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Post by bloodtypered on Sept 2, 2018 21:48:58 GMT
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Post by NassauDave on Sept 2, 2018 22:05:48 GMT
Our manager certainly does judging by his team selections and substitutions.
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Post by duckling on Sept 2, 2018 22:48:53 GMT
These gambling companies wouldn't advertise/market so heavily at football games if it wasn't profitable for them.
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Post by tony1234 on Sept 2, 2018 22:58:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 22:59:51 GMT
Yes a serious unregulated one.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 23:02:28 GMT
I'll bet it does
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Post by The man from Utch on Sept 3, 2018 3:47:35 GMT
I'd put my house on it that it does
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 3, 2018 4:48:29 GMT
It's going to be of epidemic proportions soon. It's so easy to place a bet now, and there is an endless supply of football to bet on, too. |
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Post by jontimmis on Sept 3, 2018 5:47:56 GMT
This is a real issue. Every other advert now feels like a free bet, bet on play, bet boost....
Imagine The big tobacco companies doing it, imagine every other advert being an alcohol related one.
Gambling especially online is ruining people and looks who’s pockets we fill in the process..... oh wait our owners for one?
20/24 teams in the championship have a betting sponsor, who are the mugs?
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Post by fca47 on Sept 3, 2018 9:02:47 GMT
We might as well ban everything that people have ever lost money on or fallen over. There is no difference between the stock market and gambling, but the dogooders can't help but show us how superior they are to the working class, but daren't say anything to our betters.
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Post by icelandpotter on Sept 3, 2018 9:17:30 GMT
We might as well ban everything that people have ever lost money on or fallen over. There is no difference between the stock market and gambling, but the dogooders can't help but show us how superior they are to the working class, but daren't say anything to our betters. Steady on there fella, no-one was suggesting to "ban gambling". |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 3, 2018 10:17:01 GMT
We might as well ban everything that people have ever lost money on or fallen over. There is no difference between the stock market and gambling, but the dogooders can't help but show us how superior they are to the working class, but daren't say anything to our betters. Steady on there fella, no-one was suggesting to "ban gambling". I would. |
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Post by hanibal7 on Sept 3, 2018 10:25:06 GMT
The individual has a gambling problem.
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Post by rawli on Sept 3, 2018 10:25:43 GMT
The world has a problem with gambling. Vast profits for bookies and society has to bear the brunt with increased poverty and crime.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 3, 2018 10:40:24 GMT
Steady on there fella, no-one was suggesting to "ban gambling". I would. Ok, well ciggies and alcohol have to go as well then.... And computer games...... And probably a whole load of other things. You in favour of banning them all? |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 3, 2018 11:00:09 GMT
Ok, well ciggies and alcohol have to go as well then.... And computer games...... And probably a whole load of other things. You in favour of banning them all? No, but thats why I'm a hypocrite  Edit, it also isn't just a simple comparison like that, there's social elements to some of those things so it not quite the same but I wouldn't be against banning smoking either, and I used to smoke and still do that vaping nonsense too. |
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Post by spitthedog on Sept 3, 2018 11:41:04 GMT
We might as well ban everything that people have ever lost money on or fallen over. There is no difference between the stock market and gambling, but the dogooders can't help but show us how superior they are to the working class, but daren't say anything to our betters. Why is that everytime anyone mentions issues around gambling, we get this ridiculous over-reaction of 'we might as well ban everything we enjoy then' . Apart from a few religious fanatics, who exactly has proposed that all gambling should be banned? The issue is whether regulation can help support people who are struggling with gambling addiction. Call me a dogooder if you want call names, but having seen the tragic consequences of gambling on families at first hand that should at least be considered a reasonable path to explore. I can forward evidence of my working class credentials if that helps too! |
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Post by entropy92 on Sept 3, 2018 12:24:11 GMT
Ive always had a problem with fruit machines, it started when i was skyving college in the 90's at Shipleys in Stoke and it became quite a serious problem. Thankfully im over the worst although if i go to the pub i will often waste 20 quid in 1.
