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Post by generationex on Dec 6, 2018 21:19:17 GMT
how do you qualify that when Manchester United are not up there The top four is comprised of four of the same six clubs pretty much every season and will continue to be. That’s how I qualify it. What would your counter argument that it’s a land of opportunity be? Erm.. Leicester City?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 6, 2018 21:23:35 GMT
The top four is comprised of four of the same six clubs pretty much every season and will continue to be. That’s how I qualify it. What would your counter argument that it’s a land of opportunity be? Erm.. Leicester City? An anomaly that has resulted in the big boys biting back twice as hard. A one-off. Before the Premier League and in its infancy teams from outside the big boys could regularly have a crack at the top four. Forest, Norwich, Palace, QPR etc. It wasn’t a flukey exception to the rule.
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Post by Absolution on Dec 6, 2018 22:01:50 GMT
In the 26 years of the Premier League there's only been six times when the winners or runner up have been a team outside of the recognised top six. Five of those six were in the first five years of the Premier League.
In the 26 years preceding that, the winners or runners up of the old first division were teams outside the current recognised top six a total of 22 times.
You can pick a shitload of holes in the make-up of those stats given that different teams such as Leeds were the recognised top teams for certain periods. But the unpredictability compared to the current yawnfest is there for all to see.
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Post by bhp on Dec 6, 2018 22:39:11 GMT
I can't even be arsed watch most of it. Cardiff v Bournemouth Burnley v Huddersfield Fulham v wolves Southampton v Newcastle palace v Brighton I mean, come on. Palace v Brighton? Hope you're having a laugh! One of the most notorious derbies in English football. Give yer ed a wobble.
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Post by GoBoks on Dec 6, 2018 23:20:45 GMT
It is a weird one as I want us to win every game but couldn’t give a damn about being in the Premiership I miss some of the players we had and some of the football we played. Nothing will beat out first season in the Premiership. Not for the football but for the unity Nowadays I rarely watch any Premiership games. It somehow feels more real in the Championship and the games more unpredictable Me too! Hoekstra, Eustace, Fuller, Sir Shtan, All great players even in tyhe championship or lower!
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 6, 2018 23:24:07 GMT
Championship is great, who wouldn't prefer to watch James McClean rather than Shaqiri? Honestly, what a load of cobblers this thread is. Mark Stein or Joselu? This is a fun game isn’t it? Anybody who says they prefer the Championship and watching Stoke City in it clearly have no interest in Stoke City achieving anything. The PL isn't perfect but we're better in it than out.
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Post by JoeinOz on Dec 7, 2018 0:00:32 GMT
People have been suggesting it's dying a death for 20 years. But the facts suggest otherwise.
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Post by Gods on Dec 7, 2018 0:38:56 GMT
Mark Stein or Joselu? This is a fun game isn’t it? Anybody who says they prefer the Championship and watching Stoke City in it clearly have no interest in Stoke City achieving anything. The PL isn't perfect but we're better in it than out. Yes of course we are. It's not even a point for debate. Some of the comments on here from normally sane posters are just plain delusional.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2018 6:23:21 GMT
Mark Stein or Joselu? This is a fun game isn’t it? Anybody who says they prefer the Championship and watching Stoke City in it clearly have no interest in Stoke City achieving anything. The PL isn't perfect but we're better in it than out. The idea it’s impossible to enjoy any kind of football that isn’t the Premier League is what’s cringeworthy and embarrassing.
