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Post by Olgrligm on Jul 14, 2018 23:17:37 GMT
Every now and then I wonder what on Earth happened in the 2010 World Cup.
Capello had a system that was terrific. England won every single game in qualifying apart from one dead rubber against Ukraine, with an average of 3.4 goals for per game, and conceding almost a goal every other game, and the whole system revolved around the decidedly unfashionable Gareth Barry. He was getting a tune out of Rooney.
Look at what happened in the World Cup. For no reason whatsoever, Gerrard and Lampard were shoehorned into a midfield two, and Barry was dropped. When this went wrong, Barry was brought back, but Gerrard was shunted out to the left wing in order to accommodate this. He either totally lost the plot, or buckled under commercial pressures. What really went on? I struggle to believe that the best manager in the world at the time suddenly became a complete incompetent.
On the subject of Sven, things had gone stale towards the end, but the impact he had in taking over from Keegan and dealing with the team's mental problems shouldn't be forgotten. The turnaround from the stodgy 1-0 defeat to Germany at Wembley to the 5-1 win at Munich was astonishing.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 14, 2018 23:27:25 GMT
Every now and then I wonder what on Earth happened in the 2010 World Cup. Capello had a system that was terrific. England won every single game in qualifying apart from one dead rubber against Ukraine, with an average of 3.4 goals for per game, and conceding almost a goal every other game, and the whole system revolved around the decidedly unfashionable Gareth Barry. He was getting a tune out of Rooney. Look at what happened in the World Cup. For no reason whatsoever, Gerrard and Lampard were shoehorned into a midfield two, and Barry was dropped. When this went wrong, Barry was brought back, but Gerrard was shunted out to the left wing in order to accommodate this. He either totally lost the plot, or buckled under commercial pressures. What really went on? I struggle to believe that the best manager in the world at the time suddenly became a complete incompetent. On the subject of Sven, things had gone stale towards the end, but the impact he had in taking over from Keegan and dealing with the team's mental problems shouldn't be forgotten. The turnaround from the stodgy 1-0 defeat to Germany at Wembley to the 5-1 win at Munich was astonishing. Sven was a good England manager. Many of those who think otherwise are the ones who seem to think we should be winning the world cup. Capello never shrugged off the aura of the catastrophic 2010 world cup. Which is understandable. Tournaments are what international managing is about. But his win percentage is the highest ever for an England manager at 66%. ( don't mention Sam😊😊) So you can't say Capello was tragic. His methods just didn't translate to tournament situations.
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 14, 2018 23:35:26 GMT
Every now and then I wonder what on Earth happened in the 2010 World Cup. Capello had a system that was terrific. England won every single game in qualifying apart from one dead rubber against Ukraine, with an average of 3.4 goals for per game, and conceding almost a goal every other game, and the whole system revolved around the decidedly unfashionable Gareth Barry. He was getting a tune out of Rooney. Look at what happened in the World Cup. For no reason whatsoever, Gerrard and Lampard were shoehorned into a midfield two, and Barry was dropped. When this went wrong, Barry was brought back, but Gerrard was shunted out to the left wing in order to accommodate this. He either totally lost the plot, or buckled under commercial pressures. What really went on? I struggle to believe that the best manager in the world at the time suddenly became a complete incompetent. On the subject of Sven, things had gone stale towards the end, but the impact he had in taking over from Keegan and dealing with the team's mental problems shouldn't be forgotten. The turnaround from the stodgy 1-0 defeat to Germany at Wembley to the 5-1 win at Munich was astonishing. Sven was a good England manager. Many of those who think otherwise are the ones who seem to think we should be winning the world cup. Capello never shrugged off the aura of the catastrophic 2010 world cup. Which is understandable. Tournaments are what international managing is about. But his win percentage is the highest ever for an England manager at 66%. ( don't mention Sam😊😊) So you can't say Capello was tragic. His methods just didn't translate to tournament situations. I'm predicting that we will get the opposite with Southgate Generally, I think England will still struggle because there is a massive dearth of talent amongst the pool of players to choose from. Only approx. 40 English players available at Prem League level and alot of them are sitting on the bench most weeks. Yes, there is young talent but it wont develop because of how the Prem League works. Southgate had a decent tournament but it was one cup competition. Wigan won the FA Cup and look at how that panned out.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 14, 2018 23:37:35 GMT
