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Post by mattythestokie on May 8, 2018 8:45:37 GMT
And the fact that Nzonzi and Arnautovic quite clearly didn’t get worse at Stoke... Wrong. I didn't say they sucked here. Like everyone else, they had some bad days and some good days. But if you take a look at the stats, for instance goals scored - which is always a good indicator, they were not only a lot better when they left Stoke, they'd also been slightly better before the Stoke era of their lives. GOAL RATE Nzonzi: ---------- Blackburn 5.81% Stoke 5.50% Sevilla 6.76% Arnautovic: ----------------- W Bremen 19.4% Stoke 17.6% West Ham 33.3% But there are MUCH worse examples to find. These two have been pretty stable throughout their time, even though both of them got tired and lost it, their lust nearer the end here. Apart from there only being a 1% difference, Nzonzi’s game was not based around goals at all, so to judge him on goals scored is not right. He got his move to a big team like Sevilla because he did well at Stoke. The difference in quality of leagues between Germany and England is another deceiving point. A league Diouf managed to near enough 1 in 2. Arnautovic came to a new league and was a slow starter but has been getting better and better as the seasons went on and I’m sure he would have scored 10+ goals had he stayed this season. West Ham signed a Premier League proven Arnautovic, we didn’t.
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Post by Miles Offside on May 8, 2018 10:03:24 GMT
What is it with him he looks really good with the ball at his feet but he has absolutely no idea what to do with it. So frustrating. I think the basics are there, but he needs a good coach to realise his potential. He also needs to add a yard of pace, like Sheron did when he first came here. Against Palace, he had the ball in good positions 4 or 5 times and did nothing with it. In fact, it was his sloppy pass on the end of the Palace box that led them to break away and score.
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Post by JoeinOz on May 8, 2018 10:08:44 GMT
Sobhi is the perfect example of what has gone wrong. He arrived not as the finished article but as a promising talented youngster. To fulfil his potential he had to work on his game and grow into the various demands of top class football. At the end of his second season he isn't as good as when he arrived. Has nobody helped him to improve? Did we just buy him and forget about it?
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Post by jimmygscfc on May 8, 2018 10:38:19 GMT
I'm not sure the Sobhi project will continue at Stoke and if it does, he shouldn't be in the starting XI.
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Post by Absolution on May 8, 2018 10:44:24 GMT
Sobhi is the perfect example of what has gone wrong. He arrived not as the finished article but as a promising talented youngster. To fulfil his potential he had to work on his game and grow into the various demands of top class football. At the end of his second season he isn't as good as when he arrived. Has nobody helped him to improve? Did we just buy him and forget about it? We signed a lot of very talented youngsters two or three years ago. Are any of them progressing as we or they would have hoped?
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Post by FullerMagic on May 29, 2018 11:12:44 GMT
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on May 29, 2018 11:16:37 GMT
If Ramadan was half the player his agent makes him out to be we'd have Ronaldo on our hands. I hope he does leave, he's ponderous and shite. Wouldn't suit the physicality of the Championship at all. We'd miss his "electric pace" though, admittedly.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 29, 2018 11:16:49 GMT
Amazing given so many think he's shite!
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on May 29, 2018 11:22:33 GMT
I hope the crack processors of the process put a sell on clause!
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 11:33:12 GMT
Sobhi is the perfect example of what has gone wrong. He arrived not as the finished article but as a promising talented youngster. To fulfil his potential he had to work on his game and grow into the various demands of top class football. At the end of his second season he isn't as good as when he arrived. Has nobody helped him to improve? Did we just buy him and forget about it? That's pretty much it in a nutshell Joe. The potential is still there but we clearly didn't know how to get the best out of him. If he goes, he goes with my best wishes personally. Good luck to him and I hope he fulfils his potential. Shame it didn't work out here.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 11:41:51 GMT
He might actually be a regular starter if he stays, and a season at a lower level with plenty of first team football would do him the world of good.
If he wants out we should hold out for a decent fee as he still has a lot of potential.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 11:44:11 GMT
So frustrating. All he needs is a bit of confidence instilled in him and a solid work ethic. Some direction with his end product and ultimately, game time.
