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Post by jezzascfc on Sept 16, 2018 23:11:09 GMT
I would drop both and play 3 at the back - perm any 3 from Martina, Williams, Martins Indi and Pieters. Bauer and McClean/Clucas (when fit - til then I guess Erik) wing backs, Woods and Etebo in between them, Ince and Bojan (Saido as an alternative) supporting Afobe.
Both are honking with the stench of relegation and lack of confidence and form, and Ryan has the laboured gait of a man with a bad back. We need a new leader and new backbone of the team.
I'd even consider James Collins as an extra teak tough, experienced centre back. More gingerness too!
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Post by tomcmod on Sept 16, 2018 23:15:20 GMT
Where is the insanity of putting Martina in the middle come from? He is a good full back, but positionally he is all over the place and I think I have seen him head the ball once(maybe twice) in all his games. Shawcross played better against Wednesday and is better having a player in front of him who actually wants the ball!!(Woods) Insanity? You should try reading the post again ... SLOWLY. I clearly said that there was no obvious replacement for Ryan, the only POSSIBLE one I could suggest was MAYBE Martina, as he has PLAYED THERE BEFORE. And the entire thrust of my post was about how difficult it would be to replace Ryan but how easy it would be to replace Allen. You aren't the only one who has said this is what I was getting at. Also you are actually suggesting it though...so explain where I am wrong for saying the suggestion is ludicrous? Most players play in different positions throughout their career, doesn't make them good at it. As I said about Shawcross though he looked better, kept the ball and he didn't make a defensive mistake. Shawcross completing the most passes with over 90% accuracy. Also Allen looked more comfortable with Etebo and Woods, his movement also helped create space. He did though make a stupid tackle which proved very costly.
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Post by jezzascfc on Sept 16, 2018 23:18:39 GMT
Insanity? You should try reading the post again ... SLOWLY. I clearly said that there was no obvious replacement for Ryan, the only POSSIBLE one I could suggest was MAYBE Martina, as he has PLAYED THERE BEFORE. And the entire thrust of my post was about how difficult it would be to replace Ryan but how easy it would be to replace Allen. You aren't the only one who has said this is what I was getting at. Also you are actually suggesting it though...so explain where I am wrong for saying the suggestion is ludicrous? Most players play in different positions throughout their career, doesn't make them good at it. As I said about Shawcross though he looked better, kept the ball and he didn't make a defensive mistake. Shawcross completing the most passes with over 90% accuracy. Also Allen looked more comfortable with Etebo and Woods, his movement also helped create space. He did though make a stupid tackle which proved very costly. Allen looked a little boy lost to me, cost us possession often, ran around to no great effect and then there was "that" challenge. I have no doubt that Saido or Bojan playing as a number 10 would have had a far more positive impact on our performance.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 16, 2018 23:19:54 GMT
The irony being, that the two players who are Rowett's first two names on the (outfield) team sheet are also the first two players who should be bombed out of the side. We don't really have an obvious replacement for Ryan (maybe Martina, with Bauer coming back in?) but to keep Allen in the team at the expense of a number 10 is absolutely scandalous. Will Rowett drop him though? N-O-T A C-H-A-N-C-E If it gets to the point where he realises its either that or he loses his job (OK not an immediate issue) then surely he'd do it I'm guessing it'll be far too late by then ...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 16, 2018 23:22:28 GMT
Insanity? You should try reading the post again ... SLOWLY. I clearly said that there was no obvious replacement for Ryan, the only POSSIBLE one I could suggest was MAYBE Martina, as he has PLAYED THERE BEFORE. And the entire thrust of my post was about how difficult it would be to replace Ryan but how easy it would be to replace Allen. You aren't the only one who has said this is what I was getting at. Also you are actually suggesting it though...so explain where I am wrong for saying the suggestion is ludicrous? Most players play in different positions throughout their career, doesn't make them good at it. As I said about Shawcross though he looked better, kept the ball and he didn't make a defensive mistake. Shawcross completing the most passes with over 90% accuracy. Also Allen looked more comfortable with Etebo and Woods, his movement also helped create space. He did though make a stupid tackle which proved very costly. If you still don't get it, after I've spelled it out to you a second time, I'm certainly not going to waste anymore time trying again.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 16, 2018 23:26:38 GMT
Why what will happen if we don’t🤔 All sorts of bad shit. I think Rowett needs a win or it could start to turn nasty. For the money spent, it's not acceptable at the moment. With this defence he hasn't got a chance.
