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Post by TheWiseMaster on Feb 4, 2019 22:54:36 GMT
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Feb 4, 2019 22:55:39 GMT
Doesn't say much for recent recruitment?
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Feb 4, 2019 23:02:29 GMT
Be unwise to settle on a plan until we know why leave we are playing in .
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 4, 2019 23:06:54 GMT
Be unwise to settle on a plan until we know why leave we are playing in . It'll be the championship, I think promotion has got away from us now, I assume you meant promotion, you're not stupid enough to be thinking of relegation are you......  |
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Post by dingdongbell on Feb 4, 2019 23:12:19 GMT
Well we are in relegation form are we not ?, Do you trust these players ? I certainly don’t ! and if you do what gives you grounds for it ?
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Post by s8to on Feb 4, 2019 23:14:56 GMT
Press office getting a piece in early.. don’t you know season tickets will be on sale soon.. selling futures here! #pravda
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Post by spikey2972 on Feb 4, 2019 23:26:46 GMT
Some of the players I have seen at stoke over the years would run through a brick wall for them.there was passion,pride and a determination to do well .what I have seen of the majority of the players we have now is an attitude of I don't really care how we play or if we lose or win.they are on mega money and should be ashamed of how they perform in front of loyal supporters.
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Post by spiderpuss on Feb 5, 2019 0:53:16 GMT
Well we are in relegation form are we not ?, Do you trust these players ? I certainly don’t ! and if you do what gives you grounds for it ? Well they might do ok. in league 1. |
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Post by tony1234 on Feb 5, 2019 1:57:24 GMT
In 2 minds about this:
1. Yes, we know NJ. Thanks.
2. As we know we are planning for next year now, why were the decisions this past window so relatively conservative. Wouldn't you have a) shipped out pretty much everyone you could that was not part of your plan (Maclean? Bojan? Shawx?).. or v. likely to leave in summer (Butland, Allen), b) ... and then taken players on loan where possible to test their worthiness for being perm acquisitions summer; or got your 4 key targets in to give your team 1/2 season to gel, and steal a march? (aka Mings-esque sorts; get the LWB/LB in place; pay for McKenna if he is "the one" he has earmarked - Aberdeen would have accepted 8 +% of next sale and Souttar say, wouldn't they?)
This season is gone for promotion, but couldn't we have got to 80% of next season's likely team, rather than 50% and faced with the prospect of having a major summer rebuild and 10 games to gel at the start of next season?
As I say, am in two minds....
Guess it makes summer interesting.
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Feb 5, 2019 6:47:01 GMT
In 2 minds about this: 1. Yes, we know NJ. Thanks. 2. As we know we are planning for next year now, why were the decisions this past window so relatively conservative. Wouldn't you have a) shipped out pretty much everyone you could that was not part of your plan (Maclean? Bojan? Shawx?).. or v. likely to leave in summer (Butland, Allen), b) ... and then taken players on loan where possible to test their worthiness for being perm acquisitions summer; or got your 4 key targets in to give your team 1/2 season to gel, and steal a march? (aka Mings-esque sorts; get the LWB/LB in place; pay for McKenna if he is "the one" he has earmarked - Aberdeen would have accepted 8 +% of next sale and Souttar say, wouldn't they?) This season is gone for promotion, but couldn't we have got to 80% of next season's likely team, rather than 50% and faced with the prospect of having a major summer rebuild and 10 games to gel at the start of next season? As I say, am in two minds.... Guess it makes summer interesting. It's not as simple as just shipping everyone out. Someone's got to want them and they've got to want the move too. |
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Post by andystokey on Feb 5, 2019 6:56:25 GMT
There is an adjacent article where he talks about players not being good enough (no names).
I'm happy he's put everyone on warning this is not an acceptable team for the Championship or his style of play.