Online betting is a different story, its grabbed hold of quite a few of my friends, who were never gamblers before in any way shape or form, and they spend all day on weekends checking the bet365 website. Some are in serious debt through it but they dont seem to see it as a problem.
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Post by fca47 on Sept 3, 2018 12:41:43 GMT
We might as well ban everything that people have ever lost money on or fallen over. There is no difference between the stock market and gambling, but the dogooders can't help but show us how superior they are to the working class, but daren't say anything to our betters. Why is that everytime anyone mentions issues around gambling, we get this ridiculous over-reaction of 'we might as well ban everything we enjoy then' . Apart from a few religious fanatics, who exactly has proposed that all gambling should be banned? The issue is whether regulation can help support people who are struggling with gambling addiction. Call me a dogooder if you want call names, but having seen the tragic consequences of gambling on families at first hand that should at least be considered a reasonable path to explore. I can forward evidence of my working class credentials if that helps too! Regulating gambling does nothing to help the problem gamblers, they still have a gambling problem, they need to get some reality into their lives or get psychological help. Banning things just restricts the people who don't have a problem , because a few do. People just want to restrict things that they have some issue with, or a moral aversion, as has been said before , what do we do with shopaholics, ban shopping? I don't gamble and don't see the attraction, but I don't want to restrict others right to do it. |
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Post by shangamuzo on Sept 3, 2018 13:00:29 GMT
Why is that everytime anyone mentions issues around gambling, we get this ridiculous over-reaction of 'we might as well ban everything we enjoy then' . Apart from a few religious fanatics, who exactly has proposed that all gambling should be banned? The issue is whether regulation can help support people who are struggling with gambling addiction. Call me a dogooder if you want call names, but having seen the tragic consequences of gambling on families at first hand that should at least be considered a reasonable path to explore. I can forward evidence of my working class credentials if that helps too! Regulating gambling does nothing to help the problem gamblers, they still have a gambling problem, they need to get some reality into their lives or get psychological help. Banning things just restricts the people who don't have a problem , because a few do. People just want to restrict things that they have some issue with, or a moral aversion, as has been said before , what do we do with shopaholics, ban shopping? I don't gamble and don't see the attraction, but I don't want to restrict others right to do it. The majority of people do not have a gambling problem. But too much enablement will probably draw more people into it-people who previously wouldn't have bothered. |
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Post by metalhead on Sept 3, 2018 13:19:20 GMT
Ok, well ciggies and alcohol have to go as well then.... And computer games...... And probably a whole load of other things. You in favour of banning them all? No, but thats why I'm a hypocrite Edit, it also isn't just a simple comparison like that, there's social elements to some of those things so it not quite the same but I wouldn't be against banning smoking either, and I used to smoke and still do that vaping nonsense too. If we are objective, and it's hard to be on this topic, but if we try, I think it would be a fair assumption that if alcohol and tobacco were discovered today, they would very quickly be banned. Alcohol is genuinely one of the worst drugs you can take. The withdrawal symptoms of alcohol are actually comparable to heroin. The long term damage it does to your body is worse than almost all of the illegal drugs that you can think of. Not only that, the social struggle of the rampant alcoholism that is surreptitiously getting worse with little to no media attention. I think everyone already knows the dangers of smoking. My other example was gaming.... Something else where people with addiction troubles can fritter away huge amounts of money without even knowing it. Gambling is just another one of the above, isn't it? We ban one, we have to ban all of them. I think there's a fine line between what can be considered a mental illness and a lack of self control. I often drink too much on a Saturday (and make a tit of myself) but I don't drink in the week anymore.... At all. Gambling is much the same isn't it? I quite enjoy throwing twenty quid on a few shit horses that belly flop over a couple of fences before they fall at the second to last... Either that or a terrible acca let down usually by Stoke. It's my money and I can spunk it on whatever I like. I quite often go months without a bet then some weekend's I'll go both Saturday and Sunday and chuck thirty quid or so down the shitter. To me, this is perfectly reasonable. I suspect the majority of the population have a healthy relationship with gambling.....so this patronizing gush because of a small minority that have a unhealthy relationship with gambling is actually pointless. It's about identifying what makes those individuals tick that will solve things like alcoholism, gambling and gaming addiction. Understanding their relationship with dopamine etc. Tobacco is the exception. Nicotine causes a chemical imbalance in your brain which drives addiction. |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 3, 2018 13:32:47 GMT