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Post by tomcmod on Sept 16, 2018 23:48:33 GMT
You aren't the only one who has said this is what I was getting at. Also you are actually suggesting it though...so explain where I am wrong for saying the suggestion is ludicrous? Most players play in different positions throughout their career, doesn't make them good at it. As I said about Shawcross though he looked better, kept the ball and he didn't make a defensive mistake. Shawcross completing the most passes with over 90% accuracy. Also Allen looked more comfortable with Etebo and Woods, his movement also helped create space. He did though make a stupid tackle which proved very costly. Allen looked a little boy lost to me, cost us possession often, ran around to no great effect and then there was "that" challenge. I have no doubt that Saido or Bojan playing as a number 10 would have had a far more positive impact on our performance. I get what you are saying but he is on for the defensive side aswell. I can't imagine either of them 2 getting that far back to try and put a tackle in. I'd give the same team another go against Swansea, just have to cut out the mistakes. We could have scored 6/7 on another day with our chances.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2018 23:53:59 GMT
If Ryan doesn’t feature, whoever is selected as captain will reveal a lot re Rowetts plans No it won't, because Butland is our third choice captain. The second is Fletcher.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Sept 17, 2018 5:38:43 GMT
Bruno can get away with anything with some of you lot, astounding. There's a good player in there as we saw when he was on loan. I'm not sure why we've not seeing it since mind. Was he that good?! I was never convinced even then. I just think his cause was helped due to who he was replacing and the fact the rest of the team were shite at the time whilst he was just "okay". I'm only really going for Bruno atm because Ryan seems to be getting criticised by everyone when I honestly think the bloke next to him is worse and along with Allen, would've been the first players to be sold in the summer if I was in charge. In any case, I do think he should be good enough to play at this level competently.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 17, 2018 6:10:37 GMT
All sorts of bad shit. I think Rowett needs a win or it could start to turn nasty. For the money spent, it's not acceptable at the moment. With this defence he hasn't got a chance. He's had 21 million chances.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 6:12:24 GMT
I'd leave the midfield three as is and use the one behind a striker for when we need to change a game.
I thought we played well at the weekend and thought the inclusion of Woods in that three changed the entire dynamic. Previously the support to Afobe with that system was non existent but with Woods playing football through midfield it was fine.
I don't think either centre half is covering themselves in glory right now but the one to drop is Bruno. Bring in Williams and hope he doesn't have another brain fart.
Allen I'd leave in until Clucas is fit at least, else we are looking at Fletcher or Adam. No thanks.
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Post by adamsson on Sept 17, 2018 8:09:58 GMT
I'd leave the midfield three as is and use the one behind a striker for when we need to change a game. I thought we played well at the weekend and thought the inclusion of Woods in that three changed the entire dynamic. Previously the support to Afobe with that system was non existent but with Woods playing football through midfield it was fine. I don't think either centre half is covering themselves in glory right now but the one to drop is Bruno. Bring in Williams and hope he doesn't have another brain fart. Allen I'd leave in until Clucas is fit at least, else we are looking at Fletcher or Adam. No thanks. Bojan? Changes the formation to a 4-2-3-1 but
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 9:01:26 GMT
Surely Bojan has the maturity and ability to play it a little bit deeper in midfield now?
It wouldn't be the most physical of midfield's but football is played with your head.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 9:19:15 GMT
Surely Bojan has the maturity and ability to play it a little bit deeper in midfield now? It wouldn't be the most physical of midfield's but football is played with your head. Hughes played him there and it wasn't a success to say the least, but as long as there's top defensive back up by a dm who knows how stay in place , I could see Bojan play as an 8. But if it's a midfield three with equal parts equal jobs then Bojan could find himself in a lot of trouble. Who would his defensive dm be? Etobe likes to go forward and while some expected Woods to play just in front of defence, we saw the makings of a playmaker vs SW. In other words Bojan could find himself playing as a virtual 6 at various times during a game and it will only lead to heartbreak. He's best as a 10, and now that the Berahino love-in is over and he's no longer automatic choice, it's as good an opportunity to see Bojan there as any. Will be very surprised if it happens though.
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Post by potterpaul on Sept 17, 2018 9:33:55 GMT
Woods and Etobe really did show Allan's frailties and then Allan himself showed how useless he is with his pathetic dead ball skills, another bag of wank he can add to his swagger of collective shitness.
