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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 7, 2018 13:00:45 GMT
Every top league in the world is dominated by a few teams. That’s just how it is. In some countries (eg Scotland) that's because there are only one or two major cities and they've always dominated. It hadn't used to be the case in countries like England - a team would dominate for a time but there was genuine flux. In the Premiership era money has taken over - and money begats money so the big hitters of the premier League era have hoovered up more than than their fair share to the point where they are pretty much untouchable. The point about a league is that everyone is supposed to be in the same "league" in a competitive sense. The Scottish League had never been a league in that sense and the premier League has turned into the same predictable type of non-competition. There are loads of reasons not to have a super League - but purely from a sporting perspective it now makes sense. The only other way of making the current league structures work in a sporting sense is to do something radical about the financing. Such as overthrow the international capital system.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 7, 2018 13:14:09 GMT
I thought the discussion was about enjoyment, not being ‘better off’. Financially off course we’re better off in it. I can’t say I relish a trip to get dicked at Manchester City more than a day on the ale at Brammal Lane though. Horses for courses but I just like football and a competitive game is more interesting to me than being an also-ran in a league that’s increasingly about six clubs and everyone relate tugging their forelock and saying “please sir, can I have another”. You were one of my 'normally sane' posters! I was referring to enjoyment rather than financial. I immensely enjoyed our 10 year tenure in the Prem and have I have enjoyed the last 6 months out of the spotlight far less. I honestly didn't realise you had such a downer on the Prem. I know it is getting more one-sided but it always has been to some degree in my time. Liverpool use to win everything when I first started watching, Everton for a short time, then Arsenal, then Manchester United for a long time, Chelsea for a short time and now Man City. Spurs have always been knocking on the door without coming in. The contenders haven't fundamentally changed in 50 years. It's been punctuated down the years by Leeds, Derby, Forest, Villa, Blackburn and most recently Leicester but they are and always will be the exception which proves the rule. The reason you dare to dream. Good post, I would only question 50 years, and say 1983-84* was the last season smaller clubs were regularly in contention for the top places, but this is masked by Liverpool's dominance during the previous decade. Funny how things strike each of us differently. When you said "punctuated....by Leeds" I thought, surely that can't be right, but of course it is. They were dominant from 1968 to 1974, apart from Stoke having the Indian sign on them. Since then they have only had one stand-out season 1991-92. * en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_football_champions
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Post by Gods on Dec 7, 2018 13:42:49 GMT
You were one of my 'normally sane' posters! I was referring to enjoyment rather than financial. I immensely enjoyed our 10 year tenure in the Prem and have I have enjoyed the last 6 months out of the spotlight far less. I honestly didn't realise you had such a downer on the Prem. I know it is getting more one-sided but it always has been to some degree in my time. Liverpool use to win everything when I first started watching, Everton for a short time, then Arsenal, then Manchester United for a long time, Chelsea for a short time and now Man City. Spurs have always been knocking on the door without coming in. The contenders haven't fundamentally changed in 50 years. It's been punctuated down the years by Leeds, Derby, Forest, Villa, Blackburn and most recently Leicester but they are and always will be the exception which proves the rule. The reason you dare to dream. During the early 90s, Leeds won the league a couple of years after being promoted. Crystal Palace finished 4th. Norwich were top of the inaugural Premier League at the start of March. QPR finished 5th that same season. The days of that consistently happening are long gone and ‘dating to dream’ are gone. There was room for one anomaly and Leicester were it. The doors on that have slammed shut now once and for all, the big clubs have seen to that. Did you enjoy 2012-13 or 2016-17 more than 92-93 or 95-96? On the first point I think you might be surprised. Man City were in Division 3 with us less than 20 years ago. It's not impossible to see someone investing heavily in say Crystal Palace or Villa or Leeds in the way they did in Man City and they come through to threaten the present Big 6 again. Laugh if you like but a football giant for the South of London or Britain's 2nd city or a Yorkshire club to match today's Lancastrian giants, it's not unthinkable. I bet someone rises from the ashes in the next 10 years. On the 2nd point you have taken our least favourite 2 years in the Prem and matched them up against our best 2 years in our 23 years out of the top flight so you know the answer!
