|
Post by wakefieldstokie on Oct 3, 2018 9:51:55 GMT
Last nights game pretty much confines Shawcross to the bench against Norwich (training injuries aside). Is the start of the end?
Personally no, not until January or Clucas fitting in well at the back. If he can get back in the side, before Christmas is key as Williams has a error or two in him.
|
|
|
Post by Clem Fandango on Oct 3, 2018 9:57:36 GMT
It might be the start of the end but that back four has so many errors in it that it wouldnt surprise me to see Shawcross back in two games.
|
|
|
Post by loosestools on Oct 3, 2018 10:00:08 GMT
It's probably his last season, unless a miracle happens. January will be key for us as Williams is not the answer.
|
|
|
Post by robwahlmann on Oct 3, 2018 10:02:29 GMT
He'll be back, still our best central defender in my opinion. Needs a quicker and more mobile player alongside him though, but that goes for all of our three major central defenders.
|
|
|
Post by mrred on Oct 3, 2018 10:24:08 GMT
Be good for him. Him and Pieters have gone far too long without any competition for their place. In years gone by Shawcross would play regardless of his performances because "he's Mr. Stoke City" apparently. Having competition for his place and knowing he isn't an automatic starter might be the kick up the arse he needs, minus his increasing lack of mobility.
|
|
|
Shawcross
Oct 3, 2018 10:24:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by kjpt140v on Oct 3, 2018 10:24:39 GMT
This, sadly, is the beginning of the end. Ryan has been hampered by his back injury and I for one am sorry to witness his demise but he's still a very useful centre half and can still do a good job unfortunately he's not Ryan of old.
Last night Bolton put very little pressure on our defence with Williams hardly being tested therefore whether the defence has improved or not without Ryan we wont know until we've played a few games. Indi played well last night but I thought Erik was our best defender.
Here's hoping I'm wrong about Ryan and that he overcomes his injury and gets his form back.
|
|
|
Post by rawli on Oct 3, 2018 10:27:31 GMT
The end started a while back. No one wanted to face up to it though.
|
|
|
Post by onefatcopper on Oct 3, 2018 10:27:51 GMT
A break from the frontline may be a blessing in disguise for Ryan, it’s giving him time to take stock of his situation,regroup,reflect and recharge, Ryan is still at a relatively young age for the modern footballer. For a central defender playing ten years at the top Ryan has come through the wars virtually unscathed, I know he’s had his troubles with his recurring back problem and this will never be the same again. But Ryan needs to use his vast experience and learn to read the game, with being a spectator he will have a overview of the action and see how the defence and the rest of the team are making collective errors. I would not rule out Ryan just yet and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him back with a younger partner who could do the running for Ryan ?
|
|
|
Post by mrred on Oct 3, 2018 10:32:28 GMT
The end started a while back. No one wanted to face up to it though. This is true. Anyone that dared point out that Shawcross was in decline was met with a wall of abuse. This isn't a new thing.
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on Oct 3, 2018 10:36:20 GMT
I found it quite bizarre last night that (in particular the 1st half) Williams launched the ball forward about 9 or 10 times and those around me never uttered a word. When Shawcross was doing exactly same, the same people were slaughtering him.
Bizarre/strange, but obvious with both playing to orders
|
|
|
Shawcross
Oct 3, 2018 10:36:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by kerouac on Oct 3, 2018 10:36:21 GMT
I appreciate all he’s done but he’s had his time,I know Williams is an accident waiting to happen but he’s a lot more fluid than Ryan and buzzes about far more and seems to offer options.Basically he’s more mobile.
|
|
|
Shawcross
Oct 3, 2018 10:39:44 GMT
via mobile
Post by gingerninja on Oct 3, 2018 10:39:44 GMT
Williams is a better passer for sure, whether a better player, open to debate.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2018 10:44:00 GMT
Ryan still has a lot to offer but the days of him being the first name on the team sheet are gone. He is on a par with Williams and BMI for me, the best partnership out of those 3 is what we need - not necessarily the best 2 players.
