|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 6:59:06 GMT
Loved the feel good factor around the country - and he's handled himself flawlessly. But last night was as bad and depressing a performance as anything we've seen from England in the last 20 years (apart from Iceland!) And he seemed like a rabbit in the headlights a bit. We were good first half, the game should have been over at halftime, this time we paid for missing chances.
|
|
|
Post by GeneralFaye on Jul 12, 2018 6:59:38 GMT
Loved the feel good factor around the country - and he's handled himself flawlessly. But last night was as bad and depressing a performance as anything we've seen from England in the last 20 years (apart from Iceland!) And he seemed like a rabbit in the headlights a bit. As bad as anything in the last 20 years?!... nah, I'm not having that one bit.
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Jul 12, 2018 7:02:03 GMT
Loved the feel good factor around the country - and he's handled himself flawlessly. But last night was as bad and depressing a performance as anything we've seen from England in the last 20 years (apart from Iceland!) And he seemed like a rabbit in the headlights a bit. As bad as anything in the last 20 years?!... nah, I'm not having that one bit. I'm mainly thinking about World Cup/Euros, rather than routine qualifiers. I thought we played better against Uruguay and Italy in Brazil, for example. I'm not going to tear into them, because they don't deserve it. But I thought we were close to awful for the last 75 minutes
|
|
|
Post by bloodtypered on Jul 12, 2018 7:12:16 GMT
Was Loftus Cheek injured? He was impressive whenever he played yet we barely saw him past the group stages. My only criticisim was that he wasnt used last night
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Jul 12, 2018 7:13:48 GMT
As bad as anything in the last 20 years?!... nah, I'm not having that one bit. I'm mainly thinking about World Cup/Euros, rather than routine qualifiers. I thought we played better against Uruguay and Italy in Brazil, for example. I'm not going to tear into them, because they don't deserve it. But I thought we were close to awful for the last 75 minutes We had no midfield and had obviously decided to go long ball on every occasion to hit Sterling The decision to take Sterling off who was our only outlet and not Alli/Lingard was bizarre as they along with Kane ( who you can’t take off ) meant we were ultimately done for A disappointing end to a very good tournament
|
|
|
Post by Kjones9 on Jul 12, 2018 7:19:58 GMT
He needs a plan B.
He needs to stop picking some of these players that are clearly out of form.
Granted he's down well and they've overachieved but if he's given a free ride he won't learn.
|
|
|
Post by bloodtypered on Jul 12, 2018 7:38:11 GMT
We were the younger side, but we used all energy in the first half, they paced themselves better
|
|
|
Post by westgatelakes on Jul 12, 2018 8:01:18 GMT
To be fair, Southgate has done a good job so far, not an outstanding one or we would be playing France on Sunday as opposed to Belgium on Saturday.
However, England had only beaten Panama, Tunisia, Columbia and Sweden on their way to the semi final, so lets put things into perspective ..... he`s not quite ready for a knighthood just yet.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 12, 2018 8:15:54 GMT
To be fair, Southgate has done a good job so far, not an outstanding one or we would be playing France on Sunday as opposed to Belgium on Saturday. However, England had only beaten Panama, Tunisia, Columbia and Sweden on their way to the semi final, so lets put things into perspective ..... he`s not quite ready for a knighthood just yet. Also to be fair, England were knocked out of Euro 2016 by Iceland and were outqualified by Costa Rica at Brazil 2014 and that’s the context, for all the criticisms of last night and some of his handling of games, that we should be viewing things in. For all the ‘it was onlys’, those teams have embarrassed us in recent times. This is at least something to build on.
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Jul 12, 2018 8:17:22 GMT
The question we should be asking is how come a nation with a population of 4 million, which probably doesn't invest anywhere near the amounts we do in the game, produce technically better players than England ? we have nobody like Moderic and haven't had a technically gifted midfielder since Gascoigne.