This can only be a good thing, if he can couple this with a late run of wins and performances we can maybe attract the players he needs with a top 10 finish.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 7:08:26 GMT
In 2 minds about this: 1. Yes, we know NJ. Thanks. 2. As we know we are planning for next year now, why were the decisions this past window so relatively conservative. Wouldn't you have a) shipped out pretty much everyone you could that was not part of your plan (Maclean? Bojan? Shawx?).. or v. likely to leave in summer (Butland, Allen), b) ... and then taken players on loan where possible to test their worthiness for being perm acquisitions summer; or got your 4 key targets in to give your team 1/2 season to gel, and steal a march? (aka Mings-esque sorts; get the LWB/LB in place; pay for McKenna if he is "the one" he has earmarked - Aberdeen would have accepted 8 +% of next sale and Souttar say, wouldn't they?) This season is gone for promotion, but couldn't we have got to 80% of next season's likely team, rather than 50% and faced with the prospect of having a major summer rebuild and 10 games to gel at the start of next season? As I say, am in two minds.... Guess it makes summer interesting. It's not as simple as just shipping everyone out. Someone's got to want them and they've got to want the move too. And the January window is not the time to do it. |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Feb 5, 2019 7:15:59 GMT
In 2 minds about this: 1. Yes, we know NJ. Thanks. 2. As we know we are planning for next year now, why were the decisions this past window so relatively conservative. Wouldn't you have a) shipped out pretty much everyone you could that was not part of your plan (Maclean? Bojan? Shawx?).. or v. likely to leave in summer (Butland, Allen), b) ... and then taken players on loan where possible to test their worthiness for being perm acquisitions summer; or got your 4 key targets in to give your team 1/2 season to gel, and steal a march? (aka Mings-esque sorts; get the LWB/LB in place; pay for McKenna if he is "the one" he has earmarked - Aberdeen would have accepted 8 +% of next sale and Souttar say, wouldn't they?) This season is gone for promotion, but couldn't we have got to 80% of next season's likely team, rather than 50% and faced with the prospect of having a major summer rebuild and 10 games to gel at the start of next season? As I say, am in two minds.... Guess it makes summer interesting. It's not as simple as just shipping everyone out. Someone's got to want them and they've got to want the move too. 100%. In addition getting the right players in who want to come and without getting ripped off takes time. |
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Post by wuzza on Feb 5, 2019 7:59:22 GMT
Sadly you can already see next seasons mantra - ‘it will take time for so many new players to settle in’ .......promotion push the season after.
Settle in guys its going to be a long journey again.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Feb 5, 2019 7:59:34 GMT
In 2 minds about this: 1. Yes, we know NJ. Thanks. 2. As we know we are planning for next year now, why were the decisions this past window so relatively conservative. Wouldn't you have a) shipped out pretty much everyone you could that was not part of your plan (Maclean? Bojan? Shawx?).. or v. likely to leave in summer (Butland, Allen), b) ... and then taken players on loan where possible to test their worthiness for being perm acquisitions summer; or got your 4 key targets in to give your team 1/2 season to gel, and steal a march? (aka Mings-esque sorts; get the LWB/LB in place; pay for McKenna if he is "the one" he has earmarked - Aberdeen would have accepted 8 +% of next sale and Souttar say, wouldn't they?) This season is gone for promotion, but couldn't we have got to 80% of next season's likely team, rather than 50% and faced with the prospect of having a major summer rebuild and 10 games to gel at the start of next season? As I say, am in two minds.... Guess it makes summer interesting. It's not as simple as just shipping everyone out. Someone's got to want them and they've got to want the move too. Spot on. I'm pretty sure that, in practical terms, our major problem at the moment is the difficulty of shipping out players who have not lived up to expectations. It is easy to find someone to take your best players such as Arnie or Shaq and we could easily have moved on Allen had we wanted to do so. It is also fairly easy to move on younger players who are not on a big wage - there is always a lower league club willing to take a punt. Sometimes they go on to have decent careers after they leave - Keogh and Moult are examples. But the underperforming players on high wages have always been the problem - and boy have we signed a bundle of them in recent years. Imbula, Wimmer, Berahino etc. etc. - there are too many of them and until they are off the books - one way or another - they will remain a huge drain on our wage budget and our transfer budget. I don't know how Hughes went from the bloke who took us to 3 ninth place finishes and a League Cup semi final. to a man who completely lost all sense of reality in the transfer market - but somewhere, somehow, it all went wrong and he has left us with a horrible legacy as a club. Jones deserves every sympathy because, until that legacy is ended, he will struggle to build the side he wants at the speed he wants. Financial Fair Play has a reputation for being not very watertight - but, given the number of high waged, under performing players we have, simply paying up their contracts to get rid of them would land us with sanctions and probably a transfer ban.  |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 5, 2019 8:24:03 GMT
Doesn't say much for recent recruitment? The only recent recruitment that is relevant to the way Jones wants us to play is this January window. Every other player in the squad was brought in with a different game plan in mind. One or two might make the transition but the chances are most won't. In some cases it's because they don't want to be here (Imbula, Ndiaye), others aren't good enough (Tymon, Souttar), some are past it (Shawcross, Fletcher), some will be eyeing the Premiership (Allen, Butland) and some - despite being decent footballers - don't seem to fit into Jones's system (Ince, Woods). Given where we are now recent recruitment is irrelevant. It's the summer rebuild that matters. |
