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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 12:22:19 GMT
Martina is better than both. All about opinions but too me I don't see a noticeable improvement. My concern is the megaphone diplomacy, it's crap management comment on the poor defending, say you are going to have to make changes, make them for the next game and everyone can see who you were blaming. Conveniently it also stops anyone asking why saido did not start ahead of Diouf who had a relatively poor game v Swansea and was pretty much anonymous yesterday. Same here. I've not been impressed with Martina at all. I'm not sure what people have seen that's impressed them so much. He's more than played his part in a poor defensive unit, and I thought he was poor Saturday.
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Post by s7oke on Sept 24, 2018 12:26:45 GMT
All about opinions but too me I don't see a noticeable improvement. My concern is the megaphone diplomacy, it's crap management comment on the poor defending, say you are going to have to make changes, make them for the next game and everyone can see who you were blaming. Conveniently it also stops anyone asking why saido did not start ahead of Diouf who had a relatively poor game v Swansea and was pretty much anonymous yesterday. Same here. I've not been impressed with Martina at all. I'm not sure what people have seen that's impressed them so much. He's more than played his part in a poor defensive unit, and I thought he was poor Saturday. I agree with you both and that’s my opinion 👍
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 24, 2018 12:37:31 GMT
That is absolutely fucking insane. He might as well blame the groundsman for the pitch being too slick or the away dressing room being too comfy. Jesus, nobody likes to refer to the context of the discussion before wading in these days. The whole interview was heavily based on the performance of the defence, that changes needed to be made and then led on, though not explicitly stated, to the scarcity of options. At that point, the discussion turned to Bauer, one of the options, and Rowett explained exactly why he hadn't been in the side, that the day previously, he had Bauer in his office, told him he wanted the social media posts of this ilk to stop immediately and that he would be in the side for the forest game. Less than 24 hours later Bauer is on social media saying he's "working hard" when all he's done is a 20 minute warm up, basically announcing he's not in the side,completely flying in the face of what the manager has directly asked of him. It seems like nothing BUT, this sort of thing, and our recent managers lack of control of it has been a constant source of anger on here, now Rowett is putting his foot down and half the people who have (rightly) been slating the likes of Choupo, Jese, Wimmer for their idiocy are blaming the manager because they like Bauer! I agree, context is important. We have to take Rowett's word for it about the 20 minute warm up, don't we? The 'announcing he's not in the side' stuff is ludicrous, he was never going to be in the side? The manager has made it clear he doesn't rate Bauer and he's one of his many convenient scapegoats to absolve himself of responsibility.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Sept 24, 2018 13:18:52 GMT
Jesus, nobody likes to refer to the context of the discussion before wading in these days. The whole interview was heavily based on the performance of the defence, that changes needed to be made and then led on, though not explicitly stated, to the scarcity of options. At that point, the discussion turned to Bauer, one of the options, and Rowett explained exactly why he hadn't been in the side, that the day previously, he had Bauer in his office, told him he wanted the social media posts of this ilk to stop immediately and that he would be in the side for the forest game. Less than 24 hours later Bauer is on social media saying he's "working hard" when all he's done is a 20 minute warm up, basically announcing he's not in the side,completely flying in the face of what the manager has directly asked of him. It seems like nothing BUT, this sort of thing, and our recent managers lack of control of it has been a constant source of anger on here, now Rowett is putting his foot down and half the people who have (rightly) been slating the likes of Choupo, Jese, Wimmer for their idiocy are blaming the manager because they like Bauer! I agree, context is important. We have to take Rowett's word for it about the 20 minute warm up, don't we? The 'announcing he's not in the side' stuff is ludicrous, he was never going to be in the side? The manager has made it clear he doesn't rate Bauer and he's one of his many convenient scapegoats to absolve himself of responsibility.
To be fair Rob, you've just agreed how important context is, and then disagreed with that post on the basis on what you think and pure conjecture from thereon in.
