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Post by Onneravineet on Sept 12, 2018 22:36:32 GMT
It's early days yet, but based on what I've seen so far, I don't fancy us to finish above any of these sides: Leeds Middlesbrough Aston Villa Brentford West Brom Everyone but the relegation contenders Hull.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 12, 2018 22:55:16 GMT
I hope the irony of you telling someone else to ‘get over themselves’ isn’t lost on you Dave. Bauer wasn’t the manager’s player, no. The fact that he was signed five months before he arrived is the giveaway there. The manager has said that he had Etebo scouted five or six times after the pizza boys brought him to him and okayed the signing himself. He’s also played him in the last three games. So while not identified by him he hardly seems unhappy about it? What evidence is there that Williams wasn’t his? Yeah, by all means go for it with the other managers as well, because it’s going to be a clear minority of signings each time isn’t it, bar Lambert, which was an extraordinary set of circumstances altogether? Minority or otherwise it is clear that the manager isn't solely accountable for incomings and outgoings. For Lambert, it was the majority of his signings, 100% of them in fact. This despite him getting the job because he himself knew where we were short. Rowett must have had a time machine to scout etebo 5 times after becoming our manager. Perhaps he could use it so as to back in time and learn how to be a decent manager? Of course he’s not solely accountable, we have a transfer team. Despite that, the vast majority of the signings are the manager’s targets. Hughes, Scholes, Cartwright, have all said that. We’ve signed nine players this season, you’ve identified a grand total of one who wasn’t his man and another you think might not have been. That’s a fairly low percentage, no? Re Etebo, I don’t see why Rowett would lie? What would he have to gain by doing it, it’s fairly pointless? He could just say he had nothing to do with it but he’s happy to go with it, much like numerous other managers at numerous clubs around the world do with similar structures in place?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 13, 2018 9:36:35 GMT
Minority or otherwise it is clear that the manager isn't solely accountable for incomings and outgoings. For Lambert, it was the majority of his signings, 100% of them in fact. This despite him getting the job because he himself knew where we were short. Rowett must have had a time machine to scout etebo 5 times after becoming our manager. Perhaps he could use it so as to back in time and learn how to be a decent manager? Of course he’s not solely accountable, we have a transfer team. Despite that, the vast majority of the signings are the manager’s targets. Hughes, Scholes, Cartwright, have all said that. We’ve signed nine players this season, you’ve identified a grand total of one who wasn’t his man and another you think might not have been. That’s a fairly low percentage, no? Re Etebo, I don’t see why Rowett would lie? What would he have to gain by doing it, it’s fairly pointless? He could just say he had nothing to do with it but he’s happy to go with it, much like numerous other managers at numerous clubs around the world do with similar structures in place? Ask Tony pulis. He was the master of lying
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Post by jimmygscfc on Sept 13, 2018 9:52:19 GMT
Dave, perhaps Rowett just watched videos of Etebo? Not difficult really and if he watched enough then maybe it made his decision an easy one.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 13, 2018 9:56:49 GMT
Of course he’s not solely accountable, we have a transfer team. Despite that, the vast majority of the signings are the manager’s targets. Hughes, Scholes, Cartwright, have all said that. We’ve signed nine players this season, you’ve identified a grand total of one who wasn’t his man and another you think might not have been. That’s a fairly low percentage, no? Re Etebo, I don’t see why Rowett would lie? What would he have to gain by doing it, it’s fairly pointless? He could just say he had nothing to do with it but he’s happy to go with it, much like numerous other managers at numerous clubs around the world do with similar structures in place? Ask Tony pulis. He was the master of lying There’s no real need to lie in this instance though?
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Post by kevkj on Sept 13, 2018 10:37:08 GMT
Promotion and probably a top 8 finish has gone as far as I am concerned. The same liability defenders will keep trotting out until January.In this i include Shawcross,Pieters,BMI,Wiliams all massive over rated and not up to the speed of this league. Then the game will be up for us for this season..
