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Post by Pugsley on Aug 23, 2018 8:55:40 GMT
Do you think we would have been in this mess had Big Sam or TP been appointed. Yes. Clearly we wouldn't. I can't stand either of these pair but the facts are that they have the personality and experience to sort this shower of shit out.
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Post by knowingeye on Aug 23, 2018 9:02:40 GMT
The Dangerous Twins look like a better option, but no point in dreaming.
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Post by Block 22 on Aug 23, 2018 9:09:04 GMT
You can’t just keep sacking managers, it’s obvious the problem lies deeper than that. Rowett puts the players on the pitch, yes I know he picks them, but he doesn’t instruct them to defend like schoolboys does he?
Ince was injured that’s why he was subbed. You could argue Afobe should have been subbed instead of Berahino but despite how badly Afobe was playing you’d still expect him to score before Berahino would. Bojan played out wide because quite simply there’s no one else who can play there.
The only argument from me against Rowett is stop picking Fletcher!!
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Post by kidcrewbob on Aug 23, 2018 9:24:19 GMT
Haven't we learned the lessons of NOT nipping patently bad appointments in the bud yet ? No point sacking Scholes or Cartwright at this time in terms of it having ANY sort of influence over the results now as their part has been and gone over the summer - in fact it would potentially demotivate / unsettle those they have brought in even more so.
We have *some* good players who are just not delivering and/or being played to get the best out of them and that is down to Rowett and him alone.
We need a fresh and experienced set of eyes NOW - not when it's too late in November / December.......
Be decisive for once Coates
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Post by kidcrewbob on Aug 23, 2018 9:31:45 GMT
There's only so many managers you can sack. When things dont go right under 3 different managers, then you have to start looking abit deeper into it. Coates and co promised us changes didn't they? An overhaul? Where is it? What happened to that? This is overstating / misrepresenting the case - Hughes was incumbent for longer than most Prem managers and his sacking was too late - we pretty much all accept this. Lambert doesn't count as he was only ever temporary / backfill - we all knew that & he would probably have left even if he'd kept us up......Rowett however was a considered choice and it's turned out to be a calamitous one - bereft of ideas, highly questionable team choice and woeful subs, seems to have lost at least part of the dressing room & increasingy looks and sounds like a defeted man already - he'd welcome being sacked IMHO..... A win on Saturday will steady the ship of course but for how long and will it just be what the spawny Watford away win did for Hughes all over again - he should have been sacked after the Bournemouth home defeat anyhow it's driving me up the wall....need caffeine...
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 23, 2018 9:46:45 GMT
I'm really not sure how getting the pizza boys out will help results between now and January. The immediate issue is getting points on the board. Like I say they all need to go but charlatan Rowett should be the first out of the door. I know I'll regret asking but how is he a charlatan? Quite simple anyone who gives fletcher 180 plus minutes in less than five days Is nothing other than a charlatan Masquerading as a football manager The ineptitude wether deliberate or not leads to the impression he’s stealing a living
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Post by raythesailor on Aug 23, 2018 9:51:28 GMT
Maybe we should all stop and think. In retrospect Were all our criticisms of Lambert unjust and ill informed. ?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 23, 2018 9:53:09 GMT
Maybe we should all stop and think. In retrospect Were all our criticisms of Lambert unjust and ill informed. ? No. He was a dumpster fire of a manager. He had the team better organised than Rowett but that reflects poorly on the latter rather than well on the former.
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Post by raythesailor on Aug 23, 2018 9:56:24 GMT
Maybe we should all stop and think. In retrospect Were all our criticisms of Lambert unjust and ill informed. ? No. He was a dumpster fire of a manager. He had the team better organised than Rowett but that reflects poorly on the latter rather than well on the former. So they are both crap. They were both working with the same tools, Rowet even got some more and neither did very well.
