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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Apr 25, 2018 14:08:06 GMT
94,868 as of 11:08 April 25th Almost there - over 98k now. There must have been a lot of signing this morning But we shouldn't stop at 100k
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Post by emmbrook1956 on Apr 25, 2018 14:11:42 GMT
Now 98354 signatures !
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Post by Gods on Apr 25, 2018 14:20:20 GMT
I just signed, it's at about 98,500 so nearly there.
I just have the sense the Minister for Sport's initial rejection on the irrelevant grounds that there may not be much demand for it has really come from the sense that she has absolutely nothing to gain by allowing it to go ahead and plenty to lose should something later go wrong.
I wonder how you convince the government there may be kudos or or votes in it.
You'd have the same problem trying to legalise any 'pleasure' in which 99% of the population will never take part. After all no one likes to see other people enjoying themselves too much.
Saying 'no' is the easy, risk free option.
Anyway good luck, I'd stand in a heart beat, it's freedom from the shackles of a nasty plastic seat.
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Post by LiverpoolStokie on Apr 25, 2018 14:58:07 GMT
Signed
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Post by thegift on Apr 25, 2018 15:01:57 GMT
94,868 as of 11:08 April 25th Almost there - over 98k now. There must have been a lot of signing this morning But we shouldn't stop at 100k Curious - if we had 100,000 signed or 120,000 would that give us more power for the argument? Or not?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2018 15:11:19 GMT
Almost there - over 98k now. There must have been a lot of signing this morning But we shouldn't stop at 100k Curious - if we had 100,000 signed or 120,000 would that give us more power for the argument? Or not? I'm pretty sure the 100,000 mark is merely the requirement to have the corrupt parliament cunts talk about it. 20,000 more can't hurt though. I don't imagine many will bother to turn up to the debate anyway. As mentioned, weird that they approved Shrewsbury's application but not West Brom's.
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Post by nott1 on Apr 25, 2018 15:14:25 GMT
Curious - if we had 100,000 signed or 120,000 would that give us more power for the argument? Or not? I'm pretty sure the 100,000 mark is merely the requirement to have the corrupt parliament cunts talk about it. 20,000 more can't hurt though. I don't imagine many will bother to turn up to the debate anyway. As mentioned, weird that they approved Shrewsbury's application but not West Brom's. And if they read this they'll definitely turn it down (I hope).
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Post by thegift on Apr 25, 2018 15:19:15 GMT
not signed I might log back on later to tell you ive still not signed - you'll have to wait and see PS still not signed -stop watching me Strange boy
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Apr 25, 2018 15:33:35 GMT
It's moving fast today - only 670 short now. At this rate should hit 100k within the next few hours.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 25, 2018 15:41:32 GMT
Clubs in the Championship have (I think) 2 years to upgrade their grounds to all seater after promotion. It will be interesting what the authorities decide will happen to Sherwsbury if/when they get promoted. They are the only club in England whth approval for Safe Standing/Rail seating (in one small section of the ground)in the lower divisions. Will they be told they have 2 seasons to take it out - or would the seats have to be used in the down (i.e. seated) position? It's actually 3 years, John. Only 50% out. That is quite good for me!
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 25, 2018 15:51:30 GMT
Curious - if we had 100,000 signed or 120,000 would that give us more power for the argument? Or not? I'm pretty sure the 100,000 mark is merely the requirement to have the corrupt parliament cunts talk about it. 20,000 more can't hurt though. I don't imagine many will bother to turn up to the debate anyway. As mentioned, weird that they approved Shrewsbury's application but not West Brom's. Hopefully the FSF will do what lobby groups like 38 Degrees do, and, once the debate has been timetabled get as many fans as possible to email their own MPs and ask them to speak and vote in favour in the debate. If enough fans do this then it could quite possibly persuade some MPs to vote in favour rather than abstain - especially those MPs in marginal seats. I have no doubt that there will be some lobbying going on against the concept of safe standing so the bigger the lobby in favaour the more likely it is to succeed. The more fans speak out in favour of safe standing then the more daft the Sports Minister's claim that it is only wanted by a vocal majority will look. I wonder if it would be possible for the FSF to get Premier League and Championship clubs to allow petitions to be available to sign at games at the start of next season. It is amazing what a good petition result can achieve.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Apr 25, 2018 16:07:11 GMT
100k now passed. They are flying in today. Villa just came out in support.
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Post by nott1 on Apr 25, 2018 16:42:22 GMT
Not signing, won't happen. Strange attitude Why, because you have the opposite view? I don't see anything good about standing for a couple of hours when I could sit comfortably and watch a game. Standing makes no sense whatsoever to me.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Apr 25, 2018 16:45:08 GMT
Why, because you have the opposite view? I don't see anything good about standing for a couple of hours when I could sit comfortably and watch a game. Standing makes no sense whatsoever to me. No one is saying you can't sit down. Anyway, shouldn't you be at Southampton cheering on your hero?
