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Post by mrcoke on Oct 31, 2018 19:14:43 GMT
Objection! I am a loyal fan of the club and have persistently supported our managers until I believed it was a hopeless cause and they needed to be removed to install some one better. I was happy with Rowett's appointment, which some say was just "15 matches ago", but actually 22nd May, 5 months ago. I watched his signings, pre-season, and opening matches with great patience. I dismissed the "instant" calls for his sacking, read comments like "wait till the proper matches start" during pre-season, "wait till 10 matches are played" during the early season. Sat and endured our trousers being pulled down by Leeds in the middle of the Leeds fans because I couldn't get a ticket from Stoke, and accepted defeat saying anyone would have struggled to match Leeds that day. I remained patient during the opening defeats and draws accepting it would take time to adjust to life in the Championship and for players to get to know each other's game. I was hearten by the Hull victory but not really convinced by the performance. I questioned why was it necessary to start playing well after we started losing a match, and why when we start well, as soon as the opposition score we go to pieces. The victory against Swansea kept me "on side" despite allowing Swansea to dominate part of the match and biting my nails that they would equalise at some point. My patience finally ran out at Rotherham when we again let a poor team take a 2 goal lead. I was delighted we fought back (you can see me jumping up and down in front of Bojan when he scored) but came to the conclusion Rowett is not motivating the side, who only really get truly motivated when losing, and our build up play is none existent, hence the paucity of goals from open play. Even the victories against Norwich and Bristol have been totally against the run of play; games where we miraculously avoided conceding goals. As I said at the top of this post, I am a loyal fan, am delighted when we get a good result and I know there have been some. I would be delighted to be proven wrong by Rowett, but all the evidence I have seen from our performances, tactics, team selection and substitutions indicate to me he is out of his depth. Our defending has been abysmal and a our goal scoring chance creation almost none existent. We cannot wait and see. It is vital we get back into the Prem this season and waiting to see if we qualify for the play-offs is not the right course of action. The play-offs are a cup competition and we know what our history in cup competitions is like, and Rowett showed last season he cannot manage play-offs. Next season we are certain to lose decent players like Butland, Etebo, Allen, Woods, and any of the players who come good, if we are not promoted. Most of our aged squad will another year into their 30s, so it is vital we go back up this season. I don't see any evidence that Rowett is the man to get this club promoted and we cannot afford just to wait and hope things get better. By better I mean better performances that will be the major determining factor on where we will finish in the league at the end of the season. You make some good points there but you have to remember that this is the first time Rowett has been in this situation and there are very few managers that take on a new situation and are instantly successful. He's never had this expectation. He's never had this much money to spend. He's never managed a newly relegated team before, which comes with the added baggage of a wrecked dressing room and shattered confidence. There are a few things I'm not impressed with thus far but the situation above should cut him a bit of slack. Name me a manager, that fits the profile of the board and would come in on budget and be instantly successful given the above scenario? Give him the season and assess him at the end I reckon is the right way to go and it's the way I fully expect Peter and the board to go. Thank you for your considered response. I supported the choice of Rowett , wanting a manager who's career is in front of him and not behind him. I have not been impressed by anything he has done since 22nd May apart from getting rid of some dead wood, signing Woods, and as I posted above he does seem lucky. CEOs engaging head hunter resources are far better placed to select a manager than us mere fans. I have supported each choice and considered Karenka the best option when I finally wanted Hughes out. We need a manager who has achieved promotion and can command the dressing room, so I would go for Bruce today. He has had his successes and failures, but his failures have largely been when he has not had the full support of disinterested owners. Your last comment is answered by my penultimate paragraph. If we don't achieve promotion this season I fear we will condemned to another generation of oblivion.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Oct 31, 2018 20:01:28 GMT
Third!!!!! Motion carried????? Objection! I am a loyal fan of the club and have persistently supported our managers until I believed it was a hopeless cause and they needed to be removed to install some one better. I was happy with Rowett's appointment, which some say was just "15 matches ago", but actually 22nd May, 5 months ago. I watched his signings, pre-season, and opening matches with great patience. I dismissed the "instant" calls for his sacking, read comments like "wait till the proper matches start" during pre-season, "wait till 10 matches are played" during the early season. Sat and endured our trousers being pulled down by Leeds in the middle of the Leeds fans because I couldn't get a ticket from Stoke, and accepted defeat saying anyone would have struggled to match Leeds that day. I remained patient during the opening defeats and draws accepting it would take time to adjust to life in the Championship