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Post by britsabroad on Aug 23, 2018 9:58:24 GMT
The board seem reluctant to act on anything. They kept Hughes around at least a year too long. They then dawdled on another obvious failure in Lambert, and now it looks like they're doing it again with Rowett. He's a mid level Championship manager and if that's the level they aspire to then great but it will be a tough road back to the Prem if hes allowed to implement his vision.
As an opposition fan it's clear as day they need to get rid asap or it will be a long season for Stoke.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 23, 2018 10:02:27 GMT
No. He was a dumpster fire of a manager. He had the team better organised than Rowett but that reflects poorly on the latter rather than well on the former. So they are both crap. They were both working with the same tools, Rowet even got some more and neither did very well. In a nutshell.
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Post by crownmeking on Aug 23, 2018 10:11:13 GMT
Sacking Rowett isn’t the answer. But my word he’s making a bad job of it so far. Just on McClean alone he wants sacking. The team has next to no pace or creativity, he failed to address that in the window, there is nothing linking the mid and final 3rd. He has lost or is losing the dressing room, the press reporting players simply walking out of training. He has no idea what formation he wants to play, he had a full preseason to drill the players, it looks like nothing has been done. So to borrow a phrase from you... Wank.
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Post by magwitch on Aug 23, 2018 10:16:45 GMT
Whatever is wrong with Stoke City at present, Gary Rowett is not the cause. He has proved himself to be a talented younger manager on the up. He has not changed overnight. So leave him alone and let him get on with it, whilst ensuring that he can bring in the players that he wants. In January I thought he had opted to stay at Derby, which I thought was an understandable decision. At that time I was in favour of appointing Graham Potter. I have noted that he appears to be doing very well at Swansea and, if he achieves promotion this season, Stoke have probably missed the best chance they have had to resurrect themselves. The problems at Stoke comes from Peter Coates and the Board, and only immediate action from them can make any difference. I believe their easy-going attitude has resulted in the ethos of the whole Club gradually sinking into a festering mess which players have exploited to their own ends. To expect Gary Rowett to sort this out in two or three months is unrealistic.
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Post by maliciousdamage on Aug 23, 2018 10:20:15 GMT
Do you think we would have been in this mess had Big Sam or TP been appointed. Yes. No chance, they can handle senior pros and know how to get the best out of a player either by discipline or ‘kiddums psychology’
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Aug 23, 2018 10:23:35 GMT
I'd normally agree but I can't see one single area where he's improved us, at least Lambert improved us defensively when he came in.
What has GR done?
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Post by maliciousdamage on Aug 23, 2018 10:24:59 GMT
Rowett shoulders some of the blame but it’s mostly down to players he’s inherited. Allen, Pieters, Shawcross, and Fletcher have all been nothing short of woeful. It was the boards decision to keep Allen and ‘build around him’. It’s a terrible decision and it’s really hamstrung Rowett. I’d agree with you there and it’s now time for Rowett if he has any kind of principals to drop these so called undropables and muster a team that can fight and compete to start with if he doesn’t then he’s another Yes man and a fraud and we will be going nowhere. He has to show some balls and tell the hierarchy to butt out and he will do it his way
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Post by maliciousdamage on Aug 23, 2018 10:28:53 GMT
The board seem reluctant to act on anything. They kept Hughes around at least a year too long. They then dawdled on another obvious failure in Lambert, and now it looks like they're doing it again with Rowett. He's a mid level Championship manager and if that's the level they aspire to then great but it will be a tough road back to the Prem if hes allowed to implement his vision. As an opposition fan it's clear as day they need to get rid asap or it will be a long season for Stoke. Coates Snr is far too loyal to Cock up Tony and con man Cartwright he won’t accept they can’t do the job correctly in modern football unless Coates Jnr applies some pressure to act or Snr steps down and let Jnr take over they will keep denying anything is wrong and it will get better
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Post by loosestools on Aug 23, 2018 10:30:43 GMT
The board seem reluctant to act on anything. They kept Hughes around at least a year too long. They then dawdled on another obvious failure in Lambert, and now it looks like they're doing it again with Rowett. He's a mid level Championship manager and if that's the level they aspire to then great but it will be a tough road back to the Prem if hes allowed to implement his vision. As an opposition fan it's clear as day they need to get rid asap or it will be a long season for Stoke. Coates Snr is far too loyal to Cock up Tony and con man Cartwright he won’t accept they can’t do the job correctly in modern football unless Coates Jnr applies some pressure to act or Snr steps down and let Jnr take over they will keep denying anything is wrong and it will get better Not a hope. They are all mates.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 10:39:28 GMT
Isn't Sholrs now on the board? How easy is to sack a board member who probably has shared.