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 13, 2018 10:56:56 GMT
I agree with the opening thread but am more optimistic than most posts.
I think it has dawned on most people now how bad our team really was last season and that there are still a lot of players from last season still in the side. It is also clear now that the Championship is really really tough. Very, very few relegated teams go straight back up to the Prem and almost as many go down to Div1; most linger around in the second tier for many years.
There is a long way to go and our true potential will not be clear till Christmas. Those who have written us off already are just being silly.
As for those who are better. Leeds and Boro have hit the ground running, but I expect they will run out of steam. In Leeds case it is the massive pressure of their unrealistic fans that bears down heavily on the club (players, manager, owners) and eventually they eventually succumb to the pressure (like Newcastle and Liverpool, and in recent years ManU.) Boro will succumb to the pressure of Pulis. He puts massive physical demands on training, which coupled with his constant berating wears the players out.
Rowett is learning about his players the hard way and I'm confident will eventually get them performing as a team. If he is given more support by the owners in January we could yet push on for a playoff place.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 13, 2018 15:09:55 GMT
Ask Tony pulis. He was the master of lying There’s no real need to lie in this instance though? Is there ever a need to lie? You are expert at researching back in time. Look at Mark Hughes comments on every single signing during his time here. Every time he says "x is a player we've been aware of for some time. We were interested in him when I was at x/we saw him when we were looking at x player and have kept tabs on him since". It was rarely, if ever, true. Why would he lie? This club specialises in half truths and mis information at all levels yet you just lap it up all the time without question
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 13, 2018 15:30:12 GMT
There’s no real need to lie in this instance though? Is there ever a need to lie? You are expert at researching back in time. Look at Mark Hughes comments on every single signing during his time here. Every time he says "x is a player we've been aware of for some time. We were interested in him when I was at x/we saw him when we were looking at x player and have kept tabs on him since". It was rarely, if ever, true. Why would he lie? This club specialises in half truths and mis information at all levels yet you just lap it up all the time without question On what basis are you saying it was 'rarely, if ever true'? I don't think people generally lie for the sake of it, no. Utter bullshit to say I lap it up without question. I'm a lot of things but I'm not a happy clapper and I'm no fan of the pizza boys.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 13, 2018 16:39:04 GMT
Is there ever a need to lie? You are expert at researching back in time. Look at Mark Hughes comments on every single signing during his time here. Every time he says "x is a player we've been aware of for some time. We were interested in him when I was at x/we saw him when we were looking at x player and have kept tabs on him since". It was rarely, if ever, true. Why would he lie? This club specialises in half truths and mis information at all levels yet you just lap it up all the time without question On what basis are you saying it was 'rarely, if ever true'? I don't think people generally lie for the sake of it, no. Utter bullshit to say I lap it up without question. I'm a lot of things but I'm not a happy clapper and I'm no fan of the pizza boys. Mark Hughes stopped watching games 3 years into his reign so it was utter bollocks to say he'd been interested in players or keeping tabs on anyone. It's all a load of bollocks. Staff don't get on nor do the players. That is why we are utter shit on and off the pitch
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Post by enuntio on Sept 13, 2018 17:47:43 GMT
Quicker to list the teams that don't look better than us ;-)
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 13, 2018 18:05:54 GMT
There's quite a few so far and that's worrying.
The only team we've looked better than that we've played so far is Hull.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 13, 2018 18:25:06 GMT
Bolton avoiding administration is a huge blow still looking for two more teams who are worse Hull are one but everyone we have played so far will get more than 50 points except hull
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Post by barmystokie1 on Sept 13, 2018 18:32:19 GMT
The international break came at a perfect time so that I didn't have to think about Newcastle Town U11's playing better than our team at the moment.