People have been asking why Bauer wasn't included, Rowett has now told them because of a direct question and now you're saying "It's not true based on....well, what i think" just so you can then carry on slating him anyway. And on which of the several occasions where he said in his interview "I know i'm responsible....i know i'm still to blame....it's my fault for continuing to put faith in players etc etc" was he absolving himself of responsibility?
Not what i'd expect from you to be honest mate, reads more like a post from cheekymatt where you've ignored all the bits that don't fit what looks like an agenda, and then tried to re-write what he actually said in his interview.
All a bit playground really....he's been massively slated for not including Bauer or explaining why. He does then explain and people say "Well, i've now decided based on nothing whatsoever, that's just lying so then we can carry on slagging him off"
It's exactly right what stretfordpotter wrote. People were slating Imbula, Choupo etc because of the way they behaved but now seem to be coming up with every excuse possible on behalf of Bauer based on nothing other than the fact that they like him despite having nothing from Bauer himself to even dispute that what Rowett said was true.
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Post by Stretfordpotterer on Sept 24, 2018 13:24:19 GMT
Jesus, nobody likes to refer to the context of the discussion before wading in these days. The whole interview was heavily based on the performance of the defence, that changes needed to be made and then led on, though not explicitly stated, to the scarcity of options. At that point, the discussion turned to Bauer, one of the options, and Rowett explained exactly why he hadn't been in the side, that the day previously, he had Bauer in his office, told him he wanted the social media posts of this ilk to stop immediately and that he would be in the side for the forest game. Less than 24 hours later Bauer is on social media saying he's "working hard" when all he's done is a 20 minute warm up, basically announcing he's not in the side,completely flying in the face of what the manager has directly asked of him. It seems like nothing BUT, this sort of thing, and our recent managers lack of control of it has been a constant source of anger on here, now Rowett is putting his foot down and half the people who have (rightly) been slating the likes of Choupo, Jese, Wimmer for their idiocy are blaming the manager because they like Bauer! I agree, context is important. We have to take Rowett's word for it about the 20 minute warm up, don't we? The 'announcing he's not in the side' stuff is ludicrous, he was never going to be in the side? The manager has made it clear he doesn't rate Bauer and he's one of his many convenient scapegoats to absolve himself of responsibility. Context is everything. The comments on here are implying that what Rowett said was somehow said with reference to the Blackburn performance when that simply wasn't the case. No blame was attached to Bauer for the performance, what was said was that he needs to and will make changes for the upcoming games but that it "doesn't help" when someone who has been told they will be in the team for the Forest game, then goes and does something he's specifically been told not to do. Can't say i can blame him for not rating Bauer on the strength of what he has seen because he was woeful when he played. The previous manager didn't rate him enough to play him in his actual position. The announcing he's not in the side stuff was largely throwaway, he wasn't attaching any importance to it particularly but again said it "doesn't help" which of course, it doesn't. And if Bauer gets away with it, then who's to say the next time it's not a more surprising omission who feels like it's ok to announce he's not in the side hours before the team has been named? The culture of players thinking they can do and say what they like on social media needs to be nipped in the bud and fast. It caused endless problems last year and has continued into this year.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Sept 24, 2018 13:33:26 GMT
I agree, context is important. We have to take Rowett's word for it about the 20 minute warm up, don't we? The 'announcing he's not in the side' stuff is ludicrous, he was never going to be in the side? The manager has made it clear he doesn't rate Bauer and he's one of his many convenient scapegoats to absolve himself of responsibility. Context is everything. The comments on here are implying that what Rowett said was somehow said with reference to the Blackburn performance when that simply wasn't the case. No blame was attached to Bauer for the performance, what was said was that he needs to and will make changes for the upcoming games but that it "doesn't help" when someone who has been told they will be in the team for the Forest game, then goes and does something he's specifically been told not to do. Can't say i can blame him for not rating Bauer on the strength of what he has seen because he was woeful when he played. The previous manager didn't rate him enough to play him in his actual position. The announcing he's not in the side stuff was largely throwaway, he wasn't attaching any importance to it particularly but again said it "doesn't help" which of course, it doesn't. And if Bauer gets away with it, then who's to say the next time it's not a more