and for players to get to know each other's game. I was hearten by the Hull victory but not really convinced by the performance. I questioned why was it necessary to start playing well after we started losing a match, and why when we start well, as soon as the opposition score we go to pieces. The victory against Swansea kept me "on side" despite allowing Swansea to dominate part of the match and biting my nails that they would equalise at some point. My patience finally ran out at Rotherham when we again let a poor team take a 2 goal lead. I was delighted we fought back (you can see me jumping up and down in front of Bojan when he scored) but came to the conclusion Rowett is not motivating the side, who only really get truly motivated when losing, and our build up play is none existent, hence the paucity of goals from open play. Even the victories against Norwich and Bristol have been totally against the run of play; games where we miraculously avoided conceding goals. As I said at the top of this post, I am a loyal fan, am delighted when we get a good result and I know there have been some. I would be delighted to be proven wrong by Rowett, but all the evidence I have seen from our performances, tactics, team selection and substitutions indicate to me he is out of his depth. Our defending has been abysmal and a our goal scoring chance creation almost none existent. We cannot wait and see. It is vital we get back into the Prem this season and waiting to see if we qualify for the play-offs is not the right course of action. The play-offs are a cup competition and we know what our history in cup competitions is like, and Rowett showed last season he cannot manage play-offs. Next season we are certain to lose decent players like Butland, Etebo, Allen, Woods, and any of the players who come good, if we are not promoted. Most of our aged squad will another year into their 30s, so it is vital we go back up this season. I don't see any evidence that Rowett is the man to get this club promoted and we cannot afford just to wait and hope things get better. By better I mean better performances that will be the major determining factor on where we will finish in the league at the end of the season. I too think he struggles to motivate the players or instil a sense of loyalty to him and the cause. I think his public naming/shaming of certain players was divisive and will be his undoing eventually. However I also think he’s not going to get sacked this season (unless we’re in relegation territory)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 20:05:35 GMT
You make some good points there but you have to remember that this is the first time Rowett has been in this situation and there are very few managers that take on a new situation and are instantly successful. He's never had this expectation. He's never had this much money to spend. He's never managed a newly relegated team before, which comes with the added baggage of a wrecked dressing room and shattered confidence. There are a few things I'm not impressed with thus far but the situation above should cut him a bit of slack. Name me a manager, that fits the profile of the board and would come in on budget and be instantly successful given the above scenario? Give him the season and assess him at the end I reckon is the right way to go and it's the way I fully expect Peter and the board to go. Thank you for your considered response. I supported the choice of Rowett , wanting a manager who's career is in front of him and not behind him. I have not been impressed by anything he has done since 22nd May apart from getting rid of some dead wood, signing Woods, and as I posted above he does seem lucky. CEOs engaging head hunter resources are far better placed to select a manager than us mere fans. I have supported each choice and considered Karenka the best option when I finally wanted Hughes out. We need a manager who has achieved promotion and can command the dressing room, so I would go for Bruce today. He has had his successes and failures, but his failures have largely been when he has not had the full support of disinterested owners. Your last comment is answered by my penultimate paragraph. If we don't achieve promotion this season I fear we will condemned to another generation of oblivion. You are very welcome mrcoke. It was a good post that deserved a considered response, regardless of whether I agreed or not. Karanka is an interesting shout but I would steer clear based on his failure at Middlesbrough with owners I consider the closest to ours. Very supportive, not trigger happy and genuinely and honestly back their managers. If you can't succeed in that situation when can you? He's also very negative and a bit of a loose cannon. Bruce I just don't like. He goes on very long periods of struggling for wins which has cost him in the past and almost cost him at other times in his career. If we don't achieve Promotion, which I don't think we would have done anyway bar an exceptional and outstanding appointment, then it will be hard but not impossible.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Oct 31, 2018 20:34:16 GMT
If Rowett beats Pulis on Saturday, despite my previous scathing criticism, I will support him for the rest of the season
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 31, 2018 22:19:14 GMT
If Rowett beats Pulis on Saturday, despite my previous scathing criticism, I will support him for the rest of the season It would certainly be a step in the right direction, but I don't just want a good result I want to see us actually play well with real conviction for 90 minutes, not desperately playing catch up or holding on to a lead.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 10, 2018 17:32:10 GMT
Another improved performance like last week, at least we are looking more like a team. An away point is always welcome, particularly against a team higher than us.
