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Post by Davef on Sept 10, 2018 21:15:21 GMT
What a vile human being. Just watched it and what really pisses me off was the crowd cheering her on. Loved how the umpire was ramping up the punishment as her ranting continued eventually ending in a game penalty. You could have banked on the Womens Tennis Association coming out in support of her. Wonder what the Men’s Tennis Association had to say.....oh hang on there isn’t one. Sexism my arse. That would be the ATP. I'm not quite sure what your point is here? It's like saying there is no men's football association because the word "Men's" isn't in the title. Do you want the FA Cup to be re-named the Men's FA Cup? |
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Post by stokie66 on Sept 10, 2018 21:28:10 GMT
What a vile human being. Just watched it and what really pisses me off was the crowd cheering her on. Loved how the umpire was ramping up the punishment as her ranting continued eventually ending in a game penalty. You could have banked on the Womens Tennis Association coming out in support of her. Wonder what the Men’s Tennis Association had to say.....oh hang on there isn’t one. Sexism my arse. The crowd were cheering her on because she was correct in her comments. Since the incident male tennis players have backed Serena and stated that they have said worse things on the court and not received similar punishment . So she is a vile person for making a valid point. |
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Post by maninasuitcase on Sept 10, 2018 23:08:02 GMT
Sorry I don't agree with that. I didn't look at that and think of anything to do with race, all I saw was someone spitting the dummy cos they were losing. |
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Post by FbrgVaStkFan on Sept 10, 2018 23:45:47 GMT
I don't want to defend Serena as I'm far from being a fan of her tennis or attitude and the punishment was entirely justified. What's missing in the dialogue above is that she believes (and I've seen nothing to contradict her) that if the same action had been taken by a male player, the punishment would not have been as severe. If that's true, (and I cannot judge that either way), then her comments afterwards about sexism are correct. Yes. Then let's have the ladies play those five sets as well. |
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Sept 11, 2018 6:12:49 GMT
I don't want to defend Serena as I'm far from being a fan of her tennis or attitude and the punishment was entirely justified. What's missing in the dialogue above is that she believes (and I've seen nothing to contradict her) that if the same action had been taken by a male player, the punishment would not have been as severe. If that's true, (and I cannot judge that either way), then her comments afterwards about sexism are correct. Yes. Then let's have the ladies play those five sets as well. I agree with you, or at least they should be paid for three sets and the men should be paid for five. As I said, I'm far from being a fan of Serena or women's tennis, however your comment has nothing to do with the validity of her comments. People need to look past the fact that she deserved to be punished for her reprehensible behaviour and accept that she may be correct that she was treated differently than how a man would have been in the same circumstances. It's no surprise that posters on here have a skewed view on what sexism means as the vast majority of comments here are attacking Serena instead of debating the merits of her comments. |
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Post by Dutchpeter on Sept 11, 2018 7:03:45 GMT
And poor old Naomi Osaka’s debut title has been overshadowed and forgotten. A shame for the lass.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 11, 2018 7:12:13 GMT
She's probably on the blob.
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Post by felonious on Sept 11, 2018 7:18:06 GMT
Yes. Then let's have the ladies play those five sets as well. I agree with you, or at least they should be paid for three sets and the men should be paid for five. As I said, I'm far from being a fan of Serena or women's tennis, however your comment has nothing to do with the validity of her comments. People need to look past the fact that she deserved to be punished for her reprehensible behaviour and accept that she may be correct that she was treated differently than how a man would have been in the same circumstances. It's no surprise that posters on here have a skewed view on what sexism means as the vast majority of comments here are attacking Serena instead of debating the merits of her comments. Unfortunately she has a long history of reprehensible behaviour on court which is the main reason she is disliked by so many people. I suspect it's not so much to do with bad behaviour but gamesmanship which is far worse, pressurising the umpires in general and intimidating/ disrupting the opponents. I despise her charm after the event which just appears to be all about her ego.
As for the cartoon it's a fair depiction of her behaviour on court. If it had been depicting her elegant, attractive and charming elder sister then it would have been racist.