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Post by dwr17477 on Dec 7, 2018 6:25:45 GMT
Anybody who says they prefer the Championship and watching Stoke City in it clearly have no interest in Stoke City achieving anything. The PL isn't perfect but we're better in it than out. Yes of course we are. It's not even a point for debate. Some of the comments on here from normally sane posters are just plain delusional. Pleased to read your two comments on this thread. If we're not careful, we'll be yearning for the days of Bamber, Harby and that ilk and kidding ourselves they were better than Crouch or Pieters, etc. Being so buoyed about playing in the Championship(and lower) only fuels the fire of those wanting a breakaway European Super League - they can argue that we're happy with our lot and therefore their breakaway can go ahead unhindered. It just plays into their(and their gloryhunting fans) hands. We and others like us need to be pushing to get back in the Prem to get that opportunity to blood the noses of the likes of Chelsea and Man City. Good luck and well done to Wolves, etc. There's nothing better than the feeling of a win in the top flight - especially against the 'big boys'. If you say or feel otherwise, I despair. The Premier League is what it is and we were part of that for 10 years and we have a total of 62 years of top flight football behind us. I hope we have the chance to increase those years - pandering to Super Leagues and being foolish enough to say we're better off without the top clubs playing in an English league anymore means we might never have the chance to witness such wonderful moments as our victories against Manchester United, Arsenal, Manchester City, Chelsea and Liverpool again. Think about that...or are wins against Rotherham, for example, outside the Premier League your football drug? No, I didn't think so.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2018 6:26:36 GMT
Anybody who says they prefer the Championship and watching Stoke City in it clearly have no interest in Stoke City achieving anything. The PL isn't perfect but we're better in it than out. Yes of course we are. It's not even a point for debate. Some of the comments on here from normally sane posters are just plain delusional. I thought the discussion was about enjoyment, not being ‘better off’. Financially off course we’re better off in it. I can’t say I relish a trip to get dicked at Manchester City more than a day on the ale at Brammal Lane though. Horses for courses but I just like football and a competitive game is more interesting to me than being an also-ran in a league that’s increasingly about six clubs and everyone relate tugging their forelock and saying “please sir, can I have another”.
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Post by heworksardtho on Dec 7, 2018 6:49:03 GMT
I can't even be arsed watch most of it. Cardiff v Bournemouth Burnley v Huddersfield Fulham v wolves Southampton v Newcastle palace v Brighton I mean, come on. Palace v Brighton? Hope you're having a laugh! One of the most notorious derbies in English football. Give yer ed a wobble. Nearly 45 miles apart between the two grounds is this really classed as a derbie
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Post by scfc75 on Dec 7, 2018 7:07:36 GMT
Palace v Brighton? Hope you're having a laugh! One of the most notorious derbies in English football. Give yer ed a wobble. Nearly 45 miles apart between the two grounds is this really classed as a derbie There’s some history there, I can’t recall what or why.... think it goes back to the 70’s (somebody on here will know the story but I CBA to look it up). So you’re right, in terms of how I would recognise a ‘derby’ - by distance - it’s no more a derby than Stoke v Wolves. But there is some kind of rivalry there that gives that fixture an edge.
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Post by sportsman on Dec 7, 2018 7:47:30 GMT
I can't even be arsed watch most of it. Cardiff v Bournemouth Burnley v Huddersfield Fulham v wolves Southampton v Newcastle palace v Brighton I mean, come on. Palace v Brighton? Hope you're having a laugh! One of the most notorious derbies in English football. Give yer ed a wobble. As a premier league game? I couldn't give a fuck about it? Might be big to them, but to the nation? Get your head wobbling
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Post by scfcno1fan on Dec 7, 2018 8:57:09 GMT
Every top league in the world is dominated by a few teams.
That’s just how it is.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2018 8:57:53 GMT
A few years ago there was a top 4 of elite teams in the top division,then it grew to 5,6 and some even say 7 now,so based on that you could say the Prem is getting stronger.....or just that a couple more clubs backed by huge investment have risen to the top causing a bigger gulf to the rest. And yet still the lower clubs do beat the top,Wolves Chelsea being an example only this week
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2018 9:06:17 GMT
Every top league in the world is dominated by a few teams. That’s just how it is. Ours didn’t used to be. Not to this extent.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2018 9:07:44 GMT
A few years ago there was a top 4 of elite teams in the top division,then it grew to 5,6 and some even say 7 now,so based on that you could say the Prem is getting stronger.....or just that a couple more clubs backed by huge investment have risen to the top causing a bigger gulf to the rest. And yet still the lower clubs do beat the top,Wolves Chelsea being an example only this week What other examples of that are there this season? The fact that we’re lauding Wolves, the Man City of the Championship last season, chucking around 20-30m on individual players in the second tier, as some kind of plucky upstarts says it all.
