|
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 3, 2018 17:17:09 GMT
"Ban ban ban"
Ugh.
|
|
|
Post by Pricey on Sept 3, 2018 17:49:38 GMT
I think it's probably worth saying that drinking alcohol, smoking tobacco and gambling are all activities which over the years have been closely associated with watching football matches. All three are very easy to get addicted to but only two of them are now banned from advertising on the shirts and hoardings of football teams in the UK. The reason for this is almost certainly the cost to the NHS of treating health problems directly linked to drinking alcohol and smoking tobacco, compared to the cost to the NHS of treating problems directly linked to gambling. I see no reason why - if legislators were thinking ethically rather than economically - advertising for gambling companies shouldn't be banned just as advertising for alcohol and tobacco companies was. People remain free to drink and smoke, just as they would be free to gamble in the event of any such ban. As others have said, gambling is pushed far more than smoking or drinking, though. It ruined The Ashes for me, with Ray Winston and company encouraging us to bet between overs. It's the same in football, too. It's inevitable that there will be a problem down the line. Advertising works. I'm saying advertising should be banned; or at least restricted.
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 3, 2018 18:00:38 GMT
As others have said, gambling is pushed far more than smoking or drinking, though. It ruined The Ashes for me, with Ray Winston and company encouraging us to bet between overs. It's the same in football, too. It's inevitable that there will be a problem down the line. Advertising works. I'm saying advertising should be banned; or at least restricted. It does seem crazy that it is treated so differently. They are being allowed to hammer away at people, whereas cigarettes have to be hidden! Imagine the outcry if adverts were on saying "Go on, have another double Jack Daniels!" every five minutes?
|
|
|
Post by Pricey on Sept 3, 2018 18:07:40 GMT
I'm saying advertising should be banned; or at least restricted. It does seem crazy that it is treated so differently. They are being allowed to hammer away at people, whereas cigarettes have to be hidden! Imagine the outcry if adverts were on saying "Go on, have another double Jack Daniels!" every five minutes? It's like it's seen as being OK because you don't end up with cancer as a direct result of it. Mental health is as important as physical health but unless there's serious (billions of pounds) investment into treating mental health they will never be seen as equals.
|
|
|
Post by leicspotter on Sept 3, 2018 18:43:15 GMT
Heavy debate for a Monday night. It's a real toughy, balancing choice and personal responsibility against regulation for the protection of the vulnerable (those with addictive personalities?) Already we have bans on advertising fast food to children in order to try and combat the obesity crisis, in addition to the bans on tobacco advertising, warnings on alcohol and the "gamble aware" initiative etc It would be quite easy to take the stance of: we are all adults and can make the choice to smoke, drink, gamble or eat burgers...all of which are perfectly legal activities and, generally harmless in moderation. Or my favourite line: "I blame the parents". Maybe both of these are too simplistic The opposite view is that people need protecting " from themselves" or at least from their 'weaknesses'. Clearly, advertising is very powerful, and the rise of Social Media has created opportunities for less 'overt' advertising, in the 'guise' of blogs which may be sponsored. I've seen , first hand, the impact of alcohol addiction and it appears to have an element of 'genetics' involved (certainly in my family) but it hasn't stopped me enjoying a drink. I don't smoke or gamble and I don't drink on "school nights", so hopefully, in my case, the 'addictive gene' has missed me out. People make choices, and very often, at a young age, make wrong choices which they later come to regret. It seems to me that Education should play a much bigger role in this. Understanding the implications of getting involved with drink, drugs, tobacco, fast food, knives, guns etc might just help some youngsters make better choices. Restricting, not banning, the advertising of these activities might also help to reduce the 'allure'. On a lighter note, can we also get rid of all those 'soaps' which are centred around a pub? Might not make a difference, I just bloody hate them!!
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on Sept 3, 2018 18:46:32 GMT
It does seem crazy that it is treated so differently. They are being allowed to hammer away at people, whereas cigarettes have to be hidden! Imagine the outcry if adverts were on saying "Go on, have another double Jack Daniels!" every five minutes? It's like it's seen as being OK because you don't end up with cancer as a direct result of it. Mental health is as important as physical health but unless there's serious (trillions of pounds) investment into treating mental health they will never be seen as equals. So then we need to ban advertising unhealthy foods as well? They still advertise Oreos and other sugary evils, etc? I'm not in disagreement necessarily. I find most gambling adverts cringey beyond belief. That William Hill one that's usually shown at half time makes me want to throw my breakfast up. However, I think the reasons for banning smoking adverts etc are much clearer and justified whereas I can see why gambling adverts haven't been banned yet. I suspect in time they will be banned.