But the end product is still far from satisfactory. A sixth match with only one goal scored by a Stoke player from open play. Just 2 shots on target in 90 minute.
I still believe Rowett is just talk and no product.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 10, 2018 17:37:54 GMT
Another improved performance like last week, at least we are looking more like a team. An away point is always welcome, particularly against a team higher than us. But the end product is still far from satisfactory. A sixth match with only one goal scored by a Stoke player from open play. Just 2 shots on target in 90 minute. I still believe Rowett is just talk and no product. He's achieved nothing that Lambert couldn't have. With better players than Mumbles. That said, at least we don't look as calamitous at the back,as we did earlier in the season.
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Post by nott1 on Nov 10, 2018 18:45:46 GMT
I can't believe that Bojan wouldn't improve this team so for that reason Rowett must go!
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 10, 2018 20:32:13 GMT
Another improved performance like last week, at least we are looking more like a team. An away point is always welcome, particularly against a team higher than us. But the end product is still far from satisfactory. A sixth match with only one goal scored by a Stoke player from open play. Just 2 shots on target in 90 minute. I still believe Rowett is just talk and no product. He's achieved nothing that Lambert couldn't have. With better players than Mumbles. That said, at least we don't look as calamitous at the back,as we did earlier in the season. I give little credit to a manager for clearing up the mess he created in the first place. If there had been proper pre-season preparation and training we would not have been so "calamitous at the back". Instead it was left to the last minute to hire 2 Everton rejects.
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Post by stokeson on Nov 10, 2018 20:34:38 GMT
More HOT air!!!!!
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Nov 10, 2018 20:35:12 GMT
1 win in 5. 5 wins in 17. About 7 shots in the last 3 games is it?
It is so far below what everyone at the club targeted this season.
We won't put a few wins together under Rowett.
Nothing has changed for me, under Rowett we are performing far below our potential.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Nov 10, 2018 20:43:59 GMT
We really need to start winning games and getting a run of wins together.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 10, 2018 20:53:27 GMT
We really need to start winning games and getting a run of wins together. But to win matches you need to score goals. 2 or 3 shots on target per match is unlikely to win many at all. 6 Oct Norwich City 0 - 1 Stoke City 20 Oct Stoke City 0 - 1 Birmingham City 23 Oct Sheffield Utd 1 - 1 Stoke City 27 Oct Bristol City 0 - 1 Stoke City 3 Nov Stoke City 0 - 0 Middlesbrough 10 Nov Nottm Forest 0 - 0 Stoke City 1 goal scored by us from open play - Fletchers. What are we paying the forwards to do?
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Post by PotteringThrough on Nov 10, 2018 21:01:39 GMT
We really need to start winning games and getting a run of wins together. But to win matches you need to score goals. 2 or 3 shots on target per match is unlikely to win many at all. 6 Oct Norwich City 0 - 1 Stoke City 20 Oct Stoke City 0 - 1 Birmingham City 23 Oct Sheffield Utd 1 - 1 Stoke City 27 Oct Bristol City 0 - 1 Stoke City 3 Nov Stoke City 0 - 0 Middlesbrough 10 Nov Nottm Forest 0 - 0 Stoke City 1 goal scored by us from open play - Fletchers. What are we paying the forwards to do? That's for the manager to sort out, and he needs to get on with it.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 10, 2018 21:37:26 GMT
He's achieved nothing that Lambert couldn't have. With better players than Mumbles. That said, at least we don't look as calamitous at the back,as we did earlier in the season. I give little credit to a manager for clearing up the mess he created in the first place. If there had been proper pre-season preparation and training we would not have been so "calamitous at the back". Instead it was left to the last minute to hire 2 Everton rejects. Perfectly fair comment.
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Post by TexasPotter on Nov 11, 2018 5:26:20 GMT
I still want the wanker gone. How many games in is this? I've said this since week two. This Charlatan will not do "anything" at Stoke. I'd rather Delap run things on a quarter of the money spent.