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Dec 7, 2018 13:47:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2018 13:55:22 GMT
Given that money buys success and we're owned by some of the richest people around,if there were the investment we could,in theory,be one of the top clubs.
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Post by 1982stokie on Dec 7, 2018 14:04:16 GMT
For me nothing much has changed, I always remember nobody being able to compete with Man u financially and them winning week in week out and generally winning the league, only difference is that now there is possibly 2 or 3 really challenging for the title.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 7, 2018 14:12:30 GMT
Given that money buys success and we're owned by some of the richest people around,if there were the investment we could,in theory,be one of the top clubs. There's another factor - marketing value. The usual suspects have a pre-existing reputation and are already identifiable worldwide. So the big money investors look to invest in clubs with an established global brand name. Manchester City are an interesting one. When Sheikh Mansoor was looking to invest he could have chosen a number of clubs - including us - but he went for Manchester City. Why? I'll give you a clue - it starts with M. The problem for us is we don't have a global profile and there are lot of teams ahead of us in that pecking order. We can always trade off our fans ability to wreck toilets - but that's a fairly niche market. And the do gooders out there won't understand the marketing potential of a broken sink.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2018 15:10:38 GMT
During the early 90s, Leeds won the league a couple of years after being promoted. Crystal Palace finished 4th. Norwich were top of the inaugural Premier League at the start of March. QPR finished 5th that same season. The days of that consistently happening are long gone and ‘dating to dream’ are gone. There was room for one anomaly and Leicester were it. The doors on that have slammed shut now once and for all, the big clubs have seen to that. Did you enjoy 2012-13 or 2016-17 more than 92-93 or 95-96? On the first point I think you might be surprised. Man City were in Division 3 with us less than 20 years ago. It's not impossible to see someone investing heavily in say Crystal Palace or Villa or Leeds in the way they did in Man City and they come through to threaten the present Big 6 again. Laugh if you like but a football giant for the South of London or Britain's 2nd city or a Yorkshire club to match today's Lancastrian giants, it's not unthinkable. I bet someone rises from the ashes in the next 10 years. On the 2nd point you have taken our least favourite 2 years in the Prem and matched them up against our best 2 years in our 23 years out of the top flight so you know the answer! Yes and then they were bought by petrodollars. What a fairytale. That isn’t the same thing as what I was talking about, which was a far more level playing field, not just whoever next gets to sell their soul to the highest bidder. I quite deliberately chose those seasons yes, because you seemed to be suggesting every aspect of the Premier League was better than any aspect without it. I think those examples suggest that’s not actually the case... I’m also mystified by the yearnings for the trappings of ‘fame’ or that anyone should care about being last on MOTD again or that Durham/Savage or any of those chodes on Soccer Saturday might start talking about us again. Fuck every last one of them.
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Post by rosco on Dec 7, 2018 15:11:45 GMT
Went to Mumbai v Chennai last night and had this debate with my mate. The standard was awful (funny at times) but it was end to end and entertaining. Enjoyed it far more than the average Premier League game.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2018 15:13:47 GMT
Given that money buys success and we're owned by some of the richest people around,if there were the investment we could,in theory,be one of the top clubs. There's another factor - marketing value. The usual suspects have a pre-existing reputation and are already identifiable worldwide. So the big money investors look to invest in clubs with an established global brand name. Manchester City are an interesting one. When Sheikh Mansoor was looking to invest he could have chosen a number of clubs - including us - but he went for Manchester City. Why? I'll give you a clue - it starts with M. The problem for us is we don't have a global profile and there are lot of teams ahead of us in that pecking order. We can always trade off our fans ability to wreck toilets - but that's a fairly niche market. And the do gooders out there won't understand the marketing potential of a broken sink. If BET365 do well in the foreign gambling markets.....and they are in prime position to do so......the name BET365 will be a worldwide brand. Imagine Stoke City in the top 6,on tv every week throughout the world,basically that would be free advertising for BET365 to a global audience. It won't happen of course
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Dec 7, 2018 15:19:14 GMT
There's another factor - marketing value. The usual suspects have a pre-existing reputation and are already identifiable worldwide. So the big money investors look to invest in clubs with an established global brand name. Manchester City are an interesting one. When Sheikh Mansoor was looking to invest he could have chosen a number of clubs - including us - but he went for Manchester City. Why? I'll give you a clue - it starts with M. The problem for us is we don't have a global profile and there are lot of teams ahead of us in that pecking order. We can always trade off our fans ability to wreck toilets - but that's a fairly niche market. And the do gooders out there won't understand the marketing potential of a broken sink. If BET365 do well in the foreign gambling markets.....and they are in prime position to do so......the name BET365 will be a worldwide brand. Imagine Stoke City in the top 6,on tv every week throughout the world,basically that would be free advertising for BET365 to a global audience. It won't happen of course Well haven't the gambling companies agreed not to show advertisements during live sporting events? Having us there would help! They're more likely to sponsor someone else!