This could be the root problem
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Post by chigstoke on Aug 23, 2018 10:52:22 GMT
Isn't Sholrs now on the board? How easy is to sack a board member who probably has shared. This could be the root problem Well as he is a board member, I would say there would have to be a vote raised in a board meeting, assuming it's in the bylaws of the club.
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Post by maliciousdamage on Aug 23, 2018 10:54:04 GMT
Coates Snr is far too loyal to Cock up Tony and con man Cartwright he won’t accept they can’t do the job correctly in modern football unless Coates Jnr applies some pressure to act or Snr steps down and let Jnr take over they will keep denying anything is wrong and it will get better Not a hope. They are all mates. I know there’s not enough ‘other’ people on the board to force a change it could spell disaster. They could change it by making Cartwright (the last one in effectively) the scape goat they need to rid him then make Scholes Simply commercial ceo ie he runs the day to day aspect of the club. Cartwright is replaced by a senior Director of Football well versed in modern football and responsible for all aspects of players contracts hiring and moving on players dealing with agents etc and deals with the manager directly on these aspects he advises the board on fees contracts etc to gain final approval for the manager to sign or move on players. Will they do this to get us out of this shit show mess I like yourself very much doubt it maybe if we drop another league they may finally realise the truth and act
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Post by crownmeking on Aug 23, 2018 11:28:02 GMT
He has to man manage though, that's a massive part of his job, to get into individual players, motivate them and get them clicking as a unit. He does and I do think he's made a pigs ear of it so far but we shouldn't be calling for his head after 4 games. Ultimately I think his hands have been tied and he hasn't had the support he needs from above. We've been like this for years now and under 3 managers. Changing manager isn't working and it shouldn't be the only solution. I agree, but a change of manager might be our only saving grace at the moment, I think that is more likely than a change of owners or at least a new CEO. Although there were problems with Hughes, he did for a time manage to get us playing some of the best football we ever had, with some decent players, so that does suggest the right manager can make an impact.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 23, 2018 12:01:01 GMT
He does and I do think he's made a pigs ear of it so far but we shouldn't be calling for his head after 4 games. Ultimately I think his hands have been tied and he hasn't had the support he needs from above. We've been like this for years now and under 3 managers. Changing manager isn't working and it shouldn't be the only solution. I agree, but a change of manager might be our only saving grace at the moment, I think that is more likely than a change of owners or at least a new CEO. Although there were problems with Hughes, he did for a time manage to get us playing some of the best football we ever had, with some decent players, so that does suggest the right manager can make an impact. I really don't think it would change much. Who's going to want to come here now with this shower?
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Post by crownmeking on Aug 23, 2018 12:14:30 GMT
I agree, but a change of manager might be our only saving grace at the moment, I think that is more likely than a change of owners or at least a new CEO. Although there were problems with Hughes, he did for a time manage to get us playing some of the best football we ever had, with some decent players, so that does suggest the right manager can make an impact. I really don't think it would change much. Who's going to want to come here now with this shower? Who would come here is another question, and you are right, who would come here at the moment...
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Post by jontimmis on Aug 23, 2018 12:27:56 GMT
We are fooked.. all the positivity has gone!
Can you see us beating Hull Saturday?
Don’t worry I’m sure Fletch, Shawcross, Pieters will all be first names on team sheet.... despite what Rowett says.
I’ve said in other posts “hes searching” for a result which fine games in could read
W = 0 L = 3 D = 2
We could be rock bottom after five games imagine that... infighting and no leadership bodes well....