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Post by felonious on Sept 11, 2018 7:18:54 GMT
She's probably on the blob. Blobby in her case.  |
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 11, 2018 8:23:33 GMT
The problem is that after years of steam rolling opponents
Age has caught up with her and in her defence a year out probably hasn’t helped
She finds she can’t do the steam rolling anymore
And is finding it hard to cope
She is desperate to be known as the best woman tennis player ever but she’s one grand slam behind Margaret Cort
And she knows time is running out
This is still no excuse for her behaviour
Maybe she would of been better just admitting she lost it under pressure and apologised
I won’t hold my breath
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Post by FbrgVaStkFan on Sept 11, 2018 8:38:58 GMT
Yes. Then let's have the ladies play those five sets as well. I agree with you, or at least they should be paid for three sets and the men should be paid for five. As I said, I'm far from being a fan of Serena or women's tennis, however your comment has nothing to do with the validity of her comments. People need to look past the fact that she deserved to be punished for her reprehensible behaviour and accept that she may be correct that she was treated differently than how a man would have been in the same circumstances. It's no surprise that posters on here have a skewed view on what sexism means as the vast majority of comments here are attacking Serena instead of debating the merits of her comments. So, my view that a sport that is may be inherently sexist because it believes women are only capable of playing three sets (I'm assuming due to their delicate nature) has nothing to do with the validity of her comments? Has she complained about the lack of two more sets? I'm hoping she does. |
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Post by Hiram on Sept 11, 2018 9:24:45 GMT
Sorry I don't agree with that. I didn't look at that and think of anything to do with race, all I saw was someone spitting the dummy cos they were losing. Why is Osaka depicted as white with long blonde hair in the cartoon? |
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Sept 11, 2018 9:40:18 GMT
I agree with you, or at least they should be paid for three sets and the men should be paid for five. As I said, I'm far from being a fan of Serena or women's tennis, however your comment has nothing to do with the validity of her comments. People need to look past the fact that she deserved to be punished for her reprehensible behaviour and accept that she may be correct that she was treated differently than how a man would have been in the same circumstances. It's no surprise that posters on here have a skewed view on what sexism means as the vast majority of comments here are attacking Serena instead of debating the merits of her comments. So, my view that a sport that is may be inherently sexist because it believes women are only capable of playing three sets (I'm assuming due to their delicate nature) has nothing to do with the validity of her comments? Has she complained about the lack of two more sets? I'm hoping she does. For the record, I agree that the prize money in tennis is sexist against men, however my point still remains that her comments are probably correct, even though I'm convinced she is a very poor loser with a chip on her shoulder. Frankly though, if I were to swap places with Serena. I would also have a huge chip on my shoulder due to the comments about her appearance and race that she has endured for her whole life. I dislike her behaviour and I find her unattractive and I believe that the way she dresses is a big fuck you to people like me and all her detractors. |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 11, 2018 11:13:48 GMT
Let's just imagine that the umpire was black and Williams was white and she'd spat the dummy out in such a reprehensible way.
People would be defending the umpire as a fine, upstanding, decent person trying to do his/her best whilst being verbally abused humiliated, repeatedly, by a quite obnoxious human being, who'd also reduced her opponent to a tears, on what should have been, her finest hour.
But hang on, Williams is a black woman and the umpires white so fuck all that.
You racist, sexist, bastard umpire.
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Post by stokie66 on Sept 11, 2018 19:49:36 GMT
I agree with you, or at least they should be paid for three sets and the men should be paid for five. As I said, I'm far from being a fan of Serena or women's tennis, however your comment has nothing to do with the validity of her comments. People need to look past the fact that she deserved to be punished for her reprehensible behaviour and accept that she may be correct that she was treated differently than how a man would have been in the same circumstances. It's no surprise that posters on here have a skewed view on what sexism means as the vast majority of comments here are attacking Serena instead of debating the merits of her comments. Unfortunately she has a long history of reprehensible behaviour on court which is the main reason she is disliked by so many people. I suspect it's not so much to do with bad behaviour but gamesmanship which is far worse, pressurising the umpires in general and intimidating/ disrupting the opponents. I despise her charm after the event which just appears to be all about her ego.
As for the cartoon it's a fair depiction of her behaviour on court. If it had been depicting her elegant, attractive and charming elder sister then it would have been racist.
