|
Post by retired1 on Sept 23, 2018 18:28:03 GMT
Yeah sack him for stating the bleeding obvious and for saying what most people on here have been saying. The dressing room was gone before he got here.
|
|
|
Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 23, 2018 18:43:41 GMT
Rowett=Hunchback. We dont want the Hump,but are stuck with it,no matter how bad it is.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 23, 2018 19:04:42 GMT
Yes, before the recent spate of sackings and player fall outs I think we could rightly have claimed to have taken an upright and honorable approach to club employees, think the Rory Delap broken leg when we could have sent him back to his parent club, financial support with Matty Etherington's gambling woes, the Stephen Ireland contract extension following his hideous leg break. We cut both Pulis and Hughes some slack in their last couple of seasons when other boards may have pulled the trigger sooner. We were rewarded for some of it and some of it blew up in our faces. Where was Chris Kamara’s sacking on the rectitude scale?
|
|
|
Post by citynickscfc on Sept 23, 2018 20:02:09 GMT
As insightful as your posts usually are Gods I don't think this is how it works. I think we probably paid Hughes a severance payment but we simply continued to pay him his usual salary until he got another job (which he did swiftly) therefore I don't believe we paid all that much to get rid, basically whatever the severance agreement was + his regular pay? I think that's how it works? Lambert we got out of. This one would be similar. Severance + we pay him until he gets another job? I stand corrected if that's how managerial sackings work. I still contend we have way too much emotional pride and financial capital tied up in Rowett to dispatch him after 9 tepid performances. Our Board will hang tough on this one and go the distance. He is their man and they bust a gut to get him here. I can't be certain but there was 'chatter' or an understanding that it was the case as per Hughes, as when he took up his next job we would have stopped paying him whatever we were. I agree however that our board will wait until the club is in cinders (it isn't already??) And then look back, shrug shoulders and say we were unlucky. I'm hoping Rowett gets his way here, tells the pizza boys and the crap players where you stick and, and I hope that if he does fail he gets to do it his way. In that sense I applaud his recent statements no matter how unprofessional they seem. Let's see at the weekend. Forest is basically a chance to give a big chance to some subs. I hope they grasp it. Somehow I think we will loose 3-0 again, folding after the first.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Sept 23, 2018 20:26:12 GMT
Yes, before the recent spate of sackings and player fall outs I think we could rightly have claimed to have taken an upright and honorable approach to club employees, think the Rory Delap broken leg when we could have sent him back to his parent club, financial support with Matty Etherington's gambling woes, the Stephen Ireland contract extension following his hideous leg break. We cut both Pulis and Hughes some slack in their last couple of seasons when other boards may have pulled the trigger sooner. We were rewarded for some of it and some of it blew up in our faces. Where was Chris Kamara’s sacking on the rectitude scale? I don't know but I always wanted to use that word! Just looking on wiki to remind myself of that time. In between the 2nd coming of Lou and the arrival of Gudjon we dispatched 5 managers in 2 seasons, being Bates, Kamara, Durban, Little and Megson. We're already on our 3rd manager of 2018 our Board surely won't want to repeat that kind of carnage and introduce a 4th one before the calendar year is out, its no way to run a football club!