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Post by robstokie on Apr 25, 2018 16:53:10 GMT
Signed - its over 100,000 signatures now but the more signatures, the bigger the statement of intent.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 25, 2018 17:14:00 GMT
Why, because you have the opposite view? I don't see anything good about standing for a couple of hours when I could sit comfortably and watch a game. Standing makes no sense whatsoever to me. That isn't a reason to object to it though is it? You'd be the first to complain if those people who want to stand at matches wanted to stop people like yourself being allowed to sit down! The campaign for safe standing is about choice, pure and simple.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Apr 25, 2018 17:26:31 GMT
Why, because you have the opposite view? I don't see anything good about standing for a couple of hours when I could sit comfortably and watch a game. Standing makes no sense whatsoever to me. Fucking weird. "If offered the choice to sit or stand I would sit, therefore the choice shouldn't exist"
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Post by stokiejoeofalsager on Apr 25, 2018 17:35:15 GMT
There’s no reason for somebody not to sign it. There isn’t a single negative of it.
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Post by essexstokey on Apr 25, 2018 17:43:49 GMT
102,029 lets keep the good work up ! the more votes the more your members in parliament will listen !! In the time it took me to type the post 50 more signed !!
now 102,435
Right lets really get behind this if you are on twitter put the link on there , if you know anyone connected with the club players etc get them to tweet it lets get well over 200000. Malcom has done a good job for the supporters and also raising the profile of our club, lets get behind this get as many people as you know to sign it doesn't even matter if there football fans just get them to sign
now 102,495
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2018 18:39:57 GMT
Not signing, won't happen. I think you will be proved wrong. Of course standing in seated areas is already happening on a large scale Correct me if I’m wrong Malcolm, but the belief that Dortmund’s yellow wall is all rail seating (as mentioned in articles on the matter on many large, mainstream media outlets) is actually incorrect as the largest part of that stand is actually what would be considered traditional terracing. This is also the case in many grounds in Germany. It’s my personal opinion that the push for rail seating is somewhat of a compromise (cop out) and that, with modern technology and the completely changed nature of football fandom over the last 30 years, plus the findings of the recent Hillsborough inquests, what we should actually be campaigning for is a return to “traditional” terracing. It’s very possible that part of the reason the government are digging their Tory heels in is because they are aware that budging on this issue is a gateway to allowing terracing in all forms. Nonetheless, that is what the eventual aim should be in my opinion.
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Post by chipsaway on Apr 25, 2018 18:49:04 GMT
Signed. I'd love standing to come back. It would improve the atmosphere no end.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Apr 25, 2018 18:59:46 GMT
I think you will be proved wrong. Of course standing in seated areas is already happening on a large scale Correct me if I’m wrong Malcolm, but the belief that Dortmund’s yellow wall is all rail seating (as mentioned in articles on the matter on many large, mainstream media outlets) is actually incorrect as the largest part of that stand is actually what would be considered traditional terracing. This is also the case in many grounds in Germany. It’s my personal opinion that the push for rail seating is somewhat of a compromise (cop out) and that, with modern technology and the completely changed nature of football fandom over the last 30 years, plus the findings of the recent Hillsborough inquests, what we should actually be campaigning for is a return to “traditional” terracing. It’s very possible that part of the reason the government are digging their Tory heels in is because they are aware that budging on this issue is a gateway to allowing terracing in all forms. Nonetheless, that is what the eventual aim should be in my opinion. The back part of the yellow wall is rail seating, but the front part is, as you say, "traditional" terracing, (which is converted to seating for European games). My impression from when I visited is that it's about half and half but I may be incorrect on that. Of course, "traditional" terraces still exist at all levels below the Championship ( and indeed can exist in the Championship for up to 3 years, as Lakeland pointed out) and meet the appropriate Green Guide safety and other standards. The safety levels for fans should not be related to the quality of the football on the pitch. What we should (and are) calling for, is for clubs to be given a choice as to how they meet the demand from supporters, but of course always within Green Guide safety standards. In practice, I can't see a top level all-seater stadium returning to "traditional" terracing, at least not for any club which thinks it might one day play in Europe so long as EUFA regs require all-seater, but that's not the point for the law of the land. You are quite right, there is no logic to legally outlawing "traditional" terracing in the top 2 divisions, but allowing it below that level.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 25, 2018 19:42:40 GMT
Correct me if I’m wrong Malcolm, but the belief that Dortmund’s yellow wall is all rail seating (as mentioned in articles on the matter on many large, mainstream media outlets) is actually incorrect as the largest part of that stand is actually what would be considered traditional terracing. This is also the case in many grounds in Germany. It’s my personal opinion that the push for rail seating is somewhat of a compromise (cop out) and that, with modern technology and the completely changed nature of football fandom over the last 30 years, plus the findings of the recent Hillsborough inquests, what we should actually be campaigning for is a return to “traditional” terracing. It’s very possible that part of the reason the government are digging their Tory heels in is because they are aware that budging on this issue is a gateway to allowing terracing in all forms. Nonetheless, that is what the eventual aim should be in my opinion. The back part of the yellow wall is rail seating, but the front part is, as you say, "traditional" terracing, (which is converted to seating for European games). My impression from when I visited is that it's about half and half but I may be incorrect on that. Of course, "traditional" terraces still exist at all levels below the Championship ( and indeed can exist in the Championship for up to 3 years, as Lakeland pointed out) and meet the appropriate Green Guide safety and other standards. The safety levels for fans should not be related to the quality of the football on the pitch. What we should (and are) calling for, is for clubs to be given a choice as to how they meet the demand from supporters, but of course always within Green Guide safety standards. In practice, I can't see a top level all-seater stadium returning to "traditional" terracing, at least not for any club which thinks it might one day play in Europe so long as EUFA regs require all-seater, but that's not the point for the law of the land. You are quite right, there is no logic to legally outlawing "traditional" terracing in the top 2 divisions, but allowing it below that level. Malcolm, how do Dortmund convert their traditional terracing to seating for European games? It must be a right pain to have to convert it and reconvert it for each European game! It seems to me that any club in the top two leagues in England who wanted to build new terraces (if the law allowed it) would go for continuous rails - even if seats were not required for European games. With or without the fold away seats, continuous rails seem to be intrinsically far safer than the traditional terraces as you can't have the "surges" those of us of a certain age remember from our youth spent on traditional terraces!