Are you seriously saying that you don’t find that cartoon racist? Take a good look at the way that idiot has drawn her face. It is based on the way African Americans were dipicted during the 19th and early 20th Century, the era of “Jim Crow”. The buffoon could not even draw her opponent correctly as she is clearly shown as a white women with blonde hair. |
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Post by felonious on Sept 11, 2018 19:58:21 GMT
Unfortunately she has a long history of reprehensible behaviour on court which is the main reason she is disliked by so many people. I suspect it's not so much to do with bad behaviour but gamesmanship which is far worse, pressurising the umpires in general and intimidating/ disrupting the opponents. I despise her charm after the event which just appears to be all about her ego.
As for the cartoon it's a fair depiction of her behaviour on court. If it had been depicting her elegant, attractive and charming elder sister then it would have been racist.
Are you seriously saying that you don’t find that cartoon racist? Take a good look at the way that idiot has drawn her face. It is based on the way African Americans were dipicted during the 19th and early 20th Century, the era of “Jim Crow”. The buffoon could not even draw her opponent correctly as she is clearly shown as a white women with blonde hair. I wouldn't necessarily have looked at that cartoon for deep hidden meanings or even had any idea of the knowledge that African Americans were depicted in this way in the 19th and early 20th centuries but from now on I will hold back any laughter on any future cartoon I see until the great and the good on the Oatcake have had their say
She's a dreadful role model for African Americans based on my experience of watching her over the years. Charm on a stick when she's winning and downright unpleasant when she's losing.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 11, 2018 20:38:20 GMT
Unfortunately she has a long history of reprehensible behaviour on court which is the main reason she is disliked by so many people. I suspect it's not so much to do with bad behaviour but gamesmanship which is far worse, pressurising the umpires in general and intimidating/ disrupting the opponents. I despise her charm after the event which just appears to be all about her ego.
As for the cartoon it's a fair depiction of her behaviour on court. If it had been depicting her elegant, attractive and charming elder sister then it would have been racist.
Are you seriously saying that you don’t find that cartoon racist? Take a good look at the way that idiot has drawn her face. It is based on the way African Americans were dipicted during the 19th and early 20th Century, the era of “Jim Crow”. The buffoon could not even draw her opponent correctly as she is clearly shown as a white women with blonde hair. I've only just seen this cartoon... it's pretty reprehensible. It's not particularly funny and it's not particularly clever. Whether it's racist, well, it's certainly on the line (shit pun), isn't it? It's 100% sexist and I'm amazed that people (albeit not many) are arguing that. The whole motivation is the fact it's a female tennis player having a bit of a strop. We never saw cartoons mocking Andre Agassi or Pete Sampras or John McEnroe or even Andy Murray who has been partial to a meltdown or two over the years. It seems the author felt it was funny because it was a woman losing her shit, instead of a male. It's also pretty 'shamey' if you get me? The other woman is slim, small and almost beautified (by having white skn, blonde hair and a nice cap keeping her hair in place). Serena is basically drawn as a huge Godzilla like creature, with hair twice the size of her actual head and huge legs (the other player has pencil thin legs). But really, nobody gives a flying shit about the above two. The real question.... is it racist? I don't think that the cartoonist went into his studio thinking "I'm going to make a racist cartoon and piss off the world" but there are definitely stereotypes there, that you really wouldn't see if she was white. It's dodgy at best and pretty much out and out racist at worst and I can't make my mind up quite where it sits at the moment. It may not fit the textbook definition of racism, but I think it's the undertones that are disturbing, so there's no way I'm even considering the option of it being completely non-racist because then why would he have used stereotypes? - Big fat lips - Big tongue - Big bushy almost Africanized hair, despite the fact her hair is Westernized for a black woman (usually in a scrunchie with a head band). and.... some argue that she is posed, especially in the way she is jumping, a bit like an ape. I really don't think I can call that tbh and it's worth leaning on the side of caution there, because once you get into that territory, you are absolutely accusing the author of being an open racist as opposed to just fucking stupid. I was listening to LBC before that twat Farage's show started and there were a number of callers who phoned in mentioning the ape like resemblance. Ultimately, it's how we perceive things, and as a white person, I can totally see why people might think it's been drawn ape-like. It's the kind of thing The Simpsons would do, to literally mock Homer as being an ape. Dodgy.... as.... fuck |
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Post by FbrgVaStkFan on Sept 11, 2018 20:59:14 GMT
You all do understand the concept and defining features of the art form of "caricatures," right? But, the blonde in the back makes me think the artist didn't actually see the match or maybe the colorist/inker? was not the artist.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Sept 11, 2018 21:50:28 GMT
I do wonder if it's possible to do a caricature of Serena in an unflattering light without it looking racist.
