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Post by Scrotnig on Feb 13, 2018 20:28:28 GMT
Strongest squad in the division? We get lamped by league two clubs at the moment. Down a second time is where we're going, just like Blunderland. We are quite possibly the weakest team out of the entire 92 at the moment. Would you put money on us beating any club in the four divisions right now? I certainly wouldn't. fuckin hell I've seen some doom and gloom on here but sheesh And yet, nobody's put forward any convincing argument that what I've said isn't true. As someone who lived through the awfulness of the holocaust season - this team is absolutely bloody terrible, and I would struggle to pick a single team out of the 92 that we could be reasonably certain of beating.
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Post by nigerianstokie on Feb 13, 2018 20:32:35 GMT
Admittedly we are bad. But Jesus wept that is some depressing shit! Weakest in the 92?!? Just stay away from any sharp objects for your own good. Who would you fancy us to beat then? Just think of our insipid performances against crap teams, and especially, crap teams from lower divisions in the cup. About 70 of the 92 easily.
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Post by Scrotnig on Feb 13, 2018 20:40:00 GMT
Who would you fancy us to beat then? Just think of our insipid performances against crap teams, and especially, crap teams from lower divisions in the cup. About 70 of the 92 easily. Coventry? Wolves when they were rubbish? We are terrible, and we should not underestimate how terrible we are. The management (by which I include more than just Hughes) have brought about the slow, agonising demise of my beloved club. What was a golden era has been squandered in a way that borders on criminal it is so bad. This cannot be how St Peter wanted to be remembered. He had it all, he was the Stoke City hero, he got us back in the top flight and kept us there....until he clearly decided it wasn't important any more and he let others wreck it. Perhaps he no longer cares.
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Post by theplantpotter on Feb 13, 2018 20:44:03 GMT
Probably end up buying Whelan and Walters back
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Post by theplantpotter on Feb 13, 2018 20:46:15 GMT
fuckin hell I've seen some doom and gloom on here but sheesh And yet, nobody's put forward any convincing argument that what I've said isn't true. As someone who lived through the awfulness of the holocaust season - this team is absolutely bloody terrible, and I would struggle to pick a single team out of the 92 that we could be reasonably certain of beating. Crewe with two players sent off
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Post by Scrotnig on Feb 13, 2018 20:53:57 GMT
And yet, nobody's put forward any convincing argument that what I've said isn't true. As someone who lived through the awfulness of the holocaust season - this team is absolutely bloody terrible, and I would struggle to pick a single team out of the 92 that we could be reasonably certain of beating. Crewe with two players sent off Ok, I'll give you that one. As long as Crwho? are definitely down to at least nine men. And one of them's the goalie.
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Post by shaqri on Feb 13, 2018 20:55:39 GMT
could have a total clearout start a fresh altogether lets see what happens come may
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 22:23:51 GMT
Jack Butland (sell) Lee Grant (retain) Jakob Haugaard (release) Kurt Zouma (return) Kevin Wimmer (sell if anybody's daft enough) Bruno Martins Indi (retain if possible) Ryan Shawcross (retain if possible) Erik Pieters (retain) Konstantinos Stafylidis (return) Glen Johnson (release) Moritz Bauer (retain if possible) Tom Edwards (retain) Geoff Cameron (sell) Joe Allen (sell) Badou Ndiaye (retain if possible) Charlie Adam (release) Darren Fletcher (give a free if he can find another club) Ibrahim Afellay (sell) Stephen Ireland (release) Eric Maxim Choupo-Moting (sell) Jesé (return) Ramadan Sobhi (retain) Xherdan Shaqiri (sell) Saido Berahino (sell if possible) Mame Diouf (sell) Peter Crouch (give a free transfer if he can find another club) Good list. My only Question - when you look at teams a year on from their drop, haven't they changed more radically than some have posted above? This list feels like the right number going. Would just think about the economics that we need to trim 40m off our 90m wage bill (as we head to the levels of Derby 26m and Leeds 18m over the parachute payment period - Villa are an anomaly and in trouble, if they don't make it up this year). It stops being about what players are worth and just the existential need to get rid! So I'd be potentially considering releasing a few to save £5m-£10m on each over the term of the rest of their contracts. While this sounds negative, it clears the slate for rebuilding more quickly - the deadwood, financial millstones and stench of past mistakes gone. Get 60m for Butland, Shaq and Allen - and get rid of Beharinho, Imbula, Wimmer (perhaps) and Fletcher. We might then we able to invest some back in a proven operators at this level; add a couple of starlets on loan and make up the squad with useful injury-free, non mentally-impaired, two-legged freebies. I'd also sell Sobhi reluctantly - he's good, but he's here at the wrong time and will be hacked to bits next year. So, I'm going radical - "Operation Bounce." 