surprising omission who feels like it's ok to announce he's not in the side hours before the team has been named? The culture of players thinking they can do and say what they like on social media needs to be nipped in the bud and fast. It caused endless problems last year and has continued into this year. Problems we've had for 2 years and 3 managers mate. Difference is that when Hughes ans Lambert called people out, those players were slated on here. Rowett does the same and it's all his fault and he's lying. Slag him off for not telling us why Bauer doesn't play, then slag him off when he does tell us. Rowett has PLENTY of faults as a manager, calling out a bad egg who's only making his own problems isn't one of them though. People thinking Bauer should get away with this and still get picked however, seem to be the same people who desperately want rid of prima donnas who get paid shitloads for doing sod all work...go figure!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 24, 2018 13:38:03 GMT
I agree, context is important. We have to take Rowett's word for it about the 20 minute warm up, don't we? The 'announcing he's not in the side' stuff is ludicrous, he was never going to be in the side? The manager has made it clear he doesn't rate Bauer and he's one of his many convenient scapegoats to absolve himself of responsibility. To be fair Rob, you've just agreed how important context is, and then disagreed with that post on the basis on what you think and pure conjecture from thereon in. People have been asking why Bauer wasn't included, Rowett has now told them because of a direct question and now you're saying "It's not true based on....well, what i think" just so you can then carry on slating him anyway. And on which of the several occasions where he said in his interview "I know i'm responsible....i know i'm still to blame....it's my fault for continuing to put faith in players etc etc" was he absolving himself of responsibility?
Not what i'd expect from you to be honest mate, reads more like a post from cheekymatt where you've ignored all the bits that don't fit what looks like an agenda, and then tried to re-write what he actually said in his interview. All a bit playground really....he's been massively slated for not including Bauer or explaining why. He does then explain and people say "Well, i've now decided based on nothing whatsoever, that's just lying so then we can carry on slagging him off"
It's exactly right what stretfordpotter wrote. People were slating Imbula, Choupo etc because of the way they behaved but now seem to be coming up with every excuse possible on behalf of Bauer based on nothing other than the fact that they like him despite having nothing from Bauer himself to even dispute that what Rowett said was true.
Afraid not Mick, you've misinterpreted what I actually wrote. I reject your slap on the wrist and disappointed face. I haven't stated it isn't true. I've stated we have no more reason to believe Rowett than Bauer. It might be true. It might not. The context was that in the aftermath of a defeat in which he contributed significantly to, Rowett lashed out at a player who wasn't even in the squad. His insinuation that it was some kind of advantage given to Mowbray regarding his team sheet is disingenuous in the extreme. I have no problem with Bauer being disciplined or criticised if he's flouting club discipline. It's the other stuff that leaves a nasty taste. And as I've posted more than once, he really hasn't taken responsibility. Saying it's your fault for being too trusting is painting yourself as a benevolent, disappointed patriarch let down by his charges. He's actually blaming the people he's had too much trust in.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 24, 2018 13:42:02 GMT
I agree that social media is absolute cancer to the game, but it's here to stay. Bauer was daft, but it sounds like Rowett is cutting his nose off to spite his face.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Sept 24, 2018 13:59:55 GMT
To be fair Rob, you've just agreed how important context is, and then disagreed with that post on the basis on what you think and pure conjecture from thereon in. People have been asking why Bauer wasn't included, Rowett has now told them because of a direct question and now you're saying "It's not true based on....well, what i think" just so you can then carry on slating him anyway. And on which of the several occasions where he said in his interview "I know i'm responsible....i know i'm still to blame....it's my fault for continuing to put faith in players etc etc" was he absolving himself of responsibility?
Not what i'd expect from you to be honest mate, reads more like a post from cheekymatt where you've ignored all the bits that don't fit what looks like an agenda, and then tried to re-write what he actually said in his interview. All a bit playground really....he's been massively slated for not including Bauer or explaining why. He does then explain and people say "Well, i've now decided based on nothing whatsoever, that's just lying so then we can carry on slagging him off"
It's exactly right what stretfordpotter wrote. People were slating Imbula, Choupo etc because of the way they behaved but now seem to be coming up with every excuse possible on behalf of Bauer based on nothing other than the fact that they like him despite having nothing from Bauer himself to even dispute that what Rowett said was true.