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Post by FbrgVaStkFan on Sept 11, 2018 22:33:43 GMT
I do wonder if it's possible to do a caricature of Serena in an unflattering light without it looking racist. Yes, if one isn't looking for racism to be outraged about. I'm by no means saying racism doesn't exist, but just step back, take a second or two and really look at what you are looking at. As an exercise, you can go do a search on Google Images of caricatures of Ice Cube, Woody Allen, Aretha Franklin, Albert Einstein, Barbara Striesand, and others--you can probably see a trend here (forgive my spelling if the names are wrong). Then google a caricature of Mick Jagger and ask yourself if Mick were a black man, would the caricature be racist? Can one do a caricature of Dolly Parton and not be sexist? I don't know, sometimes a damn caricature is just a damn caricature. |
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Post by banksofengland on Sept 11, 2018 23:00:28 GMT
Williams outburst has taken away from the Japanese's girls first major Williams behavior on the court was bad enough what she said at the press conference after says alot about her character she's won 23 majors she should have just congratulated her opponent on her first major then just walked away.
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Post by Mendicant on Sept 12, 2018 5:14:09 GMT
I wish tennis players would just shut up and play the game.
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Post by felonious on Sept 12, 2018 6:06:32 GMT
Are you seriously saying that you don’t find that cartoon racist? Take a good look at the way that idiot has drawn her face. It is based on the way African Americans were dipicted during the 19th and early 20th Century, the era of “Jim Crow”. The buffoon could not even draw her opponent correctly as she is clearly shown as a white women with blonde hair. I've only just seen this cartoon... it's pretty reprehensible. It's not particularly funny and it's not particularly clever. Whether it's racist, well, it's certainly on the line (shit pun), isn't it? It's 100% sexist and I'm amazed that people (albeit not many) are arguing that. The whole motivation is the fact it's a female tennis player having a bit of a strop. We never saw cartoons mocking Andre Agassi or Pete Sampras or John McEnroe or even Andy Murray who has been partial to a meltdown or two over the years. It seems the author felt it was funny because it was a woman losing her shit, instead of a male. It's also pretty 'shamey' if you get me? The other woman is slim, small and almost beautified (by having white skn, blonde hair and a nice cap keeping her hair in place). Serena is basically drawn as a huge Godzilla like creature, with hair twice the size of her actual head and huge legs (the other player has pencil thin legs). But really, nobody gives a flying shit about the above two. The real question.... is it racist? I don't think that the cartoonist went into his studio thinking "I'm going to make a racist cartoon and piss off the world" but there are definitely stereotypes there, that you really wouldn't see if she was white. It's dodgy at best and pretty much out and out racist at worst and I can't make my mind up quite where it sits at the moment. It may not fit the textbook definition of racism, but I think it's the undertones that are disturbing, so there's no way I'm even considering the option of it being completely non-racist because then why would he have used stereotypes? - Big fat lips - Big tongue - Big bushy almost Africanized hair, despite the fact her hair is Westernized for a black woman (usually in a scrunchie with a head band). and.... some argue that she is posed, especially in the way she is jumping, a bit like an ape. I really don't think I can call that tbh and it's worth leaning on the side of caution there, because once you get into that territory, you are absolutely accusing the author of being an open racist as opposed to just fucking stupid. I was listening to LBC before that twat Farage's show started and there were a number of callers who phoned in mentioning the ape like resemblance. Ultimately, it's how we perceive things, and as a white person, I can totally see why people might think it's been drawn ape-like. It's the kind of thing The Simpsons would do, to literally mock Homer as being an ape. Dodgy.... as.... fuck I'm not sure whether you follow tennis at all but Serena Williams has constantly talked about motherhood, "moms" since her comeback. I absolutely appreciate that she had an incredibly hard birth and is undoubtably beyond question a proud parent but there was something slightly uncomfortable about the constant references which seemed like an excuse for potential failure although she has had an incredibly successful comeback. The dummy I believe is a clever reference to months of constant baby comments. As for the bodily caricature she looks like a bodybuilder compared to almost every other female player in her time on the circuit and before therefore squashing that frame into a vision of jumping up and down on a racquet, throwing her dummy out, would surely produce that cartoon vision of her. |
