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Post by awrypotter on Jul 16, 2018 7:57:02 GMT
I'm afraid any momentum which the positivity had a few weeks ago has all but disappeared sadly. I find it staggering that we have only just made an offer for Chester and also that it was completely unrealistic. Nothing has really changed. We just have another frustrated manager.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jul 16, 2018 8:05:19 GMT
They're all out in force now aren't they? pissy pants Monday is well underway.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 16, 2018 8:09:49 GMT
We have and that's very dangerous. Where's the danger? has he got spikes instead of studs on his boots?! It was three games. And the biggest danger is people are going to expect him to be that player for us from the get go and that'll be really tough for him. I hope he can but if he doesn't then I just hope he's given at least 6 months to get into the swing of things.
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Post by Dingdangdoo on Jul 16, 2018 8:10:17 GMT
Ah, all the transfer and business gurus on here have it sussed
Do you honestly think transfers are an easy process?
Negotiation in the millions - getting value
Contracts - some very complex
Dominoe (not the pizza) effect in play - us down the pecking order
Stoke’s attractiveness to players
Wage structures
Agents playing games
Assumptions that other teams do this quicker/better
Do you HONESTLY think Peter Coates (John and Denise) would let something as bad as some people on here describe really go on???
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Post by tony1234 on Jul 16, 2018 8:11:34 GMT
It is pretty clear that there still need to be changes at the top of the club’s employees. I often imagine 2 Stokies talking: 1st - I use the train BUT I have no idea how to run a railway 2nd - I shop at Asda BUT I have no idea what goes into running a chain of supermarkets 1st - I run a car BUT have no idea how to run a car manufacturer business 2nd - I, along with many others watch and support Stoke City AND we all know what goes into running a successful football club. 1st - How do you reckon that? I would say its an observation of 1. Consistently seeing the trains run late, dirty, and with staff who demonstrate inappropriate behaviours towards each other and their customers. Other train cos, meanwhile, don't have this problem. 2. Seeing Asda consistently out of staple goods, charging prices that are completely absurd and having stock which noone appears to buy because its heaped up in the sale aisle and they can't shift. Other supermarkets, meanwhile, don't. 3. Realising your car manufacturer's cars break down all the time - and depreciate at a huge rate of knots - when other car's dont.
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Post by Dingdangdoo on Jul 16, 2018 8:21:31 GMT
The dithering certainly seems to have reappeared. Comes from the top and filters through the club. If we are genuinely serious about promotion we need to stop fannying around and pay for who we want. Not um and ar, watch our targets go elsewhere and then overspend on others in a knee-jerk panic. Yeh? And once we start doing this all our targets prices go up
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Post by rawli on Jul 16, 2018 8:27:53 GMT
The dithering certainly seems to have reappeared. Comes from the top and filters through the club. If we are genuinely serious about promotion we need to stop fannying around and pay for who we want. Not um and ar, watch our targets go elsewhere and then overspend on others in a knee-jerk panic. Yeh? And once we start doing this all our targets prices go up Well the strategy of being cute and not being held to ransom hasn't really worked over the last few seasons has it? Every day fucking around is a day less prep for the manager and player.
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Post by Dingdangdoo on Jul 16, 2018 8:29:57 GMT
Yeh? And once we start doing this all our targets prices go up Well the strategy of being cute and not being held to ransom hasn't really worked over the last few seasons has it? Every day fucking around is a day less prep for the manager and player. Rawli I agree it’s frustrating, but it’s not an easy process
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Jul 16, 2018 8:39:23 GMT
I doubt the transfer policy will change but to be fair its a huge turnaround and they have to get wages off the books , I'm more worried about how few of last years deadbeats we have got rid of . Bauer and Allen great bits of business but I cant see them getting a promotion squad in place by the end of August will take at least a season to sort things out .
Also maybe Im over pessimistic but all feels a bit groundhog day to hear we hope Bojan makes it and Saido is making good runs been the same for the past two seasons now , great if they deliver but disaster if they dont .
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 16, 2018 8:46:06 GMT
I dunno, Rob. All three were eager to blame Hughes for EVERYTHING 3 months ago. The main thing with 'the process' from Cotes, Teflon and Slopey's point of view seems to be none of them are ever to blame! When you're spending 17M on idiots like Wimmer, the purse strings to me don't seem to be the problem. So Scholes and Carto are acting of their own volition then mate? Why doesn’t Coates have them in and insist they spend more of his money? “Sorry lads, I appreciate the gesture, but I can’t take it with me...” Well I refer you again the Wimmer argument, Rob. Scholes and Cartwright seem to be the sole arbiters of value or are you suggesting that it was Coates who personally decided to fuck around to save tuppence ha'penny on the Indi deal and then pay 4 times over the odds for the effete and wholly hopeless Wimmer. You seem to be giving 'the boys' when hell of a free ride here.