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Jul 12, 2018 8:40:59 GMT
To be fair, Southgate has done a good job so far, not an outstanding one or we would be playing France on Sunday as opposed to Belgium on Saturday. However, England had only beaten Panama, Tunisia, Columbia and Sweden on their way to the semi final, so lets put things into perspective ..... he`s not quite ready for a knighthood just yet. We got to the SFs in the side of the draw that would of included Germany Argentina and Spain They weren’t in the SFs due to those “ only “ teams we’d played/beaten seeing them off
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Jul 12, 2018 9:24:38 GMT
To be fair, Southgate has done a good job so far, not an outstanding one or we would be playing France on Sunday as opposed to Belgium on Saturday. N However, England had only beaten Panama, Tunisia, Columbia and Sweden on their way to the semi final, so lets put things into perspective ..... he`s not quite ready for a knighthood just yet. Also to be fair, England were knocked out of Euro 2016 by Iceland and were outqualified by Costa Rica at Brazil 2014 and that’s the context, for all the criticisms of last night and some of his handling of games, that we should be viewing things in. For all the ‘it was onlys’, those teams have embarrassed us in recent times. This is at least something to build on. I'm more inclined to put the shocking performances at those two tournaments to the worst national team manager we have ever had. Hodgson was completely hopeless as England boss. A disaster. It's weird how he came back into club football and was able to turn around CP. Southgate has returned us to our more traditional position of beating sides we would expect to beat, but not having the class to beat good sides. Which is an Moro event from Hodgson, but isn't the revolution some would appear to think has happened!
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Jul 12, 2018 9:29:06 GMT
I think the end result of a semi-final place was extraordinary given the results which were: Won: Tunisia, Panama, Sweden Drew: Columbia Lost: Belgium, Croatia 12 goals in 6 games looks decent but 6 of them came against Panama. And I think of the 12 goals we only managed 2 from open play in 6 matches. I just hope we haven't used up all our luck for the next 30 years in getting there. As for the story touted around last night and today that this young England team is somehow 4 years ahead of schedule, I don't really buy that, Brazil/Germany/Argentina/Italy et al will be back big and bad next time around, you have to take your chance when it comes and I felt we won't get a better one than this. Prize for the first person to moan about the first 'International Weekend' of next season, it may well be me
|
|
|
Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 12, 2018 9:33:54 GMT
I think the end result of a semi-final place was extraordinary given the results which were: Won: Costa Rica, Panama, Sweden Drew: Columbia Lost: Belgium, Croatia 12 goals in 6 games looks decent but 6 of them came against Panama. And I think of the 12 goals we only managed 2 from open play in 6 matches. I just hope we haven't used up all our luck for the next 30 years in getting there. As for the story touted around last night and today that this young England team is somehow 4 years ahead of schedule, I don't really buy that, Brazil/Germany/Argentina/Italy et al will be back big and bad next time around, you have to take your chance when it comes and I felt we won't get a better one than this. Prize for the first person to moan about the first 'International Weekend' of next season, it may well be me We beat Costa Rica?
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Jul 12, 2018 9:42:43 GMT
I think the end result of a semi-final place was extraordinary given the results which were: Won: Costa Rica, Panama, Sweden Drew: Columbia Lost: Belgium, Croatia 12 goals in 6 games looks decent but 6 of them came against Panama. And I think of the 12 goals we only managed 2 from open play in 6 matches. I just hope we haven't used up all our luck for the next 30 years in getting there. As for the story touted around last night and today that this young England team is somehow 4 years ahead of schedule, I don't really buy that, Brazil/Germany/Argentina/Italy et al will be back big and bad next time around, you have to take your chance when it comes and I felt we won't get a better one than this. Prize for the first person to moan about the first 'International Weekend' of next season, it may well be me We beat Costa Rica? Whoever it was then! Who was it? It was one of those nations you're told they are quite good to keep the TV viewing figures up but really you know they are not!
|
|
|
Post by jimmygscfc on Jul 12, 2018 9:53:22 GMT
As bad as anything in the last 20 years?!... nah, I'm not having that one bit. I'm mainly thinking about World Cup/Euros, rather than routine qualifiers. I thought we played better against Uruguay and Italy in Brazil, for example. I'm not going to tear into them, because they don't deserve it. But I thought we were close to awful for the last 75 minutes Totally agree with that Grapey.