Afraid not Mick, you've misinterpreted what I actually wrote. I reject your slap on the wrist and disappointed face. I haven't stated it isn't true. I've stated we have no more reason to believe Rowett than Bauer. It might be true. It might not. The context was that in the aftermath of a defeat in which he contributed significantly to, Rowett lashed out at a player who wasn't even in the squad. His insinuation that it was some kind of advantage given to Mowbray regarding his team sheet is disingenuous in the extreme. I have no problem with Bauer being disciplined or criticised if he's flouting club discipline. It's the other stuff that leaves a nasty taste. And as I've posted more than once, he really hasn't taken responsibility. Saying it's your fault for being too trusting is painting yourself as a benevolent, disappointed patriarch let down by his charges. He's actually blaming the people he's had too much trust in. Personally i thought he made it quite clear that although they have continued let him down badly (which they have), he took full responsibility for continuing to pick them. Admittedly he's noticed it way too late (or far later than the rest of us anyway), but the proof of whether or not this is all spur of the moment lip service due to his anger at the time, or if he actually has learned from his undoubted mistakes will be seen in the next day or 2
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Sept 24, 2018 14:00:29 GMT
I agree that social media is absolute cancer to the game, but it's here to stay. Bauer was daft, but it sounds like Rowett is cutting his nose off to spite his face. He could have dealt with it much more appropriately/professionally. If Bauer broke some social media rule then he needs to be reprimanded but do it in house. Be the bigger man/leader. What he did was akin to calling Bauer a liar in public. He publicly singled out Shawcross for defensive errors. He encouraged fans to vent their anger on the defenders. He’s toast, no way back from that, it’ll catch up with him
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Post by metalhead on Sept 24, 2018 14:16:38 GMT
I agree that social media is absolute cancer to the game, but it's here to stay. Bauer was daft, but it sounds like Rowett is cutting his nose off to spite his face. He could have dealt with it much more appropriately/professionally. If Bauer broke some social media rule then he needs to be reprimanded but do it in house. Be the bigger man/leader. What he did was akin to calling Bauer a liar in public. He publicly singled out Shawcross for defensive errors. He encouraged fans to vent their anger on the defenders. He’s toast, no way back from that, it’ll catch up with him Certainly feels that way, doesn't it?
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Post by mattface on Sept 24, 2018 14:21:18 GMT
He could have dealt with it much more appropriately/professionally. If Bauer broke some social media rule then he needs to be reprimanded but do it in house. Be the bigger man/leader. What he did was akin to calling Bauer a liar in public. He publicly singled out Shawcross for defensive errors. He encouraged fans to vent their anger on the defenders. He’s toast, no way back from that, it’ll catch up with him Certainly feels that way, doesn't it? Or it gives the players the rocket they need - I'd say it's evens on which way it may go. The team and performance on Satdee should go some way to showing us.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 24, 2018 14:27:35 GMT
Certainly feels that way, doesn't it? Or it gives the players the rocket they need - I'd say it's evens on which way it may go. The team and performance on Satdee should go some way to showing us. Not Wednesday?
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Sept 24, 2018 15:02:59 GMT
Certainly feels that way, doesn't it? Or it gives the players the rocket they need - I'd say it's evens on which way it may go. The team and performance on Satdee should go some way to showing us. There may be a short term bounce but he’ll lose the trust of the players, it’ll be Saturdays media outburst not the performance that’ll ultimately cost him his job.
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Post by s7oke on Sept 24, 2018 17:57:11 GMT
Reguardless of if Rowett is wrong or right (that’s everyone’s personal opinion to decide) He still couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery !!!