Sven was a good England manager. Many of those who think otherwise are the ones who seem to think we should be winning the world cup. Capello never shrugged off the aura of the catastrophic 2010 world cup. Which is understandable. Tournaments are what international managing is about. But his win percentage is the highest ever for an England manager at 66%. ( don't mention Sam😊😊) So you can't say Capello was tragic. His methods just didn't translate to tournament situations. I'm predicting that we will get the opposite with Southgate Generally, I think England will still struggle because there is a massive dearth of talent amongst the pool of players to choose from. Only approx. 40 English players available at Prem League level and alot of them are sitting on the bench most weeks. Yes, there is young talent but it wont develop because of how the Prem League works. Southgate had a decent tournament but it was one cup competition. Wigan won the FA Cup and look at how that panned out. There's an obvious solution for those English players.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jul 14, 2018 23:38:01 GMT
Every now and then I wonder what on Earth happened in the 2010 World Cup. Capello had a system that was terrific. England won every single game in qualifying apart from one dead rubber against Ukraine, with an average of 3.4 goals for per game, and conceding almost a goal every other game, and the whole system revolved around the decidedly unfashionable Gareth Barry. He was getting a tune out of Rooney. Look at what happened in the World Cup. For no reason whatsoever, Gerrard and Lampard were shoehorned into a midfield two, and Barry was dropped. When this went wrong, Barry was brought back, but Gerrard was shunted out to the left wing in order to accommodate this. He either totally lost the plot, or buckled under commercial pressures. What really went on? I struggle to believe that the best manager in the world at the time suddenly became a complete incompetent. On the subject of Sven, things had gone stale towards the end, but the impact he had in taking over from Keegan and dealing with the team's mental problems shouldn't be forgotten. The turnaround from the stodgy 1-0 defeat to Germany at Wembley to the 5-1 win at Munich was astonishing. Sven was a good England manager. Many of those who think otherwise are the ones who seem to think we should be winning the world cup. Capello never shrugged off the aura of the catastrophic 2010 world cup. Which is understandable. Tournaments are what international managing is about. But his win percentage is the highest ever for an England manager at 66%. ( don't mention Sam😊😊) So you can't say Capello was tragic. His methods just didn't translate to tournament situations. I think that things had just gone stale by the end. There were all of the scandals in the press, the fake sheikh, the meetings with Chelsea representatives - it all just felt very sleazy, and the momentum from the early years had been lost. Despite that, there were no problems qualifying for tournaments and we consistently got to quarter finals. Certain other England managers would kill for that record. Thinking back, the other baffling thing with Capello was how he got even the basics wrong. That wasn't down to him being too strict for a tournament, it was down to mad tactics. He played two of the slowest centre backs on the planet against Germany, and had them playing a suicidally high line. Why?! He'd never done that in his prior England career. I just didn't get it at all, because he's an excellent manager.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 14, 2018 23:43:54 GMT
Sven was a good England manager. Many of those who think otherwise are the ones who seem to think we should be winning the world cup. Capello never shrugged off the aura of the catastrophic 2010 world cup. Which is understandable. Tournaments are what international managing is about. But his win percentage is the highest ever for an England manager at 66%. ( don't mention Sam😊😊) So you can't say Capello was tragic. His methods just didn't translate to tournament situations. I think that things had just gone stale by the end. There were all of the scandals in the press, the fake sheikh, the meetings with Chelsea representatives - it all just felt very sleazy, and the momentum from the early years had been lost. Despite that, there were no problems qualifying for tournaments and we consistently got to quarter finals. Certain other England managers would kill for that record. Thinking back, the other baffling thing with Capello was how he got even the basics wrong. That wasn't down to him being too strict for a tournament, it was down to mad tactics. He played two of the slowest centre backs on the planet against Germany, and had them playing a suicidally high line. Why?! He'd never done that in his prior England career. I just didn't get it at all, because he's an excellent manager. Capello is a traditional Italian. Brought up in a bath filled with catennacio. Intensely tactical and deep preparation and approach. In tgat respect he probably struggled to react to the unwillingness of English players to adapt to different possibilities and systems.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 14, 2018 23:46:37 GMT
I haven't read all the comments on this thread, so apologies if someone else has said this, but I like Southgate's honesty in saying although we finished fourth we are not a top four side.