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Jul 12, 2018 9:53:58 GMT
The draw raised expectations rightly so. I like Southgate but given the draw we could and should have done better. He should have seen the weariness in some of his players and made changes last night. It’s great to have a settled team but playing some of the rest from the start or making decent half time changes may have made a difference
It’s a learning curve and he will come out wider
A massively missed opportunity probably down to his inexperience
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 12, 2018 10:04:39 GMT
Also to be fair, England were knocked out of Euro 2016 by Iceland and were outqualified by Costa Rica at Brazil 2014 and that’s the context, for all the criticisms of last night and some of his handling of games, that we should be viewing things in. For all the ‘it was onlys’, those teams have embarrassed us in recent times. This is at least something to build on. I'm more inclined to put the shocking performances at those two tournaments to the worst national team manager we have ever had. Hodgson was completely hopeless as England boss. A disaster. It's weird how he came back into club football and was able to turn around CP. Southgate has returned us to our more traditional position of beating sides we would expect to beat, but not having the class to beat good sides. Which is an Moro event from Hodgson, but isn't the revolution some would appear to think has happened! Hodgson was always a good mid-level club manager though really, that's just his level. I think Keegan and McClaren were worse England managers than Hodgson but he royally f**ked two of the three tournaments he had to a pretty much unforgivable degree.
|
|
|
Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jul 12, 2018 10:05:19 GMT
As bad as anything in the last 20 years?!... nah, I'm not having that one bit. I'm mainly thinking about World Cup/Euros, rather than routine qualifiers. I thought we played better against Uruguay and Italy in Brazil, for example. I'm not going to tear into them, because they don't deserve it. But I thought we were close to awful for the last 75 minutes As the dust settles it is very frustrating that we were dominant in the first half and then did nothing at all from half time. The subs were all wrong. We should have tweaked things a bit. And then frankly both of their goals were horrible and avoidable. A wank performance from half time onwards, with Kane the golden boot winner not even getting into the box and playing in midfield. As always with england, a tactical fuck up
|
|
|
Post by dirtygary69 on Jul 12, 2018 12:00:38 GMT
It's difficult to really take the game in when you're in that moment. At no point do I remember thinking it was particularly rubbish, despite us getting battered, but once you come out of that hazy bubble, you begin to realise we made a mess of it, sadly.
If we'd have got that second goal in the first half, I think we'd have relaxed and gone on to win comfortably. Unfortunately, the players failed and Southgate's game management was called into question. In previous games, we've got away with it even if the substitutions weren't really the right ones. Last night we paid the price by taking the wrong players off at the wrong times and not adapting to the flow of the game.
Croatia had the belief that they could beat us and I don't think we carried that same belief, even when we were in front. If Southgate can continue his clearly excellent man-management style, make the players believe in themselves and change that mentality we might be able to go one better in the next couple of tournaments. That said, a lot changes in football and who knows where we will be in 2020 and 2022. The most frustrating thing is that these things can't be put right overnight. The process begins again when, truth be told, we should have made the final last night after taking the lead. Croatia looked better than us but we allowed them so much time and space, they just had to capitalise at some stage. Once they equalised when they did, it was always game over.
It's been a great month of football, sun and beers with your mates but, today, I just feel as though that was still a typical England tournament performance. All heart and desire but no real thought of a game plan or tactics once we began to be pressured. It was further than any of us expected but now it's still a case of what if.
Southgate has conducted himself admirably and hopefully this experience is a learning curve for him to realise that he needs to be a bit braver at times in terms of personnel and tactics.
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Jul 12, 2018 12:08:57 GMT
The next thing is having a good tournament in 2020. If we do then all this has been a big step forward. If we don't it's just been yet another blip on our unblemished rhythm of mediocrity.
|
|
|
Post by wakefieldstokie on Jul 12, 2018 12:14:13 GMT
Woahhh boy. 4 years is like 50 in real years. Southgate will have been hounded out/entrapped by the press (or public) way before Qatar. He's unlikey to be manager then.