No, but thats why I'm a hypocrite Edit, it also isn't just a simple comparison like that, there's social elements to some of those things so it not quite the same but I wouldn't be against banning smoking either, and I used to smoke and still do that vaping nonsense too. If we are objective, and it's hard to be on this topic, but if we try, I think it would be a fair assumption that if alcohol and tobacco were discovered today, they would very quickly be banned. Alcohol is genuinely one of the worst drugs you can take. The withdrawal symptoms of alcohol are actually comparable to heroin. The long term damage it does to your body is worse than almost all of the illegal drugs that you can think of. Not only that, the social struggle of the rampant alcoholism that is surreptitiously getting worse with little to no media attention. I think everyone already knows the dangers of smoking. My other example was gaming.... Something else where people with addiction troubles can fritter away huge amounts of money without even knowing it. Gambling is just another one of the above, isn't it? We ban one, we have to ban all of them. I think there's a fine line between what can be considered a mental illness and a lack of self control. I often drink too much on a Saturday (and make a tit of myself) but I don't drink in the week anymore.... At all. Gambling is much the same isn't it? I quite enjoy throwing twenty quid on a few shit horses that belly flop over a couple of fences before they fall at the second to last... Either that or a terrible acca let down usually by Stoke. It's my money and I can spunk it on whatever I like. I quite often go months without a bet then some weekend's I'll go both Saturday and Sunday and chuck thirty quid or so down the shitter. To me, this is perfectly reasonable. I suspect the majority of the population have a healthy relationship with gambling.....so this patronizing gush because of a small minority that have a unhealthy relationship with gambling is actually pointless. It's about identifying what makes those individuals tick that will solve things like alcoholism, gambling and gaming addiction. Understanding their relationship with dopamine etc. Tobacco is the exception. Nicotine causes a chemical imbalance in your brain which drives addiction. To be honest if gambling, drinking and smoking were all banned tomorrow I don't think I'd mind or miss it i think there's probably a stronger argument to ban those things than not doing, with regards to gaming surely the way to control the money spent would be to put a ban on in game purchases, you pay once get the game job done, as it used to be, if that means less content then so be it but the way its set up now just seems like its aimed to cause problems for people, get them hooked and see the money flow in. So in conclusion, ban everything |
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Post by shangamuzo on Sept 3, 2018 14:07:46 GMT
If we are objective, and it's hard to be on this topic, but if we try, I think it would be a fair assumption that if alcohol and tobacco were discovered today, they would very quickly be banned. Alcohol is genuinely one of the worst drugs you can take. The withdrawal symptoms of alcohol are actually comparable to heroin. The long term damage it does to your body is worse than almost all of the illegal drugs that you can think of. Not only that, the social struggle of the rampant alcoholism that is surreptitiously getting worse with little to no media attention. I think everyone already knows the dangers of smoking. My other example was gaming.... Something else where people with addiction troubles can fritter away huge amounts of money without even knowing it. Gambling is just another one of the above, isn't it? We ban one, we have to ban all of them. I think there's a fine line between what can be considered a mental illness and a lack of self control. I often drink too much on a Saturday (and make a tit of myself) but I don't drink in the week anymore.... At all. Gambling is much the same isn't it? I quite enjoy throwing twenty quid on a few shit horses that belly flop over a couple of fences before they fall at the second to last... Either that or a terrible acca let down usually by Stoke. It's my money and I can spunk it on whatever I like. I quite often go months without a bet then some weekend's I'll go both