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Post by awrypotter on Jul 16, 2018 8:55:45 GMT
The dithering certainly seems to have reappeared. Comes from the top and filters through the club. If we are genuinely serious about promotion we need to stop fannying around and pay for who we want. Not um and ar, watch our targets go elsewhere and then overspend on others in a knee-jerk panic. Yeh? And once we start doing this all our targets prices go up Surely in the grand scheme of things, paying a few milion extra to get the players we really want at the time we want them in order to give the manager and coaching staff the best chance of a shot at promotion, is a price worth paying? The alternative is to end up with 2nd or third choice players arriving when the season has already started. Peter Coates has said that he wants a squad capable of bouncing straight back. The 'process' we are following at the moment is not the way to achieve that objective imho. I hope that I have to eat my words.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 9:00:09 GMT
Ah, all the transfer and business gurus on here have it sussed Do you honestly think transfers are an easy process? Negotiation in the millions - getting value Contracts - some very complex Dominoe (not the pizza) effect in play - us down the pecking order Stoke’s attractiveness to players Wage structures Agents playing games Assumptions that other teams do this quicker/better Do you HONESTLY think Peter Coates (John and Denise) would let something as bad as some people on here describe really go on??? They did last season and it ended up with us being relegated. Remember "I don't know what all the fuss is about" and "We've got the best squad we've ever had in this division" - 2 of Coates's more memorable statements last year ?
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Post by ladyinred on Jul 16, 2018 9:19:18 GMT
Ah, yet another example of self-indulgent spoiler statements. The cupboard must be so overflowing with such “click bait” that it is impossible to resist. Sad. It's true though. Clubs try not to sign players based on World Cup performances.It's a sensible approach to take. We haven't seen him where it counts yet. That's just obvious. Good job we signed him BEFORE the World Cup then
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 16, 2018 9:23:45 GMT
It's true though. Clubs try not to sign players based on World Cup performances.It's a sensible approach to take. We haven't seen him where it counts yet. That's just obvious. Good job we signed him BEFORE the World Cup then That's not the point though. Fans are essentially judging him on that like a club would with signing a player based on the World Cup. That's what I was getting at and that's a dangerous game.
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Post by Dingdangdoo on Jul 16, 2018 9:26:28 GMT
Ah, all the transfer and business gurus on here have it sussed Do you honestly think transfers are an easy process? Negotiation in the millions - getting value Contracts - some very complex Dominoe (not the pizza) effect in play - us down the pecking order Stoke’s attractiveness to players Wage structures Agents playing games Assumptions that other teams do this quicker/better Do you HONESTLY think Peter Coates (John and Denise) would let something as bad as some people on here describe really go on??? They did last season and it ended up with us being relegated. Remember "I don't know what all the fuss is about" and "We've got the best squad we've ever had in this division" - 2 of Coates's more memorable statements last year ? Bad choice of signings not the actual process though?? Is that why we are taking a bit more time? I’m no expert either...
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 16, 2018 9:27:19 GMT
So Scholes and Carto are acting of their own volition then mate? Why doesn’t Coates have them in and insist they spend more of his money? “Sorry lads, I appreciate the gesture, but I can’t take it with me...” Well I refer you again the Wimmer argument, Rob. Scholes and Cartwright seem to be the sole arbiters of value or are you suggesting that it was Coates who personally decided to fuck around to save tuppence ha'penny on the Indi deal and then pay 4 times over the odds for the effete and wholly hopeless Wimmer. You seem to be giving 'the boys' when hell of a free ride here. I’ve repeatedly said I want ‘the boys’ gone mate, I just think there’s nothing to be gained from the kind of one-eyed zealotry that has it that they’re to blame 100% for every single ill at the club and anything that’s gone right is nothing to do with them. Nothing is that black and white. They’re clearly both chancers who are bad at their job, but they’ll still take direction from top won’t they? It’s the family’s money and they’re the ones ultimately who sanction the spending of it?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 9:34:47 GMT
They did last season and it ended up with us being relegated. Remember "I don't know what all the fuss is about" and "We've got the best squad we've ever had in this division" - 2 of Coates's more memorable statements last year ? Bad choice of signings not the actual process though?? Is that why we are taking a bit more time? I’m no expert either... I'd say it was a combination of bad signings together with Teflon and Hoss "doing their thing" as far as the "process" was concerned ! Coates and the rest of the Board certainly didn't appear to take any action to try to avoid what the rest of the fans could see was staring us in the face from the end of the previous season. 12 months later and we're seemingly still in the same situation.