Lets hope they have finally got to grips with some form of cohesion and a style of play. I think its unfair to expect Woods to transform the team into world beaters overnight but he may just be the catalyst for change as the man who links the play and wants to be on the ball all of the time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 18:48:57 GMT
Don't think we'll be relegated from this league, but it could be a horrible season yet.
Still early days, if things aren't better by late October I'd sack Rowett.
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Post by stokeykez on Sept 13, 2018 19:02:35 GMT
We're still programmed to head for 40 so where will that end us ??
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 13, 2018 20:46:16 GMT
Don't think we'll be relegated from this league, but it could be a horrible season yet. Still early days, if things aren't better by late October I'd sack Rowett. Sacking Rowett won't change much imo. Scholes has to go and we have to have a CEO or someone at that level that actually wants to work with the manager and not try to undermine them at every point.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 14, 2018 7:31:58 GMT
On what basis are you saying it was 'rarely, if ever true'? I don't think people generally lie for the sake of it, no. Utter bullshit to say I lap it up without question. I'm a lot of things but I'm not a happy clapper and I'm no fan of the pizza boys. Mark Hughes stopped watching games 3 years into his reign so it was utter bollocks to say he'd been interested in players or keeping tabs on anyone. It's all a load of bollocks. Staff don't get on nor do the players. That is why we are utter shit on and off the pitch I don't believe for one second that Hughes 'stopped watching games three years into his reign,' sorry. Calling bullshit on that one.
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Post by Squeekster on Sept 14, 2018 8:38:05 GMT
Don't think we'll be relegated from this league, but it could be a horrible season yet. Still early days, if things aren't better by late October I'd sack Rowett. Sacking Rowett won't change much imo. Scholes has to go and we have to have a CEO or someone at that level that actually wants to work with the manager and not try to undermine them at every point. The thing is how long has Scholes and Cartwright been at the club? Everyone is saying get shot of them but the real question is if they were that bad at their jobs they would have been sacked already which leads me to believe someone or some people at the clubs thinks they are doing a good job and the only people that could be is the Coates family, that in my opinion is where the buck stops!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 14, 2018 10:14:34 GMT
Sacking Rowett won't change much imo. Scholes has to go and we have to have a CEO or someone at that level that actually wants to work with the manager and not try to undermine them at every point. The thing is how long has Scholes and Cartwright been at the club? Everyone is saying get shot of them but the real question is if they were that bad at their jobs they would have been sacked already which leads me to believe someone or some people at the clubs thinks they are doing a good job and the only people that could be is the Coates family, that in my opinion is where the buck stops! Why would they? Peter Coates has shown with his interviews that he hasn't got the first idea of the issues that are going at his club. If the Coates' were to leave I really wouldn't be arsed.
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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on Sept 14, 2018 10:58:41 GMT
Madeley White Star under 9's ?
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Post by cousindupree on Sept 14, 2018 11:01:47 GMT
It's been obvious for some time that we needed a highly qualified well respected in Europe Director of football to oversee all aspects of our football matters. It's been a scandal that we have relied on organising the football side of the business being managed by a lightweight ex agent and a fucking accountant. Once Hughes had run out of ideas and exhausted his European contacts we struggled in recruitment.Maybe now we are in the champs such a role is not a top priority
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 14, 2018 11:06:43 GMT
Mark Hughes stopped watching games 3 years into his reign so it was utter bollocks to say he'd been interested in players or keeping tabs on anyone. It's all a load of bollocks. Staff don't get on nor do the players. That is why we are utter shit on and off the pitch I don't believe for one second that Hughes 'stopped watching games three years into his reign,' sorry. Calling bullshit on that one. It's absolutely true. He didn't scout the opposition himself and he stopped going to matches in the way he'd done during his early tenure. Why he stopped doing so is open to debate. Everything that is put in front of you is considered bullshit though so your response isn't particularly surprising. You believe what you want to believe and I'll do likewise.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 14, 2018 11:11:59 GMT
Sacking Rowett won't change much imo. Scholes has to go and we have to have a CEO or someone at that level that actually wants to work with the manager and not try to undermine them at every point. The thing is how long has Scholes and Cartwright been at the club? Everyone is saying get shot of them but the real question is if they were that bad at their jobs they would have been sacked already which leads me to believe someone or some people at the clubs thinks they are doing a good job and the only people that could be is the Coates family, that in my opinion is where the buck stops! Scholes is a fantastic accountant who looks after the family's money just the way the owners want and expect him to. Scholes is going nowhere. Cartwright is Coates Jnr's best friend. He too is going nowhere anytime soon. We were interested in a manager in January who wanted to bring his own Director of Football to the club. He didn't get the job and it went to Lambert instead, much to this candidates surprise. This particular managerial candidate was never mentioned on here and I myself had no idea about it until last weekend. A succession of crap managers is a major issue but add in a crack crap transfer team to the succession of crap managers and nothing is likely to change anytime soon in my opinion.