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Post by xchpotter on Feb 5, 2019 8:31:35 GMT
Sadly you can already see next seasons mantra - ‘it will take time for so many new players to settle in’ .......promotion push the season after. Settle in guys its going to be a long journey again. I already think the same. The shit running through the club and team is too engrained to do anything good soon. The test will be the 2020-2021 season....sounds scarily pessimistic, but I really do think that is the reality. |
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 5, 2019 8:56:40 GMT
In 2 minds about this: 1. Yes, we know NJ. Thanks. 2. As we know we are planning for next year now, why were the decisions this past window so relatively conservative. Wouldn't you have a) shipped out pretty much everyone you could that was not part of your plan (Maclean? Bojan? Shawx?).. or v. likely to leave in summer (Butland, Allen), b) ... and then taken players on loan where possible to test their worthiness for being perm acquisitions summer; or got your 4 key targets in to give your team 1/2 season to gel, and steal a march? (aka Mings-esque sorts; get the LWB/LB in place; pay for McKenna if he is "the one" he has earmarked - Aberdeen would have accepted 8 +% of next sale and Souttar say, wouldn't they?) This season is gone for promotion, but couldn't we have got to 80% of next season's likely team, rather than 50% and faced with the prospect of having a major summer rebuild and 10 games to gel at the start of next season? As I say, am in two minds.... Guess it makes summer interesting. Tony We can’t ship anyone out unless there is a taker or we pay contracts up. It’s easy if contracts are only running until June, players like Berahino have got almost 3 years left (I think) |
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 5, 2019 9:00:31 GMT
Lakeland
”IF” Hughes had the first and final say on recruitment he had previous at QPR, which surely should have been a red flag for Mr Scholes
Quanity over Quality, massive error by whoever was responsible for recruitment
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 5, 2019 9:16:14 GMT
It’s not really quantity over quality that’s been the problem though is it?
The problem has been when managers have been given a fair wedge to spend they’ve spunked it royally up the wall. Hughes’ hit rate was far better when he had a smaller budget in his first couple of seasons. Rowett was given the biggest budget in the league.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Feb 5, 2019 9:23:15 GMT
Well we are in relegation form are we not ?, Do you trust these players ? I certainly don’t ! and if you do what gives you grounds for it ? Well they might do ok. in league 1. I wouldn't bet on it,not with this bunch of losers we have playing for us. |
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Post by reddipotter on Feb 5, 2019 9:30:10 GMT
It's not as simple as just shipping everyone out. Someone's got to want them and they've got to want the move too. Spot on. I'm pretty sure that, in practical terms, our major problem at the moment is the difficulty of shipping out players who have not lived up to expectations. It is easy to find someone to take your best players such as Arnie or Shaq and we could easily have moved on Allen had we wanted to do so. It is also fairly easy to move on younger players who are not on a big wage - there is always a lower league club willing to take a punt. Sometimes they go on to have decent careers after they leave - Keogh and Moult are examples. But the underperforming players on high wages have always been the problem - and boy have we signed a bundle of them in recent years. Imbula, Wimmer, Berahino etc. etc. - there are too many of them and until they are off the books - one way or another - they will remain a huge drain on our wage budget and our transfer budget. I don't know how Hughes went from the bloke who took us to 3 ninth place finishes and a League Cup semi final. to a man who completely lost all sense of reality in the transfer market - but somewhere, somehow, it all went wrong and he has left us with a horrible legacy as a club. Jones deserves every sympathy because, until that legacy is ended, he will struggle to build the side he wants at the speed he wants. Financial Fair Play has a reputation for being not very watertight - but, given the number of high waged, under performing players we have, simply paying up their contracts to get rid of them would land us with sanctions and probably a transfer ban. People still don't get this, do they? Hughes did not change. His scattergun approach to signings began from the start. He got away with it whilst he had the core of Pulis' solid premier league squad. Eventually, Hughes' lack of any clear plan caught up with him and the holiday camp atmosphere which he seemed to encourage finally destroyed everything that had been our strengths. It is because he had been allowed so long to take everything apart that it is taking so long to rebuild it. |
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Feb 5, 2019 9:54:37 GMT
Roll up, roll up - get your season tickets.  |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Feb 5, 2019 9:57:19 GMT
I like Jones but this is another example of his naivety , he might be thinking it but no need to say it , he needs 12 or 14 points from these players and threatening them publically seldom works , they will be booking their Dubai trips now as play offs are gone and candidly will be thinking who cares
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Post by stokiekm on Feb 5, 2019 10:00:37 GMT