|
|
|
Post by enuntio on Sept 23, 2018 21:55:03 GMT
Sometimes it is best to be brutal
|
|
|
Post by stokieinaus on Sept 23, 2018 22:47:22 GMT
I don't believe we will sack him. he is contracted with us to 2021, we'd have to pay that off, we have already paid off his contract at Derby to 2021 so we are paying twice for him already in effect. if we sacked him we'd have to pay for a 3rd manager over the period 18-21, it would just be farcical. And don't forget we already paid Hughes off. We'd be getting 1 manager for the price of 4 over this period. Our reputation for continuity and financial and moral rectitude would be in tatters. We've made our bed and we're going to lie in it for a minimum of 2 seasons. For what it's worth I think he'll get there, if not this season then next. He may not be getting everything right but I don't underestimate his determination to grasp the nettle. Do I understand this correctly, if a company takes on an employee based on their ability to do a job, then the employee does not live up to expectations, the company must pay out their contract in order to get them out of the company? surely if someone is taking the piss then there must be some sort of clause to remove them, otherwise there will be numerous companies going broke over the coming years. Maybe im out of touch with the football world but this is just plain madness and suicidal.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Sept 23, 2018 23:26:50 GMT
I don't believe we will sack him. he is contracted with us to 2021, we'd have to pay that off, we have already paid off his contract at Derby to 2021 so we are paying twice for him already in effect. if we sacked him we'd have to pay for a 3rd manager over the period 18-21, it would just be farcical. And don't forget we already paid Hughes off. We'd be getting 1 manager for the price of 4 over this period. Our reputation for continuity and financial and moral rectitude would be in tatters. We've made our bed and we're going to lie in it for a minimum of 2 seasons. For what it's worth I think he'll get there, if not this season then next. He may not be getting everything right but I don't underestimate his determination to grasp the nettle. Do I understand this correctly, if a company takes on an employee based on their ability to do a job, then the employee does not live up to expectations, the company must pay out their contract in order to get them out of the company? surely if someone is taking the piss then there must be some sort of clause to remove them, otherwise there will be numerous companies going broke over the coming years. Maybe im out of touch with the football world but this is just plain madness and suicidal. Well my understanding, and I am no expert, is that Rowett is not a full time, permanent employee of the football club with holiday pay and generous pension arrangements and all the rest in the same way that say Tony Scholes or the groundsman or the club accountant is. We have signed a contract with Rowett for him to be our coach until 2021 just as Derby did. If we want to break that contract, unless we can prove he has broken the terms of the contract, then we're going to have to pay him off, ultimately to the tune of the remainder of the contract. I'm fairly sure there will be no clause in his contract which says 9 points from 9 games isn't good enough. So long as he has been fulfilling the role of being Stoke City manager he will not be in breech of contract. That's my understanding anyway, but I may be wrong, I often am!
|
|
|
Post by onefatcopper on Sept 24, 2018 0:11:41 GMT
Yes, before the recent spate of sackings and player fall outs I think we could rightly have claimed to have taken an upright and honorable approach to club employees, think the Rory Delap broken leg when we could have sent him back to his parent club, financial support with Matty Etherington's gambling woes, the Stephen Ireland contract extension following his hideous leg break. We cut both Pulis and Hughes some slack in their last couple of seasons when other boards may have pulled the trigger sooner. We were rewarded for some of it and some of it blew up in our faces. Where was Chris Kamara’s sacking on the rectitude scale? About three places lower than your average minimum measurement.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 1:01:28 GMT
just fucking sack him
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 1:03:55 GMT
He’ll get the boot, he’ll lose the players and his position will become untenable Any more interviews where he asks the fans to boo the players not him and he'll lose the dressing room quicker than he thinks. Someone ought to tell him this isn't Burton fucking Albion...
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Sept 24, 2018 1:40:00 GMT
Do I understand this correctly, if a company takes on an employee based on their ability to do a job, then the employee does not live up to expectations, the company must pay out their contract in order to get them out of the company? surely if someone is taking the piss then there must be some sort of clause to remove them, otherwise there will be numerous companies going broke over the coming years. Maybe im out of touch with the football world but this is just plain madness and suicidal. Well my understanding, and I am no expert, is that Rowett is not a full time, permanent employee of the football club with holiday pay and generous pension arrangements and all the rest in the same way that say Tony Scholes or the groundsman or the club accountant is. We have signed a contract with Rowett for him to be our coach until 2021 just as Derby did. If we want to break that contract, unless we can prove he has broken the terms of the contract, then we're going to have to pay him off, ultimately to the tune of the remainder of the contract. I'm fairly sure there will be no clause in his contract which says 9 points from 9 games isn't good enough. So long as he has been fulfilling the role of being Stoke City manager he will not be in breech of contract. That's my understanding anyway, but I may be wrong, I often am! I am sure his base salary is defined until 2021 with COLAs. I would be very surprised if there aren’t additional performance-based bonuses built in.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 2:10:51 GMT
We could sack him today.
Reasons why we couldn't? There aren't any.
Chew on that one Gods.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 2:26:48 GMT
We could sack him today. Reasons why we couldn't? There aren't any. You could sack him all day every day from now on till you die it still wouldnt mean a thing. GR's gonna be our boss until John and Peter Cpates decide otherwise, and they just don't know what the fuss is all about.
|
|
|
Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 24, 2018 6:57:23 GMT
We could sack him today. Reasons why we couldn't? There aren't any. You could sack him all day every day from now on till you die it still wouldnt mean a thing. GR's gonna be our boss until John and Peter Cpates decide otherwise, and they just don't know what the fuss is all about. I think they do this time
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 24, 2018 7:14:38 GMT
Where was Chris Kamara’s sacking on the rectitude scale? I don't know but I always wanted to use that word! Just looking on wiki to remind myself of that time. In between the 2nd coming of Lou and the arrival of Gudjon we dispatched 5 managers in 2 seasons, being Bates, Kamara, Durban, Little and Megson. We're already on our 3rd manager of 2018 our Board surely won't want to repeat that kind of carnage and introduce a 4th one before the calendar year is out, its no way to run a football club! Seems to be going ok for Watford...