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Post by Billy the kid on Nov 11, 2018 6:27:25 GMT
We really need to start winning games and getting a run of wins together. But to win matches you need to score goals. 2 or 3 shots on target per match is unlikely to win many at all. 6 Oct Norwich City 0 - 1 Stoke City 20 Oct Stoke City 0 - 1 Birmingham City 23 Oct Sheffield Utd 1 - 1 Stoke City 27 Oct Bristol City 0 - 1 Stoke City 3 Nov Stoke City 0 - 0 Middlesbrough 10 Nov Nottm Forest 0 - 0 Stoke City 1 goal scored by us from open play - Fletchers. What are we paying the forwards to do? Its all a bit binary
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Post by hanibal7 on Nov 11, 2018 7:05:59 GMT
Third!!!!! Motion carried????? Objection! I am a loyal fan of the club and have persistently supported our managers until I believed it was a hopeless cause and they needed to be removed to install some one better. I was happy with Rowett's appointment, which some say was just "15 matches ago", but actually 22nd May, 5 months ago. I watched his signings, pre-season, and opening matches with great patience. I dismissed the "instant" calls for his sacking, read comments like "wait till the proper matches start" during pre-season, "wait till 10 matches are played" during the early season. Sat and endured our trousers being pulled down by Leeds in the middle of the Leeds fans because I couldn't get a ticket from Stoke, and accepted defeat saying anyone would have struggled to match Leeds that day. I remained patient during the opening defeats and draws accepting it would take time to adjust to life in the Championship and for players to get to know each other's game. I was hearten by the Hull victory but not really convinced by the performance. I questioned why was it necessary to start playing well after we started losing a match, and why when we start well, as soon as the opposition score we go to pieces. The victory against Swansea kept me "on side" despite allowing Swansea to dominate part of the match and biting my nails that they would equalise at some point. My patience finally ran out at Rotherham when we again let a poor team take a 2 goal lead. I was delighted we fought back (you can see me jumping up and down in front of Bojan when he scored) but came to the conclusion Rowett is not motivating the side, who only really get truly motivated when losing, and our build up play is none existent, hence the paucity of goals from open play. Even the victories against Norwich and Bristol have been totally against the run of play; games where we miraculously avoided conceding goals. As I said at the top of this post, I am a loyal fan, am delighted when we get a good result and I know there have been some. I would be delighted to be proven wrong by Rowett, but all the evidence I have seen from our performances, tactics, team selection and substitutions indicate to me he is out of his depth. Our defending has been abysmal and a our goal scoring chance creation almost none existent. We cannot wait and see. It is vital we get back into the Prem this season and waiting to see if we qualify for the play-offs is not the right course of action. The play-offs are a cup competition and we know what our history in cup competitions is like, and Rowett showed last season he cannot manage play-offs. Next season we are certain to lose decent players like Butland, Etebo, Allen, Woods, and any of the players who come good, if we are not promoted. Most of our aged squad will another year into their 30s, so it is vital we go back up this season. I don't see any evidence that Rowett is the man to get this club promoted and we cannot afford just to wait and hope things get better. By better I mean better performances that will be the major determining factor on where we will finish in the league at the end of the season. So by your logic, if we started to play better, more players would attract the attention of bigger clubs.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 17, 2018 12:03:48 GMT
In the absence of any meaningful football, I have had another look at the stats for our season so far, having been prompted by a post which said we attacked more early in the season.
So did we attack more? No. The first 3 games we had less than 50 % possession, but did manage to get 5 shots on target in the first 2 matches but only 1 clear cut chance in each of the 3 matches.
Then we reached our nadir against Wigan with 54% possession, no shots on target and no clear cut chances.
We then had statistically our best run from Hull till Bolton, 7 matches when we had most possession, averaged 4.5 shots on target per match and 2 clear cut chances per match.
Next we had one of those matches that make nonsense of statistics against Norwich. 31% possession, 2 shots on target and no clear cut chances, but we won due to sound defending keeping Norwich down to 2 shots on target.
Since the Norwich match possession has fluctuated between 44 and 71% (against Birmingham!), and 1 to 4 shots on target, averaging 3.
What does stick out like a sore thumb is that since the Blackburn match, in 8 matches we have had just 3 clear cut goal scoring opportunities, i.e. a one on one position, close to goal when a player would be expected to score. It is hardly surprising our goal scoring has dried up.