|
|
|
Post by oslostokie1 on Oct 3, 2018 10:58:27 GMT
I found it quite bizarre last night that (in particular the 1st half) Williams launched the ball forward about 9 or 10 times and those around me never uttered a word. When Shawcross was doing exactly same, the same people were slaughtering him. Bizarre/strange, but obvious with both playing to orders Perhaps that was because Williams found his man most of the time. Our distribution from the back was far superior with the much maligned Williams and Martina, even if it is not the populist view. Shawcross and Bauer are fans favourites for different reasons but don't let that blind you from acknowledging good performances by their replacements, of which last night was definitely one.
|
|
|
Post by madeleystokie on Oct 3, 2018 12:28:21 GMT
Indeed. I noticed that too. Some balls of course, didn't reach a man but those were more often than not on occasions where he'd been closed down and forced to punt it forward. He actually did put a few useful balls down the channel for someone run on to. However, Shawcross tends to just have one style when it comes to launch it up field which is more of a chip as the ball will hang in the air rather than having a bit of pace on it.
|
|
|
Post by Seymour Beaver on Oct 3, 2018 13:22:18 GMT
There wasn't much defending to be done last night so from that point of view it was hard t judge.
However it did seem to me that the ball came out that bit quicker from Williams. Shawcross waits on the ball too long ether inviting the press or allowing the opposition to get into position - which just has the effect of putting us under unnecessary pressure.
|
|
|
Post by oslostokie1 on Oct 3, 2018 13:25:51 GMT
There wasn't much defending to be done last night so from that point of view it was hard t judge. However it did seem to me that the ball came out that bit quicker from Williams. Shawcross waits on the ball too long ether inviting the press or allowing the opposition to get into position - which just has the effect of putting us under unnecessary pressure. Maybe there was not so much defending because we controlled the game much better from the back. Woods had no qualms with knocking it to either central defender on a frequent basis
|
|
|
Post by jimmygscfc on Oct 3, 2018 14:37:30 GMT
Or very often Woods was the first player to pick the ball up from Jack which enables him to have options either side and in front of him. Before, if Ryan was given the ball it would either go back to Jack, across to his partner or chipped up field. Either way, Williams does have better distribution. However, I'd love us to go and get a new centre back in January.
|
|
|
Post by Vermelho20312505 on Oct 3, 2018 14:46:44 GMT
I found it quite bizarre last night that (in particular the 1st half) Williams launched the ball forward about 9 or 10 times and those around me never uttered a word. When Shawcross was doing exactly same, the same people were slaughtering him. Bizarre/strange, but obvious with both playing to orders Perhaps that was because Williams found his man most of the time. Our distribution from the back was far superior with the much maligned Williams and Martina, even if it is not the populist view. Shawcross and Bauer are fans favourites for different reasons but don't let that blind you from acknowledging good performances by their replacements, of which last night was definitely one. I don't agree that he found his man most of the time. He gave the ball away a lot in my opinion. At least compared to the rest of the team who whilst we dominated possession.
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on Oct 3, 2018 15:35:38 GMT
There wasn't much defending to be done last night so from that point of view it was hard t judge. However it did seem to me that the ball came out that bit quicker from Williams. Shawcross waits on the ball too long ether inviting the press or allowing the opposition to get into position - which just has the effect of putting us under unnecessary pressure. Maybe there was not so much defending because we controlled the game much better from the back. Woods had no qualms with knocking it to either central defender on a frequent basis IMHO Bolton (last night) were awful particularly in the 1st half. They did not press at all. There were so many occasions when you could have turned the Oatcake barge around with no trouble in the spaces in midfield. When they did (rarely) attack they were totally out numbered by Stoke. It would be difficult to have an informed opinion about the two central defenders last night due to the opposition. That’s not trying to be negative or derogative about either. In respect of your comment about Wood’s, it was no different with last night’s pairing as it was with Shawcross in the middle
|
|
|
Shawcross
Oct 3, 2018 15:39:20 GMT
via mobile
Post by robrigo on Oct 3, 2018 15:39:20 GMT
I love Ryan Shawcross. One of the last men standing from the most glorious era since I started supporting them. All good things come to an end but there’s still life in the old oil tanker yet. His voyages will just be on a less frequent basis.
|
|
|
Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Oct 3, 2018 15:42:47 GMT
IMO he never truly got the time off he needed after his back sugery. For me he should have had a whole season off, he's never been the same since it happened and at that time we were solid enough to survive without him. What transpired was an unfit Shawcross, paired with some clown and Shawcross trying to cover them both with a shot back.