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Post by s7oke on Sept 24, 2018 18:01:04 GMT
I agree that social media is absolute cancer to the game, but it's here to stay. Bauer was daft, but it sounds like Rowett is cutting his nose off to spite his face. He could have dealt with it much more appropriately/professionally. If Bauer broke some social media rule then he needs to be reprimanded but do it in house. Be the bigger man/leader. What he did was akin to calling Bauer a liar in public. He publicly singled out Shawcross for defensive errors. He encouraged fans to vent their anger on the defenders. He’s toast, no way back from that, it’ll catch up with him Correct he’s just deflecting the blame to someone else !! Ask any Derby fan who goes regularly and they will tell you he did the same there !!! Some I speak to say he reminds them of Billy Davies bloody useless but talks a good fight and is always waiting for the next pay off for being shit !
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Post by mattface on Sept 24, 2018 18:30:34 GMT
Or it gives the players the rocket they need - I'd say it's evens on which way it may go. The team and performance on Satdee should go some way to showing us. Not Wednesday? There were always likely to be changes Wednesday - Satdee is the bread and butter
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 24, 2018 18:33:49 GMT
I agree that social media is absolute cancer to the game, but it's here to stay. Bauer was daft, but it sounds like Rowett is cutting his nose off to spite his face. He could have dealt with it much more appropriately/professionally. If Bauer broke some social media rule then he needs to be reprimanded but do it in house. Be the bigger man/leader. What he did was akin to calling Bauer a liar in public. He publicly singled out Shawcross for defensive errors. He encouraged fans to vent their anger on the defenders. He’s toast, no way back from that, it’ll catch up with him With regards to the venting the anger at defenders comment, it's very possible he actually meant the other players are not doing too bad they don't deserve the booing, the words just come across wrong
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Sept 24, 2018 18:43:46 GMT
He could have dealt with it much more appropriately/professionally. If Bauer broke some social media rule then he needs to be reprimanded but do it in house. Be the bigger man/leader. What he did was akin to calling Bauer a liar in public. He publicly singled out Shawcross for defensive errors. He encouraged fans to vent their anger on the defenders. He’s toast, no way back from that, it’ll catch up with him With regards to the venting the anger at defenders comment, it's very possible he actually meant the other players are not doing too bad they don't deserve the booing, the words just come across wrong Yea possibly, it’s also possible he meant, I don’t understand why you are booing me, don’t you know it’s the players fault, boo the players when they underperform!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 19:39:45 GMT
Bauer is the best fullback at the club by some distance, it’s madness he doesn’t make the squad let alone the starting 11.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 24, 2018 20:53:41 GMT
Gary Rowett -so many parallels to brian clough and his short time at 'the damned United'.
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Post by jezzascfc on Sept 24, 2018 21:05:53 GMT
Gary Rowett -so many parallels to brian clough and his short time at 'the damned United'. True, save that Cloughie went in to manage a team that was winning trophies, whereas Rowett has come into a miserable failure of a team.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Sept 24, 2018 21:09:44 GMT
I can’t work out what battle Rowett is trying to win here. Bauer at the very least should be in the match day squad and probably even one of the first names on the team sheet. For Rowett to then carry on complaining about our defending when he has an annexed Moritz Bauer to consider is a complete fucking farce as far as I’m concerned. Bauer didn’t start the season well, admittedly, but seeing as though the outright wank defending has continued since he was axed surely means he deserves as many chances as the other fuckers have had.
Instead, he’s been treated like a kid who’s been promised a cake if he behaves himself and now he’s stepped out of line he’s been told to forget playing against Forest in the cup which, fucking idiotically, could harm our chances of progressing.
It’s a complete load of fucking bollocks. Bauer taking to social media maybe wasn’t the greatest idea but I would argue he’s not being treated on a level playing field to the others and I’m not surprised he’s annoyed that his manager has written him off after, essentially, two days at work.
Bauer and Bojan remain outcasts while the likes of Pieters, Allen and McClean seemingly get away with being twice as fucking bad.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 21:13:17 GMT
I’d 100% start Bauer vs Forest.
He’s got a point to prove, and this Cup game is perfect. If he plays and takes his chance, then this outcast nonsense can stop.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 24, 2018 21:18:52 GMT
I’d 100% start Bauer vs Forest. He’s got a point to prove, and this Cup game is perfect. If he plays and takes his chance, then this outcast nonsense can stop. I would too. Gaz goin on about a tweet after losing a big game makes him seem unhinged. Is he making team selections based on tweets??
