|
Post by thegift on Mar 4, 2018 14:49:23 GMT
Theres no doubt Hughes wrecked the club & left us in a bad way but he did it all with the blessing of the Coates family who are supposed to be very astute business people. So Hughes was a very good con man & they believed everything he told them or the Coates family are not very clever after all & have been incredibly lucky with there gambling empire. If they spent as much on the football club as they do on advertising Bet365 then we wouldn't have been scratting around for fuckin loan strikers in January. Fuckin pathetic management. It does seem like they don't care anymore.
|
|
|
Post by biddulphchav on Mar 4, 2018 14:51:22 GMT
I get what you are trying to say, but:
Hughes inherited a team that was very solid and had a fantastic team ethos that was instilled by Pulis in his tenure with the club. To give Hughes his due, he definitely did improve the teams style of play in his first season, but I agree over the next two, Arnautovic definitely got us out of jail on more than one occasion. For me, where Hughes went wrong was that he failed to realise just how reliant on Arnautovic we became especially last season. We papered over the cracks really and we’re now seeing the result of it. He made many mistakes in terms of recruitment, through the team. Wimmer, Fletcher, Imbula, extending Johnson, Affelay and Ireland - at the time none of it made sense (Imbula excepted) - it all seem so haphazard. He’s the sort of a manger that can come in and improve a team that already has sound foundations, once it becomes his team his thinking is so muddled and confused you end up with the mess that is this season.
Although there will always remain a contingent of fans who believe he brought us the best times in our recent history, I remain firmly in he camp that believes he was a very average manager who actually convertered what was a really strong developing culture within the club into the absolute abortion of a ‘team’ that represents us today. Lack of backup h, to a degree yes, but also featuring more prominently, a lack of long term planning, poor recruitment, a failure to implement lessons learned and an overall poor leadership style. He will never and has never been, a good manager. It’s more than just Arnautovic.
|
|
|
Post by RAF on Mar 4, 2018 14:53:07 GMT
The fucking players have to take responsibility for their fitness as well though. It's part of their fucking job! That's why the feckless lazy shithouse was hardly ever used. H Possibly but the players would take their guidance fron the fitness coach and the manager. If nothing is said to the players then why would the players think themselves unfit? I can only assume that peak fitness of the players was not high on MH's agenda. Perhaps he preferred to concentrate on coaching football skills rather than running up hills? As a professional athlete you know if you are fit enough and being overweight is fucking unforgiveable. You don't need someone to tell you and you should have some personal pride. H
|
|
|
Post by biddulphchav on Mar 4, 2018 15:01:23 GMT
Possibly but the players would take their guidance fron the fitness coach and the manager. If nothing is said to the players then why would the players think themselves unfit? I can only assume that peak fitness of the players was not high on MH's agenda. Perhaps he preferred to concentrate on coaching football skills rather than running up hills? As a professional athlete you know if you are fit enough and being overweight is fucking unforgiveable. You don't need someone to tell you and you should have some personal pride. H I agree completely. Even as a amateur athlete you know, and it’s your pride on the line. The fact that you are a pro, the dine boggles at what players like Wimmer and Berahino think they are doing. So, where does the manager fit in? For me, it’s his job to ensure that certain minimum standards are met by all those under his management. That means making tough decisions for sure, but above all it means making sure his judgement, and his opinion are respected. If they are not, it means there is no place for you beneath him. This is the basic premise of management at any level. Hughes made so many basic mistakes it’s hard to imagine him succeeding at management no matter the industry or level.
|
|
|
Post by elystokie on Mar 4, 2018 15:02:49 GMT
We're in whale omelette territory with you. How about actual have some reasoning behind what you say for once? He may be paying heed to the old saying 'if you argue with idiots they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience'? I certainly intend to.
|
|
|
Post by chamberlain on Mar 4, 2018 15:15:49 GMT
Possibly but the players would take their guidance fron the fitness coach and the manager. If nothing is said to the players then why would the players think themselves unfit? I can only assume that peak fitness of the players was not high on MH's agenda. Perhaps he preferred to concentrate on coaching football skills rather than running up hills? As a professional athlete you know if you are fit enough and being overweight is fucking unforgiveable. You don't need someone to tell you and you should have some personal pride. H They don’t live in the real world though do they . I think if there is no one cracking the whip most of them would do fuck all
|
|
|
Post by rosco on Mar 4, 2018 15:19:14 GMT
At the time many commended the decision but I think losing Whelan and Walters (at the same time as Arnie) was a killer.