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on Sept 3, 2018 19:41:06 GMT
Heavy debate for a Monday night. It's a real toughy, balancing choice and personal responsibility against regulation for the protection of the vulnerable (those with addictive personalities?) Already we have bans on advertising fast food to children in order to try and combat the obesity crisis, in addition to the bans on tobacco advertising, warnings on alcohol and the "gamble aware" initiative etc It would be quite easy to take the stance of: we are all adults and can make the choice to smoke, drink, gamble or eat burgers...all of which are perfectly legal activities and, generally harmless in moderation. Or my favourite line: "I blame the parents". Maybe both of these are too simplistic The opposite view is that people need protecting " from themselves" or at least from their 'weaknesses'. Clearly, advertising is very powerful, and the rise of Social Media has created opportunities for less 'overt' advertising, in the 'guise' of blogs which may be sponsored. I've seen , first hand, the impact of alcohol addiction and it appears to have an element of 'genetics' involved (certainly in my family) but it hasn't stopped me enjoying a drink. I don't smoke or gamble and I don't drink on "school nights", so hopefully, in my case, the 'addictive gene' has missed me out. People make choices, and very often, at a young age, make wrong choices which they later come to regret. It seems to me that Education should play a much bigger role in this. Understanding the implications of getting involved with drink, drugs, tobacco, fast food, knives, guns etc might just help some youngsters make better choices. Restricting, not banning, the advertising of these activities might also help to reduce the 'allure'. On a lighter note, can we also get rid of all those 'soaps' which are centred around a pub? Might not make a difference, I just bloody hate them!! Unlike the smoking, alcohol and gambling addiction, I would say the food/obesity 'discussion' is something I can actually relate too. Less than 12 months ago, I was disgustingly huge.... So why was I huge? An addictive personality, bad metabolism, bad luck, genetics, or a lack of self discipline? Simple. A lack of self discipline mate; no other words for it. Instant gratification of fast food and 'snack' foods. I joined a group to lose weight, educated myself on a few things that I didn't know before, but most importantly, I realised that a diet of utter shit is not sustainable so I used that thing they refer to as a brain to teach myself to eat certain foods in moderation.... and I do. Guess what? I lost weight, quite quickly actually. This bollocks about "I'm fat because I'm genetically fat" while knocking back a gallon of full fat Coke.... it's horse shit. If you can sustain a calorie deficit and perhaps a small amount of exercise, you will lose weight. All the excuses I made for my weight are bollocks, and so are all of the others you hear. So yes, I think education is vital in this case. I left school with no idea really about calories and healthy diets. I was that skinny lad and I just expected to be skinny..... soon enough, you're not. Don't get me wrong, I go enough away days and knock back McDonald's and rubbish like that, but in the week when I am at work, I eat as healthy as almost anyone you'll meet. I would say it's rare that there is a good excuse to eat crap food unnecessarily. This is why I find comparisons with things like smoking disingenuous. Smoking is a physical dependency caused by an addiction to nicotine. Most people know of the dangers of smoking these days, but it's surprisingly easy to get addicted to smoking. I have a few friends who got addicted to smoking after a few stressful weeks at work. A smoke can mellow you out.... too many, you're addicted. Like you said though, heavy conversation for a Monday
|
|
|
Post by Pricey on Sept 3, 2018 19:55:44 GMT
It's like it's seen as being OK because you don't end up with cancer as a direct result of it. Mental health is as important as physical health but unless there's serious (trillions of pounds) investment into treating mental health they will never be seen as equals. So then we need to ban advertising unhealthy foods as well? They still advertise Oreos and other sugary evils, etc? I'm not in disagreement necessarily. I find most gambling adverts cringey beyond belief. That William Hill one that's usually shown at half time makes me want to throw my breakfast up. However, I think the reasons for banning smoking adverts etc are much clearer and justified whereas I can see why gambling adverts haven't been banned yet. I suspect in time they will be banned. I thought there already was a partial ban on unhealthy foods at certain times on the day and on certain channels?
|
|
|
Post by pottermouth on Sept 3, 2018 21:15:24 GMT
Ever since the stadium became known as the Bet365 stadium things have gone pear shaped. It’s an awful name, connotations about gambling and no class. It will always be the Brit to me.
|
|
|
Post by duckling on Sept 4, 2018 4:23:16 GMT
In some ways addiction to alcohol or smoking are worse than gambling. No one ever needed an organ transplant from gambling.
But in some ways gambling addiction is worse.
If you get addicted to smoking at age 18 and kick the habit at 28, you can usually avoid the really bad consequences. Your lungs may be damaged a bit, but the damage process will stop for the most part. It's usually only over the period of decades that the really bad stuff happens.
If you get addicted to gambling at the age of 18 and quit at 28, you might already be in crushing debt that will affect the rest of your life. You'll have to take out loans at higher interest rates to pay for things because you haven't saved up any money. Sometimes the only places willing to lend you money are predatory loan companies like Wonga. You'll end up paying more in interest than the original debt.