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Post by heworksardtho on Nov 19, 2018 19:15:23 GMT
In the absence of any meaningful football, I have had another look at the stats for our season so far, having been prompted by a post which said we attacked more early in the season. So did we attack more? No. The first 3 games we had less than 50 % possession, but did manage to get 5 shots on target in the first 2 matches but only 1 clear cut chance in each of the 3 matches. Then we reached our nadir against Wigan with 54% possession, no shots on target and no clear cut chances. We then had statistically our best run from Hull till Bolton, 7 matches when we had most possession, averaged 4.5 shots on target per match and 2 clear cut chances per match. Next we had one of those matches that make nonsense of statistics against Norwich. 31% possession, 2 shots on target and no clear cut chances, but we won due to sound defending keeping Norwich down to 2 shots on target. Since the Norwich match possession has fluctuated between 44 and 71% (against Birmingham!), and 1 to 4 shots on target, averaging 3. What does stick out like a sore thumb is that since the Blackburn match, in 8 matches we have had just 3 clear cut goal scoring opportunities, i.e. a one on one position, close to goal when a player would be expected to score. It is hardly surprising our goal scoring has dried up. Spot on with everything you say , while we not conceding we are piss poor in attack
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 19:27:35 GMT
Got a feeling that we'll see a different team this week, both in terms of personnel and mentality.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 19:54:45 GMT
In the absence of any meaningful football, I have had another look at the stats for our season so far, having been prompted by a post which said we attacked more early in the season. So did we attack more? No. The first 3 games we had less than 50 % possession, but did manage to get 5 shots on target in the first 2 matches but only 1 clear cut chance in each of the 3 matches. Then we reached our nadir against Wigan with 54% possession, no shots on target and no clear cut chances. We then had statistically our best run from Hull till Bolton, 7 matches when we had most possession, averaged 4.5 shots on target per match and 2 clear cut chances per match. Next we had one of those matches that make nonsense of statistics against Norwich. 31% possession, 2 shots on target and no clear cut chances, but we won due to sound defending keeping Norwich down to 2 shots on target. Since the Norwich match possession has fluctuated between 44 and 71% (against Birmingham!), and 1 to 4 shots on target, averaging 3. What does stick out like a sore thumb is that since the Blackburn match, in 8 matches we have had just 3 clear cut goal scoring opportunities, i.e. a one on one position, close to goal when a player would be expected to score. It is hardly surprising our goal scoring has dried up. Great work the Mr Coke 👍 Not great reading though 😕
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Post by thevoid on Nov 19, 2018 20:03:31 GMT
Got a feeling that we'll see a different team this week, both in terms of personnel and mentality. I believe they're called QPR.
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Post by kustokie on Nov 20, 2018 3:37:32 GMT
Got a feeling that we'll see a different team this week, both in terms of personnel and mentality. I believe they're called QPR. QPR have won 5 of their last 6, Stoke have won 1. Not very encouraging, is it?
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Post by berahinosgoals on Nov 20, 2018 20:28:13 GMT
Its a good thing they are confident because they will come here looking for the 3 points leaving an open game and we should beat them if they do
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 20, 2018 21:11:00 GMT
The financial numbers published today , show how little room Rowett has 365 simply have to replace the lost revenue as quickly as possible , not to mention the advertising benefit of the premier league for a regulated industry .
He needs at least three points from these two games or as the play offs disappear over the horizon , he will be be offered up by pinky and perky as the reason for another failure , we all Know where a choice between manager and staff will end
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Post by bhp on Nov 20, 2018 22:04:20 GMT
The financial numbers published today , show how little room Rowett has 365 simply have to replace the lost revenue as quickly as possible , not to mention the advertising benefit of the premier league for a regulated industry . He needs at least three points from these two games or as the play offs disappear over the horizon , he will be be offered up by pinky and perky as the reason for another failure , we all Know where a choice between manager and staff will end The financial figures are hardly against the trend for recently relegated teams. More positives to take than negatives. 17 points from 11 games is just below play-off form and there has been disappointing performances in that period mixed with positive away results. We started the season scoring and struggling to keep clean sheets now it's vice versa. Proof that we can do both its just finding a balance, just a small tweak in personal like using Bojan more in home games for example could improve this balance.
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Post by mrred on Nov 21, 2018 10:04:43 GMT
Most teams don't spend the amount we have though. Given what he's spent, anything other than promotion this season is a massive failure and it'll continue to get worse the longer we're here. Given the way he's got us set up against most teams, I don't trust Rowett has the bollocks to get us up.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 21, 2018 10:10:07 GMT
Let's not kid ourselves, the Coates boys are nowhere near pulling the trigger but our 'average' start has piled the pressure on.
Failure to win on Saturday will see the crowd significantly turn I'd have thought.
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Post by mrred on Nov 21, 2018 10:22:05 GMT
I mean, he's already got done by Garrry fucking Monk, Tony Bowbray, a guy that's been in management for 5 minutes and some fat bloke from Wigan. If he get's done by Steve fucking McLaren I'm done.
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