Both would be have started yesterday and although neither were silky "stars" they were the cogs in the Stoke wheel which we are badly missing now.
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Mar 4, 2018 15:22:14 GMT
At the time many commended the decision but I think losing Whelan and Walters (at the same time as Arnie) was a killer. Both would be have started yesterday and although neither were silky "stars" they were the cogs in the Stoke wheel which we are badly missing now. Lol.
|
|
|
Post by tuum on Mar 4, 2018 15:28:08 GMT
Possibly but the players would take their guidance fron the fitness coach and the manager. If nothing is said to the players then why would the players think themselves unfit? I can only assume that peak fitness of the players was not high on MH's agenda. Perhaps he preferred to concentrate on coaching football skills rather than running up hills? As a professional athlete you know if you are fit enough and being overweight is fucking unforgiveable. You don't need someone to tell you and you should have some personal pride. H I was talking generally about the squad. Specific individuals may know they're grossly unfit and, I agree, should do something about it. However, it is up to the manager to acknowledge this and clearly identify his expectations.The vast majority of the squad will be fit but maybe not at the same level of peak fitness as previous seasons,say, under TP. Different managers have different expectations. My current boss micromanages cost so I spend more time (unnecessary imo) producing budget reports that only he will look at. My last boss expected me to manage the interfaces at site more closely. As a result of my new boss I don't spend as much time on interface management as I used to. My new boss is happy...even though I think the project suffers a little as a result of his preferences. If you expect all the players in the squad to ask for extra fitness training over and above what the fitness coach and manager expect then I think you are being naive.
|
|
|
Post by hchpotter on Mar 4, 2018 15:30:05 GMT
Given what Hughes did to QPR his appointment was always a risky one. Having seen the pattern of big signings, big wages and long contracts I would expect our management to scrutinise all of his dealings very closely indeed. Hughes played a huge part in setting QPR’s progress back a good decade, aided by football-naive owners and dodgy agents.
The signing of Imbula, our most expensive ever, should have surely rung alarm bells. How much did we know about him? How long had we been aware of him? What was known about his character? What were the reasons for him falling out of love with Porto so quickly?
He chased Berahino for 18 months. The guy hadn’t scored in a year, was rumoured to be unfit despite the boot camp in France, publicly threatened to go on strike, was pictured in the papers on laughing gas, was suspended for drugs offences. And Mark Hughes chose to make him the most expensive striker in the history of the club, on big wages and a five and a half year contract. With all the attendant bad publicity were we not capable of negotiating on either the fee, the wage or the length of the contract? Not entirely down to Hughes of course, but whoever identified Saido Berahino as the answer to our goal scoring problems was misguided at best and a poor judge of character and footballing ability.
And Kevin Wimmer? In what world could the fee be justified? Football’s economics defy logic and belief but, even so, just why was Kevin Wimmer suddenly worth four times what Spurs paid for him, having barely played for the club? How many other clubs were pursuing him? What wages and length of contract were being offered to Wimmer?
And Bojan. After rehabilitating him following his long injury did we really need to offer him such a long contract? Would he have walked had we only offered two or three years? If so, who was so keen to offfer him improved terms?
There are too many unanswered questions about Hughes but he has done the same to us as he did to QPR, which was always my fear. Given the huge sums of money involved I hope the club are satisfied that every penny can be accounted for because I can see no footballing logic for any of the four contracts referred to above.