He will be a success somewhere else and we should rightfully be embarrassed.
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Post by potterpaul on May 29, 2018 11:46:02 GMT
Sobhi is the perfect example of what has gone wrong. He arrived not as the finished article but as a promising talented youngster. To fulfil his potential he had to work on his game and grow into the various demands of top class football. At the end of his second season he isn't as good as when he arrived. Has nobody helped him to improve? Did we just buy him and forget about it? We signed a lot of very talented youngsters two or three years ago. Are any of them progressing as we or they would have hoped? The first team must have just been poisonous to work with, each and every youngster that made it through the ranks to finally train alongside the so called pros actually went backwards at that point. Or so it seems
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 11:47:36 GMT
With a decent manager this lads talent should blossom
for sure, hes light years better than anything our academys turned up in recent years - that is undeniable
irrefutable
just badly managed and coached with his confidence shot to hell
I feel sorry for this player
BADLY - BADLY - ATROCIOUSLY TREATED BY OUR UTTERLY INCOMPETENT FOOTBALL CLUB
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Post by werrington on May 29, 2018 11:53:39 GMT
I’m sure there’s a good player in there but two years later I’m struggling to see all the hype around him, can’t find a man, can’t strike a ball and horrendous decision making which are basics and not the coaching ... if he stays hopefully he’ll come good in the championship
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 11:55:40 GMT
THATS THE SPIRIT -Im not into charity for players but this lads got talent - thats obvious - just needs coaching by someone who actually knows what they are doing - instead of our hopeless set of incompetents
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Post by werrington on May 29, 2018 11:58:22 GMT
THATS THE SPIRIT -Im not into charity for players but this lads got talent - thats obvious - just needs coaching by someone who actually knows what they are doing - instead of our hopeless set of incompetents Kids need coaching tone Not international footballers who cost £6m
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Post by Olgrligm on May 29, 2018 11:59:12 GMT
If Rowett COACHES him and builds his confidence then Sobhi will tear the Championship to shreds.
I would go so far as to say that his treatment at Stoke so far has been negligent.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 12:01:01 GMT
You can improve ANY player
BY quite some measure
ask Pep GuadioLa
the case in point the lads decision making and confidence is shot to hell - that much is obvious and - needs fixing
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Post by JoeinOz on May 29, 2018 12:02:06 GMT
THATS THE SPIRIT -Im not into charity for players but this lads got talent - thats obvious - just needs coaching by someone who actually knows what they are doing - instead of our hopeless set of incompetents Kids need coaching tone Not international footballers who cost £6m Disagree. A player can always improve and an environment which encourages players to do so is integral to a successful team.
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Post by robwahlmann on May 29, 2018 12:02:28 GMT
£10M and he can go anywhere if it is up to me. Think we can get someone with more pace and better at taking decisions for less.
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Post by werrington on May 29, 2018 12:03:20 GMT
If Rowett COACHES him and builds his confidence then Sobhi will tear the Championship to shreds. I would go so far as to say that his treatment at Stoke so far has been negligent. Let’s hope so as I’m sure there’s a good player in there and I for one have urged the manager to play him He just disappoints....fingers crossed
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 29, 2018 12:03:43 GMT
Sobhi is the perfect example of what has gone wrong. He arrived not as the finished article but as a promising talented youngster. To fulfil his potential he had to work on his game and grow into the various demands of top class football. At the end of his second season he isn't as good as when he arrived. Has nobody helped him to improve? Did we just buy him and forget about it? I was told from the off that Hughes didn't rate him (some will say he showed good judgement). But that always bothered me and I shared that on here (plenty of stick was given) but it was what I was told and it tallied with how Hughes was treating. Now I believe (this is a hunch) that he's the second player that the manager didn't sign, the first being Butland since Cartwright arrived. I really don't think he's had the necessary coaching to improve his attacking game and he's got worse since he got here as you say. His first few games he played he was so positive and direct and would take on a man. Traits I don't believe Hughes liked in a winger (just from watching ours Hughes play). He didn't play for a few months despite being fit and I think this is where it was coached into him to defend and to be not as direct. I don't think he's helped himself sometimes but I do think he was just following orders and it's made him worse.