I reckon at least 4 or 5 teams who didn't go as far as us were better than us, and the draw we had was flattering. Today's game showed the gulf between us and the better sides.
Our lack of comfort on the ball in comparison to Belgium was startling.
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Post by Gods on Jul 15, 2018 0:03:43 GMT
I haven't read all the comments on this thread, so apologies if someone else has said this, but I like Southgate's honesty in saying although we finished fourth we are not a top four side. I reckon at least 4 or 5 teams who didn't go as far as us were better than us, and the draw we had was flattering. Today's game showed the gulf between us and the better sides. Our lack of comfort on the ball in comparison to Belgium was startling. I agree with all of that.
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Post by werrington on Jul 15, 2018 9:44:33 GMT
I haven't read all the comments on this thread, so apologies if someone else has said this, but I like Southgate's honesty in saying although we finished fourth we are not a top four side. I reckon at least 4 or 5 teams who didn't go as far as us were better than us, and the draw we had was flattering. Today's game showed the gulf between us and the better sides. Our lack of comfort on the ball in comparison to Belgium was startling. Thing is mate, when France won it in 98 they weren’t the best side either but look at what they went onto achieve despite a blip in 02 All good things start somewhere
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 15, 2018 9:47:22 GMT
I haven't read all the comments on this thread, so apologies if someone else has said this, but I like Southgate's honesty in saying although we finished fourth we are not a top four side. I reckon at least 4 or 5 teams who didn't go as far as us were better than us, and the draw we had was flattering. Today's game showed the gulf between us and the better sides. Our lack of comfort on the ball in comparison to Belgium was startling. Thing is mate, when France won it in 98 they weren’t the best side either but look at what they went onto achieve despite a blip in 02 All good things start somewhere For sure, there were positives, and I didn’t mean to be harsh. I just liked Southgate's appraisal; very measured.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Jul 15, 2018 9:58:27 GMT
What encourages me is that for the first time for longer than I can remember we have a manager who is building a team not trying to find one from the best players . That is a big difference . This tournament was work on progress for this group and they have done ok .
Even yesterday against a team with superior players they had a spell in the game where they should have scored .
Kane has been nowhere near his best since the group stage Alli is nowhere near his best and Sterling still needs to work on his finishing but all of them are hopefully gpomg to get better .
We have other young players coming through and they need game time as does the likes of Rashford for their clubs so it's not all in Southgates control .
We really need to find a playmaker Foden has immense potential and at least Ox will keep getting better at Liverpool in a central role but that is the area . Crack that and we might be in with a shout in two years time .
My only reservation about Southgate is does he have that winning mentality . He has proved both as a player and coach to be very good but winning is a step beyond very good .
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Post by redstriper on Jul 15, 2018 10:31:26 GMT
I like Southgate and I hope he stays in the job. He did well with a very limited squad.
But tactically, he had no plan B, he was myopic about the contributions of his first choice players and he was wrong imo not to give some other an outing against Belgium yesterday. I'm concerned that might have been becuase if welbeck for example had played and had a stormer yesterday he would have been criticised for not using him more.