Rowett knows he is slowly getting a grip on his midfield and forwards with Allan the only (very) weak link. The defence however, needs tinkering with, I honestly believe we too focussed on a stagnate back 4 where a more mobile back 3 would be more affective. I'd be going a 3 4 1 2
Butland Martina Williams/Bruno Pieters Bauer Woods Etebo Ince Bojan Afobe Berehino
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 9:58:41 GMT
I'd leave the midfield three as is and use the one behind a striker for when we need to change a game. I thought we played well at the weekend and thought the inclusion of Woods in that three changed the entire dynamic. Previously the support to Afobe with that system was non existent but with Woods playing football through midfield it was fine. I don't think either centre half is covering themselves in glory right now but the one to drop is Bruno. Bring in Williams and hope he doesn't have another brain fart. Allen I'd leave in until Clucas is fit at least, else we are looking at Fletcher or Adam. No thanks. You not fancying a 10 behind Afobe, with Woods and Etebo behind? Saido/Bojan?
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Post by OldStokie on Sept 17, 2018 10:07:13 GMT
What's plain to see by most supporters should be obvious to Rowett by now. I like Joe Allen. He's had some great games for us, but it's obvious that he's not suited to a system that requires players to just do their job and not try to do everone else's. He's all over the pitch and often makes errors that wrong foot the players around him. We can't afford that at the moment and he should be benched.
Out of the two central defenders on Saturday, BMI was worse than Shawcross. He was so flat footed and slow for their first goal that he looked like the Titanic doing a 360' turn as their player ran past him. It was bread and butter stuff and both centre halves were at fault... BMI more than Shawcross. Ryan has been a great servant to us but he's just not doing it now, and Bruno has never been the same player since he went back after his loan spell. And as a central defensive pairing, they're not up to scratch.
I won't pretend I know the answer to the problem but I do know there is one, and it has to be rectified soon. We're shipping far too many goals and that central defence is the key to stopping them.
OS.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 10:08:40 GMT
I would not drop Allen or Shawcross. Something needs to change at the back to sort out the defence, we are conceding far too many easy goals. I think Williams coming in for Shawcross is a reasonable option at the moment, I'm not convinced as a player he is any better or worse but some new ideas and blood could make the difference at the back we are in dire need of. Come January or next summer we need to sign a new CB to replace Shawcross, he can't be the first name on the team sheet for much longer unless we see a drastic change of form (and I can't see it since he has been getting worse for a few years now). Allen was very poor on Saturday, one of the worst games I've seen him play - but he was noticeably better when Bojan came on and they started to put a few passes together. If he is to stay n the team then it should not be as a number 10, he should be playing further back - but that means either Woods or Etebo miss out, Woods was superb at the weekend so it's either Allen/Etebo for me (Etebo easily on current form) and either Saido or Bojan to play as our number 10.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 17, 2018 11:09:58 GMT
Shawcross is on a knife edge for me. Allen needs dropping immediately. I still can't understand why Fletcher is anywhere near the team.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 17, 2018 11:13:11 GMT
With this defence he hasn't got a chance. He's had 21 million chances. And that was never going to be enough to overhaul an ageing over rate squad, its a lot of money I agree, but we needed very close to a new starting 11 at least, more investment is needed to sort out the defence.
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Post by mrred on Sept 17, 2018 11:53:55 GMT
I think I've seen enough of Rowett, his gameplans and substitutions to know that he hasn't got any bollocks, no.
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Post by stokesaint1 on Sept 17, 2018 11:59:00 GMT
What is really annoying is that the Joe Allen that played for Wales against Republic of Ireland last week was superb. Similarly his first 10 or 12 games when he first came here. There is a really good player in there somewhere, it just appears we're managing it out of him.
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Post by VolvicStokie on Sept 17, 2018 12:03:34 GMT
I don't think the starting line up needs changing after the Wednesday performance.
Having said that, Allen has looked the weak link in our shoddy system (UP TO NOW!). I'd hazard a guess with Woods now in the roll we've needed since N'Zonzi left, that releases Joe to run around like a man possessed and do what he does best.
Allen was one of our best performers for the last couple of years, a shaky start in a team that needs time to gel isn't going to mean he gets dropped. I genuinely think he'll flourish (for want of a better word) with Woods holding.
On the other hand, Etebo looks absolutely immense and is in my opinion, undroppable. So dependent on which system Rowett wants to play, there's gonna be some serious competition when everyones fit.