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Post by broadwayroundabout on Dec 7, 2018 9:07:48 GMT
And what it is a closed shop, whereas before anyone could have at least a decent crack at a top 4 spot. how do you qualify that when Manchester United are not up there Mouhrinio?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2018 9:13:27 GMT
A few years ago there was a top 4 of elite teams in the top division,then it grew to 5,6 and some even say 7 now,so based on that you could say the Prem is getting stronger.....or just that a couple more clubs backed by huge investment have risen to the top causing a bigger gulf to the rest. And yet still the lower clubs do beat the top,Wolves Chelsea being an example only this week What other examples of that are there this season? The fact that we’re lauding Wolves, the Man City of the Championship last season, chucking around 20-30m on individual players in the second tier, as some kind of plucky upstarts says it all. The season is only halfway through,there will be others
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 7, 2018 9:22:18 GMT
Palace v Brighton? Hope you're having a laugh! One of the most notorious derbies in English football. Give yer ed a wobble. As a premier league game? I couldn't give a fuck about it? Might be big to them, but to the nation? Get your head wobbling Why should you be interested anyway? I don't really understand the significance of you not being interested tbh? How many people outside of the two cities would have been interested in Stoke v Swansea last season?
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 7, 2018 10:09:02 GMT
Anybody who says they prefer the Championship and watching Stoke City in it clearly have no interest in Stoke City achieving anything. The PL isn't perfect but we're better in it than out. The idea it’s impossible to enjoy any kind of football that isn’t the Premier League is what’s cringeworthy and embarrassing. I'm not saying that am I. We have a section of support who prefer to be in a lower league. They're happy with mediocrity.
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Post by heworksardtho on Dec 7, 2018 10:13:20 GMT
Nearly 45 miles apart between the two grounds is this really classed as a derbie There’s some history there, I can’t recall what or why.... think it goes back to the 70’s (somebody on here will know the story but I CBA to look it up). So you’re right, in terms of how I would recognise a ‘derby’ - by distance - it’s no more a derby than Stoke v Wolves. But there is some kind of rivalry there that gives that fixture an edge. Thanks for the info I’d like to know more but like you I can’t be arsed either , but always seems a tasty game between the two
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2018 10:15:35 GMT
What other examples of that are there this season? The fact that we’re lauding Wolves, the Man City of the Championship last season, chucking around 20-30m on individual players in the second tier, as some kind of plucky upstarts says it all. The season is only halfway through,there will be others There won’t be many. The game changed after the Leicester miracle. Far fewer noses are bloodied.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2018 10:17:06 GMT
The idea it’s impossible to enjoy any kind of football that isn’t the Premier League is what’s cringeworthy and embarrassing. I'm not saying that am I. We have a section of support who prefer to be in a lower league. They're happy with mediocrity. You can think the Premier League isn’t the be all and end all without being ‘happy with mediocrity’. The playing field is fucked.
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Post by bhp on Dec 7, 2018 10:29:11 GMT
Palace v Brighton? Hope you're having a laugh! One of the most notorious derbies in English football. Give yer ed a wobble. As a premier league game? I couldn't give a fuck about it? Might be big to them, but to the nation? Get your head wobbling Ok, just saying. It's up there with Rangers vs Celtic...
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 7, 2018 10:33:29 GMT
Yes of course we are. It's not even a point for debate. Some of the comments on here from normally sane posters are just plain delusional. Pleased to read your two comments on this thread. If we're not careful, we'll be yearning for the days of Bamber, Harby and that ilk and kidding ourselves they were better than Crouch or Pieters, etc. Being so buoyed about playing in the Championship(and lower) only fuels the fire of those wanting a breakaway European Super League - they can argue that we're happy with our lot and therefore their breakaway can go ahead unhindered. It just plays into their(and their gloryhunting fans) hands. We and others like us need to be pushing to get back in the Prem to get that opportunity to blood the noses of the likes of Chelsea and Man City. Good luck and well done to Wolves, etc. There's nothing better than the feeling of a win in the top flight - especially against the 'big boys'. If you say or feel otherwise, I despair. The Premier League is what it is and we were part of that for 10 years and we have a total of 62 years of top flight football behind us. I hope we have the chance to increase those years - pandering to Super Leagues and being foolish enough to say we're better off without the top clubs playing in an English league anymore means we might never have the chance to witness such wonderful moments as our victories against Manchester United, Arsenal, Manchester City, Chelsea and Liverpool again. Think about that...or are wins against Rotherham, for example, outside the Premier League your football drug? No, I didn't think so. Just at the moment, beating Rotherham would be nice! As I sat there watching us go 2 down, I decided enough was enough, Rowett is a poor manager and not going to achieve anything. I was then heartened to see the lads fight back and witness a brilliant Bojan goal. That's what watching the game is about; one minute your down, then you are up. I'd prefer to be in the Premier League. I know there is little chance of achieving much and half the matches are about trying to avoid being thrashed, but my main wish for Stoke is to win the FA Cup before I shuffle off. That is not going to happen with a Championship side. But football has it's attractions at all levels and the Championship has a lot going for it.