Saturday and Sunday and chuck thirty quid or so down the shitter. To me, this is perfectly reasonable. I suspect the majority of the population have a healthy relationship with gambling.....so this patronizing gush because of a small minority that have a unhealthy relationship with gambling is actually pointless. It's about identifying what makes those individuals tick that will solve things like alcoholism, gambling and gaming addiction. Understanding their relationship with dopamine etc. Tobacco is the exception. Nicotine causes a chemical imbalance in your brain which drives addiction. To be honest if gambling, drinking and smoking were all banned tomorrow I don't think I'd mind or miss it i think there's probably a stronger argument to ban those things than not doing, with regards to gaming surely the way to control the money spent would be to put a ban on in game purchases, you pay once get the game job done, as it used to be, if that means less content then so be it but the way its set up now just seems like its aimed to cause problems for people, get them hooked and see the money flow in. So in conclusion, ban everything Banning stuff doesn't usually work but there has to be regulation. Self-regulation does not work because of the obvious conflict of interests. To be frank I don't have that much sympathy with grossly overpaid footballers apropos gambling. It's far more serious for ordinary people who could never afford it and especially youngsters who get hooked. |
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 3, 2018 14:15:12 GMT
This is a real issue. Every other advert now feels like a free bet, bet on play, bet boost.... Imagine The big tobacco companies doing it, imagine every other advert being an alcohol related one. Gambling especially online is ruining people and looks who’s pockets we fill in the process..... oh wait our owners for one? 20/24 teams in the championship have a betting sponsor, who are the mugs? When you buy a pack of 20, you get a free puff on the sales clerk’s smoke? |
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Post by spitthedog on Sept 3, 2018 15:03:41 GMT
No, but thats why I'm a hypocrite Edit, it also isn't just a simple comparison like that, there's social elements to some of those things so it not quite the same but I wouldn't be against banning smoking either, and I used to smoke and still do that vaping nonsense too. If we are objective, and it's hard to be on this topic, but if we try, I think it would be a fair assumption that if alcohol and tobacco were discovered today, they would very quickly be banned. Alcohol is genuinely one of the worst drugs you can take. The withdrawal symptoms of alcohol are actually comparable to heroin. The long term damage it does to your body is worse than almost all of the illegal drugs that you can think of. Not only that, the social struggle of the rampant alcoholism that is surreptitiously getting worse with little to no media attention. I think everyone already knows the dangers of smoking. My other example was gaming.... Something else where people with addiction troubles can fritter away huge amounts of money without even knowing it. Gambling is just another one of the above, isn't it? We ban one, we have to ban all of them. I think there's a fine line between what can be considered a mental illness and a lack of self control. I often drink too much on a Saturday (and make a tit of myself) but I don't drink in the week anymore.... At all. Gambling is much the same isn't it? I quite enjoy throwing twenty quid on a few shit horses that belly flop over a couple of fences before they fall at the second to last... Either that or a terrible acca let down usually by Stoke. It's my money and I can spunk it on whatever I like. I quite often go months without a bet then some weekend's I'll go both Saturday and Sunday and chuck thirty quid or so down the shitter. To me, this is perfectly reasonable. I suspect the majority of the population have a healthy relationship with gambling.....so this patronizing gush because of a small minority that have a unhealthy relationship with gambling is actually pointless. It's about identifying what makes those individuals tick that will solve things like alcoholism, gambling and gaming addiction. Understanding their relationship with dopamine etc. Tobacco is the exception. Nicotine causes a chemical imbalance in your brain which drives addiction. Again, there is huge difference between regulation and banning which hardly anyone is advocating. There is already regulation around drinking and gambling and many other activities, its a question of degrees and its effectiveness. Regulation can mean, for example, limits on the amounts you are able to gamble at a time, exploring how this can be workable, or restricting companies from targeting known addicts. Yes, ultimately the problem is with the individual, not the activity and identifying this is key. However, the way gambling is set up its becoming increasingly more difficult to identify those who are vulnerable. It transpired that my friend's son (a 24 year old English teacher) had been off gambling for 6 months until one night he responded to one of the numerous free offers he was getting through emails & social media from numerous betting companies which triggered an whole night of gambling where he basically lost everything, obviously couldn't bear the consequences of it and took his own life. Gambling addicts are 2 to 3 times more likely to commit suicide than other addicts. I think there is a strong case for regulation and questioning the ethics around the targeting of known addicts through social media which could actually save a few lives. I don't see how that is necessarily going to stop anyone's fun! |