|
|
|
Post by cousindupree on Sept 24, 2018 7:15:46 GMT
Rowett ticks all the boxes as a manager for Coates. In fact I think Coates believes he has found the new Tony Pulis...he might be right we will see. He won't be going anywhere unless we are in deep relegation shit in January, which even though we are a complete shambles on the pitch I think even Rowett can muster enough points to be safe. I can't say Rowett has actually done anything in his time here to convince me he has the managerial ability to get a team promoted from this league and as long as he remains the manager we will stumble along in mid-table. Prepare for a long stay at this level. The only way we will get back to the premier league is by a change of ownership and with it better recruitment, day to day running of the club and a new manager with higher credibility to attract players and a better tactical ability. Coates has achieved all that he wanted as owner...promotion, a cup final and a European adventure, quite a journey. So what's left for him, he's achieved as much as a club of our size could expect? I can't see us ever replicating that period again and I can't see Coates having the drive to achieve it as there is too much wrong with the club, a few better players isn't going to make a huge difference. The chairman, the CEO, the Director of Football and the Manager are all very much 2nd division in terms of their capability. Like many things in life they have found their level and it's where they will stay until major change happens....we will slowly get used once again to life at this level.
|
|
|
Post by 19notbeaten72 on Sept 24, 2018 7:25:26 GMT
The manner of that defeat on Saturday had the look of a team heading for another battle against relegation. Coates cannot make the same mistake twice by leaving it to late before getting rid of Rowett. If the next 2 games end in defeat he should be gone next weekend hopefully they have sounded someone out this time to avoid the circus we had after Hughes sacking.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Sept 24, 2018 8:36:38 GMT
I don't know but I always wanted to use that word! Just looking on wiki to remind myself of that time. In between the 2nd coming of Lou and the arrival of Gudjon we dispatched 5 managers in 2 seasons, being Bates, Kamara, Durban, Little and Megson. We're already on our 3rd manager of 2018 our Board surely won't want to repeat that kind of carnage and introduce a 4th one before the calendar year is out, its no way to run a football club! Seems to be going ok for Watford... And as you yourself sometimes point out on here Fulham got promoted after a similarly poor start.
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on Sept 24, 2018 8:42:26 GMT
He’ll get the boot, he’ll lose the players and his position will become untenable Any more interviews where he asks the fans to boo the players not him and he'll lose the dressing room quicker than he thinks. Aarrrr. What a shame for the players. Poor little players might get some stick. The manager has backed them idiots in defence for all the previous games. He says he's sick of drilling it into them all week in training, which they do correctly and well until match day.
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on Sept 24, 2018 8:44:06 GMT
Yeah sack him for stating the bleeding obvious and for saying what most people on here have been saying. The dressing room was gone before he got here. Exactly. I'm sick of modern players crying when their boss dares to be critical. Mourinho is having the same with his players, especially pogba. It won't be long before a player tries to sue his boss
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 8:45:55 GMT
You could sack him all day every day from now on till you die it still wouldnt mean a thing. GR's gonna be our boss until John and Peter Cpates decide otherwise, and they just don't know what the fuss is all about. I think they do this time On what basis? They haven't even issued him with a vote of confidence.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 24, 2018 8:55:33 GMT
Seems to be going ok for Watford... And as you yourself sometimes point out on here Fulham got promoted after a similarly poor start. Absolutely. They had good reason to believe in their manager coming good in the end. Hopefully ours will do likewise pretty quick...
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on Sept 24, 2018 11:24:50 GMT
After Saturday, Rowett has to make changes otherwise he is running a serious risk of being gone by Christmas. You can't just keep trying the same thing and expecting different results. We got lucky against Swansea and Hull were dross.
Ryan needs some time out of the team. It would help him re-focus and I'm sure it will make a better player of him. Joe Allen also needs dropping. Allen for me, has been as bad as any player this season. You can't throw in the odd decent performance and say "yeah that shows why he's worth keeping". He's been garbage. As bad as Ryan, if not worse.
Pieters is hanging on for grim life, but is another that could do with a rest.
|
|
|
Post by knowingeye on Sept 24, 2018 11:53:23 GMT
Whatever the price, stability is a prerequisite to build future success upon. I'm unsure when, or from where, such stability is coming.