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Post by bangorstokie on Jul 16, 2018 9:53:14 GMT
It seem we've learnt absolutely fuck all from the last two and half seasons regarding our ability to bring in the quality players we need. It now seems we've lost out on Wilson but having said that why the fuck are we going down the loan route anyway. There must be quality wingers out there available, what the fuck do our scouting team get paid for. Once again Coates has come out with a statement to appease the supporters, saying we are determined build a squad of players to help us bounce straight back to the PL. Really? I'll believe when I see it. Our whole transfer team and policy suck.God knows what Rowett thinks he's let him self in for,but the way things are being handled at the moment he's gonna find out pretty sharpish!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 9:58:14 GMT
The old phrase "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"— ("the more it changes, the more it's the same thing") appears to be very apt yet again with regard to our transfer policy and "process".
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Post by Pirate on Jul 16, 2018 10:00:02 GMT
Thing that worries me aside from us not getting the players we need is that i dont think GR is the kinda guy to suffer people messing about & broken promises. I am sure the club made assurances of performance in the transfer market & as mentioned, first it was start of pre-season, then before Germany, how long before its " we couldn't quite get the deals over the line ".
I dont really think its knicker wetting when the 2 people we are talking about have such exquisite form for making a complete mess of transfer windows.
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Post by greyman on Jul 16, 2018 10:00:32 GMT
We've bought Afobe who scores 1 in 2 in The Championship. There. Fixed it for you. May I point out: 1. Yes he has scored 13 goals in 21 matches in 2014-15; that's 3 years ago. 2. Before then he achieved very little. 3. Since then, he has scored 9 in 25 in 2015-16, and 6 in 16 in 2017-18. That's hardly "scores 1 in 2". 4. In between he has scored 10 goals in 63 matches in the Prem., so he won't be much use if we are promoted. So he is not as good a Jon Walters was. 5. Oh, and by the way, we haven't bought him yet, but if he proves to be not up to standard we are still stuck with him. Would that things can be "fixed" so easily. A month ago I was very optimistic, today I feel like storm clouds are gathering and we are going to start the new season without the players the manager wanted and not fully prepared, still we should be used to that. "I don't like facts. I find they tend to cloud my judgement" Just cut and paste that into your statement instead.
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Post by Dingdangdoo on Jul 16, 2018 10:01:15 GMT
From where we finished and people thought we’d be...
We’ve signed
Afobe Etebo Allen Bauer Shawcross Butland (hopefully) Sorensen Federici
Sold
Shaqiri
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Post by mrred on Jul 16, 2018 10:02:47 GMT
Still sickens me that the two parasites are employed by the club after the shambles they've bought to our door for the last 2 years.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 16, 2018 10:09:01 GMT
Well I refer you again the Wimmer argument, Rob. Scholes and Cartwright seem to be the sole arbiters of value or are you suggesting that it was Coates who personally decided to fuck around to save tuppence ha'penny on the Indi deal and then pay 4 times over the odds for the effete and wholly hopeless Wimmer. You seem to be giving 'the boys' when hell of a free ride here. I’ve repeatedly said I want ‘the boys’ gone mate, I just think there’s nothing to be gained from the kind of one-eyed zealotry that has it that they’re to blame 100% for every single ill at the club and anything that’s gone right is nothing to do with them. Nothing is that black and white. They’re clearly both chancers who are bad at their job, but they’ll still take direction from top won’t they? It’s the family’s money and they’re the ones ultimately who sanction the spending of it? Agree with most of that but just like Coates lets his managers manage I think he relies on 'the boy's' to decide where the value is. If he's prepared to sanction 17 Mill on a Spurs reserve I sincerely doubt whether purse strings are the issue. Not sacking the pair of feckless goons. is the issue.
