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Post by gingerninja on Sept 23, 2018 10:57:29 GMT
I think we could change all the back four from Saturday if I am honest. We need a leader as a captain, would be a massive shout but I would give it to Woods moving forward, that will upset the apple cart and I am sure Ryan still has massive influence within club..would be a massive decision on Rowetts part to do such though..
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Post by jontimmis on Sept 23, 2018 11:13:27 GMT
I do think it’s all a bit comfortable. Ryan needs to be dropped and I’d take the captaincy off him, I don’t see his leadership at all. He points a lot...
I’ve just watched the goals back, inside passes between defenders, to be fair Indi hasn’t covered himself in glory at all his positioning is woeful.
The annoying thing is, we as fans knew we weren’t strong enough defensively. So there really shouldn’t be any surprises..... I hate to say it but would Wimmer be any worse??
It’s a sad state of affairs to be perfectly honest, I do blame Rowett because Williams isn’t exactly cut out for this level. All our defenders struggle with runners, and it needs youth and some pace.
I said before the Sheff weds game on another thread, we are going have to score at least 2 goals a game to compete....
I mean what is the solution? Our best form of defence as far as I can see it, is attack and therefore play two up top!!!!
You have to play to your strengths, we don’t have many, but we always look a threat and give the other teams problems when we are progressive....
I do fear for us to be honest.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 23, 2018 11:37:20 GMT
I just can't get my head around the fact that the fans and surely the club have known we needed a whole new back for for nearly 2 years now, and three of them are still starting. Weren't loads on here saying our defence would piss this league?
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Post by shipshape on Sept 23, 2018 11:42:41 GMT
I just can't get my head around the fact that the fans and surely the club have known we needed a whole new back for for nearly 2 years now, and three of them are still starting. Weren't loads on here saying our defence would piss this league? Bizarrely yes. Including some of the few who occasionally make sense.
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Post by chuckrocky on Sept 23, 2018 11:56:38 GMT
There were two things Ryan did yesterday that pissed me off more than his part in their goals.
Their first goal came following a throw in that Ryan gave away that was completely preventable. The ball was running out for a goal kick, any half competent defender would have held the attacker off and let the ball go for a goal kick. Alternatively he could have twatted the ball against their attacker and won a goal kick or a throw in, or even cleared the ball away further up the pitch. Instead he decides to put the ball out of play right by our corner flag. Less than a minute later we’re a goal down.
Secondly, just after we’ve scored the second goal and have really got them under the pump, he decides to rugby tackle their striker about two seconds after the ball has gone, giving them the opportunity to take the sting out of things and kill any momentum we had. It was probably the most brainless bit of play of the day.
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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on Sept 23, 2018 12:08:29 GMT
We're sitting here discussing how poor our centre halves have been and see James Collins as the answer. Unbelievable Geoff
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 23, 2018 12:35:39 GMT
There were two things Ryan did yesterday that pissed me off more than his part in their goals. Their first goal came following a throw in that Ryan gave away that was completely preventable. The ball was running out for a goal kick, any half competent defender would have held the attacker off and let the ball go for a goal kick. Alternatively he could have twatted the ball against their attacker and won a goal kick or a throw in, or even cleared the ball away further up the pitch. Instead he decides to put the ball out of play right by our corner flag. Less than a minute later we’re a goal down. Secondly, just after we’ve scored the second goal and have really got them under the pump, he decides to rugby tackle their striker about two seconds after the ball has gone, giving them the opportunity to take the sting out of things and kill any momentum we had. It was probably the most brainless bit of play of the day. Yes mate I noticed both those incidents. Didn't realise how close the throw in was to the first goal. He could even have touched it back to Butland if it's the one I'm thinking about. I think the problem is now his lack of pace and flexibility. He's a bit like a tree trunk. He's still strong in the air but anything that requires any explosive movement or twisting and turning and he just can't hack it. It looks a bit like I'm sure I look at 58 playing 5 aside against my lads who are in their 20's.
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Post by iglugluk on Sept 23, 2018 12:42:19 GMT
I just can't get my head around the fact that the fans and surely the club have known we needed a whole new back for for nearly 2 years now, and three of them are still starting. Weren't loads on here saying our defence would piss this league? Only those who'd conveniently forgotten about Bristol City reserves and Coventry.
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Post by eriksson74 on Sept 23, 2018 12:42:24 GMT
Ryan's "massive influence" is a worry, it's no coincidence that 3 managers are not able to get a tune or response out of our so called "premier league" players.A captain should help control a dressing room as well as lead and theres no evidence of either.