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Post by Pricey on Sept 3, 2018 15:34:07 GMT
I think it's probably worth saying that drinking alcohol, smoking tobacco and gambling are all activities which over the years have been closely associated with watching football matches. All three are very easy to get addicted to but only two of them are now banned from advertising on the shirts and hoardings of football teams in the UK. The reason for this is almost certainly the cost to the NHS of treating health problems directly linked to drinking alcohol and smoking tobacco, compared to the cost to the NHS of treating problems directly linked to gambling. I see no reason why - if legislators were thinking ethically rather than economically - advertising for gambling companies shouldn't be banned just as advertising for alcohol and tobacco companies was.
People remain free to drink and smoke, just as they would be free to gamble in the event of any such ban.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 3, 2018 15:46:44 GMT
To be honest if gambling, drinking and smoking were all banned tomorrow I don't think I'd mind or miss it i think there's probably a stronger argument to ban those things than not doing, with regards to gaming surely the way to control the money spent would be to put a ban on in game purchases, you pay once get the game job done, as it used to be, if that means less content then so be it but the way its set up now just seems like its aimed to cause problems for people, get them hooked and see the money flow in. So in conclusion, ban everything gaming was just an example, but you have hit the nail on the head. Gaming when I was a kid had very little financial risk (other than you wasting your Christmas money on something that isn't very good). That landscape has changed and again, it's an unregulated black hole. Kids can spend thousands on 'freemium' games that portray a lighthearted entertainment game but is actually (as described by south park perfectly) an 'addiction machine' designed to bleed a small number of people out of as much money as possible. |
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Post by jontimmis on Sept 3, 2018 16:08:26 GMT
The problem for me is the constant in your face. Literally every other advert is a betting advert!
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 3, 2018 17:00:44 GMT
I think it's probably worth saying that drinking alcohol, smoking tobacco and gambling are all activities which over the years have been closely associated with watching football matches. All three are very easy to get addicted to but only two of them are now banned from advertising on the shirts and hoardings of football teams in the UK. The reason for this is almost certainly the cost to the NHS of treating health problems directly linked to drinking alcohol and smoking tobacco, compared to the cost to the NHS of treating problems directly linked to gambling. I see no reason why - if legislators were thinking ethically rather than economically - advertising for gambling companies shouldn't be banned just as advertising for alcohol and tobacco companies was. People remain free to drink and smoke, just as they would be free to gamble in the event of any such ban. As others have said, gambling is pushed far more than smoking or drinking, though. It ruined The Ashes for me, with Ray Winston and company encouraging us to bet between overs. It's the same in football, too. It's inevitable that there will be a problem down the line. Advertising works. |
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Post by metalhead on Sept 3, 2018 17:06:53 GMT
However, the way gambling is set up its becoming increasingly more difficult to identify those who are vulnerable. It transpired that my friend's son (a 24 year old English teacher) had been off gambling for 6 months until one night he responded to one of the numerous free offers he was getting through emails & social media from numerous betting companies which triggered an whole night of gambling where he basically lost everything, obviously couldn't bear the consequences of it and took his own life. Gambling addicts are 2 to 3 times more likely to commit suicide than other addicts. I think there is a strong case for regulation and questioning the ethics around the targeting of known addicts through social media which could actually save a few lives. I don't