442 Grant Bauer ShawX Lees Pieters Adomah N Diaye Luongo ECM Diouf Gayle Subs: Edwards, Cameron, Campbell, Tymon, Gap1 (CM), Gap2 (GK), Crouch, Outs: Shaq (Roma, 20m), Butland (Livp 22m), Allen (Swansea 15m), Imbula (effectively free to Torino- fee used to sub his wage drop), Fletcher (retired/medical grounds), BMI (Nice, 7m), Adam (Rangers, eoc free), Wimmer (loan to Hamburg), Sobhi (Monaco, 10m+add ons), Beharinho (Celtic, loan to buy), Bojan (Celtic, 1m). TOTAL = £75m Ins: Dwight Gayle (8m), Lees (SW 4m), Loungo (QPR 6m), Adomah (Villa, 3m), Loanee 1=CM=Foden, Diaz, Winks, Loanee 2: Danny Ward. Any opportunistic and semi-useful freebies too: e.g. Yacob (WBA), Arfield (Burnley) - TOTAL = £20m www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/endendevertraege/wettbewerb/GB1/jahr/2018/plus/1/page/3Yes, i know its BS btw :-) You do realise you've over-thought this? A lot? 😉 We won't be 'forced' to sell anyone, will we? Butland and Shaqiri you'd expect would go, and tbh I'd want them to, if it meant £50m in the coffers. I think it would be interesting to see who would stay put. The concern, I suppose, is Transfer Requests. Once one of those goes in, you've lost the player anyway. I think that if we could keep the nucleus and spend wisely, we'd have a decent crack at the Play Offs at least. Imbula has the potential to absolutely tear up the Championship, but we all know it won't happen. Bojan. Difficult to say. Again, the potential to stand out.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 22:25:45 GMT
fuckin hell I've seen some doom and gloom on here but sheesh And yet, nobody's put forward any convincing argument that what I've said isn't true. As someone who lived through the awfulness of the holocaust season - this team is absolutely bloody terrible, and I would struggle to pick a single team out of the 92 that we could be reasonably certain of beating. Shirley, you're taking the piss??
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Post by tony1234 on Feb 13, 2018 22:38:24 GMT
Good list. My only Question - when you look at teams a year on from their drop, haven't they changed more radically than some have posted above? This list feels like the right number going. Would just think about the economics that we need to trim 40m off our 90m wage bill (as we head to the levels of Derby 26m and Leeds 18m over the parachute payment period - Villa are an anomaly and in trouble, if they don't make it up this year). It stops being about what players are worth and just the existential need to get rid! So I'd be potentially considering releasing a few to save £5m-£10m on each over the term of the rest of their contracts. While this sounds negative, it clears the slate for rebuilding more quickly - the deadwood, financial millstones and stench of past mistakes gone. Get 60m for Butland, Shaq and Allen - and get rid of Beharinho, Imbula, Wimmer (perhaps) and Fletcher. We might then we able to invest some back in a proven operators at this level; add a couple of starlets on loan and make up the squad with useful injury-free, non mentally-impaired, two-legged freebies. I'd also sell Sobhi reluctantly - he's good, but he's here at the wrong time and will be hacked to bits next year. So, I'm going radical - "Operation Bounce." 442 Grant Bauer ShawX Lees Pieters Adomah N Diaye Luongo ECM Diouf Gayle Subs: Edwards, Cameron, Campbell, Tymon, Gap1 (CM), Gap2 (GK), Crouch, Outs: Shaq (Roma, 20m), Butland (Livp 22m), Allen (Swansea 15m), Imbula (effectively free to Torino- fee used to sub his wage drop), Fletcher (retired/medical grounds), BMI (Nice, 7m), Adam (Rangers, eoc free), Wimmer (loan to Hamburg), Sobhi (Monaco, 10m+add ons), Beharinho (Celtic, loan to buy), Bojan (Celtic, 1m). TOTAL = £75m Ins: Dwight Gayle (8m), Lees (SW 4m), Loungo (QPR 6m), Adomah (Villa, 3m), Loanee 1=CM=Foden, Diaz, Winks, Loanee 2: Danny Ward. Any opportunistic and semi-useful freebies too: e.g. Yacob (WBA), Arfield (Burnley) - TOTAL = £20m www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/endendevertraege/wettbewerb/GB1/jahr/2018/plus/1/page/3Yes, i know its BS btw :-) You do realise you've over-thought this? A lot? 