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Post by werrington on May 29, 2018 12:05:38 GMT
Kids need coaching tone Not international footballers who cost £6m Disagree. A player can always improve and an environment which encourages players to do so is integral to a successful team. A coach doesn’t need to tell him how to strike a ball joe ....that’s basics and that’s my point in regards coaching I for one hope he comes good but he’s way off it at the minute
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Post by Cast no shadow on May 29, 2018 12:08:15 GMT
Towards the back end of his 1st season here, he looked promising. He’s regressed so much since then. Can’t strike a ball for toffee.
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Post by FullerMagic on May 29, 2018 12:09:00 GMT
Sobhi is the perfect example of what has gone wrong. He arrived not as the finished article but as a promising talented youngster. To fulfil his potential he had to work on his game and grow into the various demands of top class football. At the end of his second season he isn't as good as when he arrived. Has nobody helped him to improve? Did we just buy him and forget about it? I was told from the off that Hughes didn't rate him (some will say he showed good judgement). But that always bothered me and I shared that on here (plenty of stick was given) but it was what I was told and it tallied with how Hughes was treating. Now I believe (this is a hunch) that he's the second player that the manager didn't sign, the first being Butland since Cartwright arrived. I really don't think he's had the necessary coaching to improve his attacking game and he's got worse since he got here as you say. His first few games he played he was so positive and direct and would take on a man. Traits I don't believe Hughes liked in a winger (just from watching ours Hughes play). He didn't play for a few months despite being fit and I think this is where it was coached into him to defend and to be not as direct. I don't think he's helped himself sometimes but I do think he was just following orders and it's made him worse. It was hinted at in Spinksy's infamous Carto piece that he was one of his. www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-recruitment-cartwright-hughes-1569418Supporters of Cartwright will also say that the number of transfers he personally would hang his hat on in terms of claiming responsibility can be counted on the fingers of one hand during his five-and-a-half years at Stoke City. They include Ramadan, the kind of young chancer all managers agree to with no strings attached...
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Post by stokesupporter on May 29, 2018 12:09:50 GMT
We should keep him just because it won't be easy to sign such a large amount of players we now need in a short time. Let him go next year if he wants to.
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Post by Absolution on May 29, 2018 12:14:59 GMT
Sobhi is the perfect example of what has gone wrong. He arrived not as the finished article but as a promising talented youngster. To fulfil his potential he had to work on his game and grow into the various demands of top class football. At the end of his second season he isn't as good as when he arrived. Has nobody helped him to improve? Did we just buy him and forget about it? I was told from the off that Hughes didn't rate him (some will say he showed good judgement). But that always bothered me and I shared that on here (plenty of stick was given) but it was what I was told and it tallied with how Hughes was treating. Now I believe (this is a hunch) that he's the second player that the manager didn't sign, the first being Butland since Cartwright arrived. I really don't think he's had the necessary coaching to improve his attacking game and he's got worse since he got here as you say. His first few games he played he was so positive and direct and would take on a man. Traits I don't believe Hughes liked in a winger (just from watching ours Hughes play). He didn't play for a few months despite being fit and I think this is where it was coached into him to defend and to be not as direct. I don't think he's helped himself sometimes but I do think he was just following orders and it's made him worse. Agree with all that, except I'd say that Brek Shea would be included in the 'players not signed by the manager' list.
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Post by JoeinOz on May 29, 2018 12:15:04 GMT
Disagree. A player can always improve and an environment which encourages players to do so is integral to a successful team. A coach doesn’t need to tell him how to strike a ball joe ....that’s basics and that’s my point in regards coaching I for one hope he comes good but he’s way off it at the minute For a player to improve he has to do it for himself. BUT the environment he's in will always be a contributory factor. There's the legendary story of Eric Cantona staying behind after his first training session at the shit to practice and their young uns of the day being awestruck and copying. Them young uns saw at first hand the benefit of practice and developed a level of application and perseverance through it. It's abundantly clear that Sobhi didn't come as the finished article but he hasn't been inspired to strive by his surroundings.
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Post by george2again on May 29, 2018 12:20:51 GMT
Absolutely no pace at all, decision making shocking, I just cant believe anyone in the Prem would want him. We need pace !
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