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Post by iglugluk on Sept 23, 2018 12:57:24 GMT
Shawcross has been a great servant to the club but he has been in decline ever since he got the back injury, as far as I'm concerned. It has been obvious that the defence has not been fit for purpose for a long time now. Hughes started the rot when he got rid of Huth and then we brought in Wolsheid and it's been downhill since then. Lambert only shored up the defence by sacrificing the ability to effectively attack and Rowett has either been stymied by the transfer team or he's guilty of not seeing what were clear and obvious issues. Too late to change it for this season, unfortunately it seems to me, and that's down to dysfunctional club structure and internal politics, it seems.
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Post by milky on Sept 23, 2018 13:03:09 GMT
I just feel the time is right now for him to be eased out with his dignity just about still intact.
I want to remember Ryan Shawcross as the player who went toe to toe with the likes of Suarez, Aguero, Van Persie, Drogba and Costa and not for being run ragged by the likes of Danny Graham and Steven Fletcher.
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Post by mozzer on Sept 23, 2018 13:18:23 GMT
Talking to a Man. United supporter many years ago I got the impression that Ferguson looked on players at 30 plus as being in their way out of the club the minute they started to under-perform. It worked for him: "We identified three levels of players: 30 and older, 23 to 30, and the younger ones. The idea was that the younger players were developing and would meet the standards the older ones had set. I believe that the cycle of a successful team lasts maybe four years and then some change is needed." www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/10/alex-ferguson-manchester-united-blueprintWe have kept too many older players for too long instead of moving them on. Walters went because he couldn't get the extension to his contract that he wanted and now spends his time sitting on the bench at Burnley, which tells you something. We have too many underperforming players at all levels in the club and it will take some time to rid these out and re-balance the squad. Unfortunately I still see Division One as a possibility. What???? Jon Walters is at Ipswich mate
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Post by Absolution on Sept 23, 2018 13:46:51 GMT
Weren't loads on here saying our defence would piss this league? Only those who'd conveniently forgotten about Bristol City reserves and Coventry. At the time I think most were happy to pin the blame for that (and all the four-goal thumpings) on the organisational skills of Hughes and his coaching team, rather than the players.
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Post by kustokie on Sept 23, 2018 13:49:04 GMT
Rip it up and start again. Edwards, Williams, Souttar, Bauer new back four in a 4-2-3-1 Woods Clucas Ince Bojan Etebo Berahino Clucas is weeks maybe months from being available. We are stuck with the headless chicken for awhile.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 13:54:20 GMT
There were two things Ryan did yesterday that pissed me off more than his part in their goals. Their first goal came following a throw in that Ryan gave away that was completely preventable. The ball was running out for a goal kick, any half competent defender would have held the attacker off and let the ball go for a goal kick. Alternatively he could have twatted the ball against their attacker and won a goal kick or a throw in, or even cleared the ball away further up the pitch. Instead he decides to put the ball out of play right by our corner flag. Less than a minute later we’re a goal down. Secondly, just after we’ve scored the second goal and have really got them under the pump, he decides to rugby tackle their striker about two seconds after the ball has gone, giving them the opportunity to take the sting out of things and kill any momentum we had. It was probably the most brainless bit of play of the day. I commented on this at the game. Why he didn't just shield the ball and let it run out for a goal kick I'll never know. He was twice the size as the player with him. He has a habit of kicking it out for no reason. The second is because let's be honest he's thick. You can tell that whenever he talks.
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Post by robboleek on Sept 23, 2018 18:28:58 GMT
Really can’t see the harm in giving it to Woods, he talked more in the first 5 minutes yesterday than Ryan has in the last 2 seasons! He is new and it maybe a message that this is the way it is going to be ! We need to graft not sit back and think this league will be a walk in the park......
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 9:41:15 GMT
Rowett has just said he's "shown too much faith in some players".. That's got to be Ryan he's on about surely?! Btw, yet again Bruno was utterly woeful next to him. I honestly think that half of Ryan's problems are caused by Bruno. He'd be the first I'd bench. The problem is who would we replace him with cus Williams shouldn't be an option. Ryan has these problems regardless of who his defensive partner is, the finger has been pointed at everyone but him for a few years now, players have moved on and we still have the same problems.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Sept 24, 2018 9:45:04 GMT
Lambert sorted the defence, Rowett can't, he is the main person the club are putting too much faith in. He is clueless, We repeatedly conceded goals from leading and drawing positions under Lambert and hardly won any matches. We just didn't concede over 2 goals very often. Spot on. This "Lambert sorted the defence" idea is a myth. It wasn't as utterly inept as it had been, but the idea that he'd "sorted it" is laughable.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Sept 24, 2018 9:46:31 GMT
Thanks for everything Ryan. Club legend. The three fuckers next to you should turn it in as well. Sorry Momo. I need to see replays, was Ryan personally at fault with any of the goals, was his play a contributing factor of an6 of the goals? It just seems (as normal) supporters have their targets (justified or not) for failure Yes he was! If you do watch it back you'll see that yourself
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 24, 2018 9:47:45 GMT
He was never truly given the time he needed to recover from his back injury IMO. We took the easy option and being honest he hasn't been the same player since.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 24, 2018 9:48:50 GMT
We repeatedly conceded goals from leading and drawing positions under Lambert and hardly won any matches. We just didn't concede over 2 goals very often. Spot on. This "Lambert sorted the defence" idea is a myth. It wasn't as utterly inept as it had been, but the idea that he'd "sorted it" is laughable. If by "sorting it" people mean he completely eliminated any attacking threat we carried, when we needed to win games, they're right.