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Jul 12, 2018 12:18:39 GMT
Woahhh boy. 4 years is like 50 in real years. Southgate will have been hounded out/entrapped by the press (or public) way before Qatar. He's unlikey to be manager then. Next game v Spain. That will lead to the start of the backlash.
|
|
|
Post by charlesjefferson on Jul 12, 2018 12:24:25 GMT
Whoever it was then! Who was it? It was one of those nations you're told they are quite good to keep the TV viewing figures up but really you know they are not! You're getting them confused with Costa Coffee, who we beat via golden goal.
It was Tunisia ya muffin
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Jul 12, 2018 12:27:43 GMT
Whoever it was then! Who was it? It was one of those nations you're told they are quite good to keep the TV viewing figures up but really you know they are not! You're getting them confused with Costa Coffee, who we beat via golden goal.
It was Tunisia ya muffin I think I had the sense of the thing even if I didn't get the nation quite right
|
|
|
Post by Rick Grimes on Jul 12, 2018 13:24:41 GMT
Really can't understand the "well we only beat Tunisia, Panama, Columbia and Sweden" line of thought.
We've just witnessed a World Cup where Germany were beaten by Mexico and South Korea. Spain needed a stoppage time equaliser to draw with Morocco and were beaten by Russia, Iceland drew with Argentina, Belgium were 2 goals down to Japan ...... there just aren't that many easy games in international football nowadays. Sweden beat Italy over 2 legs to qualify for the tournament and finished above the Netherlands in their qualifying group and yet we beat them comfortably.
I like how Southgate has handled the media and how he's encouraged the players to be open and embrace the media as well. He's clearly got the respect of the players and based on what I've witnessed in this World Cup we'll continue to improve under Southgate, many of the players should be playing in future tournaments and will be better for the experience.
|
|
|
Post by fca47 on Jul 12, 2018 16:30:04 GMT
Croatia had footballers, we had athletes, not one playmaker in the PL is English, Sterling was stretching the defence but didn't have the skill or vision to get past a defender or find a colleague. Southgate did OK with what he had, but we need Academies to produce players with skill and vision rather than a bunch of athletes, you have to have both to progress.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 20:08:41 GMT
Forget the Qatar farce, it's all about Euro 2020 for England - with it being all across Europe I think it'll be a fantastic tournament and with the Semi Finals and the Final at Wembley it would be an incredible atmosphere if we were to get to another semi. We have a few years to qualify and put the preparations together, this team should be near their peak in a few years, positive times ahead.
But before that we have a big job on our hands of getting back to the Premier League. Come on Stoke!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 20:14:32 GMT
Croatia had footballers, we had athletes, not one playmaker in the PL is English, Sterling was stretching the defence but didn't have the skill or vision to get past a defender or find a colleague. Southgate did OK with what he had, but we need Academies to produce players with skill and vision rather than a bunch of athletes, you have to have both to progress. Phil Foden might be really to make an impact in a few years, Rashford will hopefully be a far better player by then too and I'm sure a few others will come through as well. Jadon Sancho is another tipped for great things.
|
|
|
Post by superheroantonius on Jul 12, 2018 20:18:49 GMT
I think it's southgate's job to have the players organised , playing has a team , and giving a hundred percent .
And they did that
Eventually we went out to Croatia in a game that could have gone either way
But it wasn't for lack of trying and we were so so close to making it to the final
For all the talk about foreign coaches being so superior to English ones ...blah blah
Sven Goran Ericsson and Fabio cappello were paid a lot of money
But the players and the fans both looked much happier under Bobby Robson and Gareth Southgate
I remember , one of the games on BBC , Rio Ferdinand was asked what it was like to play for Sven and he struggled to find polite language to say ...In effect ... awful , the bloke was an idiot
|
|