I love Ryan Shawcross, he's been a fantastic servant for this club, and put his body on the line time and time again. But he hasn't been up to scratch for some time now, and in the long run we're going to need a replacement.
|
|
|
Post by Miles Offside on Oct 3, 2018 17:32:00 GMT
He'd still be in my starting eleven, instead of Williams.
|
|
|
Post by Mint Berry Barks on Oct 3, 2018 17:36:10 GMT
As really sad as it sounds, I wouldn't be surprised if he retired sooner rather than later.
He's had that many issues with his back, and that's one part of your body you really don't want to fuck around with.
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on Oct 3, 2018 17:57:07 GMT
As really sad as it sounds, I wouldn't be surprised if he retired sooner rather than later. He's had that many issues with his back, and that's one part of your body you really don't want to fuck around with. That’s quite true but as an individual he’ll take advice from professional clinician’s and performance professionals at the club. The big perhaps is he’ll take more notice of the experts providing “free” fit for purpose opinions here on the Oatcake
|
|
|
Post by terrorofturfmoor on Oct 3, 2018 18:09:19 GMT
Seemed a bit bizarre seeing him warm up as a sub last night!!!
He's been rightly dropped, and (imo) should have come a lot sooner.... However, it's in his own hands now, he needs dig deep and try to rediscover some of his old form!!!
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 3, 2018 18:20:22 GMT
We need to recruit for the future - now that Rowett has established Ryan's position as no longer an automatic first choice it's clear to everyone where our transfer policy now lies. While Ryan was untouchable the problem was fudged. Not Ryan's fault - big call by Rowett that may prove a season defining decision.
If we can pick up a quality youngish but experienced centre back in Jan it's up to Ryan, Indi and Williams to prove they can provide the best partnership - and it could be any of them. If Ryan can adapt his game (become the Huth in the peak era Shawcross/Huth partnership - but without the red card in waiting) he could turn out to be the one.
For now I'd persevere with Williams/Indi partnership. Williams was strange combination of calm assurance and mistake waiting to happen last night - and I thought Indi had an excellent game - best all season. As a partnership it could tide us over to Xmas.
|
|
|
Post by reddipotter on Oct 4, 2018 9:10:26 GMT
Perhaps that was because Williams found his man most of the time. Our distribution from the back was far superior with the much maligned Williams and Martina, even if it is not the populist view. Shawcross and Bauer are fans favourites for different reasons but don't let that blind you from acknowledging good performances by their replacements, of which last night was definitely one. I don't agree that he found his man most of the time. He gave the ball away a lot in my opinion. At least compared to the rest of the team who whilst we dominated possession. Agreed. There was nothing special about his passing and most of his long balls went straight to the Bolton keeper. As another poster has pointed out, Shawcross mostly uses a chipped ball forwards which is pretty accurate. When Crouch is there, he can use this sort of pass, but Afobe hardly ever wins a ball in the air, particularly with his back to goal. In fact, we have become a team which is poor in the air which is why we concede so many goals from set pieces.
|
|
|
Post by hotterpotter on Oct 8, 2018 12:32:10 GMT
Has Shawcross being dropped made a few of the others step up their game? In a kind of "Christ if he can be dropped anyone can be dropped" kind of way.
|
|
|
Post by robwahlmann on Oct 8, 2018 12:43:08 GMT
I appreciate all he’s done but he’s had his time,I know Williams is an accident waiting to happen but he’s a lot more fluid than Ryan and buzzes about far more and seems to offer options.Basically he’s more mobile. He is half the defender Ryan is! Can't mark an opponent and losing challenges in the box because he isn't strong enough. People who say he is a better passer of the ball must be looking up in the air most of the time as they certainly can't be watching the games! I would love to see some statistics on misplaced passes and not least passes leading to goalscoring opportunities for the opponents. Williams is a liability and has made more mistakes than Ryan despite playing less minutes on the pitch. OK, he had a decent game against Norwich, but that really was the only full game where we could say he played well.
|
|