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Sept 24, 2018 12:31:54 GMT
Rowett ticks all the boxes as a manager for Coates. In fact I think Coates believes he has found the new Tony Pulis...he might be right we will see. He won't be going anywhere unless we are in deep relegation shit in January, which even though we are a complete shambles on the pitch I think even Rowett can muster enough points to be safe. I can't say Rowett has actually done anything in his time here to convince me he has the managerial ability to get a team promoted from this league and as long as he remains the manager we will stumble along in mid-table. Prepare for a long stay at this level. The only way we will get back to the premier league is by a change of ownership and with it better recruitment, day to day running of the club and a new manager with higher credibility to attract players and a better tactical ability. Coates has achieved all that he wanted as owner...promotion, a cup final and a European adventure, quite a journey. So what's left for him, he's achieved as much as a club of our size could expect? I can't see us ever replicating that period again and I can't see Coates having the drive to achieve it as there is too much wrong with the club, a few better players isn't going to make a huge difference. The chairman, the CEO, the Director of Football and the Manager are all very much 2nd division in terms of their capability. Like many things in life they have found their level and it's where they will stay until major change happens....we will slowly get used once again to life at this level. You could make a point that off the pitch we remained 2nx division for our PL Tenure. Nothing seemed to change off the pitch whilst we were there. Apart from an increase in wages for players.
|
|
|
Post by mickmillslovechild on Sept 24, 2018 12:40:34 GMT
I don't believe we will sack him. he is contracted with us to 2021, we'd have to pay that off, we have already paid off his contract at Derby to 2021 so we are paying twice for him already in effect. if we sacked him we'd have to pay for a 3rd manager over the period 18-21, it would just be farcical. And don't forget we already paid Hughes off. We'd be getting 1 manager for the price of 4 over this period. Our reputation for continuity and financial and moral rectitude would be in tatters. We've made our bed and we're going to lie in it for a minimum of 2 seasons. For what it's worth I think he'll get there, if not this season then next. He may not be getting everything right but I don't underestimate his determination to grasp the nettle. Do I understand this correctly, if a company takes on an employee based on their ability to do a job, then the employee does not live up to expectations, the company must pay out their contract in order to get them out of the company? surely if someone is taking the piss then there must be some sort of clause to remove them, otherwise there will be numerous companies going broke over the coming years. Maybe im out of touch with the football world but this is just plain madness and suicidal. No it's simply a case that there isn't one standrd contract for every company that employs people. Why do people insist on thinking that because their employment contract states certain things, then that's the way it works for every profession in the world? I can guarantee that my employment contract is different from yours (e.g. as long as i do my job correctly i can't get sacked just because i'm not quite as good as they expected me to be. That's down to the person who hired me and their poor judgment if that was the case), which in turn is different from many other people's as well. It's not a new thing, if it was then we'd have seen players and managers getting "sacked" from clubs without any pay out left, right and centre for decades by now.
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Sept 24, 2018 12:40:59 GMT
We could sack him today. Reasons why we couldn't? There aren't any. Chew on that one Gods. There is one question. Who would replace him? Plenty of people on the Oatcake could do better. At least there are some good ideas on here, along with a lot BS!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 12:42:15 GMT
After Saturday, Rowett has to make changes otherwise he is running a serious risk of being gone by Christmas. You can't just keep trying the same thing and expecting different results. We got lucky against Swansea and Hull were dross. Ryan needs some time out of the team. It would help him re-focus and I'm sure it will make a better player of him. Joe Allen also needs dropping. Allen for me, has been as bad as any player this season. You can't throw in the odd decent performance and say "yeah that shows why he's worth keeping". He's been garbage. As bad as Ryan, if not worse. Pieters is hanging on for grim life, but is another that could do with a rest. 100%. If we weigh up all of this season's performances/results, we've not really been 'better' than anyone we've faced, barring Hull (utter shite) after they went down to 10 men, and half a game vs Sheff Weds. The valuable point we got at Preston was with hindsight, scraped vs a side now bottom of the table. Outside of that we've been matched or bettered, by every team we've come across.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 12:45:07 GMT
We could sack him today. Reasons why we couldn't? There aren't any. Chew on that one Gods. There is one question. Who would replace him? Plenty of people on the Oatcake could do better. At least there are some good ideas on here, along with a lot BS! You'd probably improve things instantly by playing a formation that actually worked, using players that actually work in it, and made the obviously-required personnel changes. The fucking kit-man could do that, and in theory, improve upon what we've seen so far.
|
|