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Post by Gods on Sept 14, 2018 11:48:39 GMT
The thing is how long has Scholes and Cartwright been at the club? Everyone is saying get shot of them but the real question is if they were that bad at their jobs they would have been sacked already which leads me to believe someone or some people at the clubs thinks they are doing a good job and the only people that could be is the Coates family, that in my opinion is where the buck stops! Scholes is a fantastic accountant who looks after the family's money just the way the owners want and expect him to. Scholes is going nowhere. Cartwright is Coates Jnr's best friend. He too is going nowhere anytime soon. We were interested in a manager in January who wanted to bring his own Director of Football to the club. He didn't get the job and it went to Lambert instead, much to this candidates surprise. This particular managerial candidate was never mentioned on here and I myself had no idea about it until last weekend. A succession of crap managers is a major issue but add in a crack crap transfer team to the succession of crap managers and nothing is likely to change anytime soon in my opinion. First I'm not disputing what you say but I didn't realise managers now come with their own Director of Football? Their own coaching team yes but not a Director of Football. When you say Director of Football do you mean a Cartwright equivalent ? Is he not Technical Director, or is that basically the same thing? Second is Tony Scholes really an accountant?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 14, 2018 11:59:25 GMT
I don't believe for one second that Hughes 'stopped watching games three years into his reign,' sorry. Calling bullshit on that one. It's absolutely true. He didn't scout the opposition himself and he stopped going to matches in the way he'd done during his early tenure. Why he stopped doing so is open to debate. Everything that is put in front of you is considered bullshit though so your response isn't particularly surprising. You believe what you want to believe and I'll do likewise. Not everything is Dave, no, just the pie in the sky stuff that has absolutely no evidence to back it up with. As you say, you dismiss out of hand any statement that doesn't fit your theories, so there's really not much difference.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 14, 2018 12:56:27 GMT
Scholes is a fantastic accountant who looks after the family's money just the way the owners want and expect him to. Scholes is going nowhere. Cartwright is Coates Jnr's best friend. He too is going nowhere anytime soon. We were interested in a manager in January who wanted to bring his own Director of Football to the club. He didn't get the job and it went to Lambert instead, much to this candidates surprise. This particular managerial candidate was never mentioned on here and I myself had no idea about it until last weekend. A succession of crap managers is a major issue but add in a crack crap transfer team to the succession of crap managers and nothing is likely to change anytime soon in my opinion. First I'm not disputing what you say but I didn't realise managers now come with their own Director of Football? Their own coaching team yes but not a Director of Football. When you say Director of Football do you mean a Cartwright equivalent ? Is he not Technical Director, or is that basically the same thing? Second is Tony Scholes really an accountant? Yes. Technical Director/Director of Football...one in the same in my language but one that would have seen Cartwright either demoted or outed. I'm not saying he didn't get it because of that condition but by all accounts he thought he had a very good chance of getting it once the chase for QSF fell through. He didn't expect to lose out to Lambert.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 14, 2018 13:02:54 GMT
It's absolutely true. He didn't scout the opposition himself and he stopped going to matches in the way he'd done during his early tenure. Why he stopped doing so is open to debate. Everything that is put in front of you is considered bullshit though so your response isn't particularly surprising. You believe what you want to believe and I'll do likewise. Not everything is Dave, no, just the pie in the sky stuff that has absolutely no evidence to back it up with. As you say, you dismiss out of hand any statement that doesn't fit your theories, so there's really not much difference. What statements have I dismissed out of hand aside from not believing something that has been said by the manager in terms of scouting a player 5 times since finding out about his impending arrival when he'd barely even been in the job 5 days? Let's not forget, I'm not believing the same guy who only this week said we dominated the stats against Leeds and created the better chances...all with sincerity and a straight face. I can't come on here and name names as to who I find out what from but piecing everything together from different people, I make an observation based on that insight. You on other hand, want smacking in the face with a bit of evidence and even then, you'll discount it. Each to their own.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 14, 2018 13:11:47 GMT