|
|
|
Post by RAF on Mar 4, 2018 16:35:09 GMT
As a professional athlete you know if you are fit enough and being overweight is fucking unforgiveable. You don't need someone to tell you and you should have some personal pride. H I was talking generally about the squad. Specific individuals may know they're grossly unfit and, I agree, should do something about it. However, it is up to the manager to acknowledge this and clearly identify his expectations.The vast majority of the squad will be fit but maybe not at the same level of peak fitness as previous seasons,say, under TP. Different managers have different expectations. My current boss micromanages cost so I spend more time (unnecessary imo) producing budget reports that only he will look at. My last boss expected me to manage the interfaces at site more closely. As a result of my new boss I don't spend as much time on interface management as I used to. My new boss is happy...even though I think the project suffers a little as a result of his preferences. If you expect all the players in the squad to ask for extra fitness training over and above what the fitness coach and manager expect then I think you are being naive. I don't expect any player to ask for extra fitness training as I believe ultimately they are responsible to ensure they are at a professional fitness level it's part of what should be expected in the nature of their work. H
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 4, 2018 16:38:42 GMT
I was talking generally about the squad. Specific individuals may know they're grossly unfit and, I agree, should do something about it. However, it is up to the manager to acknowledge this and clearly identify his expectations.The vast majority of the squad will be fit but maybe not at the same level of peak fitness as previous seasons,say, under TP. Different managers have different expectations. My current boss micromanages cost so I spend more time (unnecessary imo) producing budget reports that only he will look at. My last boss expected me to manage the interfaces at site more closely. As a result of my new boss I don't spend as much time on interface management as I used to. My new boss is happy...even though I think the project suffers a little as a result of his preferences. If you expect all the players in the squad to ask for extra fitness training over and above what the fitness coach and manager expect then I think you are being naive. I don't expect any player to ask for extra fitness training as I believe ultimately they are responsible to ensure they are at a professional fitness level it's part of what should be expected in the nature of their work. H I get what you're saying and do agree but surely such a systematic failure of fitness is down to that coaching regime?
|
|
|
Post by RAF on Mar 4, 2018 16:39:23 GMT
As a professional athlete you know if you are fit enough and being overweight is fucking unforgiveable. You don't need someone to tell you and you should have some personal pride. H They don’t live in the real world though do they . I think if there is no one cracking the whip most of them would do fuck all Didn't help Pulis at West Brom did it? H
|
|
|
Post by RAF on Mar 4, 2018 16:41:12 GMT
I don't expect any player to ask for extra fitness training as I believe ultimately they are responsible to ensure they are at a professional fitness level it's part of what should be expected in the nature of their work. H I get what you're saying and do agree but surely such a systematic failure of fitness is down to that coaching regime? As fans we have been let down by the coaches and the players. To 100% blame Hughes is fucking bollocks quite frankly and don't get me started on the board! H
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2018 16:42:49 GMT
We signed Choupo Moting 3 weeks before we signed Wimmer. I fail to see how the fact we replaced Arnie with a free transfer has anything to do with the Austrian.
|
|
|
Post by ParaPsych on Mar 4, 2018 16:42:54 GMT
I was talking generally about the squad. Specific individuals may know they're grossly unfit and, I agree, should do something about it. However, it is up to the manager to acknowledge this and clearly identify his expectations.The vast majority of the squad will be fit but maybe not at the same level of peak fitness as previous seasons,say, under TP. Different managers have different expectations. My current boss micromanages cost so I spend more time (unnecessary imo) producing budget reports that only he will look at. My last boss expected me to manage the interfaces at site more closely. As a result of my new boss I don't spend as much time on interface management as I used to. My new boss is happy...even though I think the project suffers a little as a result of his preferences. If you expect all the players in the squad to ask for extra fitness training over and above what the fitness coach and manager expect then I think you are being naive. I don't expect any player to ask for extra fitness training as I believe ultimately they are responsible to ensure they are at a professional fitness level it's part of what should be expected in the nature of their work. H I think that's a fair point but to be honest I just wouldn't leave it up to the players myself. Let's face it most of them are young rich fuckwits. We spend millions on these fuckers, we should hire them all a team of personal trainers or something and control their lives more closely. I'm betting the fitness regimes and diets the likes of our nation's top cyclists are on are far more controlled than what most football clubs can be arsed with.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 4, 2018 16:45:07 GMT
I get what you're saying and do agree but surely such a systematic failure of fitness is down to that coaching regime? As fans we have been let down by the coaches and the players. To 100% blame Hughes is fucking bollocks quite frankly and don't get me started on the board! H With fitness I think he's the main one to blame along with Roden. As it is such a systematic failure. Whereas like with Adam, it's on him, he's only ever been fit for about 3 months since he signed. But as you say the lot of them are a fuck up.
|
|
|
Post by RAF on Mar 4, 2018 16:46:13 GMT
I don't expect any player to ask for extra fitness training as I believe ultimately they are responsible to ensure they are at a professional fitness level it's part of what should be expected in the nature of their work. H I think that's a fair point but to be honest I just wouldn't leave it up to the players myself. Let's face it most of them are young rich fuckwits. We spend millions on these fuckers, we should hire them all a team of personal trainers or something and control their lives more closely. I'm betting the fitness regimes and diets the likes of our nation's top cyclists are on are far more controlled than what most football clubs can be arsed with. Absolutely, but if they refuse to take any responsibility about their fitness or lack of it then they have to share some of the blame for our shit performances. H
|
|
|
Post by chamberlain on Mar 4, 2018 17:12:09 GMT
They don’t live in the real world though do they . I think if there is no one cracking the whip most of them would do fuck all Didn't help Pulis at West Brom did it? H That wasn’t my point was it . Whereas your or I are or would be disciplined a lot of professional footballers need a boot up the backside to keep any sort of standards up .