I believe he is currently too conservative and possibly risk adverse. Hopefully he will learn from this tourno as he clearly is more intelligent than most. I think he treated the whole tournament as part of the learning curve, preparation for next time, and whilst i could no way see us winning the final i think the way it panned out we missed a big chance to be playing today.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 15, 2018 10:53:29 GMT
2020 is a big tournament for Southo and England.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 15, 2018 11:00:23 GMT
Another good performance yesterday. Another day when a player, despite being nowhere near fully fit, played simply because of his reputation.
Sweden game aside, england have been largely crap with a couple of players excellent performances masking how inept the rest have been
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 11:01:09 GMT
Southgate to me is, the product of a flawed system -He did ok to be fair but even so, put out a team with obvious limitations contained within. My take, England did ok but were never, ever going to win it. Next step in the dance is ;- where on earth is Southgate going to find those extra two or three players that would make England capable of actually winning something ? because, to my eyes-they do not exist exactly because of said 'flawed system'.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 15, 2018 11:02:57 GMT
What encourages me is that for the first time for longer than I can remember we have a manager who is building a team not trying to find one from the best players . That is a big difference . This tournament was work on progress for this group and they have done ok . Even yesterday against a team with superior players they had a spell in the game where they should have scored . Kane has been nowhere near his best since the group stage Alli is nowhere near his best and Sterling still needs to work on his finishing but all of them are hopefully gpomg to get better . We have other young players coming through and they need game time as does the likes of Rashford for their clubs so it's not all in Southgates control . We really need to find a playmaker Foden has immense potential and at least Ox will keep getting better at Liverpool in a central role but that is the area . Crack that and we might be in with a shout in two years time . My only reservation about Southgate is does he have that winning mentality . He has proved both as a player and coach to be very good but winning is a step beyond very good . How do you explain the continued selection of harry kane then the refusal to sub him when he was contributing absolutely nothing then?
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Post by werrington on Jul 15, 2018 11:08:59 GMT
What encourages me is that for the first time for longer than I can remember we have a manager who is building a team not trying to find one from the best players . That is a big difference . This tournament was work on progress for this group and they have done ok . Even yesterday against a team with superior players they had a spell in the game where they should have scored . Kane has been nowhere near his best since the group stage Alli is nowhere near his best and Sterling still needs to work on his finishing but all of them are hopefully gpomg to get better . We have other young players coming through and they need game time as does the likes of Rashford for their clubs so it's not all in Southgates control . We really need to find a playmaker Foden has immense potential and at least Ox will keep getting better at Liverpool in a central role but that is the area . Crack that and we might be in with a shout in two years time . My only reservation about Southgate is does he have that winning mentality . He has proved both as a player and coach to be very good but winning is a step beyond very good . How do you explain the continued selection of harry kane then the refusal to sub him when he was contributing absolutely nothing then? Harry Kane is a funny one mate although I do agree to a certain degree If he’d taken off the World Cup leading scorer in a match we had to win he’d of been slaughtered from all quarters
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 15, 2018 11:10:11 GMT
Southgate to me is, the product of a flawed system -He did ok to be fair but even so, put out a team with obvious limitations contained within. My take, England did ok but were never, ever going to win it. Next step in the dance is ;- where on earth is Southgate going to find those extra two or three players that would make England capable of actually winning something ? because, to my eyes-they do not exist exactly because of said 'flawed system'. There are them young talented players. Many won't be getting regular gametime for a while though. I'd like see some of them loaned out to continental teams. The experience of living overseas will help development as people as well as footballers and helps them become better players
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 13:20:03 GMT
Maybe, send them all to Australia so they can thrive in a massively competitive and indigenous sporting culture 😊
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 15, 2018 19:02:32 GMT
Maybe, send them all to Australia so they can thrive in a massively competitive and indigenous sporting culture 😊 Indigenous?