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Sept 12, 2018 7:42:43 GMT
We never saw cartoons mocking John McEnroe  |
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Post by Dutchpeter on Sept 12, 2018 8:55:08 GMT
We never saw cartoons mocking John McEnroe John McEnroe was much parodied in the media in the 80s, as are many celebrities. Offended for the sake of being offended. |
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Sept 12, 2018 10:20:22 GMT
Williams outburst has taken away from the Japanese's girls first major Williams behavior on the court was bad enough what she said at the press conference after says alot about her character she's won 23 majors she should have just congratulated her opponent on her first major then just walked away. That was my immediate thought too, but in hindsight, I think it's done Osaka a big favour as far more people have an awareness of her win than would have happened if Serena had done the decent thing and kept her mouth shut and lost with dignity. |
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Post by drjeffsdiscobarge on Sept 12, 2018 13:25:15 GMT
What a vile human being. Just watched it and what really pisses me off was the crowd cheering her on. Loved how the umpire was ramping up the punishment as her ranting continued eventually ending in a game penalty. You could have banked on the Womens Tennis Association coming out in support of her. Wonder what the Men’s Tennis Association had to say.....oh hang on there isn’t one. Sexism my arse. The crowd were cheering her on because she was correct in her comments. Since the incident male tennis players have backed Serena and stated that they have said worse things on the court and not received similar punishment . So she is a vile person for making a valid point. Martina Navratilova's take on it, ref was harsh but his actions were technically correct... linkety linkApparently, commentating on US TV warned before the loss of the game that another infringement would result in the loss of a game. She is a quite simply an awful loser (mainly because she's just not used to losing) and mentioning she has a child was pathetic, because her actions were no kind of example to set for any child. She wanted to win, couldn't handle not winning and couldn't deal with not winning. |
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Post by metalhead on Sept 12, 2018 13:38:44 GMT
We never saw cartoons mocking John McEnroe Fair enough, can't argue with that. I'm not sure whether you follow tennis at all but Serena Williams has constantly talked about motherhood, "moms" since her comeback. I absolutely appreciate that she had an incredibly hard birth and is undoubtably beyond question a proud parent but there was something slightly uncomfortable about the constant references which seemed like an excuse for potential failure although she has had an incredibly successful comeback. The dummy I believe is a clever reference to months of constant baby comments. As for the bodily caricature she looks like a bodybuilder compared to almost every other female player in her time on the circuit and before therefore squashing that frame into a vision of jumping up and down on a racquet, throwing her dummy out, would surely produce that cartoon vision of her. Are you suggesting this meltdown is a cover for the fact she hasn't returned to her best? They've not really made an attempt to make it look like Serena though, have they? There are clear stereotypes there. |
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Post by musik on Sept 12, 2018 15:14:38 GMT
If Serena Williams didn't see the signs and help from the coach in the crowd, may be it ... but how would the referee know that?
It's a major attribute for a world star in any kind of sport - they hate to lose and she seldom do. That's why they're world stars.
As for the caricature cartoon, I agree it could be called a racist cartoon - when it comes to the asian girl. She isn't white.
A caricature is SUPPOSED to be exaggerative. It's the whole point.
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Post by stokie66 on Sept 12, 2018 15:57:46 GMT
If Serena Williams didn't see the signs and help from the coach in the crowd, may be it ... but how would the referee know that? It's a major attribute for a world star in any kind of sport - they hate to lose and she seldom do. That's why they're world stars. As for the caricature cartoon, I agree it could be called a racist cartoon - when it comes to the asian girl. She isn't white. A caricature is SUPPOSED to be exaggerative. It's the whole point. OK. Look again at the cartoon. If you can try to focus just on the face ignoring all other areas of the drawing. Could you really say that this is a caricature of Serena Williams? Does it exaggerate her features? No this is actually caricaturing a race of people using disgusting racial stereotypes taken from the "Jim Crow " era of 19th America when racial segregation was enforced in society. Yes I agree with your point about the cartoonists depiction of Serenas opponent. So the buffoon has slurred both of them. |
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