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Post by Rick Grimes on Apr 12, 2018 11:39:15 GMT
It bothers me that as supporters we don't know the real extent to which Cartwright is actually involved in transfers but he should be shown the door anyway. All clubs are capable of making poor signings but over the last few years we seem to have been on a completely different level to the rest of the Premier League for terrible signings.
With regards to Scholes it's ridiculous that we chased both Diouf and Berahino for several seasons before actually managing to sign them. I can appreciate that every club can sometimes have difficulty getting deals over the line but again we seem to be specialists in long drawn out transfer sagas because other clubs don't seem to have the same difficulty that we do. The Bruno transfer this summer was a prime example, we clearly wanted him, he clearly wanted to come but instead we spend most of the summer in negotiations leading to an unfit Bruno joining us.
The fact that Cartwright hasn't already gone suggests that the board don't think he's a problem which is a big concern because we should really have bought someone else in already and they should be preparing what we're going to do in preparation for the Championship. It's vital that we make signings early doors, get the squad training together for as long as possible and hit the ground running.
If we still have Cartwright and Scholes at the helm I fear that we'll continue to make dodgy signings that take forever to get over the line, it's just not acceptable.
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Post by smallthorner on Apr 12, 2018 11:46:32 GMT
Can't imagine either will be going. That's right.
Unless we have a change of ownership ( highly unlikely)...
Can't see anything changing in the Executive, Administration and Management structures next season.
If Peter retires and Junior steps up as Chairman, it will give us a clearer picture of who is/has been calling the shots over the last couple of years.
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Post by bringmesunshine on Apr 12, 2018 12:31:58 GMT
Can't imagine either will be going. That's right.
Unless we have a change of ownership ( highly unlikely)...
Can't see anything changing in the Executive, Administration and Management structures next season.
If Peter retires and Junior steps up as Chairman, it will give us a clearer picture of who is/has been calling the shots over the last couple of years.
And not sacking Scholes and cartwright immediately will give you an idea of his courage or desire to make the difficult decisions.
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Post by fradleyhomes on Apr 12, 2018 13:07:45 GMT
Let's not forget the first Cartwright signings were Brek Shea and Jack Butland. Both of whom were represented by Beswicks!! It's stinks. Shea was an appalling signing and I would argue we didn't need Butland at the time with Begovic and Sorensen doing a very good job. How he is still in a job amazes me.
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Post by mrred on Apr 12, 2018 13:19:19 GMT
It does make me wonder why when there's a lot of moaning about Scholes and Cartwright, yet there's never any banners or demonstrations against them, not even a song ffs. If people feel that strongly about them, that they've had a large part in seeing us go down (I don't disagree with it either)- sort something out.
I don't think the way they went about it was very clever, but you have to admire West Ham fans for taking matters into their own hands in this era of acceptance.
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Post by metalhead on Apr 12, 2018 13:20:01 GMT
Can't imagine either will be going. That's right.
Unless we have a change of ownership ( highly unlikely)...
Can't see anything changing in the Executive, Administration and Management structures next season.
If Peter retires and Junior steps up as Chairman, it will give us a clearer picture of who is/has been calling the shots over the last couple of years.
Does junior care? I'm not sure any of them care. That stand is looking like a horrible investment though.
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Post by metalhead on Apr 12, 2018 13:21:06 GMT
It does make me wonder why when there's a lot of moaning about Scholes and Cartwright, yet there's never any banners or demonstrations against them, not even a song ffs. If people feel that strongly about them, that they've had a large part in seeing us go down (I don't disagree with it either)- sort something out. I don't think the way they went about it was very clever, but you have to admire West Ham fans for taking matters into their own hands in this era of acceptance. I've said a few times, the day we go down, I hope people burn effigies outside the Britannia. It won't happen though.
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Post by mrred on Apr 12, 2018 13:30:04 GMT
It does make me wonder why when there's a lot of moaning about Scholes and Cartwright, yet there's never any banners or demonstrations against them, not even a song ffs. If people feel that strongly about them, that they've had a large part in seeing us go down (I don't disagree with it either)- sort something out. I don't think the way they went about it was very clever, but you have to admire West Ham fans for taking matters into their own hands in this era of acceptance. I've said a few times, the day we go down, I hope people burn effigies outside the Britannia. It won't happen though. Prett much, yeah. Just grumble about it under their breath and shuffle off home. Shame as I really do believe these cockroaches have a big part in our relegation.
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Post by jezzascfc on Apr 12, 2018 14:01:21 GMT
Both long since overstayed their welcome at our club. Teflon Tony will stay, no matter what, it seems. Cartwright's position may be less secure, as surely he must carry some of the blame for the host of shockers we have signed these past 2 years. Hammond has just got the boot for that reason at WBA and no one could blame a summer review at Stoke coming to the same conclusion with regard to the ex-Leek Town reserve keeper.