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Post by Old School Stokie on Sept 24, 2018 10:00:16 GMT
When the grappling was stopped, and Pulis left having provided double midfield cover for the back four & Huth went, Shawcross was fucked. Yes that long ago, nothing to do with his back. If anything he's played on that back and just taken the money for too long. He could never play football, he either passes sideways or back or just Hoofs it up. No finesse - we owe him nothing as he's drawn a kings ransom off stoke for too long. At last people realise it including the manager
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Post by salopstick on Sept 24, 2018 10:53:51 GMT
Collins needs to be signed tonight and give him the Forest cup match to get minutes in him because ShawWank can’t be given another minute in a stoke shirt ( and he is a stoke legend) but its game over now Ryan nor to BMI either, a complete joke of a so called centre back. Regardless of a lot of things “shawwank” is probably one of the most disrespectful thing I’ve ever saw on here about one of our current and one of our best ever players
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 10:57:06 GMT
Collins needs to be signed tonight and give him the Forest cup match to get minutes in him because ShawWank can’t be given another minute in a stoke shirt ( and he is a stoke legend) but its game over now Ryan nor to BMI either, a complete joke of a so called centre back. Regardless of a lot of things “shawwank” is probably one of the most disrespectful thing I’ve ever saw on here about one of our current and one of our best ever players Correct. Anyone going above the levels of common decency to a man who has served us as well and as professionally as any player during our entire history need to have a fucking word with themselves......
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Post by danceswithclams on Sept 24, 2018 11:30:24 GMT
Regardless of a lot of things “shawwank” is probably one of the most disrespectful thing I’ve ever saw on here about one of our current and one of our best ever players The Shawank Redemption is one of my favourite films.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 24, 2018 11:37:51 GMT
Collins needs to be signed tonight and give him the Forest cup match to get minutes in him because ShawWank can’t be given another minute in a stoke shirt ( and he is a stoke legend) but its game over now Ryan nor to BMI either, a complete joke of a so called centre back. I know you’ve mellowed with age Jarhead but to me that’s totally out of order about a club legend.Then again you have form with another club legend I seem to remember when describing Rory as “Rory Decrap” many moons ago.A little bit of respect is needed towards club legends
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Sept 24, 2018 11:54:37 GMT
Regardless of a lot of things “shawwank” is probably one of the most disrespectful thing I’ve ever saw on here about one of our current and one of our best ever players Correct. Anyone going above the levels of common decency to a man who has served us as well and as professionally as any player during our entire history need to have a fucking word with themselves...... Whilst i agree that it's time for him to be replaced (or at the very least given a long break), to start calling him things like that is pathetic. Age catches up with everyone in every profession and has with Ryan unfortunately. That doesn't suddenly negate or wipe clear everything that he's done for us in the past and for many years he's been nothing but superb on the pitch and a consumate professional for the club. One of the very few players in my lifetime who will be rightly and justly known as a club legend for decades to come.
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Post by Davef on Sept 24, 2018 15:56:28 GMT
Regardless of a lot of things “shawwank” is probably one of the most disrespectful thing I’ve ever saw on here about one of our current and one of our best ever players Correct. Anyone going above the levels of common decency to a man who has served us as well and as professionally as any player during our entire history need to have a fucking word with themselves...... Are you all that surprised?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 16:07:21 GMT
Correct. Anyone going above the levels of common decency to a man who has served us as well and as professionally as any player during our entire history need to have a fucking word with themselves...... Are you all that surprised? Not one little bit.....
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Post by rawli on Sept 24, 2018 16:25:49 GMT
Collins needs to be signed tonight and give him the Forest cup match to get minutes in him because ShawWank can’t be given another minute in a stoke shirt ( and he is a stoke legend) but its game over now Ryan nor to BMI either, a complete joke of a so called centre back. Regardless of a lot of things “shawwank” is probably one of the most disrespectful thing I’ve ever saw on here about one of our current and one of our best ever players Agree. Pathetic and embarrassing.
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