😉 We won't be 'forced' to sell anyone, will we? Butland and Shaqiri you'd expect would go, and tbh I'd want them to, if it meant £50m in the coffers. I think it would be interesting to see who would stay put. The concern, I suppose, is Transfer Requests. Once one of those goes in, you've lost the player anyway. I think that if we could keep the nucleus and spend wisely, we'd have a decent crack at the Play Offs at least. Imbula has the potential to absolutely tear up the Championship, but we all know it won't happen. Bojan. Difficult to say. Again, the potential to stand out. <iframe width="10.720000000000027" height="25.38000000000011" style="position: absolute; width: 10.72px; height: 25.38px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 0px; top: 0px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_32514628"></iframe> <iframe width="10.720000000000027" height="25.38000000000011" style="position: absolute; width: 10.72px; height: 25.38px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 485px; top: -1229px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_8929894"></iframe> <iframe width="10.720000000000027" height="25.38000000000011" style="position: absolute; width: 10.72px; height: 25.38px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 10px; top: -36px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_26866573"></iframe> <iframe width="10.720000000000027" height="25.38000000000011" style="position: absolute; width: 10.72px; height: 25.38px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 485px; top: -36px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_60016115"></iframe> of course I've over thought it. I'm a ruddy emotional wreck ATM😉 coping strategies are drink and become a keyboard warrior. Perspectives I guess. Personally see our nucleus as butland, Shawx, Allen and Shaq and ECM. Thanks for reminding me am going insane tho!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 22:40:44 GMT
You do realise you've over-thought this? A lot? 😉 We won't be 'forced' to sell anyone, will we? Butland and Shaqiri you'd expect would go, and tbh I'd want them to, if it meant £50m in the coffers. I think it would be interesting to see who would stay put. The concern, I suppose, is Transfer Requests. Once one of those goes in, you've lost the player anyway. I think that if we could keep the nucleus and spend wisely, we'd have a decent crack at the Play Offs at least. Imbula has the potential to absolutely tear up the Championship, but we all know it won't happen. Bojan. Difficult to say. Again, the potential to stand out. <iframe width="10.720000000000027" height="25.38000000000011" style="position: absolute; width: 10.72px; height: 25.38px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 0px; top: 0px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_32514628"></iframe> <iframe width="10.720000000000027" height="25.38000000000011" style="position: absolute; width: 10.72px; height: 25.38px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 485px; top: -1229px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_8929894"></iframe> <iframe width="10.720000000000027" height="25.38000000000011" style="position: absolute; width: 10.72px; height: 25.38px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 10px; top: -36px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_26866573"></iframe> <iframe width="10.720000000000027" height="25.38000000000011" style="position: absolute; width: 10.72px; height: 25.38px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 485px; top: -36px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_60016115"></iframe> of course I've over thought it. I'm a ruddy emotional wreck ATM😉 coping strategies are drink and become a keyboard warrior. Perspectives I guess. Personally see our nucleus as butland, Shawx, Allen and Shaq and ECM. Thanks for reminding me am going insane tho! Is insanity the 6th stage of grief? 😂
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 5:48:48 GMT
I think very very best we can hope for is: Grant Edwards Shawcross Indi Tymon Adam New CM New RM Bojan Ramadan New st/Berahino We're definitely losing: Butland, Shaq, Allen, Badou, Pieters, Cameron, Choupo, Bauer, Diouf. Likely add Wimmer, Fletcher, Crouch, Afellay, Bojan, Indi, Ramadan to that, but we might be able to persuade a couple of those to stay if we're lucky. I dont know why you're taking for granted that so many of our current squad is leaving. They may want to, we may want them to, but who would want to sign Wimmer, Fletcher, Afellay, Choupo, Pieters, Ireland, Imbula, Diouf for instance. Even Shaq and Bojan would appear to have very few takers, as there hasn't been real offers for them. Add to that that the players are on very good wages, possibly without reductions after relegation, and they are on lengthy contracts, some offering security as far as 2022. So while we would look to bring in new hungrier players, there might not be spaces and finances for them.
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Post by tony1234 on Feb 14, 2018 15:57:10 GMT
The last two years' history of teams relegated suggests that, if we are relegated, come this time next year, we will have 4 of the present first 11 and 5 of the present match-day 18 in our 18 man squad.