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jul 15, 2018 19:32:53 GMT
Another good performance yesterday. Another day when a player, despite being nowhere near fully fit, played simply because of his reputation. Sweden game aside, england have been largely crap with a couple of players excellent performances masking how inept the rest have been I thought we played well against a very decent columbia side. We controlled most of that game and were very unlucky it went to penalties. We recovered well in extra time in that game to make the best chances.
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Jul 16, 2018 11:16:54 GMT
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Post by starkiller on Jul 16, 2018 18:47:36 GMT
Talk of him getting knighted.
What a world of hyperbole we live in. Truly laughable.
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Jul 16, 2018 19:14:46 GMT
A knighthood would be a bit far, he's done a good job but...
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Post by duckling on Jul 16, 2018 19:19:40 GMT
I find it odd that Southgate insisted that there be no reception for the players and told fans to stay away from the airport.
The Belgian players had an official public reception, and the Croatian players had a bus parade.
Surely making the semifinals after decades of humiliation warranted some sort of reception, no?
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Post by starkiller on Jul 16, 2018 19:25:14 GMT
I find it odd that Southgate insisted that there be no reception for the players and told fans to stay away from the airport. The Belgian players had an official public reception, and the Croatian players had a bus parade. Surely making the semifinals after decades of humiliation warranted some sort of reception, no? No. It would be embarrassing.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jul 16, 2018 19:30:19 GMT
Every now and then I wonder what on Earth happened in the 2010 World Cup. Capello had a system that was terrific. England won every single game in qualifying apart from one dead rubber against Ukraine, with an average of 3.4 goals for per game, and conceding almost a goal every other game, and the whole system revolved around the decidedly unfashionable Gareth Barry. He was getting a tune out of Rooney. Look at what happened in the World Cup. For no reason whatsoever, Gerrard and Lampard were shoehorned into a midfield two, and Barry was dropped. When this went wrong, Barry was brought back, but Gerrard was shunted out to the left wing in order to accommodate this. He either totally lost the plot, or buckled under commercial pressures. What really went on? I struggle to believe that the best manager in the world at the time suddenly became a complete incompetent. On the subject of Sven, things had gone stale towards the end, but the impact he had in taking over from Keegan and dealing with the team's mental problems shouldn't be forgotten. The turnaround from the stodgy 1-0 defeat to Germany at Wembley to the 5-1 win at Munich was astonishing. Sven was a good England manager. Many of those who think otherwise are the ones who seem to think we should be winning the world cup. Capello never shrugged off the aura of the catastrophic 2010 world cup. Which is understandable. Tournaments are what international managing is about. But his win percentage is the highest ever for an England manager at 66%. ( don't mention Sam😊😊) So you can't say Capello was tragic. His methods just didn't translate to tournament situations. I thought Sven was a good England manager, but given the players available at the time I think England underachieved.
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Post by duckling on Jul 16, 2018 19:30:39 GMT
I find it odd that Southgate insisted that there be no reception for the players and told fans to stay away from the airport. The Belgian players had an official public reception, and the Croatian players had a bus parade. Surely making the semifinals after decades of humiliation warranted some sort of reception, no? No. It would be embarrassing. Didn't they get a reception in 1990? I'm not talking about an open top bus parade, but some sort of public reception would have been nice for the players who achieved the highest placement in decades and conducted themselves in an exemplary manner both on and off the pitch.
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Jul 16, 2018 20:03:27 GMT
No. It would be embarrassing. Didn't they get a reception in 1990? I'm not talking about an open top bus parade, but some sort of public reception would have been nice for the players who achieved the highest placement in decades and conducted themselves in an exemplary manner both on and off the pitch. Yeah they did - wasn't this picture from then? Iconic Gazza moment.
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Post by Northy on Jul 16, 2018 20:42:03 GMT
A knighthood would be a bit far, he's done a good job but... Was too nice with his favourites? I thought his subs were wrong and too late v Croatia, we could have made the final
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