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Post by metalhead on Apr 12, 2018 14:48:44 GMT
Both long since overstayed their welcome at our club. Teflon Tony will stay, no matter what, it seems. Cartwright's position may be less secure, as surely he must carry some of the blame for the host of shockers we have signed these past 2 years. Hammond has just got the boot for that reason at WBA and no one could blame a summer review at Stoke coming to the same conclusion with regard to the ex-Leek Town reserve keeper. Tony Scholes has the best job on the planet. If most of us did our job as bad as he did his, then we'd be sacked. However, he's made Saint Peter shed loads of cash..... those yachts don't buy themselves..... so maybe he's done a great job?
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Post by jezzascfc on Apr 12, 2018 14:59:24 GMT
Both long since overstayed their welcome at our club. Teflon Tony will stay, no matter what, it seems. Cartwright's position may be less secure, as surely he must carry some of the blame for the host of shockers we have signed these past 2 years. Hammond has just got the boot for that reason at WBA and no one could blame a summer review at Stoke coming to the same conclusion with regard to the ex-Leek Town reserve keeper. Tony Scholes has the best job on the planet. If most of us did our job as bad as he did his, then we'd be sacked. However, he's made Saint Peter shed loads of cash..... those yachts don't buy themselves..... so maybe he's done a great job? Exactly - what we constitute as Scholes doing a great job is rather different to what the Coates family may do! Their views may change somewhat when they see the massive reduction in income that relegation brings.
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Post by senojbor on Apr 12, 2018 15:01:46 GMT
I find it absolutely incredible that they are still in a their roles. One thing we know about the Chairman is that he has no bottle whatsoever.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Apr 12, 2018 15:06:38 GMT
Cartwright will go on the summer I'm sure. Scholes won't be going anywhere mind.
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Post by wozzerthepotter on Apr 12, 2018 15:09:12 GMT
I find it absolutely incredible that they are still in a their roles. One thing we know about the Chairman is that he has no bottle whatsoever. Not sure I agree with that Coates is old school and gives people time to succeed unlike the modern trend giving people time to fail. He acted when he had seen enough of TP and the rumour is that there are going to significant changes in the summer at least that's what was said on the radio on Saturday.
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Post by thegift on Apr 12, 2018 15:15:02 GMT
Cartwright will go on the summer I'm sure. Scholes won't be going anywhere mind. What makes you think this?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 12, 2018 15:15:06 GMT
I find it absolutely incredible that they are still in a their roles. One thing we know about the Chairman is that he has no bottle whatsoever. Not sure I agree with that Coates is old school and gives people time to succeed unlike the modern trend giving people time to fail. He acted when he had seen enough of TP and the rumour is that there are going to significant changes in the summer at least that's what was said on the radio on Saturday. Who said it?
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Post by GeneralFaye on Apr 12, 2018 15:18:55 GMT
Carto needs sacking. Tony can stay, on a lesser wage.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Apr 12, 2018 15:20:25 GMT
Cartwright will go on the summer I'm sure. Scholes won't be going anywhere mind. What makes you think this? If we go down the board won't ignore the reasons why, the 50m wasted on Imbula, Berahino and Wimmer won't be brushed under the carpet like some think it will. Stoke can't afford to waste money like that and I'm sure he'll be straight out of the door as soon as the season ends.
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Post by theplantpotter on Apr 12, 2018 15:21:05 GMT
Haven't they gone yet?
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Post by thegift on Apr 12, 2018 15:21:45 GMT
What makes you think this? If we go down the board won't ignore the reasons why, the 50m wasted on Imbula, Berahino and Wimmer won't be brushed under the carpet like some think it will. Stoke can't afford to waste money like that and I'm sure he'll be straight out of the door as soon as the season ends. I wish i believed you
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Post by Gary Hackett on Apr 12, 2018 15:25:45 GMT
If we go down the board won't ignore the reasons why, the 50m wasted on Imbula, Berahino and Wimmer won't be brushed under the carpet like some think it will. Stoke can't afford to waste money like that and I'm sure he'll be straight out of the door as soon as the season ends. I wish i believed you Have faith man :-)
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 12, 2018 16:06:28 GMT
West brom busy getting all their ducks in a row. We'll probably start getting ours in a row after Scholes has his holiday at the end of July Not sure why he's wearing a disguise though
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 16:28:13 GMT
West brom busy getting all their ducks in a row. We'll probably start getting ours in a row after Scholes has his holiday at the end of July Not sure why he's wearing a disguise though Great pedigree. Relax though, we have it covered with Marky Mark and his fancy database.
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Post by fca47 on Apr 12, 2018 16:46:25 GMT
Whoever was ultimately responsible for our recruitment should definitely go. Maybe he's already gone
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Post by jezzascfc on Apr 12, 2018 17:37:14 GMT
West brom busy getting all their ducks in a row. We'll probably start getting ours in a row after Scholes has his holiday at the end of July Not sure why he's wearing a disguise though Great pedigree. Relax though, we have it covered with Marky Mark and his fancy database. Surely that should be Marky Mark and his funky databunch? *showing my age again*
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Post by march4 on Apr 12, 2018 17:51:47 GMT
They should have been sacked the same day as Hughes.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Apr 12, 2018 18:14:55 GMT
Not sure why he's wearing a disguise though I think it may be David Suchet!