Not everything is Dave, no, just the pie in the sky stuff that has absolutely no evidence to back it up with. As you say, you dismiss out of hand any statement that doesn't fit your theories, so there's really not much difference. What statements have I dismissed out of hand aside from not believing something that has been said by the manager in terms of scouting a player 5 times since finding out about his impending arrival when he'd barely even been in the job 5 days? Let's not forget, I'm not believing the same guy who only this week said we dominated the stats against Leeds and created the better chances...all with sincerity and a straight face. I can't come on here and name names as to who I find out what from but piecing everything together from different people, I make an observation based on that insight. You on other hand, want smacking in the face with a bit of evidence and even then, you'll discount it. Each to their own. Every thing any manager comes out with is immediately discounted by you - all of the transfer team, Rowett and Hughes have basically said the same thing about how the transfer process works and you dismiss it each and every time. It’ll take a bit more than what someone’s mate whispers in their ear or what Clive Clarke says on the radio to convince me otherwise, absolutely. Call me Mr Picky...
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 14, 2018 13:24:55 GMT
What statements have I dismissed out of hand aside from not believing something that has been said by the manager in terms of scouting a player 5 times since finding out about his impending arrival when he'd barely even been in the job 5 days? Let's not forget, I'm not believing the same guy who only this week said we dominated the stats against Leeds and created the better chances...all with sincerity and a straight face. I can't come on here and name names as to who I find out what from but piecing everything together from different people, I make an observation based on that insight. You on other hand, want smacking in the face with a bit of evidence and even then, you'll discount it. Each to their own. Every thing any manager comes out with is immediately discounted by you - all of the transfer team, Rowett and Hughes have basically said the same thing about how the transfer process works and you dismiss it each and every time. It’ll take a bit more than what someone’s mate whispers in their ear or what Clive Clarke says on the radio to convince me otherwise, absolutely. Call me Mr Picky... Fair enough Mr Picky but no-ones mate whispers in my ear. I haven't discounted anything the manager has said about the transfer team. They've each said that they work with the transfer team and make collective decisions on players. That has often resulted in the transfer team failing to get the managers no1 choices and the manager then accepting options 3,4 or even 5 presented to him by the transfer team. Why have we consistently failed to get the managers actual targets and why do we so often end up with the compromise bought about by the transfer team? Is that not a valid question? Some will say the manager has loftier ambitions than the club can support. Others would say that it is a strange coincidence, indicative of where the balance of power lies. Whether I'm right and it is a complete dogs dinner or you are right and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the process, the sum total is the same. The current manager is useless. The previous manager was useless and the one before that became increasingly useless over a period of time. The chuckle brothers, when it comes to ascertaining the qualities of footballers are useless and those are the key individuals who collaborate on signing new players, retaining existing players, and getting shut of players. Each of the managers will ultimately pay for their incompetence with their jobs whilst the chuckle brothers escape unscathed.
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