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Post by MilanStokie on Dec 7, 2018 10:49:49 GMT
I think we are all on the same page here but disagreeing as to WHY.
At the end of the day sport should always be about winning or doing as well as possible, after all we are in a COMPETITION.
By the simple fact that some prefer to play at a lower level just proves the system is currently nackered and needs a revamp asap.
The only real way is by having more financial parity across the board, more for teams outside the elite to play for, such as playoff system for europa league that can involve clubs up to 10th.
The direction it's going is simply Manchester City and Co get richer, the glass ceiling gets thicker and the sport becomes even more predictable and tiresome. I am sure we are all looking forward to Barca v PSG for the nth time in recent years in the CL knockouts aren't we....
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Post by Gods on Dec 7, 2018 12:07:13 GMT
Yes of course we are. It's not even a point for debate. Some of the comments on here from normally sane posters are just plain delusional. I thought the discussion was about enjoyment, not being ‘better off’. Financially off course we’re better off in it. I can’t say I relish a trip to get dicked at Manchester City more than a day on the ale at Brammal Lane though. Horses for courses but I just like football and a competitive game is more interesting to me than being an also-ran in a league that’s increasingly about six clubs and everyone relate tugging their forelock and saying “please sir, can I have another”. You were one of my 'normally sane' posters! I was referring to enjoyment rather than financial. I immensely enjoyed our 10 year tenure in the Prem and have I have enjoyed the last 6 months out of the spotlight far less. I honestly didn't realise you had such a downer on the Prem. I know it is getting more one-sided but it always has been to some degree in my time. Liverpool used to win everything when I first started watching, Everton for a short time, then Arsenal, then Manchester United for a long time, Chelsea for a short time and now Man City. Spurs have always been knocking on the door without coming in. The contenders haven't fundamentally changed in 50 years. It's been punctuated down the years by Leeds, Derby, Forest, Villa, Blackburn and most recently Leicester all winning the title but they are and always will be the exception which proves the rule. The reason you dare to dream.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 7, 2018 12:58:37 GMT
I thought the discussion was about enjoyment, not being ‘better off’. Financially off course we’re better off in it. I can’t say I relish a trip to get dicked at Manchester City more than a day on the ale at Brammal Lane though. Horses for courses but I just like football and a competitive game is more interesting to me than being an also-ran in a league that’s increasingly about six clubs and everyone relate tugging their forelock and saying “please sir, can I have another”. You were one of my 'normally sane' posters! I was referring to enjoyment rather than financial. I immensely enjoyed our 10 year tenure in the Prem and have I have enjoyed the last 6 months out of the spotlight far less. I honestly didn't realise you had such a downer on the Prem. I know it is getting more one-sided but it always has been to some degree in my time. Liverpool use to win everything when I first started watching, Everton for a short time, then Arsenal, then Manchester United for a long time, Chelsea for a short time and now Man City. Spurs have always been knocking on the door without coming in. The contenders haven't fundamentally changed in 50 years. It's been punctuated down the years by Leeds, Derby, Forest, Villa, Blackburn and most recently Leicester but they are and always will be the exception which proves the rule. The reason you dare to dream. During the early 90s, Leeds won the league a couple of years after being promoted. Crystal Palace finished 4th. Norwich were top of the inaugural Premier League at the start of March. QPR finished 5th that same season. The days of that consistently happening are long gone and ‘dating to dream’ are gone. There was room for one anomaly and Leicester were it. The doors on that have slammed shut now once and for all, the big clubs have seen to that. Did you enjoy 2012-13 or 2016-17 more than 92-93 or 95-96?
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