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Sept 24, 2018 21:58:18 GMT
I’d 100% start Bauer vs Forest. He’s got a point to prove, and this Cup game is perfect. If he plays and takes his chance, then this outcast nonsense can stop. I would too. Gaz goin on about a tweet after losing a big game makes him seem unhinged. Is he making team selections based on tweets?? The tweet wasn’t even bad! It simply made a light hearted joke off what was written on the wall behind him “Are you tired?” And his response “I’m f**kin exhausted” with a thumbs up... after he had finished training... That’s how I saw it before the Rowett explosion... I’m still trying to get round my head what he had actually done wrong? After all it was nothing like his tweet a few weeks ago where he was justified in being bollocked for being close to the bone with his disappointment for not being included.... nothing of the sort this time..
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Post by elystokie on Sept 24, 2018 22:35:53 GMT
I would too. Gaz goin on about a tweet after losing a big game makes him seem unhinged. Is he making team selections based on tweets?? The tweet wasn’t even bad! It simply made a light hearted joke off what was written on the wall behind him “Are you tired?” And his response “I’m f**kin exhausted” with a thumbs up... after he had finished training... That’s how I saw it before the Rowett explosion... I’m still trying to get round my head what he had actually done wrong? After all it was nothing like his tweet a few weeks ago where he was justified in being bollocked for being close to the bone with his disappointment for not being included.... nothing of the sort this time.. I think/hope GR has had it pointed out to him by a member of his staff and felt the need to deflect during the interview, bizarre and makes him look very unprofessional. I find it hard to believe Rowetts got time to fuck about on social media on a match day.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 22:43:24 GMT
James McLean was doing a work out on Sunday according to his instagram...is that allowed...this is all a bit confusing...
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Post by madnellie on Sept 24, 2018 23:56:46 GMT
I would too. Gaz goin on about a tweet after losing a big game makes him seem unhinged. Is he making team selections based on tweets?? The tweet wasn’t even bad! It simply made a light hearted joke off what was written on the wall behind him “Are you tired?” And his response “I’m f**kin exhausted” with a thumbs up... after he had finished training... That’s how I saw it before the Rowett explosion... I’m still trying to get round my head what he had actually done wrong? After all it was nothing like his tweet a few weeks ago where he was justified in being bollocked for being close to the bone with his disappointment for not being included.... nothing of the sort this time.. I thought the same, just a joke about the sign.
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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 25, 2018 1:09:22 GMT
So, to summarise:
We signed Bauer for a good fee. He played the last of the Premiership and most people thought he played really well. He decided to stay with Stoke even ahead of relegation. Lambert – who had demonstrated that he wouldn’t hesitate of dropping players to the U-23 scrap. The new manager didn’t have a problem during pre-season and the start of the season. The manager then dropped Bauer – even though pretty much every player (including Butland FFS) at the start of the season. The manager puts Bauer to be the U-23 squad. Bauer then goes onto Facebook (or equivalent) that he is training well, but he won’t be in the next match (no shit Sherlock). The manager public ally criticises Bauer about going onto social media (like other footballers don’t do that), only trained for 20 mins (as we haven’t heard that Bauer didn’t walk out of training, we must assume that the coaches had only required the players to 20 minutes training ahead of the next day’s game), and that Bauer wasn’t to be allowed to play games again. Therefore: What the fuck. Seriously that is how the manager should behave: The manager shouldn’t be public ally having a go at any players, What has Bauer actually done? Worse case would be a quite chat between the two. If Bauer has done something serious, then the manager should explain if he is going to criticise Bauer in public. The manager has wasted a shit load of money: We spent £5 on Bauer, plus his contract for 5 years @ say £25k/week for 5 years = £11 million. How much we could get back is a guess. We would also add in the lad from Everton will cost the club at least an extra £1 million I’d estimate. I wonder if the owners will be happy with this?
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