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Post by swampmongrel on Apr 12, 2018 18:39:50 GMT
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Post by vahl on Apr 12, 2018 18:46:28 GMT
I thought it was Des Lynam at first glance.
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Post by songthrush01 on Apr 12, 2018 19:37:43 GMT
Relegation to the championship could cost the club £100m, the local area even more. On top of that hundreds of jobs both directly connected to the club and in the area. Even worse our local pride will take a massive knock when things just seemed to be turning a corner. These two men, one head of recruitment and the other the man who appointed him have presided over this mess. Whilst being overseen and trusted by a board seemingly sleep at the wheel. I fully appreciate and accept that Tony Scholes is no chief scout, he has no footballing experience to speak of in the game. However after many statements from the club that "only the manager signs players", we have seen with the signings of Bauer and Ndiaye that this is not strictly true. In terms of quality of player bought in he is not to blame. He is however responsible for the man he hired to do that side of the work. They have both failed on numerous occasions. Tony Scholes however is in charge of how budgets are used, and as head of “running” of the club, he oversees all aspects including setting the standards of what the club is and means to those affected by it. Yet again tonight we have Jesé in the papers with reports he’s out on the piss in Spain, not really spending time with his child and the Stoke City mole John Percy has another exclusive again about lack of standards and care from stoke city footballers with no official line from the club. What is our press department doing? Why does nobody at the top of our club appear to have a grip of this situation? Why have we had bad press after bad press when we are in a relegation battle for week after week? Why is Tony Scholes and the board not setting the standards for what is expected of players and Staff? Regardless of who is manager? Why is it not intrinsically drummed in to players what it means to play for this club? What it means to the area and why is that respect for the club instilled into them from day one? Why does it appear it has taken a new manager to come in to install discipline into this squad and give the club direction? It is clear we need more successful "footballing people" at the top of the club to sort this mess out and people with proven track records of success. Especially recruitment. The whole situation reeks of a rudderless ship that has already hit the iceberg and I'm afraid the club management were willingly asleep at the wheel. Since Cartwright has come in I dare say his hit rate has been less that 50% on signings. Scholes and he have presided over:: - Berahino fiasco - A player with a known chequered past and now clearly spending far over the odds - Imbula - A player with the wrong 'attitude' from the start, little grasp of English. Another player who was clearly the wrong fit for the club - Agudelo - What happened there?! - Wimmer - A player with an astronomical fee but no quality to show for it. Another time Spurs have had our pants down. - Palacios - A make way for the crouch deal with little pay off - Jese - Ambition...say no more - Moting - A free transfer replacing your best player who kept us in the league must be great for a CEO when it comes off, but when it does you pay the price - The late signing of Bruno - Seemingly a self sabotage mission to mess up the start of the season and what was turning into the most stable centre back partnership we'd had in years for what? - Letting Bardsley go for Johnson - Extended contracts for Ireland Affellay? Why? - John Guidetti, Texiera, Sidwell, Van Ginkel, Jamie Ness, Edu, Shea, Bony - All failures - The failure to sign a striker of good enough quality since 2012 Its nothing short of a complete shambles and shows how without a strong manager we are a vacant of any identity as a club as it is not being set by the board at all. We have heard about 'self sustainability' and wanting to produce more academy players and yet we have had a revolving door of academy directors and seemingly no pragmatic approach to put things right apart from keeping talking about it and hoping it becomes true. Im sure Peter Coates would love for stoke to follow a Southampton model and sell one or two academy or recruited players for £30m+ every year but we have no track record of being able to do it, and no idea how to start to make that happen. The academy and scouting team is not up to it and simply wishing it would happen gets us in the situation we have now. Simply buying good foreign players for the U23 squad or an off the shelf Coever training scheme won't cut it. Not only that but hoping to do that would mean the club have an ongoing identity of both the club they are, the type of players they want to recruit and the type of football we want to play. And I have seen nothing to suggest we have a clue?! We have no identity, no 'stoke way'. For example, even in the championship the Brighton academy philosophy was "Brighton want to play and attractive brand of possession football with a winning mentality throughout their teams. We therefore recognise the need for all players to become skilled and confident technicians who enjoy and are comfortable on possession. Whilst developing a real game understanding" What do we stand for? Apart from a trying to get in a bunch of failed mercenaries that nobody else wants? Name the number of times stoke bought a successful recognised premier league player who was wanted by other clubs? Allen? Crouch? Yes the community aspects of the club have expanded but anyone who has any day to day interaction with the club know that is not a well run ship. From match day experience, the car parks, ticket office, the PA system, communication from the club, marketing. The club have done lots of great things in recent history such as the ticket price freezes, away fan travel, supporters council etc but I don't think this is enough to cover the ongoing clusterfuck that is Stoke City FC at the moment. The former management team staff still being at the club, failed signings, bad press. These problems are not from recent times and will take a lot of tough honesty and pragmatism from the club to put right. Change must happen. As fans I think we need to put pressure on them to make sure they do. totally agree they have knackerd this club,as well as the goofy family.
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