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Post by 4evastoke on Sept 17, 2018 12:04:49 GMT
If anyone needs to be dropped surly it's Diouf he was dire again on Saturday, he was partially to blame for Thier second goal.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 17, 2018 12:27:35 GMT
Surely Bojan has the maturity and ability to play it a little bit deeper in midfield now? It wouldn't be the most physical of midfield's but football is played with your head. I think you'll find football is played primarily with the feet. If you don't have some physicality in the midfield in this league you will end up with a bunch of midfield intellectuals scratching their heads wondering why they are getting mullered. The misty eyed thinking over Bojan is getting silly - and setting him as some sort of misunderstood Messiah is frankly barking. Since his injury he ducks out of tackles. Watch next time he makes a cameo - he's terrified of putting his body on the line. Every hairy arsed defender in the league must know this - they also know they've only got to make one tackle with some aggressive intent and even without making contact we'll be down to 10 men. He'll hide for the rest of the game - and in midfield that would be a disaster. Bojan has the ability to play well in this league - he simply doesn't have mentality. He's too soft.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 17, 2018 12:34:59 GMT
Surely Bojan has the maturity and ability to play it a little bit deeper in midfield now? It wouldn't be the most physical of midfield's but football is played with your head. I think you'll find football is played primarily with the feet. If you don't have some physicality in the midfield in this league you will end up with a bunch of midfield intellectuals scratching their heads wondering why they are getting mullered. The misty eyed thinking over Bojan is getting silly - and setting him as some sort of misunderstood Messiah is frankly barking. Since his injury he ducks out of tackles. Watch next time he makes a cameo - he's terrified of putting his body on the line. Every hairy arsed defender in the league must know this - they also know they've only got to make one tackle with some aggressive intent and even without making contact we'll be down to 10 men. He'll hide for the rest of the game - and in midfield that would be a disaster. Bojan has the ability to play well in this league - he simply doesn't have mentality. He's too soft. Terrified of putting his body on the line you say? He was on the pitch for less than 10 minutes on Saturday and he was the most fouled player in the game over the course of 90 minutes. Every time he got the ball, they basically shit themselves and kicked him. He didn't look scared to me. He just got on with the game and tried to get on the ball again.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 17, 2018 12:36:11 GMT
If anyone needs to be dropped surly it's Diouf he was dire again on Saturday, he was partially to blame for Thier second goal. He was dire from around the 70th minute, pretty much like the rest of the team in truth. Until that point, he had caused them no end of problems. It's just a shame he's so shit in front of goal.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 17, 2018 12:37:02 GMT
What is the point of dropping Ryan when we have no-one better to replace him?
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Post by Pricey on Sept 17, 2018 12:44:07 GMT
I don't think the starting line up needs changing after the Wednesday performance. Having said that, Allen has looked the weak link in our shoddy system (UP TO NOW!). I'd hazard a guess with Woods now in the roll we've needed since N'Zonzi left, that releases Joe to run around like a man possessed and do what he does best. Allen was one of our best performers for the last couple of years, a shaky start in a team that needs time to gel isn't going to mean he gets dropped. I genuinely think he'll flourish (for want of a better word) with Woods holding. On the other hand, Etebo looks absolutely immense and is in my opinion, undroppable. So dependent on which system Rowett wants to play, there's gonna be some serious competition when everyones fit. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That. Then we'll see what Clucas has to offer when fit. I appreciate that Allen gave the free-kick away for their second goal but far more worrying is how easy it is to score against our central defence. That first goal wouldn't have looked out of place in the lower reaches of non-league. There are still central defenders available as free agents and we should sign one. Woods will make the rest of our midfield look better because he's playing below his level in this league. I don't buy the "need a number 10" idea at all. Ince, although lining up mostly on the flank, is effectively our number 10 and playing someone in there specifically to be creative behind our striker would leave us too unbalanced given our shortcomings in defence. Sticking with the three in midfield that played on Saturday is fine for now.
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Post by kustokie on Sept 17, 2018 12:48:12 GMT
I'd leave the midfield three as is and use the one behind a striker for when we need to change a game. I thought we played well at the weekend and thought the inclusion of Woods in that three changed the entire dynamic. Previously the support to Afobe with that system was non existent but with Woods playing football through midfield it was fine. I don't think either centre half is covering themselves in glory right now but the one to drop is Bruno. Bring in Williams and hope he doesn't have another brain fart. Allen I'd leave in until Clucas is fit at least, else we are looking at Fletcher or Adam. No thanks. You not fancying a 10 behind Afobe, with Woods and Etebo behind? Saido/Bojan? That would be my choice.
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