It only takes a short while to get yourself into massive debt. It can take a lifetime to dig yourself out of it.
Furthermore, when you go into crushing debt due to gambling, it is really tempting to try to earn it back by gambling more. Gambling companies feed that temptation by always show you images of people winning.
|
|
|
Post by upthefud on Sept 4, 2018 4:32:34 GMT
Almost everyone I know gambles above their means. I'm 28 and some of the things people bet on online are ridiculous. I used to have a problem which I saw developing so made a lot of changes to try to fight it before it got out of control. It's the adrenaline rush that gets you.
I still bet occasionally and I still lose, sometimes I get a bit ahead of myself and need to take a couple of weeks off to remind myself how bad it is. It's something I'll always fight and I wasn't even a heavy gambler, but I would be betting around 50 quid a day and up until all hours betting on obscure US sports.
Long story short. the 18-30 age gap has an incredible issue with online gambling. I strongly link it to the amount of male suicides. 84 a week isn't it? Gambling plays a huge role
|
|
|
Post by pottermouth on Sept 4, 2018 12:11:53 GMT
In some ways addiction to alcohol or smoking are worse than gambling. No one ever needed an organ transplant from gambling. But in some ways gambling addiction is worse. If you get addicted to smoking at age 18 and kick the habit at 28, you can usually avoid the really bad consequences. Your lungs may be damaged a bit, but the damage process will stop for the most part. It's usually only over the period of decades that the really bad stuff happens. If you get addicted to gambling at the age of 18 and quit at 28, you might already be in crushing debt that will affect the rest of your life. You'll have to take out loans at higher interest rates to pay for things because you haven't saved up any money. Sometimes the only places willing to lend you money are predatory loan companies like Wonga. You'll end up paying more in interest than the original debt. It only takes a short while to get yourself into massive debt. It can take a lifetime to dig yourself out of it. Furthermore, when you go into crushing debt due to gambling, it is really tempting to try to earn it back by gambling more. Gambling companies feed that temptation by always show you images of people winning. Really good post 👍🏻.
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Sept 5, 2018 22:11:56 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 23:03:11 GMT
However, the way gambling is set up its becoming increasingly more difficult to identify those who are vulnerable. It transpired that my friend's son (a 24 year old English teacher) had been off gambling for 6 months until one night he responded to one of the numerous free offers he was getting through emails & social media from numerous betting companies which triggered an whole night of gambling where he basically lost everything, obviously couldn't bear the consequences of it and took his own life. Gambling addicts are 2 to 3 times more likely to commit suicide than other addicts. I think there is a strong case for regulation and questioning the ethics around the targeting of known addicts through social media which could actually save a few lives. I don't see how that is necessarily going to stop anyone's fun! Firstly, I want to extend condolences to yourself and your friend. I have never been in his situation, but I can imagine it is absolutely devastating to seemingly lose everything in the space of a few hours online. Of course, in reality.... he hadn't lost everything. He had his family, his friends, and all those close who would have no doubt supported him through what would have been a rough few months. It's such a terrible shame, especially at 24, that he felt he had nobody to turn to. It's terrible. The point I am trying to stress though, is what made him do what I (and many others) wouldn't do (not the suicide part, the continuing to gamble when shit was hitting the fan)? Once I was £80-£100 in a hole (I'd never let it get that far nowadays, but still), I would stop. Even pissed out of my skull, I would stop. I would know that I couldn't keep going at the rate I was losing money. The deepest hole I was ever in, was Cheltenham a few years ago (about 2013 ish). It was my first real foray into gambling. My friends were all chatting about the upcoming races and I decided I fancied in, so I signed up for a few accounts to take advantage of the offers. No knowledge, no real understanding of horses racing and sure enough, after 2 or 3 days, I was £100 down with a single £20 free bet offer remaining or something stupid. I had decided to bet on a sport I knew fuck all about and unsurprisingly had lost most of what I had bet. At £102 (to be specific), I decided it was time to stop investing real money, but seeing as I had a £20 free bet that needed to be used, I threw it on a relative outsider. Pure luck, the useless fucker wins and I ended up about £50 up. I cashed out and quit knowing that if I was to actually enjoy this, I needed to understand it a bit more. What made me stop where your friends son would have continued? Was it the fear of losing more? Was it the logic, knowing that realistically, I hadn't been very lucky, and I didn't understand it enough to win consistently and that I was throwing money away? Panic at the thought of my missus finding out I was spunking lots of money on total donkeys? I honestly can't tell you. Something told me to stop putting in actual money, and to simply place the free bet which had to be plonked on a race at Cheltenham anyway because that's how most offers work. There is a relationship there, which