see how that is necessarily going to stop anyone's fun! Firstly, I want to extend condolences to yourself and your friend. I have never been in his situation, but I can imagine it is absolutely devastating to seemingly lose everything in the space of a few hours online. Of course, in reality.... he hadn't lost everything. He had his family, his friends, and all those close who would have no doubt supported him through what would have been a rough few months. It's such a terrible shame, especially at 24, that he felt he had nobody to turn to. It's terrible. The point I am trying to stress though, is what made him do what I (and many others) wouldn't do (not the suicide part, the continuing to gamble when shit was hitting the fan)? Once I was £80-£100 in a hole (I'd never let it get that far nowadays, but still), I would stop. Even pissed out of my skull, I would stop. I would know that I couldn't keep going at the rate I was losing money. The deepest hole I was ever in, was Cheltenham a few years ago (about 2013 ish). It was my first real foray into gambling. My friends were all chatting about the upcoming races and I decided I fancied in, so I signed up for a few accounts to take advantage of the offers. No knowledge, no real understanding of horses racing and sure enough, after 2 or 3 days, I was £100 down with a single £20 free bet offer remaining or something stupid. I had decided to bet on a sport I knew fuck all about and unsurprisingly had lost most of what I had bet. At £102 (to be specific), I decided it was time to stop investing real money, but seeing as I had a £20 free bet that needed to be used, I threw it on a relative outsider. Pure luck, the useless fucker wins and I ended up about £50 up. I cashed out and quit knowing that if I was to actually enjoy this, I needed to understand it a bit more. What made me stop where your friends son would have continued? Was it the fear of losing more? Was it the logic, knowing that realistically, I hadn't been very lucky, and I didn't understand it enough to win consistently and that I was throwing money away? Panic at the thought of my missus finding out I was spunking lots of money on total donkeys? I honestly can't tell you. Something told me to stop putting in actual money, and to simply place the free bet which had to be plonked on a race at Cheltenham anyway because that's how most offers work. There is a relationship there, which clearly isn't truly understood. It's too easy to blame flashing lights and adverts. I don't know about betting companies targeting addicts. That might be something you understand more than me. As I said above, I have only been betting for a few years. For a long time, I considered it a mugs game.... which it is, along with drinking, smoking, and many of the other pleasures we enjoy in life. However, there's something nice (especially in these shit days of football) walking down to get your drink at half time, pulling out your phone and seeing your 4:15 at Haydock happened to place and you won a few pence. Going back to the point about targeting addicts, as far as I can remember, I have always seen and been 'targeted' by betting companies because I have always seen their adverts. Is it not a case of betting companies targeting simply everyone? If they are targeting addicts specifically then that is absolutely disgusting, and if a link can be made, you should expect a Panorama style exposé and potentially some big names in parliament explaining why they're a bunch of shithouses. Where I feel the water has been muddied is by social media 'experts' who are actually paid commission by betting companies. Accatracker, Footy Accums etc etc. These guys basically put out what appear to be 'unique' sign-up offers with incentives and usually (a tweet or two before or after) a corresponding 'really good tip' on a race or a Saturday 'acca'. People with limited knowledge sign up for the offer, chuck money on, place that acca and often lose, thinking there was nothing in it for the guy posting the acca, whereas actually, there is. There was an article about one of them, whereby he encouraged people to basically 'let it ride' every time his acca's came in. After 3 or 4 wins, more and more people were joining in and then he put on a very ropey looking one, which naturally more people signed up and bet on and didn't win. They all lost.... he made a fortune. An example here: To me, this is dodgy as fuck and must be regulated or at least monitored very closely. It's almost a soft form of insider trading. Most people know very little about those teams in that acca and I doubt the bloke who runs that Twitter account does either, but so long as people use his offer links and place those bets, he's laughing all the way to the bank. For a total novice who knew nothing, but perhaps had seen that link on a mates Facebook and of the belief that this guy is giving solid advice with limited return, it might seem like a win win..... but the only person actually winning is him. Dodgy as fuck, like I said. |
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