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Post by cousindupree on Jul 16, 2018 10:09:42 GMT
It seem we've learnt absolutely fuck all from the last two and half seasons regarding our ability to bring in the quality players we need. It now seems we've lost out on Wilson but having said that why the fuck are we going down the loan route anyway. There must be quality wingers out there available, what the fuck do our scouting team get paid for. Once again Coates has come out with a statement to appease the supporters, saying we are determined build a squad of players to help us bounce straight back to the PL. Really? I'll believe when I see it. Our whole transfer team and policy suck.God knows what Rowett thinks he's let him self in for,but the way things are being handled at the moment he's gonna find out pretty sharpish!! Our crack scouting team have scoured the world for wingers and come up with a couple of gems on their doorstep in Ritchie and McClean The worry for me is that the Pizza boys may well have confused signing McClean and Ritchie with headline acts for a possible upcoming music gig at the bet. Wouldn't surprise me. Come to think of it I would much sooner see Don at the Bet than James.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 16, 2018 10:12:31 GMT
It seem we've learnt absolutely fuck all from the last two and half seasons regarding our ability to bring in the quality players we need. It now seems we've lost out on Wilson but having said that why the fuck are we going down the loan route anyway. There must be quality wingers out there available, what the fuck do our scouting team get paid for. Once again Coates has come out with a statement to appease the supporters, saying we are determined build a squad of players to help us bounce straight back to the PL. Really? I'll believe when I see it. Our whole transfer team and policy suck.God knows what Rowett thinks he's let him self in for,but the way things are being handled at the moment he's gonna find out pretty sharpish!! Our crack scouting team have scoured the world for wingers and come up with a couple of gems on their doorstep in Ritchie and McClean The worry for me is that the Pizza boys may well have confused signing McClean and Ritchie with headline acts for a possible upcoming music gig at the bet. Wouldn't surprise me. Come to think of it I would much sooner see Don at the Bet than James. Ritchie and McClean are Rowett signings, no?
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Post by rawli on Jul 16, 2018 10:15:41 GMT
Our crack scouting team have scoured the world for wingers and come up with a couple of gems on their doorstep in Ritchie and McClean The worry for me is that the Pizza boys may well have confused signing McClean and Ritchie with headline acts for a possible upcoming music gig at the bet. Wouldn't surprise me. Come to think of it I would much sooner see Don at the Bet than James. Ritchie and McClean are Rowett signings, no? Depends if they are any good
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Post by bangorstokie on Jul 16, 2018 10:24:08 GMT
Our crack scouting team have scoured the world for wingers and come up with a couple of gems on their doorstep in Ritchie and McClean The worry for me is that the Pizza boys may well have confused signing McClean and Ritchie with headline acts for a possible upcoming music gig at the bet. Wouldn't surprise me. Come to think of it I would much sooner see Don at the Bet than James. Ritchie and McClean are Rowett signings, no? Errm. .....I don't think we've signed them have we?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 16, 2018 10:32:15 GMT
Ritchie and McClean are Rowett signings, no? Errm. .....I don't think we've signed them have we? They are Rowett targets then, if you like?
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 16, 2018 10:44:56 GMT
I am getting very concerned: 1. We had the leakiest defence in the Prem. last season and have done nothing to strengthen it. We have let Grant go. We are probably better off without Wimmer and Johnson than having them with us, but if people think last season's defence will be alright in the Championship I think that could be a big mistake. Even Middlesbrough, who had a decent defence in the Prem, struggled to start with in the Championship. 2. We were poor at scoring goals last season and have signed 1 striker. I think Crouch will be useful in the Championship, but a we going to be are we sure we can rely on Diouf, Bojan, Choupo, and the youngsters? We have had to release our main strike force in Shaq, which sounds ominously like losing Arni last summer, and bought Afobe, who scores 6 goals a season. Where are the goals going to come from? Our best striker is Crouch! 3. We have sold 2 wingers and are now going to do our major preparation for the season in Germany without a proper winger. That smacks of bad management by the club. It sounds like the plan is we do all the preparation and then throw wingers in at the last moment. Regarding McLean we should have bought him by now, if we are going to; if WBA won''t play ball, then move on to someone else. 4. The transfer business has been generally poor for the last 3 years and has no sign of getting better. I think we are still sleep walking down the league. I just hope Rowett is going to miraculously get the defence organized, turn certain players careers around, and get us scoring goals. It's a huge ask. If we don't make any significant signings in the next week, and I don't include Robert Huth, then Rowett needs to be banging on the Chairman's door when he gets back from Germany, and raising Cain. Edit: Having read that back to myself I'm beginning to understand how a Sunderland fan feels. Your comments on Afobe are embarrassing, check your facts before posting such nonsense.I do check my facts when I post. I hope Afobe will be a huge success, but you should remind yourself of the facts which I posted earlier and expand on below: The facts are: Fact 1. He scored 13 goals in 21 matches in 2014-15; that's 3 years ago and seems to be the basis of a "goal every 2 games" reputation. Fact 2. Before then he achieved very little. Fact 3. Since then, he has scored 14 goals in 2015-16, 6 goals in 2016-17, and 6 goals in 2017-18. Fact 4. In between 2015 and 2018, he has scored 10 goals in 63 matches in the Prem., spread over 3 seasons, not as good a Jon Walters strike rate in the Prem. I didn't post nonsense. My comments may be embarrassing to you, or possibly Afobe, but not me. Please read: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benik_Afobe
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