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Post by Gods on Dec 7, 2018 15:19:25 GMT
On the first point I think you might be surprised. Man City were in Division 3 with us less than 20 years ago. It's not impossible to see someone investing heavily in say Crystal Palace or Villa or Leeds in the way they did in Man City and they come through to threaten the present Big 6 again. Laugh if you like but a football giant for the South of London or Britain's 2nd city or a Yorkshire club to match today's Lancastrian giants, it's not unthinkable. I bet someone rises from the ashes in the next 10 years. On the 2nd point you have taken our least favourite 2 years in the Prem and matched them up against our best 2 years in our 23 years out of the top flight so you know the answer! Yes and then they were bought by petrodollars. What a fairytale. That isn’t the same thing as what I was talking about, which was a far more level playing field, not just whoever next gets to sell their soul to the highest bidder. I quite deliberately chose those seasons yes, because you seemed to be suggesting every aspect of the Premier League was better than any aspect without it. I think those examples suggest that’s not actually the case... I’m also mystified by the yearnings for the trappings of ‘fame’ or that anyone should care about being last on MOTD again or that Durham/Savage or any of those chodes on Soccer Saturday might start talking about us again. Fuck every last one of them. Fair enough on the first 2 points, on the 'trappings of fame' I need to defer to rockabilly George Hamilton IV in his track "If you don't know I ain't gonna tell you" ! You ask me why I drive a hot rod coupe DeLuxe With three carburetors straight stick ship souped up engine High compression heads and overdrive hu You don't know I ain't gonna tell you from now on it's up to you fellow I think you know just what I'm talking about
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2018 15:55:52 GMT
If BET365 do well in the foreign gambling markets.....and they are in prime position to do so......the name BET365 will be a worldwide brand. Imagine Stoke City in the top 6,on tv every week throughout the world,basically that would be free advertising for BET365 to a global audience. It won't happen of course Well haven't the gambling companies agreed not to show advertisements during live sporting events? Having us there would help! They're more likely to sponsor someone else! I think that's just in the UK
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2018 16:52:31 GMT
Yes and then they were bought by petrodollars. What a fairytale. That isn’t the same thing as what I was talking about, which was a far more level playing field, not just whoever next gets to sell their soul to the highest bidder. I quite deliberately chose those seasons yes, because you seemed to be suggesting every aspect of the Premier League was better than any aspect without it. I think those examples suggest that’s not actually the case... I’m also mystified by the yearnings for the trappings of ‘fame’ or that anyone should care about being last on MOTD again or that Durham/Savage or any of those chodes on Soccer Saturday might start talking about us again. Fuck every last one of them. Fair enough on the first 2 points, on the 'trappings of fame' I need to defer to rockabilly George Hamilton IV in his track "If you don't know I ain't gonna tell you" ! You ask me why I drive a hot rod coupe DeLuxe With three carburetors straight stick ship souped up engine High compression heads and overdrive hu You don't know I ain't gonna tell you from now on it's up to you fellow I think you know just what I'm talking about You lost me at ‘Rockabilly’.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2018 17:41:40 GMT
I’d rather be back in the Premier League than watching these shit teams in the Championship.
The standard is dreadful.
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