clearly isn't truly understood. It's too easy to blame flashing lights and adverts. I don't know about betting companies targeting addicts. That might be something you understand more than me. As I said above, I have only been betting for a few years. For a long time, I considered it a mugs game.... which it is, along with drinking, smoking, and many of the other pleasures we enjoy in life. However, there's something nice (especially in these shit days of football) walking down to get your drink at half time, pulling out your phone and seeing your 4:15 at Haydock happened to place and you won a few pence. Going back to the point about targeting addicts, as far as I can remember, I have always seen and been 'targeted' by betting companies because I have always seen their adverts. Is it not a case of betting companies targeting simply everyone? If they are targeting addicts specifically then that is absolutely disgusting, and if a link can be made, you should expect a Panorama style exposé and potentially some big names in parliament explaining why they're a bunch of shithouses. Where I feel the water has been muddied is by social media 'experts' who are actually paid commission by betting companies. Accatracker, Footy Accums etc etc. These guys basically put out what appear to be 'unique' sign-up offers with incentives and usually (a tweet or two before or after) a corresponding 'really good tip' on a race or a Saturday 'acca'. People with limited knowledge sign up for the offer, chuck money on, place that acca and often lose, thinking there was nothing in it for the guy posting the acca, whereas actually, there is. There was an article about one of them, whereby he encouraged people to basically 'let it ride' every time his acca's came in. After 3 or 4 wins, more and more people were joining in and then he put on a very ropey looking one, which naturally more people signed up and bet on and didn't win. They all lost.... he made a fortune. An example here: To me, this is dodgy as fuck and must be regulated or at least monitored very closely. It's almost a soft form of insider trading. Most people know very little about those teams in that acca and I doubt the bloke who runs that Twitter account does either, but so long as people use his offer links and place those bets, he's laughing all the way to the bank. For a total novice who knew nothing, but perhaps had seen that link on a mates Facebook and of the belief that this guy is giving solid advice with limited return, it might seem like a win win..... but the only person actually winning is him. Dodgy as fuck, like I said. Its a good question.... Why not stop. I walked into a bookies for the first time in about 1999. I only ever played the Willy Hills 6 box football coupon. Quid on.... Win 100 odd. Won it twice. Started to have a flutter on the horses, nothing major and a go on the fruiter. Time passed. Fruiters were my thing, often lost, usually a few hundred quid with the odd win. Stopped them and went back to the horses. Properly. Studied, watched, listened, read. I knew what I was doing. Max bets were 50, a hundred on the very odd occasion. Then I started earning more, but my income wasn't the issue. But two credit cards was. My bets got larger, merely to recoup losses. And I did. Over and over again id be 600-700 quid down, but then stick 500 on the evens fave and I'd be 500 up. I never saw the money though as Security meant that the withdrawal had to be back to the deposit card. Rubbish. So i did it with my own money. That wasn't as successful. But I could cover up my losses from family. Get a loan. Easy. Good credit rating, well paid job. No problem. There were wins (a few hundred to a grand) and losses (a grand plus every so often). I was hooked though. Then it came. PayPal. I could deposit with a credit card linked to PayPal but then only had to withdraw to Paypal. From PayPal I could transfer to me. Bad news. One weekend my main bookie BoyleSports ran a competition to win VIP tickets to Cheltenham. Bet a quid, get an entry. I bet £16,000 that weekend. I got back £16,068. Nothing to do with the competition. I was always trying to get money back. I won the tickets and at the same time became a premium customer. I'd get a free £1000 bet every month. I was betting on all horse racing. UK, Ireland, America, Chile! The last two with no knowledge just hitting faves. Always chasing with the cards my backup to get me out of any hole. But I was losing big. Even when I won I just kept on til I lost. Then I decided enough was enough. One last bet and I was done. Cashed out and retired. I remember it vividly. Formerly 85 rated horse, racing at Leicester off a mark of 60. It was it's first run for two odd years. 8 years old. With a decent trainer it had been hammered all morning. 33s gone, 16s gone, 10s gone, 5s gone. I got on at 7/2 for 3 grand. Return 13.5k.it carried on getting hammered and went off 6/4. 3 out and tanking. Jockey goes for home two out. It's won. Easy. Nope. Nabbed on the line by a nothing horse. Still to this day I think my horse won. Ended up 7k down that day. Eventually the the final day came. Both cards maxed out. I still had my free 1k bet. Id get it up to about 3-4k and that'd be that. What a day. By 3pm my grand was 5.5k. My free 5 quid bet with bet365 was 900 quid. I'd done what I needed to and more. By 5pm id lost it all. And that was that for me. Disclosed it all to the missus. Sorted all my shit out. Closed all my accounts and haven't had a bet in over 3 years. So why you asked. I loved horse racing. Me against the bookies. I loved the excitement of the win. Knowing I'd done them. But I could just never stop when I'd won and to this day I don't know why and never will.
|
|