|
|
|
Post by RAF on Mar 4, 2018 17:46:13 GMT
Didn't help Pulis at West Brom did it? H That wasn’t my point was it . Whereas your or I are or would be disciplined a lot of professional footballers need a boot up the backside to keep any sort of standards up . But Pulis did crack the whip and boot players up the backside but he did him no good at West Brom. My point still stands that they need to take responsibility and be professional and if they won't then they should be sacked like anyone else who was not doing their job properly in any job. H
|
|
|
Post by chamberlain on Mar 4, 2018 17:58:45 GMT
That wasn’t my point was it . Whereas your or I are or would be disciplined a lot of professional footballers need a boot up the backside to keep any sort of standards up . But Pulis did crack the whip and boot players up the backside but he did him no good at West Brom. My point still stands that they need to take responsibility and be professional and if they won't then they should be sacked like anyone else who was not doing their job properly in any job. H I haven’t got an obsession with Pulis , the second paragraph I agree with .
|
|
|
Post by RAF on Mar 4, 2018 18:17:00 GMT
But Pulis did crack the whip and boot players up the backside but he did him no good at West Brom. My point still stands that they need to take responsibility and be professional and if they won't then they should be sacked like anyone else who was not doing their job properly in any job. H I haven’t got an obsession with Pulis , the second paragraph I agree with . It's got nothing to do with an obsession with Pulis, it's just an example of someone who is reknowned for his robust fitness training methods who made as bad a job at West Brom as Hughes eventually did with us. Quite clearly having ultra fit players is only one part of the jigsaw to having a decent team and being a decent manager. H
|
|
|
Post by heworksardtho on Mar 4, 2018 18:28:09 GMT
West sham only on 30 points with the Worldbeater Arnie in the side
|
|
|
Post by thegift on Mar 4, 2018 18:49:42 GMT
West sham only on 30 points with the Worldbeater Arnie in the side 3 more points than we have got. With arnie in our side who would of taken that pen against brighton? Curious
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Mar 4, 2018 19:01:13 GMT
West sham only on 30 points with the Worldbeater Arnie in the side 3 more points than we have got. With arnie in our side who would of taken that pen against brighton? Curious The same player who blazed the one he took at Swansea last season pathetically over the bar? Stop digging.
|
|
|
Post by thegift on Mar 4, 2018 19:53:13 GMT
3 more points than we have got. With arnie in our side who would of taken that pen against brighton? Curious The same player who blazed the one he took at Swansea last season pathetically over the bar? Stop digging. Dave he didn't get a second bite and an open goal.
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Mar 4, 2018 21:00:51 GMT
The same player who blazed the one he took at Swansea last season pathetically over the bar? Stop digging. Dave he didn't get a second bite and an open goal. Yeah, that's what happens when you blaze a penalty over the bar.
|
|
|
Post by skip on Mar 4, 2018 21:26:18 GMT
I haven’t got an obsession with Pulis , the second paragraph I agree with . It's got nothing to do with an obsession with Pulis, it's just an example of someone who is reknowned for his robust fitness training methods who made as bad a job at West Brom as Hughes eventually did with us. Quite clearly having ultra fit players is only one part of the jigsaw to having a decent team and being a decent manager. H As Man City are proving in spades, there's a world of difference between getting players to run up slag heaps to sweat out last nights lager and proper sporting fitness nowadays. Most if nearly all clubs are in the dark ages.
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Mar 4, 2018 22:26:56 GMT
3 more points than we have got. With arnie in our side who would of taken that pen against brighton? Curious The same player who blazed the one he took at Swansea last season pathetically over the bar? Stop digging. I prefer the one who nailed the last minute penalty to win a game at Goodison....
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Mar 4, 2018 22:27:54 GMT
The same player who blazed the one he took at Swansea last season pathetically over the bar? Stop digging. I prefer the one who nailed the last minute penalty to win a game at Goodison.... Well with Arnie you get both.
|
|