I’m surprised that it was Sala that was in the wreckage. I was expecting it to be the pilot, the logic being that if I was Sala in that situation, I’d use my fitness to swim like a madman in any direction with the hope of finding dry land. Absolutely sickening, and so, so avoidable. The plane was mostly intact when it was found, so I don't think he died on impact. I shudder thinking of his final, desperate moments of panic and terror. Sickening doesn't come close to describing it. RIP Emiliano and Mr Ibbotson.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Feb 8, 2019 9:56:38 GMT
When I saw the Subject, I thought this would be about a benefit match for charity!
I read from a good source (the Guardian, I think) that a third of the fee has already been paid, and that Cardiff are insured for player losses* of up to £16m.
*I hate that word in this context.
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Feb 8, 2019 10:33:40 GMT
This is a positive development really. The family will get a funeral and closure and the process of sorting out the money will be made easier now his fate has been legally declared and the uncertainty has been removed.
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Post by Northy on Feb 8, 2019 10:54:48 GMT
I must admit I’m surprised that it was Sala that was in the wreckage. I was expecting it to be the pilot, the logic being that if I was Sala in that situation, I’d use my fitness to swim like a madman in any direction with the hope of finding dry land. Absolutely sickening, and so, so avoidable. That's what I thought, I wonder what's happened to the pilot's body, did he manage to get out and is now lost to the sea, you would assume so. A sad episode all round, RIP to themm both.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 16:00:41 GMT
Aaaaah the press have reported it....ill be quiet then 🙄 Short of you having a good source within the Cardiff club finance staff, you are, like the rest of us, pretty much dependent upon what the press and broadcast media report about the contract. Unless, of course, you are like a few on here who swear by their mate's brother's cousin's wife who heard it from her hairdresser! If so, good luck, you are on your own - I wouldn't dare to advise you. I think that's my point. I'm not. Nor is anyone else. Which is why I wouldn't quote something as fact when the information comes from the press.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Feb 8, 2019 16:29:08 GMT
Short of you having a good source within the Cardiff club finance staff, you are, like the rest of us, pretty much dependent upon what the press and broadcast media report about the contract. Unless, of course, you are like a few on here who swear by their mate's brother's cousin's wife who heard it from her hairdresser! If so, good luck, you are on your own - I wouldn't dare to advise you. I think that's my point. I'm not. Nor is anyone else. Which is why I wouldn't quote something as fact when the information comes from the press. If you include the broadcast media as being unreliable along with the press then I don't see why you bothered with this thread - I assume you will have doubts as to whether there was a plane crash involving Cardiff's new player - or even whether Cardiff recently signed a player from Nantes at all. It must be tricky having to check all your facts by speaking to those personally involved.
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Post by liam007 on Feb 8, 2019 16:52:00 GMT
I must admit I’m surprised that it was Sala that was in the wreckage. I was expecting it to be the pilot, the logic being that if I was Sala in that situation, I’d use my fitness to swim like a madman in any direction with the hope of finding dry land. Absolutely sickening, and so, so avoidable. The plane was mostly intact when it was found, so I don't think he died on impact. I shudder thinking of his final, desperate moments of panic and terror. Sickening doesn't come close to describing it. RIP Emiliano and Mr Ibbotson. My biggest fear in life as a child when learning to swim was the fear of being under water and not being able to breath,still makes me shudder now.It's now climbing heights that bother me.I really hope he didn't suffer for too long,the thought of it fills me with dread.RIP young man.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 17:52:08 GMT
Be nice if the Premier League picked up the bill. Rather that than Scudamores golden handshake I think that would be dreadful.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Feb 8, 2019 18:57:07 GMT
Be nice if the Premier League picked up the bill. Rather that than Scudamores golden handshake I think that would be dreadful. I agree - a bizarre suggestion.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 19:03:44 GMT
I think that would be dreadful. I agree - a bizarre suggestion. No-one should pay except Cardiff. They bought the player. They should have insurance. If their insurance won’t pay because the poor lad was on tinpot plane in a fucking blizzard then regardless of who booked it they should have insisted he fly safely and accordance with the insurance. It’s entirely their problem. It’s all good with their forever a bluebird stuff but behind the scenes, if all this is true, they are just thinking about cash. It’s disgusting. They signed him. They owe Nantes the money. Get it paid and they can do their insurance wranglings behind closed doors.
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