Last year's 3 relegated sides:- comparing their last match in the PL with their last Champ match.
Middlesbrough: 7 of the first 11 survived, 9 of the first 18 Sunderland: 4 of the first 11, 8 of the first 18 Hull: 2 of the first 11, 2 of the first 18
Seasons before that: comparing last league game in their relegation season vs first league game they played in the Feb after relegation in the Championship: Newcastle United: 3 of the first 11, 5 of the first 18 Norwich City: 5 and 8 Aston Villa: 2 and 3.
Just took an average of the first 11 survivors (=3.8) and the first 18 survivors (4.8).
History is an imperfect predictor of the future, but the best one we have.
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Post by jezzascfc on Feb 14, 2018 16:13:00 GMT
The last two years' history of teams relegated suggests that, if we are relegated, come this time next year, we will have 4 of the present first 11 and 5 of the present match-day 18 in our 18 man squad. Last year's 3 relegated sides:- comparing their last match in the PL with their last Champ match. Middlesbrough: 7 of the first 11 survived, 9 of the first 18 Sunderland: 4 of the first 11, 8 of the first 18 Hull: 2 of the first 11, 2 of the first 18 Seasons before that: comparing last league game in their relegation season vs first league game they played in the Feb after relegation in the Championship: Newcastle United: 3 of the first 11, 5 of the first 18 Norwich City: 5 and 8 Aston Villa: 2 and 3. Just took an average of the first 11 survivors (=3.8) and the first 18 survivors (4.8). History is an imperfect predictor of the future, but the best one we have. Interesting stat - as stats go! Quite a few on here seriously underestimate how few of our current squad we will have left come August if we go down. If we manage to have half of the current first team left starting the first game of next season, if it is in the Championship, (of last weekend's starters, I'd guess Shawcross, Pieters, Diouf, and maybe Badou/Bauer, depending on what deals they did), then this would be a fairly high percentage.
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Post by tony1234 on Feb 14, 2018 16:20:41 GMT
The last two years' history of teams relegated suggests that, if we are relegated, come this time next year, we will have 4 of the present first 11 and 5 of the present match-day 18 in our 18 man squad. Last year's 3 relegated sides:- comparing their last match in the PL with their last Champ match. Middlesbrough: 7 of the first 11 survived, 9 of the first 18 Sunderland: 4 of the first 11, 8 of the first 18 Hull: 2 of the first 11, 2 of the first 18 Seasons before that: comparing last league game in their relegation season vs first league game they played in the Feb after relegation in the Championship: Newcastle United: 3 of the first 11, 5 of the first 18 Norwich City: 5 and 8 Aston Villa: 2 and 3. Just took an average of the first 11 survivors (=3.8) and the first 18 survivors (4.8). History is an imperfect predictor of the future, but the best one we have. Interesting stat - as stats go! Quite a few on here seriously underestimate how few of our current squad we will have left come August if we go down. If we manage to have half of the current first team left starting the first game of next season, if it is in the Championship, (of last weekend's starters, I'd guess Shawcross, Pieters, Diouf, and maybe Badou/Bauer, depending on what deals they did), then this would be a fairly high percentage. A hard earned stat and 20 mins of life I'll never get back! Agree - people struggling to get their head round seeing a squad with an average wage bill that will decrease towards around 25m-30m - compared to the 90m now More about realities of Championship here, including wages, TV rev:- www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/staggering-wage-spending-power-debt-12877242(Its a couple of yrs old, so you could probably add a bit on = but shows the general picture)
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Post by jezzascfc on Feb 15, 2018 18:40:28 GMT
From a Guardian article on Hull:
"Yet with Hull receiving £47m in parachute payments this season and the last published accounts – covering 2016-17 – showing a £35m pre-tax profit, supporters wonder why more money has not been invested in the squad.
Instead of speculating to accumulate, the club signed 11 players for a total of £16m last summer while offloading 16 – most notably Harry Maguire to Leicester and Sam Clucas to Swansea – for more than £40m.
Ehab Allam, the vice-chairman, has offered an explanation of where the parachute payments have gone.
“We’re still paying instalments on transfer fees from last season,” he says. “And our player wage bill is almost £30m.”
He also claims much of the £35m profit was swallowed by the need to compensate for a £20m loss the previous year and that, with Hull being paid in instalments for Maguire and co, they are not as cash rich as they might appear."
The shape of things to come? #gulp
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