In 2 minds about this: 1. Yes, we know NJ. Thanks. 2. As we know we are planning for next year now, why were the decisions this past window so relatively conservative. Wouldn't you have a) shipped out pretty much everyone you could that was not part of your plan (Maclean? Bojan? Shawx?).. or v. likely to leave in summer (Butland, Allen), b) ... and then taken players on loan where possible to test their worthiness for being perm acquisitions summer; or got your 4 key targets in to give your team 1/2 season to gel, and steal a march? (aka Mings-esque sorts; get the LWB/LB in place; pay for McKenna if he is "the one" he has earmarked - Aberdeen would have accepted 8 +% of next sale and Souttar say, wouldn't they?) This season is gone for promotion, but couldn't we have got to 80% of next season's likely team, rather than 50% and faced with the prospect of having a major summer rebuild and 10 games to gel at the start of next season? As I say, am in two minds.... Guess it makes summer interesting. It's not as simple as just shipping everyone out. Someone's got to want them and they've got to want the move too. it's amazing that some think the recruitment and moving players on process is as simple as saying 'we want you to sign' and 'thanks. See you later' |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 5, 2019 10:04:54 GMT
Spot on. I'm pretty sure that, in practical terms, our major problem at the moment is the difficulty of shipping out players who have not lived up to expectations. It is easy to find someone to take your best players such as Arnie or Shaq and we could easily have moved on Allen had we wanted to do so. It is also fairly easy to move on younger players who are not on a big wage - there is always a lower league club willing to take a punt. Sometimes they go on to have decent careers after they leave - Keogh and Moult are examples. But the underperforming players on high wages have always been the problem - and boy have we signed a bundle of them in recent years. Imbula, Wimmer, Berahino etc. etc. - there are too many of them and until they are off the books - one way or another - they will remain a huge drain on our wage budget and our transfer budget. I don't know how Hughes went from the bloke who took us to 3 ninth place finishes and a League Cup semi final. to a man who completely lost all sense of reality in the transfer market - but somewhere, somehow, it all went wrong and he has left us with a horrible legacy as a club. Jones deserves every sympathy because, until that legacy is ended, he will struggle to build the side he wants at the speed he wants. Financial Fair Play has a reputation for being not very watertight - but, given the number of high waged, under performing players we have, simply paying up their contracts to get rid of them would land us with sanctions and probably a transfer ban. People still don't get this, do they? Hughes did not change. His scattergun approach to signings began from the start. He got away with it whilst he had the core of Pulis' solid premier league squad. Eventually, Hughes' lack of any clear plan caught up with him and the holiday camp atmosphere which he seemed to encourage finally destroyed everything that had been our strengths. It is because he had been allowed so long to take everything apart that it is taking so long to rebuild it. They ‘don’t get it’ because it isn’t as simple as that. You act like Hughes inherited the keys to the kingdom and got lucky, in his early years he actually breathed new life into a dispirited squad on a downward spiral and took it to heights it hadn’t previously reached. It wasn’t ‘scattergun’ at first by any stretch. He wanted to play a counter attacking 4-2-3-1 and recognised the team needed proper full backs, some pace and some creativity, which he initially delivered. He absolutely did fail to replace the key components he inherited and lost sight of what had made his football work so well in the end, but it isn’t true to portray him as this blundering chancer who rode Pulis’ coattails as that really isn’t what happened. |
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Post by stokeson on Feb 5, 2019 10:11:49 GMT
Id like him to plan for some points this season.Green shoots.Genral play we control it. Ill have some of what hes on !!!!
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Post by RAF on Feb 5, 2019 10:15:16 GMT
Lakeland ”IF” Hughes had the first and final say on recruitment he had previous at QPR, which surely should have been a red flag for Mr Scholes Quanity over Quality, massive error by whoever was responsible for recruitment He didn't at QPR though. That basket case Tony Fernandez brought at least 3 players in over his head. H |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 5, 2019 10:20:35 GMT
People still don't get this, do they? Hughes did not change. His scattergun approach to signings began from the start. He got away with it whilst he had the core of Pulis' solid premier league squad. Eventually, Hughes' lack of any clear plan caught up with him and the holiday camp atmosphere which he seemed to encourage finally destroyed everything that had been our strengths. It is because he had been allowed so long to take everything apart that it is taking so long to rebuild it. They ‘don’t get it’ because it isn’t as simple as that. You act like Hughes inherited the keys to the kingdom and got lucky, in his early years he actually breathed new life into a dispirited squad on a downward spiral and took it to heights it hadn’t previously reached. It wasn’t ‘scattergun’ at first by any stretch. He wanted to play a counter attacking 4-2-3-1 and recognised the team needed proper full backs, some pace and some creativity, which he initially delivered. He absolutely did fail to replace the key components he inherited and lost sight of what had made his football work so well in the end, but it isn’t true to portray him as this blundering chancer who rode Pulis’ coattails as that really isn’t what happened. Blimey, Rob. I don't disagree with you but if we had a 'dispirited squad on a downward spiral' post Pulis what does that make this shower of shit we've been 'enjoying' these past 3 years?! |
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Post by berahinosgoals on Feb 5, 2019 10:21:59 GMT
4 managers we have had since pulis?, each of them would have seen stoke as a progression or another chance at their career.. maybe we do do something that certain established higher profile managers just won't put up with?
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