Next 5
West Brom away - no chance Sheff Weds - maybe a point Swansea - no chance Blackburn - maybe a win Rotherham - maybe a point
So by reckoning 10 games in, 21% of the season gone
We’ll be on 7- 10 points, roll that up by approx five it’s relegation form of you’ve ever seen
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Post by stokeyank on Aug 23, 2018 12:33:10 GMT
Agree with most sacking the manager now would not help much. Sacking Scholes and Cartwright would help. Get someone in with the balls to do what is needed. Negotiate buyouts/terminations of contracts to get rid of the crap clogging the club, empower the manager to do what is needed by bringing some youth into the first team (even if they are not playing much), bench or send home those with crap attitudes and get the commitment back into the squad.
But would Pete sanction such a move, probably not. That may be where the biggest problem is.
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Post by jontimmis on Aug 23, 2018 12:39:05 GMT
It’s primarily a results business... and if he knows we’re shit then tactically he should be making us hard to beat even playing 5 at the back and getting results... but he’s leaving us open all over the pitch from the players he’s picking and the tactics being deployed... 5 games in with no win : @ home.... not good reading is it
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Post by Veritas on Aug 23, 2018 12:39:14 GMT
Agree with most sacking the manager now would not help much. Sacking Scholes and Cartwright would help. Get someone in with the balls to do what is needed. Negotiate buyouts/terminations of contracts to get rid of the crap clogging the club, empower the manager to do what is needed by bringing some youth into the first team (even if they are not playing much), bench or send home those with crap attitudes and get the commitment back into the squad. But would Pete sanction such a move, probably not. That may be where the biggest problem is. I agree Scholes and Cartwright need to go but their departure would have no immediate impact no need to negotiate buy outs or terminations they impact negatively on cash flow and FFP, simply tell the bad apples to stay at home. We quickly need discipline, focus and belief imposing within the squad and if Rowett can do it he needs to go because we are looking into the abyss if we do nothing. That of course leaves the very difficult question of who to replace him but we can't risk doing nothing.
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Post by doctortheopolis on Aug 23, 2018 13:04:18 GMT
I will be the first to admit that Rowett's tactics/systems are poor and his substitutions are also baffling. However, he has inherited a real mess that isn't his fault. Clearly most of the absolute dickheads who caused problems are still here (and draining the financial life out of the club) and he has also got to work with a completely incompetent chief exec and a transfer team that have lumbered us with the aforementioned overpaid pricks. He can't have known from the outside looking in at the problems he was about to face and I think the board are that niave that they won't have articulated this mess to him in the interview process. We are paying for the last 4-5 disasterous transfer windows and the fact that the owners just let Hughes crack on with things when everyone could see how bad things were becoming.
There are also a number of senior players that are letting him down and need to take a long hard fucking look at themselves and grow a pair as Ince has said. This isn't an overnight fix - is there anyone from our first team squad last season that has stayed that you could genuinely say is 100% worthy of a place in the starting XI now we have seen the first 4 games? If we had more cash and loans available, I think Rowett would change all the fuckers at the moment (bar his signings of course)
If Rowett walks or is sacked, it could potentially be a disaster for our club. Not because he is the best manager in the championship but there isn't anyone who is any good who is a)available or b)at another club and would be willing to come after reading the ever growing number of articles about how rotten the club is becoming. If you were a Dean Smith and were at a progressive club that is trying to improve year on year, would you come? Would you bollocks. There is also a reason why Big Sam and Moyes weren't interested in the summer (presuming that they were approached) and certainly wouldn't be interested now, especially as the transfer window is about to shut.
We need some form of stability at the club at the moment as things could spiral quite quickly if not.
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Post by sharonbeech21 on Aug 23, 2018 16:07:36 GMT
The manager and the players need to take responsability for what is going on . Im not sure whether its that Rowett isnt good enough or the players are not playing for him but whatever it is they need to sort it out and quickly
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