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Apr 25, 2018 19:52:59 GMT
The back part of the yellow wall is rail seating, but the front part is, as you say, "traditional" terracing, (which is converted to seating for European games). My impression from when I visited is that it's about half and half but I may be incorrect on that. Of course, "traditional" terraces still exist at all levels below the Championship ( and indeed can exist in the Championship for up to 3 years, as Lakeland pointed out) and meet the appropriate Green Guide safety and other standards. The safety levels for fans should not be related to the quality of the football on the pitch. What we should (and are) calling for, is for clubs to be given a choice as to how they meet the demand from supporters, but of course always within Green Guide safety standards. In practice, I can't see a top level all-seater stadium returning to "traditional" terracing, at least not for any club which thinks it might one day play in Europe so long as EUFA regs require all-seater, but that's not the point for the law of the land. You are quite right, there is no logic to legally outlawing "traditional" terracing in the top 2 divisions, but allowing it below that level. Malcolm, how do Dortmund convert their traditional terracing to seating for European games? It must be a right pain to have to convert it and reconvert it for each European game! It seems to me that any club in the top two leagues in England who wanted to build new terraces (if the law allowed it) would go for continuous rails - even if seats were not required for European games. With or without the fold away seats, continuous rails seem to be intrinsically far safer than the traditional terraces as you can't have the "surges" those of us of a certain age remember from our youth spent on traditional terraces! As they told us when we visited John, it is indeed a right pain - very labour intensive and therefore expensive. They have to slot the seats into holes in the terrace.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 25, 2018 19:56:50 GMT
Malcolm, how do Dortmund convert their traditional terracing to seating for European games? It must be a right pain to have to convert it and reconvert it for each European game! It seems to me that any club in the top two leagues in England who wanted to build new terraces (if the law allowed it) would go for continuous rails - even if seats were not required for European games. With or without the fold away seats, continuous rails seem to be intrinsically far safer than the traditional terraces as you can't have the "surges" those of us of a certain age remember from our youth spent on traditional terraces! As they told us when we visited John, it is indeed a right pain - very labour intensive and therefore expensive. They have to slot the seats into holes in the terrace. It would be easier to convert the traditional terraces to rail seating. I'm surpised they haven't done so - they can surely afford to.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Apr 25, 2018 21:05:51 GMT
As they told us when we visited John, it is indeed a right pain - very labour intensive and therefore expensive. They have to slot the seats into holes in the terrace. It would be easier to convert the traditional terraces to rail seating. I'm surpised they haven't done so - they can surely afford to. It may be that there would be supporter resistance to that, John. German clubs have this rather weird habit of actually listening to their fans
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Apr 25, 2018 21:11:34 GMT
102,029 lets keep the good work up ! the more votes the more your members in parliament will listen !! In the time it took me to type the post 50 more signed !! now 102,435 Right lets really get behind this if you are on twitter put the link on there , if you know anyone connected with the club players etc get them to tweet it lets get well over 200000. Malcom has done a good job for the supporters and also raising the profile of our club, lets get behind this get as many people as you know to sign it doesn't even matter if there football fans just get them to sign now 102,495 It would be great if we could get a player to tweet support. If any are reading this, your support would be really appreciated. I think 200k should be achievable. It has raced away today. Good coverage by BBC and Sky when 100k was passed.
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Post by essexstokey on Apr 25, 2018 21:18:04 GMT
104,604 now
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Post by essexstokey on Apr 25, 2018 21:23:12 GMT
linkwell done Malcom on getting our favourite manager to back this campaign Pity no one at stoke yet come on crouch you know a tweet makes sense
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 25, 2018 21:40:49 GMT
Here is the BBC article referred to above by Essex Stokie link
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